Wentz for Carr straight up

[Smonroe]

10 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Carr has played a long time and that was his first playoff appearance. Yes his accuracy is good and he has for more yards. But I am not giving up more picks or extending him for that long and money for a guy that hasn’t won anything. 
 

At this point we need to stop giving up draft picks and look to draft our own. I know it’s not that easy because sometimes the draft just doesn’t have a QB. But we have a lot of holes. We already don’t have a 1st round pick. So let’s give up our second now for another QB. Does that sound smart?  How we supposed to find the long term answer at LT or more skill positions by doing this again and again.

 

IMHO, you give up whatever you have to in order to get a franchise QB.  I'm not saying that Carr is that guy.  But if I were the GM, I would have outbid the Rams for Stafford.  I'd do the same deal for Wilson in a heartbeat.

 

First round picks are still a crapshoot.  But a proven franchise QB is a given.

 

You have to wonder what Irsay was saying when he said he wants all the chips pushed in.  You'd think that would mean we're going for it, ala the Rams.  (or he could have just been saying he wants everyone committed to winning - duh...)

[throwing BBZ]

13 hours ago, jchandler7 said:

In a heartbeat! But... never going to happen. We'd have to give up draft capital and pay part of Went' salary before LV would ever entertain the idea. 

 

  Just for fun, any taker would only owe him $13M if we dump/trade him before that amount of bonus becomes guaranteed in March. We of course still take the $15M hit. This might work if Frank was thrown in on the deal! 

[MikeCurtis]

I dont see it

 

Last year, the market for Wentz was..........   the Colts, and it appeared the Colts only

 

You HAVE to agree that that marginal viewpoint on value for Wentz is a bit tarnished from that level

 

His value has dropped

 

Who would give up anything to trade us for Wentz today?

 

Who is this team?

 

Who is willing to take the 15M hit?

 

 

 

I think Wentz gets this next year to prove his value to the organization

 

If he doesnt step up, he goes away, at no future cost to the Colts and we get our QB of the future in the 2023 draft which is 

forming up to have some EXCELLENT QBs

 

 

 

To the MODS

 

We may need a "Trade Wentz for ...................  " sticky   

 

 

 

 

[lollygagger8]

Trade Wentz for.............

 

[coltsva]

A San Francisco woman's mission to trade a single hairpin for a house is officially complete. "After 28 trades and all the ups and downs, I finally did it," said 30-year-old Demi Skipper in a video posted on TikTok to mark the milestone. "I can't believe this!"

 

C'mon Ballard, you can do this! 

[Indeee]

This all is getting really silly. 

 

First off, Mariotta IS NOT good. Please just stop. Sometimes I wonder if anyone on here even watches football.

 

Second, Carr is not that good either so him, along with his bad haircut IS NOT the answer.

 

I think everyone is forgetting that a good portion of the league have a QB problem, and that this year's draft class is not that good according to the experts. This means that the Colts odds are not that great to land a significant upgrade. 

 

What we all need to hope for here is that 2021 was actually a bad version of trading places and we actually were watching Prince Harry play football and in 2022 we finally get the real Wentz back... Ha!!

 

I might add though that I still believe if the Colts would have signed Trubisky to a one year prove it deal, we as a team would be in a much better spot right now. Whether or not the outcome of our season would've been different with Mitch vs. Carson no one knows but if it would've been close to the same, we could have used our picks to potentially move up to grab Pickett maybe or whatever. I normally hate Ballard's one-year deals, but in this circumstance, I was praying he used it. Alas, he might have picked the wrong time not to.

 

 

[masterlock]

Looking back on the season, I have to wonder whether the Colts could've finished with the same, or better, record with Sam Ehlinger as their quarterback. I mean, I'm sure Sam can hand the ball off to Taylor too. As for the Raiders, there is ZERO chance they trade straight-up for Wentz, assuming they actually watched him play in 2021. There's the Carson who looks semi-decent on paper, a least in terms of TD-INT ratio (but not completion percentage), and then there's the Carson right in front of your eyes. Which are you going to trust? 

[Nesjan3]

24 minutes ago, Indeee said:

This all is getting really silly. 

 

First off, Mariotta IS NOT good. Please just stop. Sometimes I wonder if anyone on here even watches football.

 

Second, Carr is not that good either so him, along with his bad haircut IS NOT the answer.

 

I think everyone is forgetting that a good portion of the league have a QB problem, and that this year's draft class is not that good according to the experts. This means that the Colts odds are not that great to land a significant upgrade. 

 

What we all need to hope for here is that 2021 was actually a bad version of trading places and we actually were watching Prince Harry play football and in 2022 we finally get the real Wentz back... Ha!!

 

I might add though that I still believe if the Colts would have signed Trubisky to a one year prove it deal, we as a team would be in a much better spot right now. Whether or not the outcome of our season would've been different with Mitch vs. Carson no one knows but if it would've been close to the same, we could have used our picks to potentially move up to grab Pickett maybe or whatever. I normally hate Ballard's one-year deals, but in this circumstance, I was praying he used it. Alas, he might have picked the wrong time not to.

 

 

Wentz has looked  exactly like he did this year or worse 5/6 of the years he has been in the league. This is the real Wentz sad to say.

[Indeee]

1 minute ago, Nesjan3 said:

Wentz has looked the exactly like he did this year or worse 5/6 of the years he has been in the league. This is the real Wentz sad to say.

Yes, I'm afraid you might be correct. Time will tell.

[Btown_Colt]

1 hour ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

What’s even worse about all of this is if Reich and Ballard only have one more year a new coach comes in and still has a bare cupboard with no QB. There is no easy way to get out of this mess until the long term solution at QB is found. Which is why firing a coach and GM makes no sense. It won’t fix this problem.

Welcome to QB purgatory. It’s not a fun place to be.

[cdgacoltsfan]

I think we should get a decent TE and speed receiver and roll with Carson another year,

But if the Bills would send us Allen for Wentz straight up id approve that deal. Get it done Chris!

[Btown_Colt]

4 minutes ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

I think we should get a decent TE and speed receiver and roll with Carson another year,

But if the Bills would send us Allen for Wentz straight up id approve that deal. Get it done Chris!

Meh. Maybe if they send Diggs with him!

[csmopar]

15 hours ago, Patrick Miller said:

What say you?

Raiders aren’t that stupid 

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

What’s even worse about all of this is if Reich and Ballard only have one more year a new coach comes in and still has a bare cupboard with no QB. There is no easy way to get out of this mess until the long term solution at QB is found. Which is why firing a coach and GM makes no sense. It won’t fix this problem.

Dang twice in the same week that we agree!!! What is happening?!?

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, Smonroe said:

 

IMHO, you give up whatever you have to in order to get a franchise QB.  I'm not saying that Carr is that guy.  But if I were the GM, I would have outbid the Rams for Stafford.  I'd do the same deal for Wilson in a heartbeat.

 

First round picks are still a crapshoot.  But a proven franchise QB is a given.

 

You have to wonder what Irsay was saying when he said he wants all the chips pushed in.  You'd think that would mean we're going for it, ala the Rams.  (or he could have just been saying he wants everyone committed to winning - duh...)

I agree with you.  I think Irsay and Ballard are regretting not going all in and getting Stafford.  The price scared them no doubt and we know Ballard  loves his pics.  The question I have is will the Colts be willing to try and get Wilson to come here and then pay the price?  I think Irsay would now.  Last year we weren’t on Wilson’s list apparently but this is a new off-season.  We are not New York but we have a team ready to win now.  That might make a difference.  I think this would be on the table for all chips in.  I expect the Colts to be inquiring about Wilson.  Whether anything comes of it is anybody’s guess. We don’t have a 1st rounder this year so if it happens we will probably be trading a very good player as part of package.  One thing I feel certain about is after hearing Irsay and Ballard and even Reich speak after being eliminated I think all options are on the table now.  Irsay is embarrassed and angry.

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

Ballard us frustrated with with Wentz, and I believe he let Frank have his guy in Wentz. It's just my opinion that Ballard has to play Jim's fiddle with Reich. But Chris is usually honest and straight foward so maybe he likes Frank. In that case it's time to question Ballard. Frank Reich is the most overrated coach in football. Luck and Rivers masked his bad play balance between run and pass. Frank will always prioritize the pass game over run pass balance. It's costed us games. He choose to move on from the better Oline coach for his own guy who caused pass blocking regression across the whole line.

Dear God….

 

So much opinion backed up by nothing. 
 

So let’s just take the easiest and simplest….

 

That Frank fired the 2018 OL coach.   He did. But do you know who else has fired that OL coach?     Everyone.   Everyone!!   Look him up.   His resume is the same everywhere he’s been.  He’s hired and a year or two later, he’s fired.   Including by…..   none other than Bill Belichick.   What does it tell you that the coach did a very good job and he was still Fired?   It tells you he’s very difficult to work with.   And the proof is his long history.   Good coaches don’t get fired without a reason.   He’s been fired everywhere he’s been. 

Now let’s take the silly one.   Frank is only good when he has a very good quarterback.  Tell me, are there a lot of successful NFL coaches who don’t have very good quarterbacks?    Who?   It’s the most important position in all of sports,   Who succeeds without a very good quarterback?  
 

I won’t say no one.   But right off the top of my head….   I’d say almost no one.   why do teams hugely over-pay to trade up and try to draft a quarterback who they HOPE will be great someday?!?  Because you have to have one to be a consistently good team.  
 

Your anger is making you way, way over-think things. 
 

 

 

[Smonroe]

7 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I agree with you.  I think Irsay and Ballard are regretting not going all in and getting Stafford.  The price scared them no doubt and we know Ballard  loves his pics.  The question I have is will the Colts be willing to try and get Wilson to come here and then pay the price?  I think Irsay would now.  Last year we weren’t on Wilson’s list apparently but this is a new off-season.  We are not New York but we have a team ready to win now.  That might make a difference.  I think this would be on the table for all chips in.  I expect the Colts to be inquiring about Wilson.  Whether anything comes of it is anybody’s guess. We don’t have a 1st rounder this year so if it happens we will probably be trading a very good player as part of package.  One thing I feel certain about is after hearing Irsay and Ballard and even Reich speak after being eliminated I think all options are on the table now.  Irsay is embarrassed and angry.

 

Wilson would be my #1 choice, over Rodgers, Carr, Watson and any of the other names that have come up.   

 

I would have no complaints if they gave Seattle our next two #1's, our 2 this year, Wentz, and even Kelly if they wanted.  

 

I think AR is the best QB in the league but I don't think he's going to play that much longer.  Don't want the Watson drama.  I'd take Carr if the package wasn't too severe.

[gspdx]

I wouldn't waste anything on a guy that isn't considered to be a franchise QB.  Now I can't say for sure what a franchise QB is, but I don't see Carr being that.

 

So I would say we either roll with Wentz another year or bring in a guy that doesn't cost much to maybe compete with Wentz or try to get Wilson or Rodgers.  This is specifically for next year and I can't say I love any of those options.  Wilson would be considered a longer term solution but not sure how much longer Rodgers will be around.

 

I just don't want us to waste any draft capital or future cap on a guy that is just kind of a replacement for Wentz and most of the suggestions seem to be just that.  If we fall on our face next year I would like for us to have the best possibility to draft a guy that might end up being our franchise QB.  

 

It's a tough spot to be in and probably half the teams in the NFL are in the same spot.

[Coltsfan98]

Carr = 68.4% 4,804 yrds, 23 TD's, 14 ints, 94.0 rating

 

Wentz = 62.4% 3,563 yrds, 27 TD's, 7 ints, 94.6 rating

 

Why is Carr so great????

[Rhodelesstraveled]

16 hours ago, Patrick Miller said:

What say you?

Raiders are not that stupid.  

[ColtV]

16 hours ago, Patrick Miller said:

What say you?

I say no. Even if Carr is an improvement(based on 2021 numbers) its not so much that its worth giving up any capital. Carr doesnt put this team in the upper stratosphere of AFC contention anymore than Wentz does, imo. And realistically I don't see why LV would do it

[Shive]

 

 

 

To answer OP, there's absolutely no chance Carr is being traded for Wentz straight up.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

59 minutes ago, Coltsfan98 said:

Carr = 68.4% 4,804 yrds, 23 TD's, 14 ints, 94.0 rating

 

Wentz = 62.4% 3,563 yrds, 27 TD's, 7 ints, 94.6 rating

 

Why is Carr so great????

The only caveat I throw in there is how many rushing TD did their RB have. Carson doesn’t throw as many TD because of Taylor. The passing yards are probably going to lead to more INT which I am ok with. But the TD number is concerning.

[Coltsfan98]

5 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

The only caveat I throw in there is how many rushing TD did their RB have. Carson doesn’t throw as many TD because of Taylor. The passing yards are probably going to lead to more INT which I am ok with. But the TD number is concerning.

Jacobs had 9 rushing TD's and I think there #2 had 2. So 11 total for their backs.

 

JT had 18 rushing TD's. 

 

Plus the raiders have a better receiving core then we do and I'd take Waller over any of our TE's.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

5 minutes ago, Coltsfan98 said:

Jacobs had 9 rushing TD's and I think there #2 had 2. So 11 total for their backs.

 

JT had 18 rushing TD's. 

 

Plus the raiders have a better receiving core then we do and I'd take Waller over any of our TE's.

Yeah with that many receiving yards you would think that TD number would be higher. I would have to dig into that more.  Were they bad in the red zone? I think I remember reading  they were when we played them. Did they turn it over a bunch in the red zone? Just some questions I would need to know why that TD number isn’t higher. Would have to look at past years too.

[Coltsfan98]

Plus Carr has 1 more game to his stats with the playoff game.

 

My point is I just don't see him being that much better than Wentz if you switched them. It's like people see a few highlights or low lights of different players and it sways their opinions when in reality there really isn't that great a difference between them.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

5 minutes ago, Coltsfan98 said:

Plus Carr has 1 more game to his stats with the playoff game.

 

My point is I just don't see him being that much better than Wentz if you switched them. It's like people see a few highlights or low lights of different players and it sways their opinions when in reality there really isn't that great a difference between them.

Car will take the underneath stuff unlike Carson was doing at the end of the season. He gets the ball out quick. Add a vertical threat and he has a pretty deep ball. A huge knock on him id he crumbles when under pressure and getting hit. He is a great leader. If he is traded there will be a lot of suitors for him and he will get a trade and extend. I just don’t know if it’s worth extending him and giving up assets for a guy that hasn’t really won anything. Colts really are stuck if there are no options in the next couple of drafts.

[Catloaf]

I wish it would happen but it won’t.

 

if we had gotten Wentz for a 3rd and a 2nd I’d say it was a good deal.  The fact that we lost our 1st really hurts.  Too bad Carson got good just in time to start until past the point of no return, only to get beat by the Painter stick the last couple games.

[Smonroe]

2 hours ago, Coltsfan98 said:

Carr = 68.4% 4,804 yrds, 23 TD's, 14 ints, 94.0 rating

 

Wentz = 62.4% 3,563 yrds, 27 TD's, 7 ints, 94.6 rating

 

Why is Carr so great????

 

Put the stats down and look at how they play.  Especially in parts of games that matter.  

 

Carson won us one game (AZ) in my mind.  Carr was instrumental in just about all of their wins.

[Coltsfan98]

17 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

Put the stats down and look at how they play.  Especially in parts of games that matter.  

 

Carson won us one game (AZ) in my mind.  Carr was instrumental in just about all of their wins.

Lol there's parts of games that don't matter?

 

The raiders finished with 1 more win then we did. The great Carr beat the horrible Wentz 23-20 thanks to a game winning FG with no time left.

 

Huge upgrade no doubt about it.......huge!

[Hawkeyecolt]

Carr had an organization in complete disarray while playing in a tougher division. Yet, he led them into the playoffs. 

[Smonroe]

5 minutes ago, Coltsfan98 said:

Lol there's parts of games that don't matter?

 

The raiders finished with 1 more win then we did. The great Carr beat the horrible Wentz 23-20 thanks to a game winning FG with no time left.

 

Huge upgrade no doubt about it.......huge!

 

Who said anything about a huge upgrade?

 

The point is that Carr won games for them.  I'll give Carson the AZ game.  Other than that it was mainly the ground attack.

 

 

[Coltsfan98]

How much will Carr need to be paid after this season? He's a FA in 2023.

[chad72]

Here is my thought process. Enough is enough with this speculation. As a free agent QB, why would I want to come to the Colts? Hey, looking at it objectively, if Ballard overreacts to a woeful 2 games as opposed to the shortcomings of what has been provided to him in the form of pass protection with the OL and less than stellar pass catchers, QBs around the league will take notice.

 

Irsay's sales pitch should not equate to a knee jerk reaction on Ballard's or Frank's part. I get it, it was one of the worst endings we could have had to the Colts season. Reeling from Luck's retirement on the heels of Josh McDaniels leaving you at the altar, and having to go through 2 years of mediocre Jacoby Brissett play in 2017 due to a Luck injury and in 2019 due to Luck's retirement plus thinking Rivers' production in a pandemic off season could be replicated, Ballard could not have miscalculated any more and be sitting in a worse spot. That does not mean you abandon ship for 2022 with Wentz.

 

No more dramatic press conferences, take the emotion out of it and figure out if you can do better with a rookie in 2022 or an improved Wentz with 2022 or if you can roll with Sam. Do you have confidence in Frank's ability to get more out of Wentz? That is what it boils down to. If the answer is remotely yes, give it another ago with a solid backup for Plan B in 2022. 

 

Everything else is throwing spaghetti on the wall hoping it sticks short term and that is not what we want. You will not know if Wentz is our answer after last season, not after he missed most of TC, not after serious issues with the LT position and pass catchers. Don't expect to hit reset every time, and pick up where you left off at the highest point of your roster performance you reached the previous year. That is what they did with Rivers and look where it got us. Don't make the same mistake again.

[indyagent17]

17 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Why would Las Vegas do this?

 

Carr had a very good season, Wentz did not.   
 

The Raiders would laugh and then hang up the phone.   And then laugh some more. 

Al Davis is in hell laughing at that one

[Hawkeyecolt]

52 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

Who said anything about a huge upgrade?

 

The point is that Carr won games for them.  I'll give Carson the AZ game.  Other than that it was mainly the ground attack.

 

 

Why give him AZ game though. His play through the 3rd Quarter was complete dog%. 

[LV-FrontRow]

2 hours ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Car will take the underneath stuff unlike Carson was doing at the end of the season. He gets the ball out quick. Add a vertical threat and he has a pretty deep ball. A huge knock on him id he crumbles when under pressure and getting hit. He is a great leader. If he is traded there will be a lot of suitors for him and he will get a trade and extend. I just don’t know if it’s worth extending him and giving up assets for a guy that hasn’t really won anything. Colts really are stuck if there are no options in the next couple of drafts.

 

Carr just set the record for most 20+ passing yard plays in a season. 

 

Carr's major problem his whole career is that he has had bottom of the league ranked defenses. Historically bad defenses. Even the year he went 12-4 his defense was bottom 3 in the league. The only reason they made the playoffs this year was because the defense started to gel. 

 

Carr is worth 2 1st round picks to quite a few teams. 

[bestQBever]

15 hours ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

I just like Ballard and don't see what he sees in Frank. Reich allowed a struggling Vinny cost us games, tried to make new QB Wentz throw over using JT in 2-3 games, TEN 51 passes to 16 Runs...JT got the ball once the whole second half that 2nd Titans game. He abandons the runs until the media calls him out for weeks about it then when he does run everyone acted like he was a genius for doing it. It was common sense we didn't have good balance. Frank needs an Andrew Luck generational talent or a strong Vet like Rivers to mask his play balance issues because they audible well. The only reason Wentz and him had success in Philly is because they had a killer TE room and Nick Sirriani...once the league figured out their style FR never adjusted to scheme better. He regressed with Carson and Didn't do much with Jacoby. Wentz and his left handed miracles no to go...or Irsay needs to rethink front office...Ballard has overpaid QBs way too often. We should have kept Autry over TY...

Every coach in the NFL does questionable things. Winning masks it all. Imagine if Carson was just average from after the bye week up until the end of the season, instead of being atrocious... We would be 11-6 and the 3 seed... Name one coach doing great things right now with a QB on Wentz level? Maybe you can point to San Fran and Tennesee? That's it. Bottom line is that in the NFL, you need a top 5-7 QB to even have a chance. The only outliers in all of history are teams with either legendary defenses or legendary running games.

[Los1sol]

14 hours ago, Smonroe said:

 

IMHO, you give up whatever you have to in order to get a franchise QB.  I'm not saying that Carr is that guy.  But if I were the GM, I would have outbid the Rams for Stafford.  I'd do the same deal for Wilson in a heartbeat.

 

First round picks are still a crapshoot.  But a proven franchise QB is a given.

 

You have to wonder what Irsay was saying when he said he wants all the chips pushed in.  You'd think that would mean we're going for it, ala the Rams.  (or he could have just been saying he wants everyone committed to winning - duh...)

He wants everyone committed to winning. He knows we don’t have the draft capital to make any big moves in the draft this year and this isn’t a heavy QB year anyway. 

[Los1sol]

9 hours ago, chad72 said:

Here is my thought process. Enough is enough with this speculation. As a free agent QB, why would I want to come to the Colts? Hey, looking at it objectively, if Ballard overreacts to a woeful 2 games as opposed to the shortcomings of what has been provided to him in the form of pass protection with the OL and less than stellar pass catchers, QBs around the league will take notice.

 

Irsay's sales pitch should not equate to a knee jerk reaction on Ballard's or Frank's part. I get it, it was one of the worst endings we could have had to the Colts season. Reeling from Luck's retirement on the heels of Josh McDaniels leaving you at the altar, and having to go through 2 years of mediocre Jacoby Brissett play in 2017 due to a Luck injury and in 2019 due to Luck's retirement plus thinking Rivers' production in a pandemic off season could be replicated, Ballard could not have miscalculated any more and be sitting in a worse spot. That does not mean you abandon ship for 2022 with Wentz.

 

No more dramatic press conferences, take the emotion out of it and figure out if you can do better with a rookie in 2022 or an improved Wentz with 2022 or if you can roll with Sam. Do you have confidence in Frank's ability to get more out of Wentz? That is what it boils down to. If the answer is remotely yes, give it another ago with a solid backup for Plan B in 2022. 

 

Everything else is throwing spaghetti on the wall hoping it sticks short term and that is not what we want. You will not know if Wentz is our answer after last season, not after he missed most of TC, not after serious issues with the LT position and pass catchers. Don't expect to hit reset every time, and pick up where you left off at the highest point of your roster performance you reached the previous year. That is what they did with Rivers and look where it got us. Don't make the same mistake again.

You make some interesting points. But if we stick with Wentz, it will be because there aren’t many other options. Wentz can be a good quarterback at times, great even. But his lows are so dreadful… add to that the fact that he could have avoided the two week meltdown had he been vaccinated and it makes you question whether he is really committed to winning. And if I’m Ballard and I gamble on another year of Frank calling his plays with Wentz as our QB, I would have to go into it fearing for my job if the gamble doesn’t pay off.