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PPF: Secondary - Colts #16


EastStreet
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6 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Interesting... So a guy (RYS) that many loved to poo poo during an injury riddled 2020, was top 20 in coverage this year (he also was top 10 the last half of 2019).....

So if RYS is top 20, and so is Rodgers..... and Kenny is good when he stays in the slot/box.....

 

What's that say about our Safeties .... And pretty sure Sendejo was the best in pass D grades lol... Sendejo was our only Safety ranked inside the top 50.... Blackmon was 58th, and Willis was 62nd.

 

 

16. INDIANAPOLIS COLTS

Two of Indianapolis' outside cornerbacks earned  top-20 coverage grades this season: Rock Ya-Sin and Isaiah Rodgers. They each produced coverage grades above 70.0 for the season.

 

Ya-Sin made his best plays on his few snaps in press-man, while Rodgers' top moments came in off-zone when racking up stops.

 

Ya-Sin's 2020 coverage grade was over 20 points lower than his 2021 mark, and Rodgers played just 38 NFL coverage snaps entering the season, so this wasn’t expected.

 

  Thank you East for this info and a topic worth discussing.

   So, with the much ballywhoed Autry & Houston terrorizing QB's, Rock was 20 pts worse!

   Rock recently said something about his mental approach changing. No doubt experience, understanding better your opponent, allows for calmness while under duress. We, and the refs could see that he wasn't quickly getting beat and grabbing. The switch was tripped, the light came on.

 And our opponents went elsewhere to beat our D. 

  Rodgers is picking up the mental side quickly. And he is scrappy, and a good tackler for his size. CB will be looking for another CB in the draft. GL!

  

 Watching the playoffs i see safeties making plays on the ball, and hitting right after the ball gets there. Hmmm! Reminds me of EB playing Hooker 25 yards deep and Hooker getting credit for them not throwing at him. GAG!

 It only took old man Sendejo a few games to get comfortable and aggressive. No doubt all that experience (think Adams) allowed him to read and quickly attack. Our D had a couple fun games when he got going.

 And we did get to see some good plays from Blackmon. He was attacking because of excellent reads. I wish he had 10 more lbs of bulk.

  We just have to get much better safety play. They have to be able to play smarter, and not as deep. And yes we know our 4 man rush helps this. lol

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8 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Interesting... So a guy (RYS) that many loved to poo poo during an injury riddled 2020, was top 20 in coverage this year (he also was top 10 the last half of 2019).....

So if RYS is top 20, and so is Rodgers..... and Kenny is good when he stays in the slot/box.....

 

What's that say about our Safeties .... And pretty sure Sendejo was the best in pass D grades lol... Sendejo was our only Safety ranked inside the top 50.... Blackmon was 58th, and Willis was 62nd.

 

 

16. INDIANAPOLIS COLTS

Two of Indianapolis' outside cornerbacks earned  top-20 coverage grades this season: Rock Ya-Sin and Isaiah Rodgers. They each produced coverage grades above 70.0 for the season.

 

Ya-Sin made his best plays on his few snaps in press-man, while Rodgers' top moments came in off-zone when racking up stops.

 

Ya-Sin's 2020 coverage grade was over 20 points lower than his 2021 mark, and Rodgers played just 38 NFL coverage snaps entering the season, so this wasn’t expected.

I think it says we have bad safety play both pre and post injuries.  A lot of us, including you IIRC, were concerned with that before this season. 

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Confirms what we saw all year. Could also be Matt Eberflus changing things up after Reich made that "would be nice to get some sticky man coverage to get time for our rushers to get to the QB" statement (I think it was after we gave up 30 points to Jets, not sure??) with a good combination of man and zone. Then we reverted to our cushy zone with Rhodes trailing the Jaguars best WR (probably only one guy Lawrence trusted since pre-season, Marvin Jones) pretty much all day in a must win situation. 

 

Odum was the only safety that had any INTs during the year, would that be an accurate statement? Or were there others? I like what Rodgers brings to the table.

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I’m going to keep saying this all offseason.  The pieces are there.  We don’t really need to do addition by subtraction.  We need a true free safety and Blackmon can play SS and Willis can be the 3rd box safety.  I still think we should add a top corner in FA if one makes sense.  Could also understand signing a FS instead.  Won’t take much to move this group up into the top 12.  10% more is all we need nearly across the board. We have a good team Colts fans!!

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RYS just needed to gain some experience and cut down on being handsy.   He really won me over when he had that body slam tackle on a receiver.  He got flagged for it but man did it show his toughness and striking ability.

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9 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Interesting... So a guy (RYS) that many loved to poo poo during an injury riddled 2020, was top 20 in coverage this year (he also was top 10 the last half of 2019).....

So if RYS is top 20, and so is Rodgers..... and Kenny is good when he stays in the slot/box.....

 

What's that say about our Safeties .... And pretty sure Sendejo was the best in pass D grades lol... Sendejo was our only Safety ranked inside the top 50.... Blackmon was 58th, and Willis was 62nd.

 

 

16. INDIANAPOLIS COLTS

Two of Indianapolis' outside cornerbacks earned  top-20 coverage grades this season: Rock Ya-Sin and Isaiah Rodgers. They each produced coverage grades above 70.0 for the season.

 

Ya-Sin made his best plays on his few snaps in press-man, while Rodgers' top moments came in off-zone when racking up stops.

 

Ya-Sin's 2020 coverage grade was over 20 points lower than his 2021 mark, and Rodgers played just 38 NFL coverage snaps entering the season, so this wasn’t expected.

If we can a FS like Marcus Williams(Saints FA) it would help us out tremendously...I would like to see us find CB depth to replace Rhodes he has to go or maybe transition to S. I like Rogers opposite RYS but he is small and valuable for STs. He should be depth at CB over starter. Maybe we can get a vet DL to help free up Paye and Buckner. If we do that and land a great FS our D will be dirty...

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4 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

I’m going to keep saying this all offseason.  The pieces are there.  We don’t really need to do addition by subtraction.  We need a true free safety and Blackmon can play SS and Willis can be the 3rd box safety.  I still think we should add a top corner in FA if one makes sense.  Could also understand signing a FS instead.  Won’t take much to move this group up into the top 12.  10% more is all we need nearly across the board. We have a good team Colts fans!!

I've been saying since day 1 that Blackmon should be a SS, then use Willis almost like Geathers a few years ago, or a hybrid LB in dime packages.  A true FS would be very nice.

 

I'm a huge Rodgers fan.  Rock was solid this year, and my favorite thing in his development was that he seemed to not let momentum from bad plays carry over like he did last year. 

 

I'd like to see us add both a FS and CB, with a true FS being a higher priority for me.

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RYS' issues in 2020 were deep ball coverage when asked to play Man, not necessarily shorter routes.  In 2021, my eye says that he was not asked to play so much deep Man, thank you Flus for doing the smart thing and playing more soft zone.  RYS is a solid corner in a zone scheme, or any scheme that doesn't test his long speed, but probably still the #2 corner.

 

Rodgers is a keeper.  A little small for tacking in a zone based coverage but he's better at pure coverage now than Rhodes is now.  He has also graded better each week from the past week, nearly without exception, IIRC.  Such steady improvement is a great thing to see and kind of rare.  Also, he was drafted with kind of a throw away pick in the 6th round, so its not like Ballard had this great vision.

 

Not sure what to say about Moore.  Didn't seem to have the mojo that he has had in the past.  

 

Given the corner situation, Ideally I'd like to see Moore's salary cap number applied to a new FA signing #1 corner, and push Rodgers over to slot.  That would be the best use of cap dollars, IMO.  I think that would also be the best pure coverage unit.  My concern would be Rodgers size and ability to contest catches against bigger slot receivers.  Could have some games where he gets picked on a lot, given the wrong match up.

 

Safeties have been an issue.  Willis is a 34 box safety.  That's clear, and its time to move on.  The idea of playing 3 safeties and different coverages isn't going to work because to do that a secondary needs players with versatility, more so than the calling the right personnel package and the right scheming at the right time. 

 

In general, the NFL is trending the wrong way on this, Too much chess playing from the bench and not enough reliance on players making the right plays at the right time.  If they are limited role players, they won't be able to make the right plays at the right time on the field if the opposing QB is smart enough to counter the bench's chess moves by scanning the field in the last 15 seconds of the play clock.  We fail against good offenses because of this, not because the bench calling needs to get better, IMO.

 

Too early to tell about Blackmon.  Showed flashes as a rookie but may have hit the rookie wall later in the season.  This year was a mess with injuries all over the secondary to start the season, no pass rush with the loss of Autry and Houston, and then Blackmon himself not being able to play and gain experience.  I wouldn't rely on the 2021 data for much of anything pertaining to Blackmon.

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4 hours ago, chad72 said:

Then we reverted to our cushy zone with Rhodes trailing the Jaguars best WR (probably only one guy Lawrence trusted since pre-season, Marvin Jones) pretty much all day in a must win situation. 

Rhodes was out with the hammy. It was Moore on Marvin Jones most of the day.

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11 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  Thank you East for this info and a topic worth discussing.

   So, with the much ballywhoed Autry & Houston terrorizing QB's, Rock was 20 pts worse!

   Rock recently said something about his mental approach changing. No doubt experience, understanding better your opponent, allows for calmness while under duress. We, and the refs could see that he wasn't quickly getting beat and grabbing. The switch was tripped, the light came on.

 And our opponents went elsewhere to beat our D. 

  Rodgers is picking up the mental side quickly. And he is scrappy, and a good tackler for his size. CB will be looking for another CB in the draft. GL!

  

 Watching the playoffs i see safeties making plays on the ball, and hitting right after the ball gets there. Hmmm! Reminds me of EB playing Hooker 25 yards deep and Hooker getting credit for them not throwing at him. GAG!

 It only took old man Sendejo a few games to get comfortable and aggressive. No doubt all that experience (think Adams) allowed him to read and quickly attack. Our D had a couple fun games when he got going.

 And we did get to see some good plays from Blackmon. He was attacking because of excellent reads. I wish he had 10 more lbs of bulk.

  We just have to get much better safety play. They have to be able to play smarter, and not as deep. And yes we know our 4 man rush helps this. lol

Rock's down year in 2020 was clearly impacted by injuries early, mid, and late season. Guy was in an out all year. 

 

What is interesting to me, is last year, Rock performed best in zone, and this year, easily best in man. 

 

Blackmon has always been fine vs the run going back to college. Not worried about weight. What he has always struggled with is coverage. 

 

Sendejo has always been a big hitter, but his passer rating allowed was great, and surprised the hell out of me. 

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9 hours ago, Nickster said:

I think it says we have bad safety play both pre and post injuries.  A lot of us, including you IIRC, were concerned with that before this season. 

Yes I was. I was very happy with Sendejo's play though. 

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8 hours ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

If we can a FS like Marcus Williams(Saints FA) it would help us out tremendously...I would like to see us find CB depth to replace Rhodes he has to go or maybe transition to S. I like Rogers opposite RYS but he is small and valuable for STs. He should be depth at CB over starter. Maybe we can get a vet DL to help free up Paye and Buckner. If we do that and land a great FS our D will be dirty...

 

I love Rodgers, and he's surpassed my expectations already. The size thing still worries me. 

Rhodes got killed by injury this year. I'd like to bring him back as depth though. 

Carrie also killed by injury, and never got back to form.

I think we need a quality FA CB or early (2R) draft pick.

 

And yup, FS too. 

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14 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I love Rodgers, and he's surpassed my expectations already. The size thing still worries me. 

Rhodes got killed by injury this year. I'd like to bring him back as depth though. 

Carrie also killed by injury, and never got back to form.

I think we need a quality FA CB or early (2R) draft pick.

 

And yup, FS too. 

When Dungy ran the Zone scheme we had Bethea, and then we had Adams. It's really hard to run zones based Ds without a ball hawk FS. I feel like all our current S's play like SSs and lack coverage skills. Blackmon is Willis Lite lol.

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3 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

When Dungy ran the Zone scheme we had Bethea, and then we had Adams. It's really hard to run zones based Ds without a ball hawk FS. I feel like all our current S's play like SSs and lack coverage skills. Blackmon is Willis Lite lol.

Blackmon has big hit capability, just isn't very good in being disciplined in coverage. Over bites on the run. 

Willis just lacks the ability to go vertical. 

I think Blackmon would be more than fine at SS. 

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1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

Blackmon has big hit capability, just isn't very good in being disciplined in coverage. Over bites on the run. 

Willis just lacks the ability to go vertical. 

I think Blackmon would be more than fine at SS. 

If the Saints don't lock down Marcus Williams he would be a great FS to sign in FA.

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3 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Just not sure Ballard will sign up for 10+M/year for a FS

It's more important for our scheme than people realize. Our D is great FS and solid DL vet from elite. One good DL vet to rotate with Lewis and Dayo will free up Paye and Buckner. I think we need to get a little more creative with blitzes too. 

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9 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

It's more important for our scheme than people realize. Our D is great FS and solid DL vet from elite. One good DL vet to rotate with Lewis and Dayo will free up Paye and Buckner. I think we need to get a little more creative with blitzes too. 

 

IDK. I'm all for improving FS. And I want to. 

 

I just think we need scheme tweaks more than anything. More blitzing and stunting up front (not near league low), and less cushion and less coverage variation in the secondary. 

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4 hours ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

If the Saints don't lock down Marcus Williams he would be a great FS to sign in FA.


He’s also going to be expensive.   I think every player you’d love to sign are all $10 mill and higher type guys.   I don’t think we have the budget for anyone like that. 

Im sorry, I don’t like to always be the guy with bad news.   I’m just trying to be realistic.  

 

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4 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:


He’s also going to be expensive.   I think every player you’d love to sign are all $10 mill and higher type guys.   I don’t think we have the budget for anyone like that. 

Im sorry, I don’t like to always be the guy with bad news.   I’m just trying to be realistic.  

 

I just think we need a league average Coverage FS.  Just a legit starter.  I don’t know anything about other teams’ personnel, but I wouldn’t think you’d have to break the bank on a guy like this.

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On 1/20/2022 at 12:37 AM, EastStreet said:

Interesting... So a guy (RYS) that many loved to poo poo during an injury riddled 2020, was top 20 in coverage this year (he also was top 10 the last half of 2019).....

So if RYS is top 20, and so is Rodgers..... and Kenny is good when he stays in the slot/box.....

 

What's that say about our Safeties .... And pretty sure Sendejo was the best in pass D grades lol... Sendejo was our only Safety ranked inside the top 50.... Blackmon was 58th, and Willis was 62nd.

 

 

16. INDIANAPOLIS COLTS

Two of Indianapolis' outside cornerbacks earned  top-20 coverage grades this season: Rock Ya-Sin and Isaiah Rodgers. They each produced coverage grades above 70.0 for the season.

 

Ya-Sin made his best plays on his few snaps in press-man, while Rodgers' top moments came in off-zone when racking up stops.

 

Ya-Sin's 2020 coverage grade was over 20 points lower than his 2021 mark, and Rodgers played just 38 NFL coverage snaps entering the season, so this wasn’t expected.

weren't you saying Rogers wasn't a real CB because of his size?  I told you he was talented. 

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18 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

weren't you saying Rogers wasn't a real CB because of his size?  I told you he was talented. 

Rogers looks like he can hold his own.  If he improves this could be late round magic that really fills a great need at a very low cost.  
 

if he can play NFL average next year, he’s a treasure on this team.

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2 hours ago, Nickster said:

I just think we need a league average Coverage FS.  Just a legit starter.  I don’t know anything about other teams’ personnel, but I wouldn’t think you’d have to break the bank on a guy like this.

The two most important positions on our D are 3tech and FS. If Lewis comes back healthy we will be good on Dline. Tyquan was looking hot before injury hit. Paye, Buckner, and Lewis plus rotating our others can be enough with better blitzing and stunts. A stud FS is like having your QB of the secondary. This position can't be undervalued with our scheme. Mathieu is a FA Marcus Williams. FS is a good market this offseason...

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8 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:


He’s also going to be expensive.   I think every player you’d love to sign are all $10 mill and higher type guys.   I don’t think we have the budget for anyone like that. 

Im sorry, I don’t like to always be the guy with bad news.   I’m just trying to be realistic.  

 

It seems that we need a 10m corner, WR, and LT ...at least.  Sign a good EDGE, probably even more capital than that.

 

Like any business or household that has budget problems, you have to look around and analyze where the money is going.  I wonder what the analysis would tell us?

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22 hours ago, DougDew said:

RYS' issues in 2020 were deep ball coverage when asked to play Man, not necessarily shorter routes.  In 2021, my eye says that he was not asked to play so much deep Man, thank you Flus for doing the smart thing and playing more soft zone.  RYS is a solid corner in a zone scheme, or any scheme that doesn't test his long speed, but probably still the #2 corner.

 

Rodgers is a keeper.  A little small for tacking in a zone based coverage but he's better at pure coverage now than Rhodes is now.  He has also graded better each week from the past week, nearly without exception, IIRC.  Such steady improvement is a great thing to see and kind of rare.  Also, he was drafted with kind of a throw away pick in the 6th round, so its not like Ballard had this great vision.

 

Not sure what to say about Moore.  Didn't seem to have the mojo that he has had in the past.  

 

Given the corner situation, Ideally I'd like to see Moore's salary cap number applied to a new FA signing #1 corner, and push Rodgers over to slot.  That would be the best use of cap dollars, IMO.  I think that would also be the best pure coverage unit.  My concern would be Rodgers size and ability to contest catches against bigger slot receivers.  Could have some games where he gets picked on a lot, given the wrong match up.

 

Safeties have been an issue.  Willis is a 34 box safety.  That's clear, and its time to move on.  The idea of playing 3 safeties and different coverages isn't going to work because to do that a secondary needs players with versatility, more so than the calling the right personnel package and the right scheming at the right time. 

 

In general, the NFL is trending the wrong way on this, Too much chess playing from the bench and not enough reliance on players making the right plays at the right time.  If they are limited role players, they won't be able to make the right plays at the right time on the field if the opposing QB is smart enough to counter the bench's chess moves by scanning the field in the last 15 seconds of the play clock.  We fail against good offenses because of this, not because the bench calling needs to get better, IMO.

 

Too early to tell about Blackmon.  Showed flashes as a rookie but may have hit the rookie wall later in the season.  This year was a mess with injuries all over the secondary to start the season, no pass rush with the loss of Autry and Houston, and then Blackmon himself not being able to play and gain experience.  I wouldn't rely on the 2021 data for much of anything pertaining to Blackmon.

 

 Per Pro FB Ref

 For what it's worth. Willis, Blackmon, Odum all gave up over 15 yards Per reception, and had passes ratings over 120.

 Moore was targeted the 2nd most this season, a whopping 121 times. 

 Gave up 6 touchdowns which was common (5-6) for the better, highly targeted CB's. We saw him take a few bad angles, and he was credited with quite a few missed tackles. 

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1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Per Pro FB Ref

 For what it's worth. Willis, Blackmon, Odum all gave up over 15 yards Per reception, and had passes ratings over 120.

 Moore was targeted the 2nd most this season, a whopping 121 times. 

 Gave up 6 touchdowns which was common (5-6) for the better, highly targeted CB's. We saw him take a few bad angles, and he was credited with quite a few missed tackles. 

The result of Ballard's safety drafting is not much different than it is with DEs.

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52 minutes ago, DougDew said:

The result of Ballard's safety drafting is not much different than it is with DEs.

 

 Per PFR

 Oke 38 blitzes 

  His SEASON total was 1 hurry 1 sack 3 total pressures

 DL   42 blitzes 

  For the season   2 hurries  0 sacks  5 total pressures

     Not a lot of Total blitzes, but bad (not effective) at it when they did!!

   Any wonder we were one of the worst 3rd down pass defenses?

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4 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Per PFR

 Oke 38 blitzes 

  His SEASON total was 1 hurry 1 sack 3 total pressures

 DL   42 blitzes 

  For the season   2 hurries  0 sacks  5 total pressures

     Not a lot of Total blitzes, but bad at it when they did!!

   Any wonder we were one of the worst 3rd down pass defenses?

Do you know what it means "DL Blitz" . We have 4 dlineman.  Does it mean that all 4 rushed the passer 42 times, where as other times at least 1 did something else?

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4 hours ago, DougDew said:

It seems that we need a 10m corner, WR, and LT ...at least.  Sign a good EDGE, probably even more capital than that.

 

Like any business or household that has budget problems, you have to look around and analyze where the money is going.  I wonder what the analysis would tell us?


I don’t think Ballard believes in $10 mill cornerbacks.  Not with our Zone defense. Maybe $7-9, but I don’t believe he’s willing to go to 8 digits.   I could easily be wrong, but I’d have to see it to believe it.

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8 hours ago, Nickster said:

I just think we need a league average Coverage FS.  Just a legit starter.  I don’t know anything about other teams’ personnel, but I wouldn’t think you’d have to break the bank on a guy like this.


I hope we can find him.   

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21 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Do you know what it means "DL Blitz" . We have 4 dlineman.  Does it mean that all 4 rushed the passer 42 times, where as other times at least 1 did something else?

 

 Darius Leonard  DL

 Okereke  Oke

  Just suggesting that THEIR blitzes did not get them to the QB.

 A combined 80 blitz's between the 2 of them with 1 sack and 8 hurries for their combined season totals. Ouch!

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44 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Darius Leonard  DL

 Okereke  Oke

  Just suggesting that THEIR blitzes did not get them to the QB.

 A combined 80 blitz's between the 2 of them with 1 sack and 8 hurries for their combined season totals. Ouch!

And I don't think they have contested many passes.

 

Not effective blitzers.

 

If all they do is chase and tackle the ball carrier, it seems like decent college rookie linebackers could come in and do that with 2nd and 3rd round investments this spring.  A lot of rookie linebackers know how to chase the ball and tackle.

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8 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Darius Leonard  DL

 Okereke  Oke

  Just suggesting that THEIR blitzes did not get them to the QB.

 A combined 80 blitz's between the 2 of them with 1 sack and 8 hurries for their combined season totals. Ouch!

That’s another reason why we don’t and shouldn’t call many blitzes.  We lack the kind of personnel that would be effective playing aggressively.

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53 minutes ago, Nickster said:

That’s another reason why we don’t and shouldn’t call many blitzes.  We lack the kind of personnel that would be effective playing aggressively.

I agree about this, we could consider moving to a 3-4. The 4-3 zone used to work because we had Mathis and Freeney who could create pressure with out blitzing and scheme. A duo like that is rare. Flus is probably gone and most D Coordinators available run 3-4 anyway...you can get blitz creative with 3-4 and disguise it better and run better coverage with it...time to give up the dying D scheme...

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