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a new D system


ruf
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what if we go to a 3/4 D

Buckner at DT and Dayo at DE with Grover at NT

this would allow Lenord and Payne to play OLB and go after the QB

 

we could cut some players that won't fit the system and hit FA

 

Okereke is good in overage and we may need a fa to be a real run stuffer  at the other ILB position. we also have Speed that can play inside

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3 minutes ago, ruf said:

what if we go to a 3/4 D

Buckner at DT and Dayo at DE with Grover at NT

this would allow Lenord and Payne to play OLB and go after the QB

 

we could cut some players that won't fit the system and hit FA

 

Okereke is good in overage and we may need a fa to be a real run stuffer  at the other ILB position. we also have Speed that can play inside

NO!!!!!!!!  and it won't happen. Irsay does not like it Ballard does not like it.  and I damn sure don't like it 

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Besides Ballard has already said the numbers are pretty low as far as teams that play in a dome on carpet making it anywhere with a 3-4. The dome teams that have made it far usually utilize the 4-3 and speed players to take advantage of the fast surface. I have to go back and find the quote but to summarize he wanted to stay on the right side of the stats and history 

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4-3 or 3-4, doesn't matter. At least not to me. 

 

Like Supe said, our base is really nickel (4-2-5). We likely play nickel in in a 3-4 too, so our look would mostly be 3-3-5 with one of the LBs blitzing... So not really a big change. We just see more variation in terms of where the blitzing LB comes from.

 

Biggest issue to me, is lack of blitz/stunt, and too much cushion. 

 

And while some say we're a cover 3 team, you shouldn't put to much stock in that.... We vary a ton (too much IMO), and we're only tops in the league % in quarters/qqh (prevnet)....

 

below is a blurb describing our scheme that I've posted a few times before...... Keep in mind this was coming into the season, so things may have slightly changed (although I don't think much).... If they pub a new version, I'll be sure to post and compare who we changed (if we did)... 

 

INDIANAPOLIS COLTS

2020 Defensive Pass Efficiency Rank: 13
2020 Defensive Rush Efficiency Rank: 11
2020 Base Coverage: Cover 3
2020 Third-Down Mentality: Sit back in quarters

 

Though they do base out of Cover 3, with 28% of their snaps coming in that coverage, defensive coordinator Matt Eberflus mixes his coverages a lot. He doesn’t rank in the top 15 in usage rate for any coverage except for quarter-quarter-half; he likes to sit in a one-gap four-down front style without blitzing, hoping to use those four linemen to get pressure.

That hasn’t worked well even with the addition of DeForest Buckner. The Colts' defensive linemen ranked just 23rd in pressure rate, and they finished 12th league-wide last season in EPA allowed per play.

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2 hours ago, ruf said:

what if we go to a 3/4 D

Buckner at DT and Dayo at DE with Grover at NT

this would allow Lenord and Payne to play OLB and go after the QB

 

we could cut some players that won't fit the system and hit FA

 

Okereke is good in overage and we may need a fa to be a real run stuffer  at the other ILB position. we also have Speed that can play inside

Leonard  and Okerke are to small to play in a 3 4 and so the D linemen.

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12 hours ago, Superman said:

We play nickel 60+% of the time, just like everyone else. Your base front isn't all that important. What's important is how do you cover, and how do you rush? And you can do both of those effectively in a variety of ways. 

 

Personnel, scheme, execution, all go hand in hand. Relabeling ourselves a 3-4 defense isn't going to fix anything if we're not good enough on a fundamental level. 

 

If you were a fan more than four years ago, you saw people asking to swap out the 3-4 for a 4-3. If you were a fan more than nine years ago, you saw people begging to swap out the 4-3 for a 3-4. This is all immaterial. Just need to get better players, coach better schemes, and execute better on game day. Doesn't matter what you call it. 

Well said, I think what people really want is less predictable coverage. Regardless of base package, which your rarely in.

 

Belicheick is great because of his multiplicity.

 

Even the bengals in the playoffs used coverages to confuse and they’ve played vanilla all year. 
 

predictability is death in the NFL! 

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13 hours ago, ruf said:

what if we go to a 3/4 D

Buckner at DT and Dayo at DE with Grover at NT

this would allow Lenord and Payne to play OLB and go after the QB

 

we could cut some players that won't fit the system and hit FA

 

Okereke is good in overage and we may need a fa to be a real run stuffer  at the other ILB position. we also have Speed that can play inside

For what feels like the 10000000th time it’s been said on this forum. A 3-4 Defense is extremely hard to find players for, particularly LBs and is extremely expensive. Your miss rate for on 3-4 type players is significantly more. 
 

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14 hours ago, ruf said:

what if we go to a 3/4 D

Buckner at DT and Dayo at DE with Grover at NT

this would allow Lenord and Payne to play OLB and go after the QB

 

we could cut some players that won't fit the system and hit FA

 

Okereke is good in overage and we may need a fa to be a real run stuffer  at the other ILB position. we also have Speed that can play inside

We would need a true Mike for this to work and another LBer for rotation. It would take two years to build but it is better for TE coverage and Let's Safteys and LBers trick QBs more with Blitzes...

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Just now, TimetobringDfence! said:

We would need a true Mike for this to work and another LBer for rotation. It would take two years to build but it is better for TE coverage and Let's Safteys and LBers trick QBs more with Blitzes...

 

14 hours ago, Superman said:

We play nickel 60+% of the time, just like everyone else. Your base front isn't all that important. What's important is how do you cover, and how do you rush? And you can do both of those effectively in a variety of ways. 

 

Personnel, scheme, execution, all go hand in hand. Relabeling ourselves a 3-4 defense isn't going to fix anything if we're not good enough on a fundamental level. 

 

If you were a fan more than four years ago, you saw people asking to swap out the 3-4 for a 4-3. If you were a fan more than nine years ago, you saw people begging to swap out the 4-3 for a 3-4. This is all immaterial. Just need to get better players, coach better schemes, and execute better on game day. Doesn't matter what you call it. 

Switching sets us back a season or two just to get the right players and execution. We need to have faith in the DL progressing. If Lewis is healthy, Muhammed keeps growing, and Paye and Buckner take a step foward we have a better DL than people think. Got to blitz a bit more...what out D really needs is a shutdown FS. I like Blackmon but he tackles better than he covers... he is an undersized SS. I want Marcus Williams or a Tyran Mathieu type via FA. FS is the QB of the secondary and is vital in a Cover 3/Tampa 2 style D we run...I wish we had kept Walker Jr. over signing Grover. That 8 mil on TY has to go else where...Okereke isn't a good Mike...he's a poor man's Leonard...

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28 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

 

Switching sets us back a season or two just to get the right players and execution. We need to have faith in the DL progressing. If Lewis is healthy, Muhammed keeps growing, and Paye and Buckner take a step foward we have a better DL than people think. Got to blitz a bit more...what out D really needs is a shutdown FS. I like Blackmon but he tackles better than he covers... he is an undersized SS. I want Marcus Williams or a Tyran Mathieu type via FA. FS is the QB of the secondary and is vital in a Cover 3/Tampa 2 style D we run...I wish we had kept Walker Jr. over signing Grover. That 8 mil on TY has to go else where...Okereke isn't a good Mike...he's a poor man's Leonard...

You use the words if and faith but those don't usually produce players in the NFL.

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15 hours ago, EastStreet said:

4-3 or 3-4, doesn't matter. At least not to me. 

 

Like Supe said, our base is really nickel (4-2-5). We likely play nickel in in a 3-4 too, so our look would mostly be 3-3-5 with one of the LBs blitzing... So not really a big change. We just see more variation in terms of where the blitzing LB comes from.

 

Biggest issue to me, is lack of blitz/stunt, and too much cushion. 

 

And while some say we're a cover 3 team, you shouldn't put to much stock in that.... We vary a ton (too much IMO), and we're only tops in the league % in quarters/qqh (prevnet)....

 

below is a blurb describing our scheme that I've posted a few times before...... Keep in mind this was coming into the season, so things may have slightly changed (although I don't think much).... If they pub a new version, I'll be sure to post and compare who we changed (if we did)... 

 

INDIANAPOLIS COLTS

2020 Defensive Pass Efficiency Rank: 13
2020 Defensive Rush Efficiency Rank: 11
2020 Base Coverage: Cover 3
2020 Third-Down Mentality: Sit back in quarters

 

Though they do base out of Cover 3, with 28% of their snaps coming in that coverage, defensive coordinator Matt Eberflus mixes his coverages a lot. He doesn’t rank in the top 15 in usage rate for any coverage except for quarter-quarter-half; he likes to sit in a one-gap four-down front style without blitzing, hoping to use those four linemen to get pressure.

That hasn’t worked well even with the addition of DeForest Buckner. The Colts' defensive linemen ranked just 23rd in pressure rate, and they finished 12th league-wide last season in EPA allowed per play.

We really were hurt with the loss of the two safeties this yr.     I think we have been and are moving toward more man coverage as well as getting out of cover 4 on third downs.    But we don't have those players yet.   We need at least one more safety and true man corner to pair with Rock and a true pass rush DE.    Then we may see more cover 1 or even cover zero a lot more 

I wish I could find the article where Ballard talked about building the same D as Seattle ran.  He said it will take some time to get the right payers, and with Luck retiring and the offensive line he was given to start with he hasn't been able to acquire the pieces yet.     

We started with Flus as a true cover 2 team but it is moving in the right direction.  Albeit not as fast as we would have hoped.  

 

All this is why I hope we use a lot of our resources toward the defense this yr  

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17 hours ago, ruf said:

what if we go to a 3/4 D

Buckner at DT and Dayo at DE with Grover at NT

this would allow Lenord and Payne to play OLB and go after the QB

 

we could cut some players that won't fit the system and hit FA

 

Okereke is good in overage and we may need a fa to be a real run stuffer  at the other ILB position. we also have Speed that can play inside

 

Leonard would be an ILB. He would not work as an OLB.

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Just now, shasta519 said:

 

Leonard would be an ILB. He would not work as an OLB.

even worse. Primary role would be to stop the run and that is not his best asset. He would be taking on guards and would get mauled. Traditionally ILB in a 3-4 are big and main role is to eat up the run

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2 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

even worse. Primary role would be to stop the run and that is not his best asset. He would be taking on guards and would get mauled. Traditionally ILB in a 3-4 are big and main role is to eat up the run

 

There's more than one variation of a 34 defense. 

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18 hours ago, RollerColt said:

The cover 3 as a system is fine. We just need improvement from the players to execute it correctly. 

We just need corners with more speed and can play tighter cover and better match zone

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22 hours ago, ruf said:

what if we go to a 3/4 D

Buckner at DT and Dayo at DE with Grover at NT

this would allow Lenord and Payne to play OLB and go after the QB

 

we could cut some players that won't fit the system and hit FA

 

Okereke is good in overage and we may need a fa to be a real run stuffer  at the other ILB position. we also have Speed that can play inside

Every linebacker we have becomes obsolete based on size. We would need more beef at dline.

 

Neither of those things are a quick fix.

 

But hey, if we want to do it and play for the number one pick in the draft we could do it......lol

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8 hours ago, ChuggaBeer said:

We really were hurt with the loss of the two safeties this yr.     I think we have been and are moving toward more man coverage as well as getting out of cover 4 on third downs.    But we don't have those players yet.   We need at least one more safety and true man corner to pair with Rock and a true pass rush DE.    Then we may see more cover 1 or even cover zero a lot more 

I wish I could find the article where Ballard talked about building the same D as Seattle ran.  He said it will take some time to get the right payers, and with Luck retiring and the offensive line he was given to start with he hasn't been able to acquire the pieces yet.     

We started with Flus as a true cover 2 team but it is moving in the right direction.  Albeit not as fast as we would have hoped.  

 

All this is why I hope we use a lot of our resources toward the defense this yr  

 

We had some C1 personnel when Ballard took over. We went away from that. 

So I just don't know what their strategy is to be honest. 

Seems like we're all over the place. 

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On 1/25/2022 at 6:17 PM, ruf said:

what if we go to a 3/4 D

Buckner at DT and Dayo at DE with Grover at NT

this would allow Lenord and Payne to play OLB and go after the QB

 

we could cut some players that won't fit the system and hit FA

 

Okereke is good in overage and we may need a fa to be a real run stuffer  at the other ILB position. we also have Speed that can play inside

It won't happen, but, if it did then we'd need 2-4 new OLB's, and quality depth behind all three of Dayo, Stewart and Buckner.

 

Not too mention we already need a couple new WR/TE's, possibly a new QB and a LT.

 

That is way too much to handle in one post season.....

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