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Wentz for Carr straight up


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13 minutes ago, Patrick Miller said:

What say you?

Mariotta is a free agent, sign him. Maybe we can find a team loaded at a position with too much money tied up there and we can trade Wentz. But I don't see any teams wanting to take on Wentzs contract. We missed on him, his flaws areuncountable., he is too much of a liability under pressure. Never throws it away tries to hard to make something out of nothing, just like Frank trying to only pass when we still have leads... I can tell Ballard is over Frank and Wentz, Jim is stepping on Ballard's toes.

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4 minutes ago, IndySouthsider said:

Carr is NOT getting a 1st and second ever

Yah and Wentz aint getting more than a 6th never mind straight up for a much better qb. Also we paid a 1st for Wentz a year ago so I wouldn't be so confident in what your saying.

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18 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

Yah and Wentz aint getting more than a 6th never mind straight up for a much better qb. Also we paid a 1st for Wentz a year ago so I wouldn't be so confident in what your saying.

you mean a 3rd a year ago and this year's 1st? :)

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Just now, IrsaysArmy said:

Wentz got a 1 and 3

 

1 hour ago, IndySouthsider said:

Carr is NOT getting a 1st and second ever

Carr is AT LEAST getting that. He is closer to Stafford than Wentz. He likely gets a 1st, 2nd, and possibly another pick.

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1 hour ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

Mariotta is a free agent, sign him. Maybe we can find a team loaded at a position with too much money tied up there and we can trade Wentz. But I don't see any teams wanting to take on Wentzs contract. We missed on him, his flaws areuncountable., he is too much of a liability under pressure. Never throws it away tries to hard to make something out of nothing, just like Frank trying to only pass when we still have leads... I can tell Ballard is over Frank and Wentz, Jim is stepping on Ballard's toes.

Ballard is definitely not over Frank. Just watch his press conference. He might be over Wentz

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25 minutes ago, Colts1324 said:

 

Carr is AT LEAST getting that. He is closer to Stafford than Wentz. He likely gets a 1st, 2nd, and possibly another pick.

No he is not. Hey I don’t support Wentz, but Carr isn’t good either. It’s like everybody wants to just shuffle crappy QB’s around.

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8 minutes ago, bestQBever said:

Ballard is definitely not over Frank. Just watch his press conference. He might be over Wentz

At the end of the day, they may have to give Wentz  one more shot which I am not opposed to. What choice  do they really have? They invested to much and they are really in no position to trade up. They lack a 1st rounder this  year and moving up in the 1st round  demands that as a starting point. Teams would easily jump ahead of the Colts in any  trade scenario. It's Sam, Wentz or a 2nd round project.  If   they draft a qb in the 2nd round, it eliminates their ability to draft  a skill player.

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1 hour ago, IrsaysArmy said:

Wentz got a 1 and 3

That’s because Ballard gave in and should’ve played hardball with Philly. No other team was in the mix for trading for him so he could have gotten Wentz for less.

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22 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

That’s because Ballard gave in and should’ve played hardball with Philly. No other team was in the mix for trading for him so he could have gotten Wentz for less.

That’s not how that went down.  In fact reports are Ballard made his offer and the eagles said no thinking they could get more and came back to Ballard and said okay we will take your deal.  He did play hardball with them and got him for the price he was willing to pay for him.  Saying now that he wasn’t worth that is fine but let’s not try to reinvent history just because you don’t like the trade.  

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59 minutes ago, IndySouthsider said:

No he is not. Hey I don’t support Wentz, but Carr isn’t good either. It’s like everybody wants to just shuffle crappy QB’s around.

Carr is pretty good and very good leader.  Also, teams aren’t exactly lining up to trade away the MaHomes of the NFL so if you don’t have one and you aren’t in position to draft one you have to fine someone and hope you hit on him like the Titans did with Tannelhill or the Colts did with Harbaugh in 1995 where the guy just works in your system.  

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3 hours ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

Mariotta is a free agent, sign him. Maybe we can find a team loaded at a position with too much money tied up there and we can trade Wentz. But I don't see any teams wanting to take on Wentzs contract. We missed on him, his flaws areuncountable., he is too much of a liability under pressure. Never throws it away tries to hard to make something out of nothing, just like Frank trying to only pass when we still have leads... I can tell Ballard is over Frank and Wentz, Jim is stepping on Ballard's toes.


“Ballard is over Frank”.  ??? 
 

What?  Are?   You?   Talking?   About?!?

 

Ballard just raved about Frank at the year ender.   Raved.   In 2021, CB orchestrated his head coach to get a 4-year extension when he still had 2-years to go on his original contract.   That’s 6-years on his contract and he still has 5-years left.   The two are practically joined at the hip. 

 

I don’t know where this comes from?   

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1 hour ago, bestQBever said:

only chance that happens is that Mike Mayock is still GM in name, and does the trade to spite the raiders for firing him... or they hire Bill O Brien to be the GM

Bill O Brien will give us Carr and a 4th for Wentz and a 2nd

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Well, let's look at history:

Lefty Grove was traded for a fence

Cliff Drapper was traded for an announcer

John Odom was traded for 10 bats

Dave Winfield was traded for a dinner

 

So I'd say trading Carson Wentz for a Carr would be a pretty good deal for the Colts.

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Someone on Bowen's show made this suggestion, so I'm just paraphrasing (don't kill the messenger):

 

The Raiders may want to do a re-tooling, which means the new GM may want to start fresh with a new QB.  

 

The Colts give them Carson and Kelly, plus probably next years #1 (or 2), for Carr.  Their Center is not good.

 

Carr's cap hit is less than Carsons, Kelly goes off the books.  And the Raiders have a Goff like starter while they do their rebuild.

 

Possible.

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It was only a couple/few years ago when the word on Carr was very similar to that on Wentz:

"Yeah, he's ok, but you're never going to go to the superbowl with him."

 

When did that change?  Or is it still the same, and we've forgotten about it?  If it did change (say, because Carr improved his play), would it be possible for the same thing to happen for Wentz?

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20 minutes ago, coltsva said:

Well, let's look at history:

Lefty Grove was traded for a fence

Cliff Drapper was traded for an announcer

John Odom was traded for 10 bats

Dave Winfield was traded for a dinner

 

So I'd say trading Carson Wentz for a Carr would be a pretty good deal for the Colts.

 

We could also give them Lamay, he's not busy

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8 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:


“Ballard is over Frank”.  ??? 
 

What?  Are?   You?   Talking?   About?!?

 

Ballard just raved about Frank at the year ender.   Raved.   In 2021, CB orchestrated his head coach to get a 4-year extension when he still had 2-years to go on his original contract.   That’s 6-years on his contract and he still has 5-years left.   The two are practically joined at the hip. 

 

I don’t know where this comes from?   

Ballard us frustrated with with Wentz, and I believe he let Frank have his guy in Wentz. It's just my opinion that Ballard has to play Jim's fiddle with Reich. But Chris is usually honest and straight foward so maybe he likes Frank. In that case it's time to question Ballard. Frank Reich is the most overrated coach in football. Luck and Rivers masked his bad play balance between run and pass. Frank will always prioritize the pass game over run pass balance. It's costed us games. He choose to move on from the better Oline coach for his own guy who caused pass blocking regression across the whole line.

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9 hours ago, bestQBever said:

Ballard is definitely not over Frank. Just watch his press conference. He might be over Wentz

I just like Ballard and don't see what he sees in Frank. Reich allowed a struggling Vinny cost us games, tried to make new QB Wentz throw over using JT in 2-3 games, TEN 51 passes to 16 Runs...JT got the ball once the whole second half that 2nd Titans game. He abandons the runs until the media calls him out for weeks about it then when he does run everyone acted like he was a genius for doing it. It was common sense we didn't have good balance. Frank needs an Andrew Luck generational talent or a strong Vet like Rivers to mask his play balance issues because they audible well. The only reason Wentz and him had success in Philly is because they had a killer TE room and Nick Sirriani...once the league figured out their style FR never adjusted to scheme better. He regressed with Carson and Didn't do much with Jacoby. Wentz and his left handed miracles no to go...or Irsay needs to rethink front office...Ballard has overpaid QBs way too often. We should have kept Autry over TY...

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4 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

I just like Ballard and don't see what he sees in Frank. Reich allowed a struggling Vinny cost us games, tried to make new QB Wentz throw over using JT in 2-3 games, TEN 51 passes to 16 Runs...JT got the ball once the whole second half that 2nd Titans game. He abandons the runs until the media calls him out for weeks about it then when he does run everyone acted like he was a genius for doing it. It was common sense we didn't have good balance. Frank needs an Andrew Luck generational talent or a strong Vet like Rivers to mask his play balance issues because they audible well. The only reason Wentz and him had success in Philly is because they had a killer TE room and Nick Sirriani...once the league figured out their style FR never adjusted to scheme better. He regressed with Carson and Didn't do much with Jacoby. Wentz and his left handed miracles no to go...or Irsay needs to rethink front office...Ballard has overpaid QBs way too often. We should have kept Autry over TY...

Ballard isn’t excused when it comes to Vinny.

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27 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

Someone on Bowen's show made this suggestion, so I'm just paraphrasing (don't kill the messenger):

 

The Raiders may want to do a re-tooling, which means the new GM may want to start fresh with a new QB.  

 

The Colts give them Carson and Kelly, plus probably next years #1 (or 2), for Carr.  Their Center is not good.

 

Carr's cap hit is less than Carsons, Kelly goes off the books.  And the Raiders have a Goff like starter while they do their rebuild.

 

Possible.

If Carr is traded it will be a extend and trade. I doubt he plays on a one year deal. Also he hasn’t even won anything. He had more INT and less TD then Wentz this year.

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7 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

If Carr is traded it will be a extend and trade. I doubt he plays on a one year deal. Also he hasn’t even won anything. He had more INT and less TD then Wentz this year.

 

Neither have won anything.  You saw them both play.  Carr did more with less, he lost Ruggs, and Waller hardly played.  Their season was in turmoil, yet he led them to the playoffs.

 

What does the eye test tell you?

 

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38 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

Neither have won anything.  You saw them both play.  Carr did more with less, he lost Ruggs, and Waller hardly played.  Their season was in turmoil, yet he led them to the playoffs.

 

What does the eye test tell you?

 

Carr has played a long time and that was his first playoff appearance. Yes his accuracy is good and he has for more yards. But I am not giving up more picks or extending him for that long and money for a guy that hasn’t won anything. 
 

At this point we need to stop giving up draft picks and look to draft our own. I know it’s not that easy because sometimes the draft just doesn’t have a QB. But we have a lot of holes. We already don’t have a 1st round pick. So let’s give up our second now for another QB. Does that sound smart?  How we supposed to find the long term answer at LT or more skill positions by doing this again and again.

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What’s even worse about all of this is if Reich and Ballard only have one more year a new coach comes in and still has a bare cupboard with no QB. There is no easy way to get out of this mess until the long term solution at QB is found. Which is why firing a coach and GM makes no sense. It won’t fix this problem.

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9 hours ago, BProland85 said:

That’s because Ballard gave in and should’ve played hardball with Philly. No other team was in the mix for trading for him so he could have gotten Wentz for less.

IF you want to criticize the trade for Wentz it is what we gave up and not how he performed. To take a chance on him was not a big deal to me. I thought Reich could resurrect his career and who knows, Frank and Wentz may be given another year to work together.  If it failed, we could have packaged some picks this year and moved up or even next year. The problem is that the Colts gave up a  1st and 3rd rounder.  The Indy media was  licking Ballard's boots when this trade was going down. They said they know Ballard and he will stick to his guns , set a time frame and walk away from the table. It now looks like he was fleeced.  There are reports coming out of Philly that the Eagles were basically laughing all the way to the bank with what the Colts eventually  offered. Also people in the building are now saying that they were right to trade Wentz as everything he did wrong in Philly is now rearing its ugly head in Indy. It has also been reported that know one else was really involved with maybe the exception  maybe of the Bears. When I see what Titans gave up for Tannehill, a 6th I believe, it does make me question Ballard's competency moving forward. It is not only this trade but a long list of misses in early rounds of the draft. You have to remember that Philly did not want Wentz and Wentz did not want to stay in Philly.  My whole issue with Ballard in this Wentz debacle is how he has been  openly criticizing Wentz in  the media. Wentz played well early in the season. His last 8 games were not good and he mechanically fell apart. I said in the Arizona game  that he played scared.  The 1st part of the season the Oline was hurt a lot and it lead to a lot of pressure on Carson. I felt he actually played well considering. However, I believe the early part of the season and the constant pressure lead to him reverting back to his old habits. Maybe Frank can work with him one year and see if they can clean him up. I am not sure they can as he is 30 years old and maybe he is what he is. I do believe that Frank knows if they should keep him or just move on. I think Frank took it personally, as I believe he was in Ballard's  ear asking for the trade. If that is how it went down, then yes Frank deserves some blame. I think Ballard deserves far more blame, as it is his job to decide if the trade is viable and what resources have to be given up. I don't think Frank has made a lot of mistakes as it relates to coaching. I actually think he is a pretty good coach and besides Taylor and the over rated Oline, he does not have any skill players to work with. The teams currently in the playoffs have numerous skill players on their rosters and okay Olines. If you look at actually how his offence is performed and the actual final grading of each player on offence, he did a really good job. Give him Kelce, Hill and a competent QB and the we can see how he does lol!!.

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