Colts positive thread

[2006Coltsbestever]

I wish we could start the season tomorrow and play Tennessee on opening day.

[2006Coltsbestever]

On 1/22/2022 at 9:49 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

All of us Colts fans hated the way the season ended, so to cheer everyone up, here is a look at what our franchise has accomplished since 1984 being in Indy.

 

SB Championships

2006

 

AFC Championships

2006, 2009

 

AFC Title Game Appearances

1995, 2003, 2006, 2009, 2014

 

Division Championships

1987 (AFC East), 1999 (AFC East), 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2013, 2014

 

QB's we have had

Jim Harbaugh (1994-1997)

Peyton Manning (1998-2010) didn't play in 2011

Andrew Luck (2012-2016, 2018) didn't play in 2017

Philip Rivers (2020)

 

RB's we have had

Eric Dickerson (1987-1991)

Marshall Faulk (1994-1998)

Edge James (1999-2005)

Jonathan Taylor (2020 and 2021) - in his prime now

 

-Just remember the great times and we will see what happens this offseason. 

 

Think of how Vikings fans feel, sorry @NFLfan losing in 4 SB's = 1969, 1973, 1974, and 1976 + losing in the 1998 NFC Title Game with a loaded team. Think of how Bills fans feel, losing 4 straight SB's from 1990-1993. Imagine Dolphin fan from 1983-1999 having Dan Marino who is a top 10 QB of all-time and winning 0 SB's. Things could be worse. We will be ok folks. Isray, Ballard, and Frank are on the right the path, we just need a franchise QB.

Now that we have QB Matt Ryan, I would also like to add the very good to great WR's we have had here in Indianapolis:

 

Bill Brooks (1986-1992)

Marvin Harrison (1996-2008)

Reggie Wayne (2001-2014)

TY Hilton (2012-2021)

 

Pittman is on his way to being very good if not great,

 

- I pleaded in here that Ballard trade for Matt Ryan, now I am asking him to trade for Bradberry. I know he can make it happen, he knows what he is doing. 

[Moosejawcolt]

17 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Leonard was phenomenal this year in TOs. Gimpy for at least half the year, he himself early forecasted he would focus on turnovers. I agree some of the INTs were right at him, but you simply can't ignore the *.

 

He was easily our best player on D. Take away his INTs if you want. Happy to debate. Come at me.

 

It's a quandary. Does the title of thread create new rules? Do OP creators define their own rules? Interesting mod Qs. At minimum, it should be board defined and consistent. Does a "Colts Negative Thread" prevent posters from disagreeing with negative thoughts in that particular thread?

 

Just making you (and the other mods) think.  

Lol...Yes I am a little hard on Leonard and Nelson and they r much better than I say they r. My negativity comes from the fact that we have no money tied up in an elite position. I am hoping that will change.

[rock8591]

Other than QB, there is no such thing as 'positional value'. It's a social construct, said on most message boards but is not a legal-technical term in actual football.

 

 

[ChuggaBeer]

Congratulations! You've increased your rank to Active Roster!      I received a participation trophy just now.    That's positive right?

 

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[PrincetonTiger]

3 minutes ago, ChuggaBeer said:

Congratulations! You've increased your rank to Active Roster!      I received a participation trophy just now.    That's positive right?

 

Look at me go!!!

Congrats 

  Keep Chugging 

[Chucklez]

14 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Lol...Yes I am a little hard on Leonard and Nelson and they r much better than I say they r. My negativity comes from the fact that we have no money tied up in an elite position. I am hoping that will change.

An Elite position is by definition a player in a position that greatly impacts the game for you.

You gonna tell me Leonard hasnt single handedly won us games? You telling me he doesnt impact the game? Leonard makes his position an elite position.

 

Equally with Nelson.... before we brought him in, we had consistently one of the worst lines in the NFL.... for years! As soon as he is in, we are one of the top rushing teams in the league.... consistently.... thats what i call an impact on the game. He makes LG an elite position for us.

Im sick of people saying we are elite in the wrong spots..... There is no such thing as elite in the wrong spot... Elite players make elite plays and win you games... thats what those guys do for us. End of story.

[Four2itus]

2 hours ago, Chucklez said:

An Elite position is by definition a player in a position that greatly impacts the game for you.

You gonna tell me Leonard hasnt single handedly won us games? You telling me he doesnt impact the game? Leonard makes his position an elite position.

 

Equally with Nelson.... before we brought him in, we had consistently one of the worst lines in the NFL.... for years! As soon as he is in, we are one of the top rushing teams in the league.... consistently.... thats what i call an impact on the game. He makes LG an elite position for us.

Im sick of people saying we are elite in the wrong spots..... There is no such thing as elite in the wrong spot... Elite players make elite plays and win you games... thats what those guys do for us. End of story.

I endorse this above post as elite commentary....

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Four2itus said:

I endorse this above post as elite commentary....

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 hours ago, Chucklez said:

An Elite position is by definition a player in a position that greatly impacts the game for you.

You gonna tell me Leonard hasnt single handedly won us games? You telling me he doesnt impact the game? Leonard makes his position an elite position.

 

Equally with Nelson.... before we brought him in, we had consistently one of the worst lines in the NFL.... for years! As soon as he is in, we are one of the top rushing teams in the league.... consistently.... thats what i call an impact on the game. He makes LG an elite position for us.

Im sick of people saying we are elite in the wrong spots..... There is no such thing as elite in the wrong spot... Elite players make elite plays and win you games... thats what those guys do for us. End of story.

There are always outliers and Leonard and Nelson are. When people say you should never draft a Guard, RB, or LB in the top 10 it makes me laugh. In hindsight I am sure a team wishes they would've took Taylor in the top 5 - Nelson was the perfect pick.

[stitches]

3 hours ago, Chucklez said:

An Elite position is by definition a player in a position that greatly impacts the game for you.

You gonna tell me Leonard hasnt single handedly won us games? You telling me he doesnt impact the game? Leonard makes his position an elite position.

 

Equally with Nelson.... before we brought him in, we had consistently one of the worst lines in the NFL.... for years! As soon as he is in, we are one of the top rushing teams in the league.... consistently.... thats what i call an impact on the game. He makes LG an elite position for us.

Im sick of people saying we are elite in the wrong spots..... There is no such thing as elite in the wrong spot... Elite players make elite plays and win you games... thats what those guys do for us. End of story.

You should always pick an elite player at any position over mediocre players at the highest value positions... but... that's not comparing same for same. The question is not does DL impact winning? Of course he does. The question is does he impact winning at the same level as a top 5 EDGE or top 5 WR or top 5 CB? And the answer is quite easily - no. This doesn't make DL any less of a player. I love DL and I've loved him since we drafted him and we probably cannot find a better player to spend our money on... but make no mistake - we are indeed strong at the positions of least value on a football field - LB, IOL, RB... And there are far worse options than having strong players at positions of low value. You can have no strengths at all... then you will be the Lions or the Jets. The very fact that we have DL, Q and Taylor puts us in that .500 range. They are valuable players. They do bring wins. Just not as valuable as the top players at other positions. If you let me choose top 5 QB, top 5 WR and top 5 EDGE over them, I'm picking those over our strong positions. 

 

As a final sentiment I want to point out that the problem of this team is not the presence of Q, Leonard or Taylor. The problem of a team is never the strongest players on the team. The problem is that we have noone even close to their level at the most important positions in football. If we had a top QB, top receiving weapons... top pass rushers, noone would care that we are spending top resources at those other positions too. The problem is we don't have those positions taken care of and people are redirecting their discontent toward the wrong targets.

[2006Coltsbestever]

15 hours ago, ChuggaBeer said:

Congratulations! You've increased your rank to Active Roster!      I received a participation trophy just now.    That's positive right?

 

Look at me go!!!

[GoColts8818]

18 hours ago, ChuggaBeer said:

Congratulations! You've increased your rank to Active Roster!      I received a participation trophy just now.    That's positive right?

 

Look at me go!!!

[John Hammonds]

On 3/28/2022 at 5:22 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I wish we could start the season tomorrow and play Tennessee on opening day.

I want to play in Jacksonville opening day.  Wanna get some revenge right outta the gate.

[Chucklez]

8 hours ago, stitches said:

You should always pick an elite player at any position over mediocre players at the highest value positions... but... that's not comparing same for same. The question is not does DL impact winning? Of course he does. The question is does he impact winning at the same level as a top 5 EDGE or top 5 WR or top 5 CB? And the answer is quite easily - no. This doesn't make DL any less of a player. I love DL and I've loved him since we drafted him and we probably cannot find a better player to spend our money on... but make no mistake - we are indeed strong at the positions of least value on a football field - LB, IOL, RB... And there are far worse options than having strong players at positions of low value. You can have no strengths at all... then you will be the Lions or the Jets. The very fact that we have DL, Q and Taylor puts us in that .500 range. They are valuable players. They do bring wins. Just not as valuable as the top players at other positions. If you let me choose top 5 QB, top 5 WR and top 5 EDGE over them, I'm picking those over our strong positions. 

 

As a final sentiment I want to point out that the problem of this team is not the presence of Q, Leonard or Taylor. The problem of a team is never the strongest players on the team. The problem is that we have noone even close to their level at the most important positions in football. If we had a top QB, top receiving weapons... top pass rushers, noone would care that we are spending top resources at those other positions too. The problem is we don't have those positions taken care of and people are redirecting their discontent toward the wrong targets.

Whilst i agree mostly with what you are saying, how did having Luck, Mathis and Wayne work out for us compared to the current team? Not much better... no OL and luck got killed and we had no running game.

 

Our linebackers were constantly made a mockery of,  we got dunked over the middle and run all over and couldn't tackle anyone. 

 

My point is your elite players are what make your teams strengths and win you games. You have to be good all around to win championships,  but just because you have a WR and DE, doesnt mean you're automatically better than a team with an elite OL and LB.

[EastStreet]

On 3/28/2022 at 5:45 PM, Moosejawcolt said:

Lol...Yes I am a little hard on Leonard and Nelson and they r much better than I say they r. My negativity comes from the fact that we have no money tied up in an elite position. I am hoping that will change.

It's nice to see you fall on your sword. 

Both guys are the hearts of their areas.

Not saying things couldn't be constructed better from a roster perspective, but as things are, fools effort to try and diminish their input. 

[Moosejawcolt]

16 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

It's nice to see you fall on your sword. 

Both guys are the hearts of their areas.

Not saying things couldn't be constructed better from a roster perspective, but as things are, fools effort to try and diminish their input. 

Trust me I  am use to falling on my sword a lot at my house. My wife is right even when she's wrong lol.

[EastStreet]

7 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Trust me I  am use to falling on my sword a lot at my house. My wife is right even when she's wrong lol.

Dude, happy wife, happy life. 

It's not that hard. 

Cheers.

[Flash7]

On 3/29/2022 at 6:44 PM, Chucklez said:

 Whilst i agree mostly with what you are saying, how did having Luck, Mathis and Wayne work out for us compared to the current team? Not much better... no OL and luck got killed and we had no running game.

 

My point is your elite players are what make your teams strengths and win you games. You have to be good all around to win championships,  but just because you have a WR and DE, doesnt mean you're automatically better than a team with an elite OL and LB.

Luck, Mathis, and Wayne were hands down better. Not even debatable. As you mentioned, we had a horrible O-line, no running game, and a horrible defense. Yet, because we had players in the most important positions, they were able to make it to the playoffs, even the AFC championship game. Now compare that with our more recent team which boasted 8 pro bowlers.

 

Comparing a WR and DE to entire O-line and a LB is not a fair comparison, is it? A fair comparison would be WR and DE compared to LG and LB.

[2006Coltsbestever]

10 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Trust me I  am use to falling on my sword a lot at my house. My wife is right even when she's wrong lol.

Once you bring up Leonard and Nelson around her, she will be doing this 

[Chucklez]

3 hours ago, Flash7 said:

Luck, Mathis, and Wayne were hands down better. Not even debatable. As you mentioned, we had a horrible O-line, no running game, and a horrible defense. Yet, because we had players in the most important positions, they were able to make it to the playoffs, even the AFC championship game. Now compare that with our more recent team which boasted 8 pro bowlers.

 

Comparing a WR and DE to entire O-line and a LB is not a fair comparison, is it? A fair comparison would be WR and DE compared to LG and LB.

Luck's OL had Castanzo and Mewhort on it that year as well as Gosder Cherilus, who was decent enough when he was healthy.

And we had Jerrell Freeman and Dqwell JAckson at LB that year. not exactly poor players... But add Nelson to that line and Leonard to the defense, and remove Wayne and Mathis, im fairly confident they still reach the AFFCG.

 

[Goatface Killah]

On 3/29/2022 at 7:48 AM, Chucklez said:

An Elite position is by definition a player in a position that greatly impacts the game for you.

You gonna tell me Leonard hasnt single handedly won us games? You telling me he doesnt impact the game? Leonard makes his position an elite position.

 

Equally with Nelson.... before we brought him in, we had consistently one of the worst lines in the NFL.... for years! As soon as he is in, we are one of the top rushing teams in the league.... consistently.... thats what i call an impact on the game. He makes LG an elite position for us.

Im sick of people saying we are elite in the wrong spots..... There is no such thing as elite in the wrong spot... Elite players make elite plays and win you games... thats what those guys do for us. End of story.

They are just regurgitating stuff theyve heard draft pundits say and lost the entire context of them talking about using really high picks in the draft on certain "premium" positions. Nobody talks about positional value below Round 1 of the NFL draft or when talking contracts. 

 

Yeah Jalen Ramsey might be more valuable than Darius Leonard, maybe, but how many other corners are? 

 

Sure Tyreek Hill might be more valuable than Quenton Nelson as long as you have a great QB, but how many receivers are? Like maybe 10?

 

Its not a blanket statement, and it only applies in a select few scenarios, but they talk like its gospel.

[2006Coltsbestever]

On 3/29/2022 at 4:48 AM, Chucklez said:

An Elite position is by definition a player in a position that greatly impacts the game for you.

You gonna tell me Leonard hasnt single handedly won us games? You telling me he doesnt impact the game? Leonard makes his position an elite position.

 

Equally with Nelson.... before we brought him in, we had consistently one of the worst lines in the NFL.... for years! As soon as he is in, we are one of the top rushing teams in the league.... consistently.... thats what i call an impact on the game. He makes LG an elite position for us.

Im sick of people saying we are elite in the wrong spots..... There is no such thing as elite in the wrong spot... Elite players make elite plays and win you games... thats what those guys do for us. End of story.

I agree with this. There are outliers and how some don't see this is amazing. That would be like someone saying no way I would take Barry Sanders in the top 3 because he is a RB.

[2006Coltsbestever]

28 minutes ago, Goatface Killah said:

They are just regurgitating stuff theyve heard draft pundits say and lost the entire context of them talking about using really high picks in the draft on certain "premium" positions. Nobody talks about positional value below Round 1 of the NFL draft or when talking contracts. 

 

Yeah Jalen Ramsey might be more valuable than Darius Leonard, maybe, but how many other corners are? 

 

Sure Tyreek Hill might be more valuable than Quenton Nelson as long as you have a great QB, but how many receivers are? Like maybe 10?

 

Its not a blanket statement, and it only applies in a select few scenarios, but they talk like its gospel.

Most will tell you that DE is much more valuable than OG. Who has helped their team out more, Nelson or Chubb in Denver? Since Chubb has been drafted they haven't made the playoffs and have had a losing season every year. With Nelson we have made it twice and really should've last year = 3 winning seasons (9-8 last year). 4 years worth of sample size = 2018-2021. 

[Goatface Killah]

22 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Most will tell you that DE is much more valuable than OG. Who has helped their team out more, Nelson or Chubb in Denver? Since Chubb has been drafted they haven't made the playoffs and have had a losing season every year. With Nelson we have made it twice and really should've last year = 3 winning seasons (9-8 last year). 4 years worth of sample size = 2018-2021. 

Right, Chubb is a good player but not nearly as impactful as Nelson has been.

 

We are much like the Broncos in that we are a really good team struggling to find a long term solution at QB.

 

The Broncos have drafted more "high value" positions at the top of the draft than the Colts have. The Broncos have 2-3 really good young receivers, they drafted a TE really high, they took Chubb early and have a really good secondary. They have even hit on these picks at a high ratr. But they still havent been as good as the Colts who have taken a counter approach.

 

Why?

 

The QB is like 75% of the equation and we have done slightly better than they have at that position over the last 3-4 years. Thats why. 

 

QB is so valuable it gives all other positions their value.

 

Got a QB? He needs a top receiver! And a LT!

 

In a division with a great QB? You need pass rush and corners to deal with that! 

 

Truth is, thats the only reason people feel those positions carry more value in the first place. 

 

 

 

 

[MPStack]

32 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Most will tell you that DE is much more valuable than OG. Who has helped their team out more, Nelson or Chubb in Denver? Since Chubb has been drafted they haven't made the playoffs and have had a losing season every year. With Nelson we have made it twice and really should've last year = 3 winning seasons (9-8 last year). 4 years worth of sample size = 2018-2021. 

[NFLfan]

Kenny Moore II (@KennyKennyMoe3) Tweeted:
it’s bigger than me. https://t.co/wfS6CXy4dR

 

[John Hammonds]

When I think of the Colts coming into the 2022 season after the horrendous collapse of the end of last season, I'm reminded of a quote from the West Wing.  President Bartlett has just accepted a joint censure for lying about his illness during the last campaign, while delivering the State of the Union and kicking off the new campaign.  Abby Bartlett calls it defeat.  And you don't take the school bully out to lunch after he takes your lunch money.  Later in the show, Josh Lyman makes a statement of courage and intent:

"Anybody here think this president can't deliver this?  Can't turn this around?  I still got my lunch money."

 

We still have the best running back in the league.  A great offensive line.  An opportunistic defense with some great players.  And we've now added a very good quarterback.  You think we can't turn this around?  We still got our lunch money.

[Boondoggle]

On 4/9/2022 at 9:02 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I agree with this. There are outliers and how some don't see this is amazing. That would be like someone saying no way I would take Barry Sanders in the top 3 because he is a RB.

I am of the mind that the RB position has done some damage to themselves with contracts.  The last RB to "reset the RB market" was Gurley and a year later he was a shadow of his former self and the team got burned.  With RB I think the current thought process is pick them where you need to, but go into it knowing you don't want to pay them when that contract comes up.  So in a draft top 5 type decision making matrix you'd better be considering shelf life if the other options potentially can play for you for a number of years longer on average.

 

Once you find a good RB it probably takes some discipline to not pay him.  Look at the Colts with Taylor for example.  He's going to win you a lot of games while under a cheap contract, then the team will need to make a call on whether they want to tie up money on him vice just drafting another RB and spending that money somewhere else like say OL where the pass game benefits too.  He's got two seasons of team control left.  So chances are the Colts will be hearing rumblings from his representation and that pressure will start to re-sign him.

 

Taylor btw is a great kid and all.  Supremely talented and a strong locker room type.  But he's going to represent a business decision because of that position he plays.  You gotta look at his insane production at college, then over his first contract, and ask yourself honestly what's left in that tank.  How many years.  Then try to get him to sign something both sides can be happy with, which, we'll see if they can get that done.  The business side of this league really sucks, things are better now than they were for fans with players moving, but the old days of teams having control did at least favor longer relationships with favored players.  

[Four2itus]

45 minutes ago, Boondoggle said:

Taylor btw is a great kid and all.  Supremely talented and a strong locker room type.  But he's going to represent a business decision because of that position he plays.  You gotta look at his insane production at college, then over his first contract, and ask yourself honestly what's left in that tank.  How many years.  Then try to get him to sign something both sides can be happy with, which, we'll see if they can get that done.  The business side of this league really sucks, things are better now than they were for fans with players moving, but the old days of teams having control did at least favor longer relationships with favored players.  

I feel that RB's should have one year less on their rookie deals because of this very thing. 

[Four2itus]

The Colts had a lead in 15 NFL games last season (tied for second most in the league)

[Boondoggle]

10 hours ago, Four2itus said:

I feel that RB's should have one year less on their rookie deals because of this very thing. 

Interesting suggestion there and I don't disagree.  Where you run into issues though is a guy like Deebo Samuel who gets rotated through the backfield in scheme.  But I'm sure they could come up with some way of identifying RB.

[Four2itus]

11 hours ago, Boondoggle said:

Interesting suggestion there and I don't disagree.  Where you run into issues though is a guy like Deebo Samuel who gets rotated through the backfield in scheme.  But I'm sure they could come up with some way of identifying RB.

Yes, I thought of that. Perhaps minimum carries at the position. Another angle in the opposite side of the coin would be to set a limit on carries per year or total up to the one year short point......to keep teams from riding the kids into the ground before they get that one big contract. I know....issues with every suggestion, but at this juncture, RB's are getting a lesser opportunity than other positions at getting that second contract. 

[NFLfan]

On 4/12/2022 at 9:45 PM, Four2itus said:

The Colts had a lead in 15 NFL games last season (tied for second most in the league)

 

Who was first? The Vikings have to be up there too. 

[AwesomeAustin]

So after signing Gilmore, I think the team is without any holes In our starting line up.  Great job of Ballard allowing us to truly go BPA in the draft. After we see how the draft falls we can finish off any other depth concerns with last phase of FA and roster cuts. 
 

 

[Four2itus]

[Yoshinator]

15 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

Nice! This defense has the potential to be great this season! 

[AwesomeAustin]

1 hour ago, Four2itus said:

Well, I think Grigson and Pagano owe Ballard a thank you.  Finally built the monster they talked about. 

[BornHoosier]

On 4/15/2022 at 7:39 PM, Four2itus said:

If CB and staff nail this draft with Offense Playmakers, We will be hosting the Lombardi MARK MY WORD!!!! 

[BornHoosier]

On 4/15/2022 at 8:47 PM, AwesomeAustin said:

Well, I think Grigson and Pagano owe Ballard a thank you.  Finally built the monster they talked about. 

Monster not quite built yet, need a couple offense weapons to complete the MONSTER!!!!  TBD