Finding an Elite or franchise QB and the realities of that opportunity

[Four2itus]

I read every thread that is started on this Colts board. Can't say that I read all the posts, because my ignore list is almost at the bottom of page 2. However, I have gathered enough opinions here on this subject...to know that there is some truth, a lot of assumption, and a lot of groaning. 

 

Let's try to discuss how the Colts got to this point, what their options truly were (foresight then...not hindsight now), and lastly, what they can do to one day have a franchise QB again. 

 

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb

 

At this point I must admit that I have been backing Wentz from the get go. I still do....but I can better see his shortcomings now. I still think there is a chance he can be a good to great QB in this league. I do not know if that will happen, but another year to find out is both what I think will happen, and it is what I hope will happen based on contract/time frame/availability/continuity. 

 

Andrew Luck retired in August of 2019. Since that event, GM Chris Ballard has had 2 drafts. Let me repeat that again.....2 drafts. So, the Colts are sitting now with a QB that a 1st and a 3rd round pick were traded in compensation. They fell short of making the playoffs this season, a game short of their first round playoff exit the previous season. 

 

The Colts traded their 1st round slot #13, to the 9'ers to acquire Defo. To be realistic, Joe Burrow was simply not available for the Colts to move up and get at the number 1 slot. Why, because the Bengals would not have lost their opportunity to do the very thing this board is salivating at....get their guy. And for that matter, we don't know that Ballard didn't try. That leaves Herbert. What would the Colts have had to throw in to entice a team just as needy of their "franchise" QB as the Colts were, to trade out of the #6 slot? Our second at #34 (Pittman?), or our #41 (Taylor?) Both? Tua was taken just before Herbert what if he was chosen? Remember, see the underlined bolded above. So, with at least a dozen other teams all trying to do what some are proposing the Colts should have done.....and one realistic possibility......is a fail? Tough crowd.  

 

Let's move on. Instead of doing the above scenario, Ballard went to work at the top portion of the draft netting two offensive players. Pittman, at a damned near unanimous opinion position of need, has developed nicely. He will play for this team a long time. Taylor is a damned star. By getting Rivers, the team got a vet to take a shot at the playoffs, blend the team together, and get a better picture of the next seasons options. In the 2021 draft, once again, the top 3 spots in the draft were filled by QB's. Trevor Lawrence, Zack Wilson, and Trey Lance. The only one in the playoffs is riding the pine. Do we know that any of them are going to be all that? How many 1st would it have taken to move up from the #21 slot to acquire one of those? Three.....four? Probably at least 3 and our second rounder this year and next. That means zero pass rush acquired at the top end of the draft. Was that a failure?

 

The trade for Wentz has not worked out as of yet. And it might not. But considering the options, and Ballard's respect and belief in Frank, he went with Wentz. What would it have taken to get someone better? 3 first's? More? Just to add.....if anyone thinks it has been uncomfortable in here with how the season ended, it doesn't hold a candle to what this place would be like with 3-4 first's being lost in a failed QB attempt. Not...even...close. 

 

Everyone is entitled to give their opinion. And we can all point fingers until we're blue in the face. But the reality is, our QB retired earlier than expected, and this GM has done pretty damned well with how the events have unfolded. 

 

32 teams, about a dozen legit QB's that are playing at a level to be THAT guy. That means, the Colts are eating out of the same dish that at least a dozen other hungry mouths are looking for dinner from. Wouldn't just a tad more patience be prudent?

 

So how does the team realistically get that guy in the near future? We've heard all the names thrown around, but how does that realistically get done? Please, can we not go to the tanking suggestion? 

[Maniac53]

12 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

I read every thread that is started on this Colts board. Can't say that I read all the posts, because my ignore list is almost at the bottom of page 2. However, I have gathered enough opinions here on this subject...to know that there is some truth, a lot of assumption, and a lot of groaning. 

 

Let's try to discuss how the Colts got to this point, what their options truly were (foresight then...not hindsight now), and lastly, what they can do to one day have a franchise QB again. 

 

At this point I must admit that I have been backing Wentz from the get go. I still do....but I can better see his shortcomings now. I still think there is a chance he can be a good to great QB in this league. I do not know if that will happen, but another year to find out is both what I think will happen, and it is what I hope will happen based on contract/time frame/availability/continuity. 

 

Andrew Luck retired in August of 2019. Since that event, GM Chris Ballard has had 2 drafts. Let me repeat that again.....2 drafts. So, the Colts are sitting now with a QB that a 1st and a 3rd round pick were traded in compensation. They fell short of making the playoffs this season, a game short of their first round playoff exit the previous season. 

 

The Colts traded their 1st round slot #13, to the 9'ers to acquire Defo. To be realistic, Joe Burrow was simply not available for the Colts to move up and get at the number 1 slot. Why, because the Bengals would not have lost their opportunity to do the very thing this board is salivating at....get their guy. And for that matter, we don't know that Ballard didn't try. That leaves Herbert. What would the Colts have had to throw in to entice a team just as needy of their "franchise" QB as the Colts were, to trade out of the #6 slot? Our second at #34 (Pittman?), or our #41 (Taylor?) Both? Tua was taken just before Herbert what if he was chosen? Remember, see the underlined bolded above. So, with at least a dozen other teams all trying to do what some are proposing the Colts should have done.....and one realistic possibility......is a fail? Tough crowd.  

 

Let's move on. Instead of doing the above scenario, Ballard went to work at the top portion of the draft netting two offensive players. Pittman, at a damned near unanimous opinion position of need, has developed nicely. He will play for this team a long time. Taylor is a damned star. By getting Rivers, the team got a vet to take a shot at the playoffs, blend the team together, and get a better picture of the next seasons options. In the 2021 draft, once again, the top 3 spots in the draft were filled by QB's. Trevor Lawrence, Zack Wilson, and Trey Lance. The only one in the playoffs is riding the pine. Do we know that any of them are going to be all that? How many 1st would it have taken to move up from the #21 slot to acquire one of those? Three.....four? Probably at least 3 and our second rounder this year and next. That means zero pass rush acquired at the top end of the draft. Was that a failure?

 

The trade for Wentz has not worked out as of yet. And it might not. But considering the options, and Ballard's respect and belief in Frank, he went with Wentz. What would it have taken to get someone better? # first? More? Just to add.....if anyone thinks it has been uncomfortable in here with how the season ended, it doesn;t hold a candle to what this place would be like with 3-4 first being lost an a failed QB attempt. Not...even...close. 

 

Everyone is entitled to give their opinion. And we can all point fingers until we're blue in the face. But the reality is, our QB retired earlier than expected, and this GM has done pretty damned well with how the events have unfolded. 

 

32 teams, about a dozen legit QB's that are playing at a level to be THAT guy. That means, the Colts are eating out of the same dish that at least a dozen other hungry mouths are looking for dinner from. Wouldn't just a tad more patience be prudent?

 

So how does the team realistically get that guy in the hear future? We've heard all the names thrown around, but how does that realistically get done?

I can't even like or anything cause I'm a rookie and only have so many likes and posts a day evidently. But love this post and thank you for it!!

[NFLfan]

1 hour ago, Maniac53 said:

I can't even like or anything cause I'm a rookie and only have so many likes and posts a day evidently. But love this post and thank you for it!!

 

You can always come back later and like the post. 

 

Welcome to the forum. 

[tvturner]

4 hours ago, Four2itus said:

So how does the team realistically get that guy in the near future? We've heard all the names thrown around, but how does that realistically get done? Please, can we not go to the tanking suggestion? 

The 2023 class.

 

Trading a TON to move up and get Bryce Young or CJ Stroud

[stitches]

5 hours ago, Four2itus said:

I read every thread that is started on this Colts board. Can't say that I read all the posts, because my ignore list is almost at the bottom of page 2. However, I have gathered enough opinions here on this subject...to know that there is some truth, a lot of assumption, and a lot of groaning. 

 

Let's try to discuss how the Colts got to this point, what their options truly were (foresight then...not hindsight now), and lastly, what they can do to one day have a franchise QB again. 

 

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb

 

At this point I must admit that I have been backing Wentz from the get go. I still do....but I can better see his shortcomings now. I still think there is a chance he can be a good to great QB in this league. I do not know if that will happen, but another year to find out is both what I think will happen, and it is what I hope will happen based on contract/time frame/availability/continuity. 

 

Andrew Luck retired in August of 2019. Since that event, GM Chris Ballard has had 2 drafts. Let me repeat that again.....2 drafts. So, the Colts are sitting now with a QB that a 1st and a 3rd round pick were traded in compensation. They fell short of making the playoffs this season, a game short of their first round playoff exit the previous season. 

Luck's retirement really screwed us up. And I'm willing to give some leeway and some time to the GM to find the new guy, but AT SOME POINT he has to actually do it. And IMO Ballard made his first big bet with Wentz. If you listen to his press-conference from a few weeks ago, I don't think he likes his bet right now... "at the time" he did though... 

 

5 hours ago, Four2itus said:

The Colts traded their 1st round slot #13, to the 9'ers to acquire Defo. To be realistic, Joe Burrow was simply not available for the Colts to move up and get at the number 1 slot. Why, because the Bengals would not have lost their opportunity to do the very thing this board is salivating at....get their guy. And for that matter, we don't know that Ballard didn't try. That leaves Herbert. What would the Colts have had to throw in to entice a team just as needy of their "franchise" QB as the Colts were, to trade out of the #6 slot? Our second at #34 (Pittman?), or our #41 (Taylor?) Both? Tua was taken just before Herbert what if he was chosen? Remember, see the underlined bolded above. So, with at least a dozen other teams all trying to do what some are proposing the Colts should have done.....and one realistic possibility......is a fail? Tough crowd.  

It doesn't matter. None of the Taylors, Pittmans of the world matter when the alternative is a franchise QB. You get the QB first, then you worry about RBs... or any position really. At the time I wanted us to go get Herbert or Love. Love is still a questionmark and very well might not pan out. Herbert has been great and projects to be one of the best QBs in the league going forward. 

 

5 hours ago, Four2itus said:

Let's move on. Instead of doing the above scenario, Ballard went to work at the top portion of the draft netting two offensive players. Pittman, at a damned near unanimous opinion position of need, has developed nicely. He will play for this team a long time. Taylor is a damned star. By getting Rivers, the team got a vet to take a shot at the playoffs, blend the team together, and get a better picture of the next seasons options. In the 2021 draft, once again, the top 3 spots in the draft were filled by QB's. Trevor Lawrence, Zack Wilson, and Trey Lance. The only one in the playoffs is riding the pine. Do we know that any of them are going to be all that? How many 1st would it have taken to move up from the #21 slot to acquire one of those? Three.....four? Probably at least 3 and our second rounder this year and next. That means zero pass rush acquired at the top end of the draft. Was that a failure?

I loved pretty much all of them. I thought this was a clearcut chance for us to get a good prospect... if we really wanted to do it. Do we know with certainty that any of them will be good? No. But you will never get certainty with prospect projections... especially when you are drafting in the teens and teams will never trade out of Trevor Lawrences of the world. You will need to take a chance on someone and develop him. None of the QBs we realistically will continue to have a chance at will be perfect prospects. Mahomes, Watson, Allen, Lamar, Herbert... none of them were perfect prospects. But their teams identified them and targetted them in the draft.  

 

And again - in the grand scheme of things... it doesn't matter that you won't have Paye and Dayo. Arguably it doesn't matter right now that you have them when you are putting Carson Wentz on the field. No price is too high to pay for a franchise QB...  

 

5 hours ago, Four2itus said:

 

The trade for Wentz has not worked out as of yet. And it might not. But considering the options, and Ballard's respect and belief in Frank, he went with Wentz. What would it have taken to get someone better? 3 first's? More? Just to add.....if anyone thinks it has been uncomfortable in here with how the season ended, it doesn't hold a candle to what this place would be like with 3-4 first's being lost in a failed QB attempt. Not...even...close. 

At the time I thought Wentz was a solid flyer to take at a QB with talent who needs rehabilitation and rebuild. I didn't see him as a QB who warrants that type of assets being put into him, though. And I said so at the time, even though Wentz was my no.2 option for QB for 2021 after going for a QB in the draft. But going for one in the draft was by far my favorite option. 

 

You cannot make decisions with the fear that you will lose 3-4 1st for a bust at QB. Yes you might waste them. Or you might get a franchise QB. But you can waste 3-4 first on any position really. In fact, teams waste them all the time on all sorts of positions. The hit rate is similar for all positions in the 1st round. People act like if you make those 4 picks on other positions you will get 4 hits... when the reality is more like - you will get 2 right and will get two busts. So you will be left with 2 Paye level players that won't be able to compensate for the lack of franchise QB anyways. QB is so much more important than any other position on the field that to me the question about whether or not you go for a QB in the draft should be almost entirely removed from the price. The question should be - do you believe in this QB and do you think he has a good chance to become your franchise QB with development and experience? If the answer is yes - you go for it, almost regardeless of the price you need to pay. If not, you stay put and you continue to improve your roster at other spots or accumulating assets for a future draft when you might need them to go get the QB you love. 

 

5 hours ago, Four2itus said:

Everyone is entitled to give their opinion. And we can all point fingers until we're blue in the face. But the reality is, our QB retired earlier than expected, and this GM has done pretty damned well with how the events have unfolded. 

 

32 teams, about a dozen legit QB's that are playing at a level to be THAT guy. That means, the Colts are eating out of the same dish that at least a dozen other hungry mouths are looking for dinner from. Wouldn't just a tad more patience be prudent?

Oh, I've been patient. I've been saying for a while that I don't want Ballard to take a QB just to take a QB and that I'm willing to give him a bit of time. But at some point he will need to hit on a QB or he won't be our GM for long. And he already missed on one - Wentz was his first big shot at a QB after Luck retired. I don't think Irsay will stand for another season like this if Ballard and Reich decide to stick with Wentz for example. 

5 hours ago, Four2itus said:

So how does the team realistically get that guy in the near future? We've heard all the names thrown around, but how does that realistically get done? Please, can we not go to the tanking suggestion? 

Realistically... in the immediate, we have several options:

1. Stick with Wentz, maybe add competition/insurance in the form of... Mariota, Winston, Trubisky... 

2. Go for another mediocre option - Cousins, Jimmy G, etc. 

3. Go for broke with one of the premier vets who might be on the market - Rodgers, Wilson... Watson( )

4. Fall in love with a QB in the draft, trade up or hope he falls to you in the second. 

 

I honestly don't love any of those. I think I like 4 most, but again - only if they actually fall in love with a QB. I don't want us to draft one just to draft one as a flyer to see what happens. If we are drafting one high we need to have concrete plan and idea about what we will be doing with him and how we will be developing him to be our franchise guy. 

 

I think the options in order of preference for me are  4>3>1>=2 (depending on what the price is for going for someone like Cousins or Jimmy G - if they come free'ish I'm good with it, if not, I prefer we stick with Wentz).

 

But for long-term success, IMO 3 is not very desireable and that's why even though I think it might give us best chance in the immediate future, I don't love it long-term. 

 

But maybe the most realistic option would be for us to go for it in 2023. I just am not sure Ballard and Reich will survive 2022 this way. 

[Two_pound]

That was very well put Four2itus, I've been saying the same thing since the season ended. There has been no other realistic option at qb. Wentz has to play better, he really needs to just take a check down to Taylor more often. At least our qb situation is a lot better than the steelers. Can you imagine how this forum would be blowing up with the prospect of choosing between Mason Rudolph and Dwayne Haskins?

[DiogoSales]

6 hours ago, Four2itus said:

I read every thread that is started on this Colts board. Can't say that I read all the posts, because my ignore list is almost at the bottom of page 2. However, I have gathered enough opinions here on this subject...to know that there is some truth, a lot of assumption, and a lot of groaning. 

 

Let's try to discuss how the Colts got to this point, what their options truly were (foresight then...not hindsight now), and lastly, what they can do to one day have a franchise QB again. 

 

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb

 

At this point I must admit that I have been backing Wentz from the get go. I still do....but I can better see his shortcomings now. I still think there is a chance he can be a good to great QB in this league. I do not know if that will happen, but another year to find out is both what I think will happen, and it is what I hope will happen based on contract/time frame/availability/continuity. 

 

Andrew Luck retired in August of 2019. Since that event, GM Chris Ballard has had 2 drafts. Let me repeat that again.....2 drafts. So, the Colts are sitting now with a QB that a 1st and a 3rd round pick were traded in compensation. They fell short of making the playoffs this season, a game short of their first round playoff exit the previous season. 

 

The Colts traded their 1st round slot #13, to the 9'ers to acquire Defo. To be realistic, Joe Burrow was simply not available for the Colts to move up and get at the number 1 slot. Why, because the Bengals would not have lost their opportunity to do the very thing this board is salivating at....get their guy. And for that matter, we don't know that Ballard didn't try. That leaves Herbert. What would the Colts have had to throw in to entice a team just as needy of their "franchise" QB as the Colts were, to trade out of the #6 slot? Our second at #34 (Pittman?), or our #41 (Taylor?) Both? Tua was taken just before Herbert what if he was chosen? Remember, see the underlined bolded above. So, with at least a dozen other teams all trying to do what some are proposing the Colts should have done.....and one realistic possibility......is a fail? Tough crowd.  

 

Let's move on. Instead of doing the above scenario, Ballard went to work at the top portion of the draft netting two offensive players. Pittman, at a damned near unanimous opinion position of need, has developed nicely. He will play for this team a long time. Taylor is a damned star. By getting Rivers, the team got a vet to take a shot at the playoffs, blend the team together, and get a better picture of the next seasons options. In the 2021 draft, once again, the top 3 spots in the draft were filled by QB's. Trevor Lawrence, Zack Wilson, and Trey Lance. The only one in the playoffs is riding the pine. Do we know that any of them are going to be all that? How many 1st would it have taken to move up from the #21 slot to acquire one of those? Three.....four? Probably at least 3 and our second rounder this year and next. That means zero pass rush acquired at the top end of the draft. Was that a failure?

 

The trade for Wentz has not worked out as of yet. And it might not. But considering the options, and Ballard's respect and belief in Frank, he went with Wentz. What would it have taken to get someone better? 3 first's? More? Just to add.....if anyone thinks it has been uncomfortable in here with how the season ended, it doesn't hold a candle to what this place would be like with 3-4 first's being lost in a failed QB attempt. Not...even...close. 

 

Everyone is entitled to give their opinion. And we can all point fingers until we're blue in the face. But the reality is, our QB retired earlier than expected, and this GM has done pretty damned well with how the events have unfolded. 

 

32 teams, about a dozen legit QB's that are playing at a level to be THAT guy. That means, the Colts are eating out of the same dish that at least a dozen other hungry mouths are looking for dinner from. Wouldn't just a tad more patience be prudent?

 

So how does the team realistically get that guy in the near future? We've heard all the names thrown around, but how does that realistically get done? Please, can we not go to the tanking suggestion? 

 

We could have Brady (was rumored), choose familiar Rivers.

 

Sttaford would be a better option than Wentz (familiarity)

 

Leno would be a better option than Fischer (familiarity)

 

We all can agree with most you said here, the only point is that when is not working you change the approach.

 

Getting guys that you are "familiar" instead of taking real chances are not paying off. You only stick to process if it's working, is not.

 

If Wentz improve, he's going to be a better Tanehill or Jimmy G, not enough, maybe just enough to reach 2023 draft without rebuild.

[AwesomeAustin]

I think we have a very capable QB that needs time, weapons and 4th quarter defense. We have made our move and it’s not over yet.  Keep with the plan and bring this squad back with upgrades at game changing positions. 

[Smonroe]

My list of (probably) available QBs, and my opinion:

 

Rodger - Great QB, at the end of his career.

Wilson - Great QB, would probably take our next two #1s, Wentz, and maybe a little more like Kelly

Watson -Great QB, but let’s face it, we ain’t going there

Carr -Very good QB, better than Wentz, doable if LV decides to move on

Cousins - Very good, but is he really an upgrade?

Brady - nah 

 

IMHO Wilson is a franchise QB and can be had if we “push all the chips in”.  Problem solved. 

[BProland85]

3 hours ago, tvturner said:

The 2023 class.

 

Trading a TON to move up and get Bryce Young or CJ Stroud

3 of the 4 teams in the playoffs still were bold in going after their franchise QB. KC had Alex Smith and traded up to get Mahomes. The 49ers traded up to get Trey Lance to be their future. And the Rams traded to get Stafford, who was a prized QB target this past offseason. 
 

What I would give to find the next young star at QB for the Colts. It would do this team wonders. 

[MikeCurtis]

3 hours ago, tvturner said:

The 2023 class.

 

Trading a TON to move up and get Bryce Young or CJ Stroud

I hope we dont have to do this, but I think BOTH players will be stars

 

Id rather Wentz turns it around and we use this offseason to build around him

 

Then use the first round pick in another area

[coltsva]

Until you find your long term QB, you try every year to get him. You can't take this year off by saying "we'll give Carson one more year." You can give him one more year, but you must bring in your next option now, and not wait another year to see if Carson works out. It doesn't mean you mortgage your future every year, but it does mean you keep trying. 

 

I didn't like the move for Wentz at the time and still don't, but it did show Ballard was trying for a long term solution. If they stick with Wentz for another season, I'm in the camp that says bring in Trubisky. He's in a similar situation where he didn't work out with his first team (funny that a guy with a 29-21 record is a "bust"), he's still young, and he has talent. 

[MikeCurtis]

1 hour ago, Smonroe said:

My list of (probably) available QBs, and my opinion:

 

Rodger - Great QB, at the end of his career.

Wilson - Great QB, would probably take our next two #1s, Wentz, and maybe a little more like Kelly

Watson -Great QB, but let’s face it, we ain’t going there

Carr -Very good QB, better than Wentz, doable if LV decides to move on

Cousins - Very good, but is he really an upgrade?

Brady - nah 

 

IMHO Wilson is a franchise QB and can be had if we “push all the chips in”.  Problem solved. 

This is a good list, but are any really viable?

 

Rodgers seems done in GB He is 38. How many more years does he have?

 

Wilson is 33, but I dont see him coming to small market Indy

 

Rodgers is playing at his peak, right now

 

There are so many of the Youtube Colts programs saying that we need to go all in for him

 

IF (A BIG IF) he wants to play for the next 4 years, and we can work a trade.....

 

It would cost us someone like Q and Wentz (We would have to take some of wentz cap hit as part of the deal) We DO have 2 decent guards on this team other than Q.

It would also save us from paying 18M for a guard

 

EXTREMELY Unlikely, but with Rodgers and a shiny new DE that can actually rush the passer in FA

 

AND some picks in this draft (WR/TE)  We WOULD be a better team, maybe a SB team

 

I dont see it happening though

 

The best solution is that Wentz steps it up.......

 

I keep hearing that Irsay wants to go "ALL IN" this coming year.........  Lets see what that means

 

 

 

[BlackTiger]

Tanking does happen sometimes in the league but i dont want or expect the colts to do it.

 

Tampa tanked at least one game to draft Winston for example, there have probably been less obvious cases that lasted longer too

 

that said the colts should look into every possible option involving trades, the draft and free agency to upgrade the team.  The discussion isnt just going away, though i dont support "tanking" now

[BlackTiger]

25 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

rodgers seems done in GB He is 38. How many more years does he have?

 

probably not long but one or two years could be enough for a run somewhere.  If they made a trade there might have to be some sort of protection clause in there like there was with Wentz

 

I wasnt crazy about offering a huge haul for him a few weeks ago, but he seems to really want out now.  maybe something could be worked out.  He may not come here but chances are rising that he goes somewhere, we should at least look into it

[Smonroe]

24 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

This is a good list, but are any really viable?

 

Rodgers seems done in GB He is 38. How many more years does he have?

 

Wilson is 33, but I dont see him coming to small market Indy

 

Rodgers is playing at his peak, right now

 

There are so many of the Youtube Colts programs saying that we need to go all in for him

 

IF (A BIG IF) he wants to play for the next 4 years, and we can work a trade.....

 

It would cost us someone like Q and Wentz (We would have to take some of wentz cap hit as part of the deal) We DO have 2 decent guards on this team other than Q.

It would also save us from paying 18M for a guard

 

EXTREMELY Unlikely, but with Rodgers and a shiny new DE that can actually rush the passer in FA

 

AND some picks in this draft (WR/TE)  We WOULD be a better team, maybe a SB team

 

I dont see it happening though

 

The best solution is that Wentz steps it up.......

 

I keep hearing that Irsay wants to go "ALL IN" this coming year.........  Lets see what that means

 

 

 

Personally, I don’t see Rodgers as a “Ballard” type, based on his age and his having one foot out the door to Hollywood.  
 

I think that Irsay said he wants everyone to push their chips all in, it’s up for interpretation whether he meant availability (vaxed) or if he meant he’s willing to spend.  
 

I’m hoping for Wilson.  He fits the profile and can play another 5-10 years if he wants.  I know the price is steep, but IMHO no price is too steep for a true franchise QB.

 

But realistically I agree with you about the best solution.  The question is, can he?

[BlackTiger]

4 hours ago, Two_pound said:

At least our qb situation is a lot better than the steelers. Can you imagine how this forum would be blowing up with the prospect of choosing between Mason Rudolph and Dwayne Haskins?

They will probably go after rogers, wilson or Carr themselves, if it doesnt work out they use their first round pick and maybe reach for a qb if thats what it takes.  

 

Rudolph and haskins are backups and they know it, i doubt they start week one 

 

 

[chad72]

2 hours ago, DiogoSales said:

 

We could have Brady (was rumored), choose familiar Rivers.

 

Sttaford would be a better option than Wentz (familiarity)

 

Leno would be a better option than Fischer (familiarity)

 

We all can agree with most you said here, the only point is that when is not working you change the approach.

 

Getting guys that you are "familiar" instead of taking real chances are not paying off. You only stick to process if it's working, is not.

 

If Wentz improve, he's going to be a better Tannehill or Jimmy G, not enough, maybe just enough to reach 2023 draft without rebuild.

 

Very valid points. That is what I think we will do. Seahawks did endure several years of a decent roster and QB purgatory from 2008-2011 till Russell Wilson came along in 2012. You keep building the roster and all the support that the QB needs so that when the right QB comes along, via draft or free agency, the pieces are in place for you to be a SB contender every year. 

 

It is a first for us, this QB purgatory following Peyton and Luck, but it not unlike what other teams have faced, we are just face to face with that reality that we may not be SB contenders as quickly as we thought we might be. The Colts, if they want to maximize the OL / JT window, they will have to act by 2023 at the latest to find their franchise QB. You don't get a hit if you don't swing, even if some of your swings end up as misses. Wentz is our latest swing. Unlike JB, Luck, JB, Rivers, Wentz, let us for once go with the same QB for a 2nd year in a row and see how it goes with improved talent around him, and a good backup QB plan. We will definitely have our answer for a future plan at the end of the 2022 season, IMO.

[boo2202]

7 hours ago, Four2itus said:

I read every thread that is started on this Colts board. Can't say that I read all the posts, because my ignore list is almost at the bottom of page 2. However, I have gathered enough opinions here on this subject...to know that there is some truth, a lot of assumption, and a lot of groaning. 

 

Let's try to discuss how the Colts got to this point, what their options truly were (foresight then...not hindsight now), and lastly, what they can do to one day have a franchise QB again. 

 

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb

 

At this point I must admit that I have been backing Wentz from the get go. I still do....but I can better see his shortcomings now. I still think there is a chance he can be a good to great QB in this league. I do not know if that will happen, but another year to find out is both what I think will happen, and it is what I hope will happen based on contract/time frame/availability/continuity. 

 

Andrew Luck retired in August of 2019. Since that event, GM Chris Ballard has had 2 drafts. Let me repeat that again.....2 drafts. So, the Colts are sitting now with a QB that a 1st and a 3rd round pick were traded in compensation. They fell short of making the playoffs this season, a game short of their first round playoff exit the previous season. 

 

The Colts traded their 1st round slot #13, to the 9'ers to acquire Defo. To be realistic, Joe Burrow was simply not available for the Colts to move up and get at the number 1 slot. Why, because the Bengals would not have lost their opportunity to do the very thing this board is salivating at....get their guy. And for that matter, we don't know that Ballard didn't try. That leaves Herbert. What would the Colts have had to throw in to entice a team just as needy of their "franchise" QB as the Colts were, to trade out of the #6 slot? Our second at #34 (Pittman?), or our #41 (Taylor?) Both? Tua was taken just before Herbert what if he was chosen? Remember, see the underlined bolded above. So, with at least a dozen other teams all trying to do what some are proposing the Colts should have done.....and one realistic possibility......is a fail? Tough crowd.  

 

Let's move on. Instead of doing the above scenario, Ballard went to work at the top portion of the draft netting two offensive players. Pittman, at a damned near unanimous opinion position of need, has developed nicely. He will play for this team a long time. Taylor is a damned star. By getting Rivers, the team got a vet to take a shot at the playoffs, blend the team together, and get a better picture of the next seasons options. In the 2021 draft, once again, the top 3 spots in the draft were filled by QB's. Trevor Lawrence, Zack Wilson, and Trey Lance. The only one in the playoffs is riding the pine. Do we know that any of them are going to be all that? How many 1st would it have taken to move up from the #21 slot to acquire one of those? Three.....four? Probably at least 3 and our second rounder this year and next. That means zero pass rush acquired at the top end of the draft. Was that a failure?

 

The trade for Wentz has not worked out as of yet. And it might not. But considering the options, and Ballard's respect and belief in Frank, he went with Wentz. What would it have taken to get someone better? 3 first's? More? Just to add.....if anyone thinks it has been uncomfortable in here with how the season ended, it doesn't hold a candle to what this place would be like with 3-4 first's being lost in a failed QB attempt. Not...even...close. 

 

Everyone is entitled to give their opinion. And we can all point fingers until we're blue in the face. But the reality is, our QB retired earlier than expected, and this GM has done pretty damned well with how the events have unfolded. 

 

32 teams, about a dozen legit QB's that are playing at a level to be THAT guy. That means, the Colts are eating out of the same dish that at least a dozen other hungry mouths are looking for dinner from. Wouldn't just a tad more patience be prudent?

 

So how does the team realistically get that guy in the near future? We've heard all the names thrown around, but how does that realistically get done? Please, can we not go to the tanking suggestion? 

Completely agree and great post. After watching the playoffs the past couple weeks, no way we made a run at it this year. I’m not sure when we’ll actually be a true contender but “It is what it is”. This team is still building and my hope is they continue to build. 

[Colt.45]

Good post @Four2itus

 

Did CB build a running team over a passing team? That's the central question for me. Everything else ladders down from there. The decisions a GM makes come from the central idea of what you think your dream team ought to be. For the first time in his tenure, this playoff loss made Ballard acknowledge that passing is what wins in this league. I think there will be a change in central strategy moving forward. I think the positions CB prioritizes are going to shift.

 

As for the most important position, yeah clearly this offseason has signaled a big shift away from saying 'its about more than one guy'. With that said, i just cant see the GM mortgaging the future for anyone who isnt a proven premier talent. If he cant get Russ or Rodgers, I cant see him diving in the dumpster. I'm not sure what he thinks about the draft class yet....he may have an eye on someone.

 

 

[MikeCurtis]

33 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

probably not long but one or two years could be enough for a run somewhere.  If they made a trade there might have to be some sort of protection clause in there like there was with Wentz

 

I wasnt crazy about offering a huge haul for him a few weeks ago, but he seems to really want out now.  maybe something could be worked out.  He may not come here but chances are rising that he goes somewhere, we should at least look into it

Part of the problem is the OTHER teams in the NFL, and the fact that IF Rodgers wants out and demands a trade

 

Cleveland has a strong team outside of the QB

3-4 other teams have a really good team, but no star QB

 

It will be a bloodbath of an auction for Rodgers as well as for Wilson

 

If Wilson is truly wanting out (Not proven) Seattle is not letting him go for cheap..... he will be an auction as well

 

If you look at the teams left in the playoffs with the exception of the Rams the QBs were all drafted 

 

 

I really think that the Colts will let the sting of a playoff loss drop, cooler heads will prevail, and they will take one last swing with Carson

 

At the end of next year, if Carson stinks it up, we are in range to get one of the blue chips QBs in next years draft

 

 

Not a sexy approach, but I dont think we truly have many options

 

[BlackTiger]

10 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Part of the problem is the OTHER teams in the NFL, and the fact that IF Rodgers wants out and demands a trade

 

Cleveland has a strong team outside of the QB

3-4 other teams have a really good team, but no star QB

 

It will be a bloodbath of an auction for Rodgers as well as for Wilson

 

If Wilson is truly wanting out (Not proven) Seattle is not letting him go for cheap..... he will be an auction as well

 

If you look at the teams left in the playoffs with the exception of the Rams the QBs were all drafted 

 

 

I really think that the Colts will let the sting of a playoff loss drop, cooler heads will prevail, and they will take one last swing with Carson

 

At the end of next year, if Carson stinks it up, we are in range to get one of the blue chips QBs in next years draft

 

 

Not a sexy approach, but I dont think we truly have many options

 

im not ready to just dismiss everything right now.  As of this moment there are options in the draft, FA and trade markets.

 

Probably greater than 50% odds he comes back, but not enough for me to stop talking about it and say CW is our guy next year.  Jim seems to want a move so something could happen 

 

 

[AwesomeAustin]

Our roster is no better or marginally better than Seattle, Arizona, Tenn, Raiders, Atlanta, and Minnesota.  Most would say they have better QBs and those teams either missed the playoffs or were one and done. 
 

Tampa, GB, Dallas and NE all have better rosters and better QBs and they also were bounced pretty quick.  We beat one team and almost beat another on this list. 
 

Point is we aren’t a QB away from being a contender.  We are already there and we have a good QB in place.  Yes scheme and QB improvements are a must.  Have to get better each year.  We also need another playmaker on each side of the ball, probably two on defense.  I will keep saying this all offseason, the pieces are basically all here.  We need 10-15% improvement and you get that with continuity and self scouting. 

[masterlock]

5 hours ago, stitches said:

Luck's retirement really screwed us up. And I'm willing to give some leeway and some time to the GM to find the new guy, but AT SOME POINT he has to actually do it. And IMO Ballard made his first big bet with Wentz. If you listen to his press-conference from a few weeks ago, I don't think he likes his bet right now... "at the time" he did though... 

 

It doesn't matter. None of the Taylors, Pittmans of the world matter when the alternative is a franchise QB. You get the QB first, then you worry about RBs... or any position really. At the time I wanted us to go get Herbert or Love. Love is still a questionmark and very well might not pan out. Herbert has been great and projects to be one of the best QBs in the league going forward. 

 

I loved pretty much all of them. I thought this was a clearcut chance for us to get a good prospect... if we really wanted to do it. Do we know with certainty that any of them will be good? No. But you will never get certainty with prospect projections... especially when you are drafting in the teens and teams will never trade out of Trevor Lawrences of the world. You will need to take a chance on someone and develop him. None of the QBs we realistically will continue to have a chance at will be perfect prospects. Mahomes, Watson, Allen, Lamar, Herbert... none of them were perfect prospects. But their teams identified them and targetted them in the draft.  

 

And again - in the grand scheme of things... it doesn't matter that you won't have Paye and Dayo. Arguably it doesn't matter right now that you have them when you are putting Carson Wentz on the field. No price is too high to pay for a franchise QB...  

 

At the time I thought Wentz was a solid flyer to take at a QB with talent who needs rehabilitation and rebuild. I didn't see him as a QB who warrants that type of assets being put into him, though. And I said so at the time, even though Wentz was my no.2 option for QB for 2021 after going for a QB in the draft. But going for one in the draft was by far my favorite option. 

 

You cannot make decisions with the fear that you will lose 3-4 1st for a bust at QB. Yes you might waste them. Or you might get a franchise QB. But you can waste 3-4 first on any position really. In fact, teams waste them all the time on all sorts of positions. The hit rate is similar for all positions in the 1st round. People act like if you make those 4 picks on other positions you will get 4 hits... when the reality is more like - you will get 2 right and will get two busts. So you will be left with 2 Paye level players that won't be able to compensate for the lack of franchise QB anyways. QB is so much more important than any other position on the field that to me the question about whether or not you go for a QB in the draft should be almost entirely removed from the price. The question should be - do you believe in this QB and do you think he has a good chance to become your franchise QB with development and experience? If the answer is yes - you go for it, almost regardeless of the price you need to pay. If not, you stay put and you continue to improve your roster at other spots or accumulating assets for a future draft when you might need them to go get the QB you love. 

 

Oh, I've been patient. I've been saying for a while that I don't want Ballard to take a QB just to take a QB and that I'm willing to give him a bit of time. But at some point he will need to hit on a QB or he won't be our GM for long. And he already missed on one - Wentz was his first big shot at a QB after Luck retired. I don't think Irsay will stand for another season like this if Ballard and Reich decide to stick with Wentz for example. 

Realistically... in the immediate, we have several options:

1. Stick with Wentz, maybe add competition/insurance in the form of... Mariota, Winston, Trubisky... 

2. Go for another mediocre option - Cousins, Jimmy G, etc. 

3. Go for broke with one of the premier vets who might be on the market - Rodgers, Wilson... Watson( )

4. Fall in love with a QB in the draft, trade up or hope he falls to you in the second. 

 

I honestly don't love any of those. I think I like 4 most, but again - only if they actually fall in love with a QB. I don't want us to draft one just to draft one as a flyer to see what happens. If we are drafting one high we need to have concrete plan and idea about what we will be doing with him and how we will be developing him to be our franchise guy. 

 

I think the options in order of preference for me are  4>3>1>=2 (depending on what the price is for going for someone like Cousins or Jimmy G - if they come free'ish I'm good with it, if not, I prefer we stick with Wentz).

 

But for long-term success, IMO 3 is not very desireable and that's why even though I think it might give us best chance in the immediate future, I don't love it long-term. 

 

But maybe the most realistic option would be for us to go for it in 2023. I just am not sure Ballard and Reich will survive 2022 this way. 

Excellent post. 

[stitches]

3 hours ago, Smonroe said:

My list of (probably) available QBs, and my opinion:

 

Rodger - Great QB, at the end of his career.

Wilson - Great QB, would probably take our next two #1s, Wentz, and maybe a little more like Kelly

Watson -Great QB, but let’s face it, we ain’t going there

Carr -Very good QB, better than Wentz, doable if LV decides to move on

Cousins - Very good, but is he really an upgrade?

Brady - nah 

 

IMHO Wilson is a franchise QB and can be had if we “push all the chips in”.  Problem solved. 

The thing with Rodgers and Wilson (who IMO are the best options for win-now move) is that Rodgers is getting old and I have no idea how many more years you can expect out of him and Wilson already looked like he's slipping a bit this year and he's in his mid-30s... possibly his athleticism is declining. I am not sure I would be willing to shell multiple 1sts for a 1 or 2 years solution, and I wouldn't be shocked if both of them have about that left in the tank at high level - 1-2 years. They won't be exactly bandaids because they give you a really high ceiling, but they won't be long-term solutions either. In essence they are the equivalent of a Kawhi Leonard to Toronto move - you make that move with the express knowledge and understanding that you are going all in the in the next 1-2 years and you don't care if they leave your team in limbo after that period.  

 

Carr... he's better than Wentz. I still am not certain he's the guys and that he's worth it what it would take(probably multiple high picks), IMO they will not move on... at the very least they will franchise tag him so they can trade him. Plus, I don't see him as the long-term QB so he will again be another bandaid. Even after we get him we will still be in the same situation we are now - looking for our next guy. 

 

Cousins... IMO he's upgrade, but his salary is insane and not worth it. Again, not certain he's worth it and he's just another bandaid. Even after we get him we will still be in the same situation we are now - looking for our next guy. 

 

[IinD]

Just gotta keep building the team now like every team with no QB does.

 

I think it's just our fanbase isn't accustomed to this so it'll be 'freak out' city until we find one.

 

It is what it is. 

 

Hope we're in a good spot when one becomes available and pounce on him. But I don't want the front office to just keep drafting/trading guys out of desperation, that rarely works either.

[Smonroe]

5 minutes ago, stitches said:

The thing with Rodgers and Wilson (who IMO are the best options for win-now move) is that Rodgers is getting old and I have no idea how many more years you can expect out of him and Wilson already looked like he's slipping a bit this year and he's in his mid-30s... possibly his athleticism is declining. I am not sure I would be willing to shell multiple 1sts for a 1 or 2 years solution, and I wouldn't be shocked if both of them have about that left in the tank at high level - 1-2 years. They won't be exactly bandaids because they give you a really high ceiling, but they won't be long-term solutions either. In essence they are the equivalent of a Kawhi Leonard to Toronto move - you make that move with the express knowledge and understanding that you are going all in the in the next 1-2 years and you don't care if they leave your team in limbo after that period.  

 

Carr... he's better than Wentz. I still am not certain he's the guys and that he's worth it what it would take(probably multiple high picks), IMO they will not move on... at the very least they will franchise tag him so they can trade him. Plus, I don't see him as the long-term QB so he will again be another bandaid. 

 

Cousins... IMO he's upgrade, but his salary is insane and not worth it. Again, not certain he's worth it and he's just another bandaid. 

 

 

I get what you're saying.  I think Wilson is 33 going into the season.  I didn't watch much of Seattle except in week one, where he looked pretty good.  I know there are a lot of issues there.  I still think he's the best option if we really want a franchise QB.  I also think Carr is a better option than Wentz, but I'm not as sold on him.

 

And yes, I think we need to go all in.  What's the alternative?  We have a pretty good team, so we're probably not going to get a top draft pick in 23.  And let's say we trade up, somehow, and get our QB of the future for the 24 season.  Would a rookie QB take us there immediately?  Kind of doubt it.

 

So, if we don't make a move to improve the QB position, do we turn into the Bronco's at best?

 

To repeat - if we want to win now, we have to go all in.  You could say we're sacrificing the future, but what kind of future would we be sacrificing?  Mediocrity?

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, BProland85 said:

3 of the 4 teams in the playoffs still were bold in going after their franchise QB. KC had Alex Smith and traded up to get Mahomes. The 49ers traded up to get Trey Lance to be their future. And the Rams traded to get Stafford, who was a prized QB target this past offseason. 
 

What I would give to find the next young star at QB for the Colts. It would do this team wonders. 

 

I agree...which is why I have no issue trying this offseason and next if necessary. OR...intentionally setting themselves up for next year's draft. Not by tanking, but by acquiring draft capital.

[stitches]

14 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

I get what you're saying.  I think Wilson is 33 going into the season.  I didn't watch much of Seattle except in week one, where he looked pretty good.  I know there are a lot of issues there.  I still think he's the best option if we really want a franchise QB.  I also think Carr is a better option than Wentz, but I'm not as sold on him.

 

And yes, I think we need to go all in.  What's the alternative?  We have a pretty good team, so we're probably not going to get a top draft pick in 23.  And let's say we trade up, somehow, and get our QB of the future for the 24 season.  Would a rookie QB take us there immediately?  Kind of doubt it.

 

So, if we don't make a move to improve the QB position, do we turn into the Bronco's at best?

 

To repeat - if we want to win now, we have to go all in.  You could say we're sacrificing the future, but what kind of future would we be sacrificing?  Mediocrity?

I almost want Irsay to give Ballard and Reich one free year with zero consequence for what happens - this next year, because the 2023 draft actually looks like it might have some good QBs. Meaning - stick with Wentz, improve the team as much as possible without touching any future asset. In fact, if possible trade current year assets for future assets to help with potentially trading up for QB the following year. If he really trusts them and they are not on the hot seat this would be the best course of action IMO. But from everything that Irsay has said and what's being reported it seems like he was extremely * off after the Jax game and I really don't know if Ballard and Reich can survive another year like that.

[throwing BBZ]

2 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

This is a good list, but are any really viable?

 

Rodgers seems done in GB He is 38. How many more years does he have?

 

Wilson is 33, but I dont see him coming to small market Indy

 

Rodgers is playing at his peak, right now

 

There are so many of the Youtube Colts programs saying that we need to go all in for him

 

IF (A BIG IF) he wants to play for the next 4 years, and we can work a trade.....

 

It would cost us someone like Q and Wentz (We would have to take some of wentz cap hit as part of the deal) We DO have 2 decent guards on this team other than Q.

It would also save us from paying 18M for a guard

 

EXTREMELY Unlikely, but with Rodgers and a shiny new DE that can actually rush the passer in FA

 

AND some picks in this draft (WR/TE)  We WOULD be a better team, maybe a SB team

 

I dont see it happening though

 

The best solution is that Wentz steps it up.......

 

I keep hearing that Irsay wants to go "ALL IN" this coming year.........  Lets see what that means

 

 

 

 

 If Rogers leaves Green Bay i would expect Davante to demand a trade.

Winning that bidding war would be going all in. He IS fantastic that is for sure.

[Smonroe]

4 minutes ago, stitches said:

I almost want Irsay to give Ballard and Reich one free year with zero consequence for what happens - this next year, because the 2023 draft actually looks like it might have some good QBs. Meaning - stick with Wentz, improve the team as much as possible without touching any future asset. In fact, if possible trade current year assets for future assets to help with potentially trading up for QB the following year. If he really trusts them and they are not on the hot seat this would be the best course of action IMO. But from everything that Irsay has said and what's being reported it seems like he was extremely * off after the Jax game and I really don't know if Ballard and Reich can survive another year like that.

 

That's probably what's going to happen anyway.  No one really knows what Irsay meant by his "chips" comment.

 

His latest tweet about scoring could mean a different approach by Reich.

 

While there are some good QBs coming out in 23 (Stroud, Young, etc.), I don't see any of them as a generational player.  Look at all the first round QBs this year.  None of them really did that great (except when we played Lawrence).  I understand it was mainly because of the teams they went to, but remember 2012.  The Colts won 2 games in 11 and Luck took us to the playoffs.  

[Smonroe]

4 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 If Rogers leaves Green Bay i would expect Davante to demand a trade.

Winning that bidding war would be going all in. He IS fantastic that is for sure.

 

I'm pretty sure Adams is a FA this year, so no trade needed.  Yes, he's going to break the bank somewhere.  I doubt it will be in Indy.

[shasta519]

This team, as constructed, seems to resemble a poor man's version of the TEN team. To make matters worse, the Colts are more like TEN was back BEFORE the 2019 season (not the current version).

 

Look at these parallels:

• Coming off a 9-win season where they narrowly missed the playoffs by losing to a divisional rival in the final week (which was the Colts)
• Great RB (Henry) who had just exploded onto the scene
• Huge question at QB, both in the short and long-term with Mariota, who had a huge cap hit that upcoming season
• Lack of playmakers in the passing game. Only viable WR was Corey Davis, who had nearly 900 yards that season, but no other pass catcher had more than 500 yards (sounds familiar)

Here is what TEN did:

• Traded for Ryan Tannehill for cheap to compete with Mariota as the QB2
• Drafted AJ Brown to be their WR1 in the 2nd round
• Pretty much crushed that draft (Simmons, Nate Davis, Amani Hooker, David Long) 

And when Mariota inevitably struggled, Tannehill took over and everything sort of clicked on offense, with Brown breaking out and even Jonnu Smith becoming productive.

 

It took the defense a couple of seasons and lots of investments to catch up, but it appears they have. I think the Colts have a bit of a head start there, but they definitely need help at ER and S.

 

I am skeptical the Colts can get as lucky as TEN got, let alone pull all of that off. But whether it's through a post-hype lottery ticket like Trubisky, or the draft, they at least have to try. when it comes to QB (and WR/TE as well). 

[shasta519]

13 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 If Rogers leaves Green Bay i would expect Davante to demand a trade.

Winning that bidding war would be going all in. He IS fantastic that is for sure.

 

The problem with Adams is that GB can just franchise tag him. So I don't think he's going anywhere for free. However, in order to get him to sign it and not have it be a messy situation, they would likely set up a trade (with his approval) that works for everybody involved. If Rodgers leaves, it will be interesting to see just how committed he is to playing with him. 

[shasta519]

16 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

I'm pretty sure Adams is a FA this year, so no trade needed.  Yes, he's going to break the bank somewhere.  I doubt it will be in Indy.

 

He is, but I think it depends on whether they franchise tag him. 

 

If they are truly rebuilding, I think they will look to package Rodgers + Adams (tag and trade). Of course with the draft capital for something like that, it doesn't even seem remotely possible for the Colts.

[Nesjan3]

2 hours ago, BlackTiger said:

Tanking does happen sometimes in the league but i dont want or expect the colts to do it.

 

Tampa tanked at least one game to draft Winston for example, there have probably been less obvious cases that lasted longer too

 

that said the colts should look into every possible option involving trades, the draft and free agency to upgrade the team.  The discussion isnt just going away, though i dont support "tanking" now

Tanking does not happen get real, every snap for every player and coach is their resume. They don' take games off, you could be out of the league. Tanking is not a thing. Not in this league at least.

[BlackTiger]

29 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

Tanking does not happen get real, every snap for every player and coach is their resume.

I just gave an example where it did happen.  It was blatant and obvious

 

NFL coaches and analysts called them out for that too, it was pretty shameless and clear tanking for at least one game.  you should have at least read up on that before posting this 

 

tanking did happen in that situation, google did the bucs tank for winston

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 If Rogers leaves Green Bay i would expect Davante to demand a trade.

Winning that bidding war would be going all in. He IS fantastic that is for sure.

DeVonte  wants to be the highest paid WR in the game.   Do you see the Colts doing that?

 

Yeah, me neither…..

[Nesjan3]

9 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

I just gave an example where it did happen.  It was blatant and obvious

 

NFL coaches and analysts called them out for that too, it was pretty shameless and clear tanking for at least one game.  you should have at least read up on that before posting this 

 

tanking did happen in that situation, google did the bucs tank for winston

Sorry it sure did not lol

[BlackTiger]

4 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

Sorry it sure did not lol

Your being ignorant doesnt make you right.  i told when it happened and to look it up, you can refuse but im still right