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3 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

Defo is good against the run, and does incredibly well for being doubled so much. So not sure we'd be all that vulnerable vs the run. Would depend biggly on how Dayo does vs the run. 

 

I have very little doubt that DT combo would be susceptible against the run, especially power running teams. 

 

I still have nightmares of the days dungy would trot out Raheem Brock and keyunta Dawson as our DTs. Granted defo definitely is more talented than Brock and presumably dayo is more talented than Dawson, but still, both dayo and defo are best at splitting defenders and shooting gaps. That's far easier for them to do when the opposing OL is backpedalling in pass pro... When the OL is run blocking and attacking our DL they're far more likely to nullify the smaller DTs. 

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1 minute ago, J@son said:

 

I have very little doubt that DT combo would be susceptible against the run, especially power running teams. 

 

I still have nightmares of the days dungy would trot out Raheem Brock and keyunta Dawson as our DTs. Granted defo definitely is more talented than Brock and presumably dayo is more talented than Dawson, but still, both dayo and defo are best at splitting defenders and shooting gaps. That's far easier for them to do when the opposing OL is backpedalling in pass pro... When the OL is run blocking and attacking our DL they're far more likely to nullify the smaller DTs. 

Dawson was just bad, and IIRC, he was sub 270. So not really a good comp IMO.

I think we simply will have to wait for Dayo. We just don't know enough right now.

And I don't think we have to worry about Dayo and Defo being on the interior outside of passing downs. 

Defo isn't going to NT permanently. I could see Dayo, if he develops and adds 10lbs, moving to 3T. 

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1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

Dawson was just bad, and IIRC, he was sub 270. So not really a good comp IMO.

I think we simply will have to wait for Dayo. We just don't know enough right now.

And I don't think we have to worry about Dayo and Defo being on the interior outside of passing downs. 

Defo isn't going to NT permanently. I could see Dayo, if he develops and adds 10lbs, moving to 3T. 

 

Eh you're nitpicking imo. Dawson wasnt bad as an interior pass rusher and he played in the 265 to 270 range so not all that far off. Dungy just went way overboard with the 'small but fast' philosophy and it got his team's run over both in indy and in Minnesota. His defense was only successful in tampa BUT kiffin is the one who was actually running the defense since dungy was the HC and had to manage the whole team and they had probowlers all over that defense. 

 

But like you said and I'm pretty sure I said earlier in the thread, putting defo and Dayo together in the middle makes defo the nt which nullifies his strengths. Defo or dayo would be best at 3 tech with a competent and properly sized 1 tech at the nose. 

 

 

So yeah, as I've said several times, we are most likely to only see defo and Dayo together on the interior in obvious passing situations.

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7 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

Eh you're nitpicking imo. Dawson wasnt bad as an interior pass rusher and he played in the 265 to 270 range so not all that far off. Dungy just went way overboard with the 'small but fast' philosophy and it got his team's run over both in indy and in Minnesota. His defense was only successful in tampa BUT kiffin is the one who was actually running the defense since dungy was the HC and had to manage the whole team and they had probowlers all over that defense. 

 

But like you said and I'm pretty sure I said earlier in the thread, putting defo and Dayo together in the middle makes defo the nt which nullifies his strengths. Defo or dayo would be best at 3 tech with a competent and properly sized 1 tech at the nose. 

 

 

So yeah, as I've said several times, we are most likely to only see defo and Dayo together on the interior in obvious passing situations.

Not nitpicking. Dawson was not good. He had one sack in his 4 years in Indy. 

 

Overall, in general, I want to see more blitzing, more stunting, etc.. Defo, Paye, and Dayo are all guys that were moved around the DL in previous stops, and caused havoc. We just don't do that in Indy. 

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1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

Not nitpicking. Dawson was not good. He had one sack in his 4 years in Indy. 

 

Because other teams knew they could run for 200 plus per game with Dawson and Brock in the middle :P:lol:

 

 

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On 1/23/2022 at 9:12 AM, Patrick Miller said:

Anyone else think that we need to upgrade at defensive tackle? In my opinion Grover Stewart is overrated/overpaid ......and D Buck can't do it all by himself. Perhaps we can pick up an upgrade in free agency?

Just so you know Grover graded out higher than D buck , 

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4 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

LOL... nah, he was just a 7th rounder, that wasn't good. No conspiracy. 

 

Yeah I was just joking that last reply. Regardless I still maintain a dayo and defo combo at dt on anything but obvious passing downs would get run through by downhill runners. 

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On 1/23/2022 at 9:12 AM, Patrick Miller said:

Anyone else think that we need to upgrade at defensive tackle? In my opinion Grover Stewart is overrated/overpaid ......and D Buck can't do it all by himself. Perhaps we can pick up an upgrade in free agency?

We regressed in run D from 10th to 20th... unexcusable after giving Grover that money to help Buck stop the run...

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8 hours ago, jbaron04 said:

Just so you know Grover graded out higher than D buck , 

Because DeFo gets doubled at a way higher rate. If Grover was really pulling his weight he would have taking the number of those doubles down... Grover is a good rotational guy but not an everydown guy we paid him to be...

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1 hour ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

Because DeFo gets doubled at a way higher rate. If Grover was really pulling his weight he would have taking the number of those doubles down... Grover is a good rotational guy but not an everydown guy we paid him to be...

Grover is not a super star but he stops the run well , Dfo was double ties for league high 70 something percent of the times with A.Donald. That is not a Grover issue but a DE issue lack of production at the out side 

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1 hour ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

We regressed in run D from 10th to 20th... unexcusable after giving Grover that money to help Buck stop the run...

From what i saw watching the 17 games it was more a LB and SS issue that led to big runs , Willis and Bobby always taking bad angles leading to explosive runs. Losing Walker hurt a lot cause he excelled at stopping the run but wasn’t as good in pass coverage. 

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37 minutes ago, jbaron04 said:

From what i saw watching the 17 games it was more a LB and SS issue that led to big runs , Willis and Bobby always taking bad angles leading to explosive runs. Losing Walker hurt a lot cause he excelled at stopping the run but wasn’t as good in pass coverage. 

The run should stop upfront and it more on the DE opposite Paye and Oke our Safties were good tacklers the problem is it shouldn't come down to safeties to stop Arun unless the are pressing or blitzing. Letting Autry go was a mistake he was huge in the run D. I still think Grover is overrated...

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20 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

The run should stop upfront and it more on the DE opposite Paye and Oke our Safties were good tacklers the problem is it shouldn't come down to safeties to stop Arun unless the are pressing or blitzing. Letting Autry go was a mistake he was huge in the run D. I still think Grover is overrated...

D line get line backers and safety clean lanes to stop run but miss tackles or run they self out of the play by taking bad angles Bobby was bad against the run and he is the Mike

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31 minutes ago, jbaron04 said:

D line get line backers and safety clean lanes to stop run but miss tackles or run they self out of the play by taking bad angles Bobby was bad against the run and he is the Mike

We keep letting the right players go and pay the wrong ones. We should have paid Autry no Stewart. We should have kept Walker Jr. Okereke is a wannabe Leonard at the wrong position...

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On 1/23/2022 at 11:35 AM, CR91 said:

I swear Stewart does not get the respect he deserves. The run defense is basically all him getting to the backfield to disrupt the RB or holding up linemen so Leonard or one of the LBers get to the back.

 

 

Agreed.  DT is not an area of concern and Grover is good at his job.  He's a really good 1T.

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On 1/23/2022 at 10:19 AM, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

I never said he would. 

 

Yeah you kinda did. Dayo has already been playing inside with defo this past year but only in passing situations. The premise of the OP was do we need an upgrade over Stewart. You said we didn't need an upgrade because dayo will be better next year. Therefore you inferred that dayo would be taking Stewart's playing time. Stewart only plays on early downs and short yardage, in other words when dayo is not on the field or at End. 

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6 hours ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

We keep letting the right players go and pay the wrong ones. We should have paid Autry no Stewart. We should have kept Walker Jr. Okereke is a wannabe Leonard at the wrong position...

Yea Ballard has to learn that u need vets on the team , Autry should have been kept for sure , letting Houston and Autry both walk and trying to rely on all young guys was a bad move

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13 hours ago, J@son said:

 

Yeah I was just joking that last reply. Regardless I still maintain a dayo and defo combo at dt on anything but obvious passing downs would get run through by downhill runners. 

 

It would not surprise me, but like I said, all hinges on Dayo. Defo is good vs the run. His missed tackle % is pretty darn good. It's actually really good given his heavy snap count. And Dayo, he missed zero tackles this year in limited snaps. Key word though, is limited. 

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2 hours ago, jbaron04 said:

Yea Ballard has to learn that u need vets on the team , Autry should have been kept for sure , letting Houston and Autry both walk and trying to rely on all young guys was a bad move

I read this A LOT   Any evidence there was NOT an offer?  Did Autry want to stay here? Or just a better offer elsewhere.   Serious questions, I really don't know.

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2 hours ago, jbaron04 said:

Yea Ballard has to learn that u need vets on the team , Autry should have been kept for sure , letting Houston and Autry both walk and trying to rely on all young guys was a bad move

He brought in Fisher. Rhodes, and Sandiego.  He also extended Doyle and brought back TY and went out and got Houston in the first place.  I think he understands you need vets.  That’s not why he didn’t bring back Houston and Autry.

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20 minutes ago, ChuggaBeer said:

I read this A LOT   Any evidence there was NOT an offer?  Did Autry want to stay here? Or just a better offer elsewhere.   Serious questions, I really don't know.


We made an offer.  But Tennessee’s deal had more guaranteed money in the second year.   That came from directly from Ballard.   We wanted Autry back, but not at that price.  

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Just now, NewColtsFan said:


We made an offer.  But Tennessee’s deal had more guaranteed money in the second year.   That came from directly from Ballard.   We wanted Autry back, but not at that price.  

That is kinda what I thought.  I was a huge Autry fan   The yr after he got hurt Almost everyone forgot about him.   He played as the 3 tech and was killing it before the injury.    Then we got DeBuck and he moved more to the outside.   Huge fan.    But I can see Ballards reasoning "at the time".     I really hate hindsight arguments.    LOL

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13 minutes ago, ChuggaBeer said:

That is kinda what I thought.  I was a huge Autry fan   The yr after he got hurt Almost everyone forgot about him.   He played as the 3 tech and was killing it before the injury.    Then we got DeBuck and he moved more to the outside.   Huge fan.    But I can see Ballards reasoning "at the time".     I really hate hindsight arguments.    LOL


Thank you.  But I’m afraid to share that if you hate hindsight arguments,  you’ll hate many of the discussions and debates around here.  Lots and lots of hindsight.   But that’s the nature of being a fan.   What can I tell you? 

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1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:


Thank you.  But I’m afraid to share that if you hate hindsight arguments,  you’ll hate many of the discussions and debates around here.  Lots and lots of hindsight.   But that’s the nature of being a fan.   What can I tell you? 

I like to say my thoughts at the time.    Many can use hindsight to argue they were right all along. LOL

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On 1/23/2022 at 11:32 PM, EastStreet said:

Dawson was just bad, and IIRC, he was sub 270. So not really a good comp IMO.

I think we simply will have to wait for Dayo. We just don't know enough right now.

And I don't think we have to worry about Dayo and Defo being on the interior outside of passing downs. 

Defo isn't going to NT permanently. I could see Dayo, if he develops and adds 10lbs, moving to 3T. 

 

More like 252.

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23 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:


Thank you.  But I’m afraid to share that if you hate hindsight arguments,  you’ll hate many of the discussions and debates around here.  Lots and lots of hindsight.   But that’s the nature of being a fan.   What can I tell you? 

Just like the Carson Wentz trade. I was all for it.   I'm still up in the air.  But as of right now my opinion looks bad, so I will take my lumps on it.   I wasn't on here then so I guess I could have just kept my mouth shut on that LOL.   

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6 hours ago, ChuggaBeer said:

I read this A LOT   Any evidence there was NOT an offer?  Did Autry want to stay here? Or just a better offer elsewhere.   Serious questions, I really don't know.

Autry said he want to stay with team no offer , came back to team with what titans was offering and Ballard thought it was to high let him walk 

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6 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

He brought in Fisher. Rhodes, and Sandiego.  He also extended Doyle and brought back TY and went out and got Houston in the first place.  I think he understands you need vets.  That’s not why he didn’t bring back Houston and Autry.

Hmm , he said out his own mouth that he probably should have kept a vet on d line. Fisher was a bad move sign guy coming of that injury, Rhodes I was on board with didn’t really have other options , sendejo was had to be done after injuries. I was talking about the d line in respects to letting both guys who was up there in sacks on team walk for u proven talent or unreliable guys 

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14 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

I thought Grover was one of the better players on the dline.  Not everyone is a pass rusher.

1T pass rush is not really a thing very often.  They try to collapse the pocket on bull rushes so that the QB has limited options to step up.  Not really trying to sack the QB very often, but it's nice when they do.  For instance Grover led all 1T and 2Ts with 3 sacks and 17 pressures the year before he got his contract.

 

There really is no such thing as a pass rushing 3 down NT.  (1T or 0T)

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