Finding an Elite or franchise QB and the realities of that opportunity

[Nesjan3]

1 minute ago, BlackTiger said:

Your being ignorant doesnt make you right.  i told when it happened and to look it up, you can refuse but im still right 

Ok go ahead keep believing tanking happens in the NFL lol 

[BlackTiger]

Just now, Nesjan3 said:

Ok go ahead keep believing tanking happens in the NFL lol 

it did in that situation i mentioned, you were not paying attention 

[lollygagger8]

Wentz will be the QB for the upcoming season whether you, or I, like it or not. It doesn't make sense to try and mortgage the team's future (try to trade picks/players and eat the $15M dead money) for him not to be. 

 

1) Get Wentz working with Tom House all off season and fix his mechanics

2) Get him some real WR and TE 

3) Fix LT spot

4) Have Reich/Brady/QB coach work with him and watch the tape (and Kurt Warner's video)  

 

After that, if he sucks again this upcoming season, no excuses/lesson learned and he'll be gone. If he does better, then yay we aren't in QB purgatory for another year.  

[chad72]

8 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

Wentz will be the QB for the upcoming season whether you, or I, like it or not. It doesn't make sense to try and mortgage the team's future (try to trade picks/players and eat the $15M dead money) for him not to be. 

 

1) Get Wentz working with Tom House all off season and fix his mechanics

2) Get him some real WR and TE 

3) Fix LT spot

4) Have Reich/Brady/QB coach work with him and watch the tape (and Kurt Warner's video)  

 

After that, if he sucks again this upcoming season, no excuses/lesson learned and he'll be gone. If he does better, then yay we aren't in QB purgatory for another year.  

 

5) Add a solid backup QB like Mariota/Trubisky with starting experience should things go real south in the midst of the season.

 

Other than that, we are on the same page w.r.t 2022. 

[Four2itus]

57 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

Wentz will be the QB for the upcoming season whether you, or I, like it or not. It doesn't make sense to try and mortgage the team's future (try to trade picks/players and eat the $15M dead money) for him not to be. 

 

1) Get Wentz working with Tom House all off season and fix his mechanics

2) Get him some real WR and TE 

3) Fix LT spot

4) Have Reich/Brady/QB coach work with him and watch the tape (and Kurt Warner's video)  

 

After that, if he sucks again this upcoming season, no excuses/lesson learned and he'll be gone. If he does better, then yay we aren't in QB purgatory for another year.  

 

47 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

5) Add a solid backup QB like Mariota/Trubisky with starting experience should things go real south in the midst of the season.

 

Other than that, we are on the same page w.r.t 2022. 

"Holy reasonable....Batman!"

[Smash Mouth]

9 hours ago, tvturner said:

The 2023 class.

 

Trading a TON to move up and get Bryce Young or CJ Stroud

You want to guy the team for one of those guys? who are you going to trade? #56, #53, Kelly?  More draft picks?

[Nesjan3]

Explore trades for Wilson, Rogers, Watson. If they are remotely possible, then you do whatever it takes to get one of those guys in. Highly unlikely IMO, but Ballard will try I believe. If those 3 are not available, Wentz it is.

[Colt.45]

Sean Payton is leaving New Orleans. Things happen when you don't have a QB, strange things.

[DiogoSales]

5 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

Very valid points. That is what I think we will do. Seahawks did endure several years of a decent roster and QB purgatory from 2008-2011 till Russell Wilson came along in 2012. You keep building the roster and all the support that the QB needs so that when the right QB comes along, via draft or free agency, the pieces are in place for you to be a SB contender every year. 

 

It is a first for us, this QB purgatory following Peyton and Luck, but it not unlike what other teams have faced, we are just face to face with that reality that we may not be SB contenders as quickly as we thought we might be. The Colts, if they want to maximize the OL / JT window, they will have to act by 2023 at the latest to find their franchise QB. You don't get a hit if you don't swing, even if some of your swings end up as misses. Wentz is our latest swing. Unlike JB, Luck, JB, Rivers, Wentz, let us for once go with the same QB for a 2nd year in a row and see how it goes with improved talent around him, and a good backup QB plan. We will definitely have our answer for a future plan at the end of the 2022 season, IMO.

100%

 

Would Love to have Wilson falling in our laps, but it's not reality..

 

Let's get better, be more agressive in FA, address TE/DE properly and see what Wentz do (we will probably not like it), and 2023 we go all in on a QB, but I mean, really all in, 3 picks for a good one, just like 49ers and rams did.

[Myles]

2 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

Wentz will be the QB for the upcoming season whether you, or I, like it or not. It doesn't make sense to try and mortgage the team's future (try to trade picks/players and eat the $15M dead money) for him not to be. 

 

1) Get Wentz working with Tom House all off season and fix his mechanics

2) Get him some real WR and TE 

3) Fix LT spot

4) Have Reich/Brady/QB coach work with him and watch the tape (and Kurt Warner's video)  

 

After that, if he sucks again this upcoming season, no excuses/lesson learned and he'll be gone. If he does better, then yay we aren't in QB purgatory for another year.  

Don't leave Reich out of this.  I think both he and Wentz's heads should be on the chopping block if the Colts don't have good QB play in 2022.

Reich wanted Wentz.   Reich cannot do the play calling well.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, Myles said:

Don't leave Reich out of this.  I think both he and Wentz's heads should be on the chopping block if the Colts don't have good QB play in 2022.

Reich wanted Wentz.   Reich cannot do the play calling well.  

Reich could be having the same feeling of Irsay and Ballard on Wentz. They made the right decision in the offseason getting him. It’s ok to make mistakes if that is what Reich feels too. It’s how do they correct it and move forward with a upgrade.

[HungarianColtsFan]

Finding an elite QB is like finding gold:

'It's not were you're digging for it, it's there where you strike it!'

[Colt.45]

1 hour ago, Myles said:

Don't leave Reich out of this.  I think both he and Wentz's heads should be on the chopping block if the Colts don't have good QB play in 2022.

Reich wanted Wentz.   Reich cannot do the play calling well.  

 

The play calling stuff is nonsense. Who're the best play callers in the league? How've they done when hampered by talent? Shanahan? Payton? McVay? You need talent to look like a genius, that's the fact.

Now, he campaigned for Wentz and 100% he owns that. That's the nature of the business. However, lets be objective. Did he improve Wentz? 100%. Did he have many other options in that 2020 offseason? If you know them, please tell me what they were.

For me, i thought we should have hung around the draft and tried to get one of those FIVE QBs but Chris Ballard and Frank Reich thought otherwise, and if anything it's the GM who made the call that we wouldn't be able to secure one of those rookie QBs. 

 

I'd give Reich and Ballard a couple years.

[Stoney]

12 hours ago, tvturner said:

The 2023 class.

 

Trading a TON to move up and get Bryce Young or CJ Stroud

Neither are great prospects. Bryce is not only short.. but he's also very thin. Stroud might catch my eye some more next year if he can have some success in the CFP.

[jszfunk]

9 hours ago, coltsva said:

Until you find your long term QB, you try every year to get him. You can't take this year off by saying "we'll give Carson one more year." You can give him one more year, but you must bring in your next option now, and not wait another year to see if Carson works out. It doesn't mean you mortgage your future every year, but it does mean you keep trying. 

 

I didn't like the move for Wentz at the time and still don't, but it did show Ballard was trying for a long term solution. If they stick with Wentz for another season, I'm in the camp that says bring in Trubisky. He's in a similar situation where he didn't work out with his first team (funny that a guy with a 29-21 record is a "bust"), he's still young, and he has talent. 

 

I see your points, and some  good ones. 

I think at this point at any QB's career  and for the amount of time that Wentz and Trubisky  has been in the league they are going to be who they are going to be.  They have had enough time to develop  and  maximize their talents.  I really don't see any great turnaround for either one of those guys. Has that ever really happened? A QB struggles and has up's and downs for a few years with a franchise gets let go and has a turnaround to lead a team? I am sure there have been a few who maybe had some success , but to be a REAL game changer?  You can tell within the first year or 2 if you are going to have a franchise QB. Manning and Luck. They had some tough spots but showed they're potential and the rest is history.

[Four2itus]

11 minutes ago, jszfunk said:

 

I see your points, and some  good ones. 

I think at this point at any QB's career  and for the amount of time that Wentz and Trubisky  has been in the league they are going to be who they are going to be.  They have had enough time to develop  and  maximize their talents.  I really don't see any great turnaround for either one of those guys. Has that ever really happened? A QB struggles and has up's and downs for a few years with a franchise gets let go and has a turnaround to lead a team? I am sure there have been a few who maybe had some success , but to be a REAL game changer?  You can tell within the first year or 2 if you are going to have a franchise QB. Manning and Luck. They had some tough spots but showed they're potential and the rest is history.

Absolutely true.....but....if the opportunity isn't there, and might not be there in the near future...then the option is to build the team around a game manager who can efficiently execute the offense. Wentz could become that guy, but you are correct, the odds are not on his side. It's really about what can be realistically in the current time frame. 

[jszfunk]

26 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

Absolutely true.....but....if the opportunity isn't there, and might not be there in the near future...then the option is to build the team around a game manager who can efficiently execute the offense. Wentz could become that guy, but you are correct, the odds are not on his side. It's really about what can be realistically in the current time frame. 

Well put , I agree. At this point Wentz is the best available option.  I don't dislike the guy ,he is a decent QB but he is who he is.

[Myles]

16 hours ago, Colt.45 said:

 

The play calling stuff is nonsense.

It's not nonsense.   Reich has proved to be poor at it his entire career.   He cost us multiple games this year alone.   Wentz has too.  

[TimetobringDfence!]

On 1/24/2022 at 11:34 PM, Four2itus said:

I read every thread that is started on this Colts board. Can't say that I read all the posts, because my ignore list is almost at the bottom of page 2. However, I have gathered enough opinions here on this subject...to know that there is some truth, a lot of assumption, and a lot of groaning. 

 

Let's try to discuss how the Colts got to this point, what their options truly were (foresight then...not hindsight now), and lastly, what they can do to one day have a franchise QB again. 

 

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb

 

At this point I must admit that I have been backing Wentz from the get go. I still do....but I can better see his shortcomings now. I still think there is a chance he can be a good to great QB in this league. I do not know if that will happen, but another year to find out is both what I think will happen, and it is what I hope will happen based on contract/time frame/availability/continuity. 

 

Andrew Luck retired in August of 2019. Since that event, GM Chris Ballard has had 2 drafts. Let me repeat that again.....2 drafts. So, the Colts are sitting now with a QB that a 1st and a 3rd round pick were traded in compensation. They fell short of making the playoffs this season, a game short of their first round playoff exit the previous season. 

 

The Colts traded their 1st round slot #13, to the 9'ers to acquire Defo. To be realistic, Joe Burrow was simply not available for the Colts to move up and get at the number 1 slot. Why, because the Bengals would not have lost their opportunity to do the very thing this board is salivating at....get their guy. And for that matter, we don't know that Ballard didn't try. That leaves Herbert. What would the Colts have had to throw in to entice a team just as needy of their "franchise" QB as the Colts were, to trade out of the #6 slot? Our second at #34 (Pittman?), or our #41 (Taylor?) Both? Tua was taken just before Herbert what if he was chosen? Remember, see the underlined bolded above. So, with at least a dozen other teams all trying to do what some are proposing the Colts should have done.....and one realistic possibility......is a fail? Tough crowd.  

 

Let's move on. Instead of doing the above scenario, Ballard went to work at the top portion of the draft netting two offensive players. Pittman, at a damned near unanimous opinion position of need, has developed nicely. He will play for this team a long time. Taylor is a damned star. By getting Rivers, the team got a vet to take a shot at the playoffs, blend the team together, and get a better picture of the next seasons options. In the 2021 draft, once again, the top 3 spots in the draft were filled by QB's. Trevor Lawrence, Zack Wilson, and Trey Lance. The only one in the playoffs is riding the pine. Do we know that any of them are going to be all that? How many 1st would it have taken to move up from the #21 slot to acquire one of those? Three.....four? Probably at least 3 and our second rounder this year and next. That means zero pass rush acquired at the top end of the draft. Was that a failure?

 

The trade for Wentz has not worked out as of yet. And it might not. But considering the options, and Ballard's respect and belief in Frank, he went with Wentz. What would it have taken to get someone better? 3 first's? More? Just to add.....if anyone thinks it has been uncomfortable in here with how the season ended, it doesn't hold a candle to what this place would be like with 3-4 first's being lost in a failed QB attempt. Not...even...close. 

 

Everyone is entitled to give their opinion. And we can all point fingers until we're blue in the face. But the reality is, our QB retired earlier than expected, and this GM has done pretty damned well with how the events have unfolded. 

 

32 teams, about a dozen legit QB's that are playing at a level to be THAT guy. That means, the Colts are eating out of the same dish that at least a dozen other hungry mouths are looking for dinner from. Wouldn't just a tad more patience be prudent?

 

So how does the team realistically get that guy in the near future? We've heard all the names thrown around, but how does that realistically get done? Please, can we not go to the tanking suggestion? 

Patience is important, it's not easy and we are spoiled...but I don't like us spending top dollar for hope either...Instead of trading draft capital and spending big on average QBs build the roster up and play young QBs that sink or swim then draft til you hit...I rather cut Carson and save 13mil to get more FA help else where and send Ehlinger out. So what if he wins 5 to 6 games. Then we can draft a 1st round QB and a 5th or 6th round QB to compete for the job... Build the team up and draft your own...another bonus to this strategy is elite QBs see you have a great D or good team they are more willing to sign via FA. Brady to TB is a great example. Stafford to LA. Forget wasting money and capital on hope. Make the team good and a QB will come or you will draft one eventually...

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

35 minutes ago, Myles said:

It's not nonsense.   Reich has proved to be poor at it his entire career.   He cost us multiple games this year alone.   Wentz has too.  

Last year with rivers we were one of the top teams in explosive plays. This year from week 4-14 we were the number one scoring team in the league. Tell me again how Reich is a bad play caller. Reich’s has had 4 QB in four years. I think it’s hard to get consistency but think he has done a pretty damn good job considering that.

[TimetobringDfence!]

22 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Last year with rivers we were one of the top teams in explosive plays. This year from week 4-14 we were the number one scoring team in the league. Tell me again how Reich is a bad play caller. Reich’s has had 4 QB in four years. I think it’s hard to get consistency but think he has done a pretty damn good job considering that.

Or we hit a soft spot in our schedule and he finally started giving JT the ball. If Frank was a QB guru he would atleast be getting Wentz to adapt his flaws a little, but that isn't happening. 6 years in and making dumb nonvet decisions...

[Myles]

14 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Last year with rivers we were one of the top teams in explosive plays. This year from week 4-14 we were the number one scoring team in the league. Tell me again how Reich is a bad play caller. Reich’s has had 4 QB in four years. I think it’s hard to get consistency but think he has done a pretty damn good job considering that.

Hmmm.   26 passes in a row - Loss

16 Rush attempts for Taylor in 2 games.   -  2 losses.

Multiple bad 4th down tries

Multiple Hines up the gut for nothings

Fired for bad play calling by the Chargers.

Successful in Philly - Did not call the plays

Admitting he didn't realize the play/pass ratio was so wide - Because he cannot handle coaching and play calling at the same time.  

 

 

[jshipp23]

Daniel Jones may be available...Don't be surprised if he is a Colt next year..That is my hope at this point...I still think he has major upside if he gets in a better situation..

[Mitch Connors]

On 1/25/2022 at 6:22 AM, AwesomeAustin said:

I think we have a very capable QB that needs time, weapons and 4th quarter defense. We have made our move and it’s not over yet.  Keep with the plan and bring this squad back with upgrades at game changing positions. 

100% agree. Plus its a heck of a lot cheaper to go get a top flight WR in free agency or trade than it is to get an improved QB over Wentz. Give him the tools to succeed and if he fails at least we'll know its because hes not good enough as opposed to not having viable passing options. 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 hours ago, jshipp23 said:

Daniel Jones may be available...Don't be surprised if he is a Colt next year..That is my hope at this point...I still think he has major upside if he gets in a better situation..

 

[Four2itus]

3 hours ago, jshipp23 said:

Daniel Jones may be available...Don't be surprised if he is a Colt next year..That is my hope at this point...I still think he has major upside if he gets in a better situation..

Wentz may not be the answer, but I really don't think Jones is the answer. 

[coltsva]

2 hours ago, Four2itus said:

Wentz may not be the answer, but I really don't think Jones is the answer. 

I'm not sure he's even the answer to the question: Who is the best QB named Jones? 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

This is funny. Glad denver fans think the same way I do.

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

13 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

This is funny. Glad denver fans think the same way I do.

 

 

Might be one of the dumber tweets I’ve read here in quite some time.    Oh, he’s just a fan.    
 

About as ignorant as it comes.    
 

Dear God….    

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Might be one of the dumber tweets I’ve read here in quite some time.    Oh, he’s just a fan.    
 

About as ignorant as it comes.    
 

Dear God….    

Nah. I don’t even think we would get 3 years out of him. For teams trying to break the hamster wheel at QB it’s something that has to be said. The consequences have to be talked about and what would happen if he only did play a year.

[Les Poulains]

7 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Might be one of the dumber tweets I’ve read here in quite some time.    

Agreed, it's absolute madness. I'm sure the Bucs would trade their Super Bowl last season because "who knows what Brady will do in 2 or 3 years"? They might be back on the carousel! Oh no, dear God!

 

Sports fans can be so stupid.

[NewColtsFan]

2 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Nah. I don’t even think we would get 3 years out of him. For teams trying to break the hamster wheel at QB it’s something that has to be said. The consequences have to be talked about and what would happen if he only did play a year.

Sure, the consequences have to be talked about.     And he has.   He’s decided.  And he’s voting two thumbs way down, EVEN IF DENVER WOULD WIN A SUPER BOWL!!

 

I repeat.   About as dumb as it gets.  

[Les Poulains]

23 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Nah. I don’t even think we would get 3 years out of him. For teams trying to break the hamster wheel at QB it’s something that has to be said. The consequences have to be talked about and what would happen if he only did play a year.

But what are the consequences of having someone of the calibre of Rodgers, in comparison with staying with someone of Wentz' calibre?

 

Because of course in isolation, getting Rodgers would involve some risk, but it's not like you have a huge shot at winning anything if you stay with someone like Wentz.

 

The current QB situation being not good enough anyway takes away most of the risk. The point is about getting a guy you can win with, who cares how long it may or may not last.

 

Not that we have a real shot at getting Rodgers, like, this is just hypothetical.

[Btown_Colt]

44 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Nah. I don’t even think we would get 3 years out of him. For teams trying to break the hamster wheel at QB it’s something that has to be said. The consequences have to be talked about and what would happen if he only did play a year.

So you’d rather go 3 years, no Super Bowl, and still possibly not have a qb?

[Four2itus]

In my thread start....I asked for realistic options.

 

Please consider that it's really easy to just say....go get that guy. But that ignores the reality that the picks given up remove the opportunity to draft players to fill other needed positions.

 

Where is the future left tackle coming from?

Where is the TE the Colts need coming from?

Where is that CB the Colts need coming from?

Where is that S we desperately need coming from?

Where is the other WR coming from?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

5 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

In my thread start....I asked for realistic options.

 

Please consider that it's really easy to just say....go get that guy. But that ignores the reality that the picks given up remove the opportunity to draft players to fill other needed positions.

 

Where is the future left tackle coming from?

Where is the TE the Colts need coming from?

Where is that CB the Colts need coming from?

Where is that S we desperately need coming from?

Where is the other WR coming from?

More importantly also it removes the opportunity to draft a successor to sit behind him so the cycle starts back up again. They can fill some of those in FA.

[IinD]

Odds are your team will be in the QB carousel every few years anyway unless you get a blue chip guy (Peyton type).

 

Rarely do guys do it like Peyton /Eli going a decade plus without getting hurt also.

 

I remember everyone saying we have Luck for a decade plus so we're good... Nope .. Lol

 

Keep improving the team and don't get another QB just to get one.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Four2itus said:

In my thread start....I asked for realistic options.

 

Please consider that it's really easy to just say....go get that guy. But that ignores the reality that the picks given up remove the opportunity to draft players to fill other needed positions.

 

Where is the future left tackle coming from?

Where is the TE the Colts need coming from?

Where is that CB the Colts need coming from?

Where is that S we desperately need coming from?

Where is the other WR coming from?

I think the 2022 LT comes from FA.

I think the 2022 TE comes from the draft. 
I think the 2022 CB Comes from both the draft AND FA. 
I think the 2022 S Comes from either the draft OR free agency. 

I think the 2022 WR comes from the draft AND free agency.   
I think a 2022 DE comes from FA,  other than Lewis and Turay, who I think one or both will be back. 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

15 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I think the 2022 LT comes from FA.

I think the 2022 TE comes from the draft. 
I think the 2022 CB Comes from both the draft AND FA. 
I think the 2022 S Comes from either the draft OR free agency. 

I think the 2022 WR comes from the draft AND free agency.   
I think a 2022 DE comes from FA,  other than Lewis and Turay, who I think one or both will be back. 

 

I think this is probably correct. 

[Four2itus]

17 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I think the 2022 LT comes from FA.

I think the 2022 TE comes from the draft. 
I think the 2022 CB Comes from both the draft AND FA. 
I think the 2022 S Comes from either the draft OR free agency. 

I think the 2022 WR comes from the draft AND free agency.   
I think a 2022 DE comes from FA,  other than Lewis and Turay, who I think one or both will be back. 

 

Which was my point......if we give up those high picks to get "That guy", those suggestions of "draft" change.