Ballard's Decision to Not Draft Darrisaw...

[NFLfan]

Anyone watching the game? These two QBs are taking a beating. 

[boo2202]

I’m cool with passing on Darrishaw. We needed a pass rusher and think Kwity showed promise this year. Just sucks not having a 1st round pick this year. That 16th pick would be nice to have right about now. If treylon Burks falls to pick 16, think I’ll vomit. He’s exactly what we need for this offense. A Debo Samuel type receiver. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

7 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

It doesn’t look like you and I agree on what Ballard said or meant.  So it would appear harder than it looks.   But you and I didn’t agree in what Irsay said,  or what Reich said.   So we’re 0 for 3 just recently.  
 

No, I don’t think he said he only liked one left tackle.   Those words were not spoken.  That’s your interpretation. 

BTW U know they thought Darrisaw could play Lt. They had to make a choice. I think from when second round on is what he is talking about. There was one I know was mentioned right before colts picked they liked. In hindsight maybe they move up and get Paye and a LT instead of Dayo. But they loved Dayo way to much to pass.

[Dingus McGirt]

Spilled milk.

[Fluke_33]

34 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

Anyone watching the game? These two QBs are taking a beating. 

So far a really good game.  That big run followed up by the int.  I yelled what a game. Lol. 

[NFLfan]

5 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

So far a really good game.  That big run followed up by the int.  I yelled what a game. Lol. 

 Yeah. I saw that. What a pass by Tannehill now (the one caught by Brown).

 

[Fluke_33]

11 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 Yeah. I saw that. What a pass by Tannehill now (the one caught by Brown).

 

This game is just getting better and better

[Nickster]

3 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

Who would u have drafted/brought in at edge then?

They obviously had Paye rated higher.

Freeney took some time.

Freeney had 13 sacks with 9 FF his rookie year.

[hoosierhawk]

4 hours ago, jbaron04 said:

Your honest opinion should Ryan kelly and big Q had made the probowl this year?

I guess crappo OL men for some reason become popular and make the Pro Bowl or is it a popularity contest for all positions.

 

 

 

[jbaron04]

26 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

I guess crappo OL men for some reason become popular and make the Pro Bowl or is it a popularity contest for all positions.

 

 

 

SMH , I watched every colts game this season kelly shouldn’t have made the probowl hard knocks and other circumstances lead to him making it more than his play and I love Q but Q missed a lot of time and was playing hurt most of the year it’s not that he isn’t a probowl player but this year he didn’t play up to that level due to the injuries and he made it because of what he did before not necessarily what he did this year just being honest 

[BProland85]

All I can say is Paye better turn into a force at pass rush for Indy. Or Ballard has some explaining to do. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, BProland85 said:

All I can say is Paye better turn into a force at pass rush for Indy. Or Ballard has some explaining to do. 

Right now I get the feeling he is just going to be a steady run stopper and a solid guy. I hope I am wrong.  He was getting in the backfield quite a bit just didn’t finish. 

[BProland85]

Just now, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Right now I get the feeling he is just going to be a steady run stopper and a solid guy. I hope I am wrong. 

Why does Ballard and this scouting dept. struggle so much with finding a top pass rusher in the draft? They need to look at free agency if they keep striking out drafting one. 

[EastStreet]

9 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  This is a silly argument. Fisher has a long history of performing at a higher level than Leno.

 CASE OVER.

  Fisher was well known by Ballard.

   This look at grades in hindsight is skewed by Darrisaw having Cousins 'protect' him by thinking faster, playing smarter than our clown.

 I'm happy for LENO grading at a career level for his team. His bustout grade was about Fishers career avg.    

 Fisher definitely was having trouble with speed rushers, even after his play started improving. Yip, our staff Will be losing sleep over the LT position. ESPECIALLY if Wentz is the QB and Reich is playcalling. 

 

Case over... ? huh... 

 

To the first bolded above, not really. Not really at all... I'm gonna bet (assuming both stay healthy) that Leno out-grades Fisher in 2022, which would bring them even (years graded higher) since 2015 (when Leno became a starter).... See below grade history... Only 2020 was hands down great year for Fisher, and it is an outlier. He only has 2 years above 75. Leno had 3 (rounding up) before his outlier this year. And their average of grades since 2015 is about even, with Leno grading slightly higher. If I included all of Fisher's years, he'd be even lower... 

 

Also keep in mind that Leno was a 7th rounder (pick 246) and considered a project that would take time, while Fisher was the number one overall pick, and considered a day one impact starter... 

 

Also, to the second bolded.... LOL..... Cousins quicker? You're kidding right. He had a 3.16 time to throw in W18. Wentz had a 2.88, substantially lower, and still got sacked 6 times..... 

 

And this isn't a hindsight thing.... Many were pro-Leno before Fisher was signed, and pro draft-a-LT, and the started. It was a safe assumption that Fisher would struggle this year coming off injury, and his early availability and performance in question... 

 

Year - Leno / Fisher / Darrisaw 

2021 - 81.0 / 68.6 / 71.8 (much better than Fisher's rook season)

2020 - 74.6 / 80.0

2019 - 58.6 / 64.5

2018 - 75.7 / 73.4

2017 - 78.7 / 69.1

2016 - 70.1 / 77.3

2015 - 68.5 / 71.8 (Leno's first year starting was better than Fisher's 1st season starting)

---------------------

2014   DNS / 67.2

2013   NA / 57.8

 

Average of averages 2015-2021 (Fisher's would be even lower if I included 13 and 14)

Leno - 72.5

Fisher - 72.1

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

9 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

Why does Ballard and this scouting dept. struggle so much with finding a top pass rusher in the draft? They need to look at free agency if they keep striking out drafting one. 

Because he skips over college production for traits. Just go get the pass rushers who have done it in college. Paye wasn’t a great pass rusher in college and he is very raw in that department. He has  the dedication and work ethic so we will see. Also college football doesn’t develop them very well so they are also hard to find. I think this defensive coaching staffs pass rush schemes are bad too.

[GoColts8818]

8 hours ago, Colts1324 said:

I’m confused. Paye looks really good. He showed a lot of promise & consistently brought pressure. He just needs to get better at finishing plays. Most rookie pass rushers don’t do AMAZING their first year 

This is just people second guessing because they are still mad how the season ended.  Like I said earlier had Ballard drafted Darrisaw a lot of these same people would be complaining that Ballard didn’t draft an end last year and we would probably have a thread saying “Ballard’s decision not to draft Paye…”

[EastStreet]

8 hours ago, Colts1324 said:

I’m confused. Paye looks really good. He showed a lot of promise & consistently brought pressure. He just needs to get better at finishing plays. Most rookie pass rushers don’t do AMAZING their first year 

I thought he looked great vs the run, and OK pass rushing. He wasn't really consistent in terms of pressures. Only 16 for the year.

 

Didn't make the top 100 in total pressures. Oweh, for instance (in the same draft class), split time with Justin Houston in Baltimore, and had 27 pressures. Ojulari whom a lot on the board liked, also same class had 27 too.  Tryon-Shoyinka 27. Jaelan Phillips 26... Gregory Rousseau 24... 

 

Hope the pass rush catches up to the run D.

9 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

This is just people second guessing because they are still mad how the season ended.  Like I said earlier had Ballard drafted Darrisaw a lot of these same people would be complaining that Ballard didn’t draft an end last year and we would probably have a thread saying “Ballard’s decision not to draft Paye…”

I agree folks are impacted by the way the season ended. Only natural, and happens every year.

But the topic is fair game, and there are certainly debatable aspects of the situation overall. 

[WoolMagnet]

5 hours ago, Nickster said:

Freeney had 13 sacks with 9 FF his rookie year.

I swore it was him with a “slow” start.  I thought he didnt start “gettin it” tilllater in season, but 13 sacks makes that sound wrong.

[WoolMagnet]

9 hours ago, Four2itus said:

I get it...sort of. But the underlying notion cannot be evaluated....until we see the experienced product of both players. Also, how does he know how much value that Ballard saw in Darrisaw?  Chosing Paye does not define how much value...but rather what he saw as the long term value of both in comparison. 

Werent there red flags or questions with Darrisaw?  I thought motivation ir effort were mentioned.  Hard to keep track, maybe i’m wrong.

[NewColtsFan]

18 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

Werent there red flags or questions with Darrisaw?  I thought motivation ir effort were mentioned.  Hard to keep track, maybe i’m wrong.

I think you’re correct.   I don’t think they were deal breakers, but it may have been the reason why Paye was the higher ranked player.   

[Defjamz26]

Grasping at straws here guys. LT and Edge were both needs. I have a feeling that had we went with Darrisaw over Paye, and Paye was tearing it up on another team, some of you would ask why we passed on Paye when we could’ve gotten Fisher cheap in FA and drafted a developmental LT. In hindsight the reali stake was signing Fisher over Leno.

 

Also it should be noted that Darrisaw wouldn’t have made Carson Wentz any better.

[Solid84]

10 hours ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Because he skips over college production for traits. Just go get the pass rushers who have done it in college. Paye wasn’t a great pass rusher in college and he is very raw in that department. He has  the dedication and work ethic so we will see. Also college football doesn’t develop them very well so they are also hard to find. I think this defensive coaching staffs pass rush schemes are bad too.

This! When Ballard does draft after college production it usually pays off - Taylor, Pittman, Leonard, Q. 

[MikeCurtis]

I may be wrong, but I think the Colts FO had a verbal "deal" or at least  a call to gauge his interest, with Fisher before the draft

 

I like Paye, I think we will see some steady improvement.

 

I believe both Paye and Darisaw will be very good players in the long run, so an immediate evaluation on Paye, may not tell the whole story

 

I still think they made the right decision

 

We will see

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MikeCurtis]

3 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Grasping at straws here guys. LT and Edge were both needs. I have a feeling that had we went with Darrisaw over Paye, and Paye was tearing it up on another team, some of you would ask why we passed on Paye when we could’ve gotten Fisher cheap in FA and drafted a developmental LT. In hindsight the reali stake was signing Fisher over Leno.

 

Also it should be noted that Darrisaw wouldn’t have made Carson Wentz any better.

I agree with the first paragraph, but Im not 100% sure on the last line

 

Darrisaw MIGHT have played better than Fisher at pass blocking

 

Wentz WAS getting hit from the left side...........  either a sack or a pressure, or at least a hit when he threw the ball

if your not getting "blasted" you play better

 

Would that LT play have been good enough to get us in the playoffs? .... MAYBE

Win the SB???   Not so much

 

Either way, give Paye a chance to develop (He started to get better as the year went on)

 

Lets either get Fisher healthy and pass protecting better, or bring someone in that can

 

  

[Colt.45]

It was a good decision. The Colts need pass rush. BADLY. 

 

Fisher'd have looked a lot better if the QB made better presnap decisions.

[NFLfan]

10 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

Werent there red flags or questions with Darrisaw?  I thought motivation ir effort were mentioned.  Hard to keep track, maybe i’m wrong.

 

That is irrelevant to what the OP wrote. If Darrisaw had red flags, then yeah, that would contribute to the decision not to draft him. However, the OP is asserting that Ballard was wrong in believing that Darrisaw was not a prototypical LT. The OP went on to make comparisons to show that that reasoning may be flawed. That's all.

 

It seems like many are overreacting and perhaps did not even read what he wrote. That is all I can think of that can explain why members, except a few, are failing to address the OP's point.  

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

That is irrelevant to what the OP wrote. If Darrisaw had red flags, then yeah, that would contribute to the decision not to draft him. However, the OP wrote that the reason that Ballard gave was that he did not believe Darrisaw was a prototypical LT. The OP went on to make comparisons to show that that reasoning may be flawed. That's all.

 

It seems like many are overreacting and perhaps did not even read what he wrote. That is all I can think of that can explain why members except a few are failing to address the OP's point.  

Ballard never said that specifically about Darrisaw. He did say it after the draft about others in the draft. Yes he had effort red flags.

[NFLfan]

5 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Ballard never said that specifically about Darrisaw. He did say it after the draft about others in the draft. 

 

Now this comment, as well as NCF's and a few others, is addressing the OP.  Thanks. 

 

[Scott Pennock]

On 1/22/2022 at 10:48 AM, masterlock said:

I'll preface my remarks by saying I don't dislike Kwity Paye. Great kid, great story, lots of potential. Could very well blossom into a star pass rusher. That said, there's something that just BUGS me about Ballard's stated reason for not drafting a left tackle in 2021--that there was no one who fit the mold of a "prototypical" left tackle. Here's a quick comparison...

 

Measurables:

• Christian Darrisaw: 6'5", 313 lbs., 34.25" arms
• Anthony Castonzo: 6'7", 305 lbs., 34.25" arms
• Eric Fisher: 6'7", 306 lbs., 34.5" arms

 

So, a 2-inch difference in height was the deal-breaker? Really? Or was it some other attribute, like lateral quickness, ability to steer defenders, etc? What glaring reason was there for why Darrisaw didn’t fit the mold of a "prototypical" LT at the NFL level? Most scouts saw him as a LT (including those at Minnesota). When the dust settled in 2021, here's how things shook out...

 

2021 Results (I don't have all the stats because I don't subscribe to PFF):

• Darrisaw: Earned a 71.8 PFF grade, allowed 22 pressures in 11 games, and 1 sack for every 124 snaps played.
• Fisher: Earned a 68.6 PFF grade, allowed 39 pressures in 15 games and 1 sack for every 130 snaps played.

 

And bear in mind, Darrisaw was a freakin' ROOKIE. I realize Fisher was coming off an achilles tear, which maybe affected his ability to play at 100 percent. But that's precisely the point: You take a 30-year old tackle coming off an achilles tear, in the twilight years of his career, over a promising, young prospect who had the measurables, who had only upside, and who would've addressed the second-most important position in football. It just doesn't make sense to me. But hey, what do I know? I'm just some random fan. Feel free to criticize.

He didn't say there weren't prototypical types, he thought there weren't LT types, he thought they were more suited for RT.

 

Either way, hindsight is 20/20 and not a good platform to argue from.

 

On top of that, we drafted the top rated rookie defensive end in Paye. Darrisaw is likely the highest rated rookie LT......that really should be a push because you need both in this league.....

[CR91]

Didn't really watch that much viking football, but didn't Darrisaw miss time this year and was average at best when he did play?

[NFLfan]

17 minutes ago, CR91 said:

Didn't really watch that much viking football, but didn't Darrisaw miss time this year and was average at best when he did play?

 

He was very good in the games he played. Yes, he missed time but also Head Coach Mike Zimmer did not like to start rookies. He waited until the 5th game to start Stefon Diggs and Danielle Hunter who looked great in camp in 2015. I don't believe Justin Jefferson started right away either but I may be wrong.

 

Regardless of that, that was not the OP's point. He was referring to evaluation of the LT. 

 

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

rams gm les snead traded away all their draft picks for proven elite talent vs ballards delayed gratification build by the draft method after 6 years we are waiting for results

[Scott Pennock]

2 hours ago, DEFENSE said:

rams gm les snead traded away all their draft picks for proven elite talent vs ballards delayed gratification build by the draft method after 6 years we are waiting for results

That may be true, but have the Rams won a super bowl using that strategy?

 

No.

[Moosejawcolt]

17 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

That may be true, but have the Rams won a super bowl using that strategy?

 

No.

No but  they have not but they r far more competive  than the one Ballard has constructed 

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

39 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

That may be true, but have the Rams won a super bowl using that strategy?

 

No.

to be seen in year 1

[Scott Pennock]

16 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

No but  they have not but they r far more competive  than the one Ballard has constructed 

So you would trade a couple years of highly competitive (but still not winning crap) ball for long term competitiveness?

 

Let's not forget he's done this with the abrupt retirement at the end the the last preseason game of Andrew Luck, our Franchise QB.  I would say he's maintained a pretty steady ship IN SPITE of that? Has he had any luck with QB's after that? Maybe, maybe not......but how many franchise's go to complete $hit after losing their franchise QB and sit at the bottom of the win column for decades? Most all of them......except for the few that have good front offices and coaching staffs (like us)!

 

Finding a franchise QB is not an easy task and he continues to patch it together (on the rest of the roster) and eventually I would think he'll get it right as he does with most of his picks! 

 

Leaving madden style trades out of this, how would you have done it different, or how would you do it different and not put the team in cap hell?

[Scott Pennock]

16 hours ago, DEFENSE said:

to be seen in year 1

Year one with Stafford - not year one of buying high priced talent.......keep up!

[Stephen]

Probably should have gone wr in 2nd

[Superman]

On 1/23/2022 at 3:38 AM, Defjamz26 said:

Grasping at straws here guys. LT and Edge were both needs. I have a feeling that had we went with Darrisaw over Paye, and Paye was tearing it up on another team, some of you would ask why we passed on Paye when we could’ve gotten Fisher cheap in FA and drafted a developmental LT. In hindsight the reali stake was signing Fisher over Leno.

 

Also it should be noted that Darrisaw wouldn’t have made Carson Wentz any better.

 

Yes.

 

They didn't draft Darrisaw because Paye was available, not because they didn't value LT. 

 

When they signed Fisher, Leno was also still available. Well after the draft. They had a backup plan, if they didn't get a LT in the draft, sign a veteran. I think they picked the wrong one. But that has no bearing on Paye.

 

I also think we're over stating the difference between Darrisaw and Fisher in 2021. Both had their struggles in protection. Darrisaw is a rookie, Fisher wasn't 100% healthy. Fisher was better in the run game. And Darrisaw missed six games.

[Maniac53]

3 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Yes.

 

They didn't draft Darrisaw because Paye was available, not because they didn't value LT. 

 

When they signed Fisher, Leno was also still available. Well after the draft. They had a backup plan, if they didn't get a LT in the draft, sign a veteran. I think they picked the wrong one. But that has no bearing on Paye.

 

I also think we're over stating the difference between Darrisaw and Fisher in 2021. Both had their struggles in protection. Darrisaw is a rookie, Fisher wasn't 100% healthy. Fisher was better in the run game. And Darrisaw missed six games.

Well said