Eberflus hired as Bears new HC *UPDATED*

[Colt.45]

1 minute ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

We have two very good blitzers. I understand Leonard’s ankle probably limited that this season but that just isn’t true.

 

Good blitzers? Who? Moore and Leonard? How many times did Moore get home this season? I will need to look again but it feels like this season wasnt like others ie when he blitzed this year, it was picked up very easily and he got caught up in the wash. Well, i'd reckon that will happen if your ENDS are not winning their battles and everyone knows not to worry about them so your blitz can be picked up more easily no matter what kind of design it is. The ends don't win, end of story.

 

We made a decision to ride with youth. This was the outcome.

[#12.]

With a new D coordinator and new D-line coach, I might give Turay one more look.  I suppose Banogu will get a final chance with a new coach.

[Superman]

1 minute ago, AustinnKaine said:

I agree with everything you are saying except one thing.  that bringing in someone else is going to change what we do.  this defense has been groomed and ultimately, drafted for this type of scheme.  how much of a difference are you really expecting out of our next DC?  seems a bit hopeful. 

 

I think it's less likely that Eberflus would have adjusted, than that there will be adjustments with a new DC.

 

And by the way, I don't think there's fundamentally anything wrong with the scheme or the type of personnel we target. I simply think we need to be more flexible in how we cover and rush. And that's something that Ballard hinted at during his presser, also.

[MikeCurtis]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I would play a 3-4 because we have Defo to cover the middle and I would blitz a lot more. Leonard would be awesome if he blitzed off and on. JMO. To play a 3-4 we would need another fast LB and 1 better cover corner but that is on Ballard.

I hate to disagree with a fellow Colts fan...... but

 

There is NO WAY Buckner would be a NT (Middle)  in a 3-4...... I mean no way

 

How many NTs weigh less than 300?

 

He would be a decent strong side DE in a 3-4......

[MikeCurtis]

2 minutes ago, #12. said:

I suppose Banogu will get a final chance with a new coach.

Banogu has played his last NFL game IMHO

[#12.]

1 minute ago, MikeCurtis said:

Banogu has played his last NFL game IMHO

 

Probably, but he at least has a chance with a new coach.  

[joecolts]

Next man up!  Wanting someone to step and and say:  

[DougDew]

31 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

We already know that the main issue with this defense is we have no pass rush....but wait, you still need a pass rush with any other defense. Sounds simple but it's the truth. You can put up all the window dressing you want on your defense,

BB always seems to have a pass rush.  And he doesn't get it from players like Lawrence Guy or the NT.  He has big LBers.  Always has had bigger than normal LBers.  About 245 250 pounds.  I'm not saying that is the way to go.  Its an example for contrasting.

 

Just contrast that to our All-Pro LBer who plays at about 218 pounds.  Easily stuffed by a 250 pound TE, or even can be blocked by a 210 pound RB.   That's one position player that can't be relied upon to blitz.  The other one OKe, doesn't seem to blitz well.  Then there is Willis and Moore, who are the next closest player to the QB (you dont want to necessarily blitz the outside corners, they are too far away).  Not very big guys.

 

The defense is not constructed to get a pass rush from non front 4 players.   BBs defense is constructed to get pass rushes from a number of playing positions and angles.  He adds and signs players that have the size for it.

 

Put our defensive players into his system and BB would not get a pass rush either.  Our system is not meant to blitz.  Its meant to get a rush from the front 4 and then contest or chase the pass catcher and tackle immediately.  

 

Bottom line.  It makes sense for our system to not blitz often, because the non front 4 players were not drafted with blitzing in mind.  They are drafted to do other things.  In BBs system, all 4 LBers and the SS players are drafted with blitzing ability in mind, because the system is not supposed to get pass rush from the DL players like Lawrence Guy or the NT, they are drafted to stop the run.

[Superman]

33 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

You're countering that we needed to vary coverages, and pressures. Okay fine, lets say we agree that this should have happened. Is varying coverages easier with first string guys than third stringers? That's a talent question. Do you not still need a semblance of pass rush to get home to muddy the QB's day up? That's again a talent question.

 

I'm not arguing any of this.

 

Quote

If you vary coverages and pressures and confuse the QB BUT your pass rush isn't winning then fundamentally the QB still has time in the pocket to dissect your defense even if you've switched things up because he knows not to pay attention to what you're doing because at it's core your talent isn't good enough to beat his protection and so you won't touch him, is that not true?

...

If you vary coverages and the QB sees that he has more time to process BECAUSE no matter what you're doing, your guys are not winning the battles upfront, his mental processing/clock doesnt ever get to that sped up phase. And he understands that if he just takes the time, he can pick you apart. Can we agree on that? 

 

If we had switched things up against Lamar and he still torched us, I'd be right there with you. We didn't. The teams that did blitz him a ton had significant success, which is, at the very least, proof of concept. (And again, this was our second go round with him.)

 

Quote

In that Baltimore game, the guy tried everything.

 

No, he didn't. And that's why I'm offering it as an example. We mostly played zone coverage, Lamar had what would be a career best game for most other QBs in just the second half. And the counter argument is 'we don't have the horses to do something different.' We don't have the horses to do what we did!! Which is why Lamar Jackson had literally the best half+ any QB has ever had in the NFL. And we did it anyway.

 

That's not the only game, either. The Jets game was substandard, against second and third string QBs whose names I can't even remember off the top of my head.

 

Quote

In our case, it doesnt matter the scheme because the baseline is the pass rush isn't there. Is that not a talent issue?

 

This is one of those extremes, and we should probably say something about it. Our defense needs better players, but it's not some bottom of the barrel unit with no good players on it. We're not talking about the 2011 Colts (who still never played as poorly as our defense did in the second half of the Ravens game). In fact, we have three defensive Pro Bowlers, who were all on the field against Baltimore.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

13 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Banogu has played his last NFL game IMHO

Apparently something went on between Eberflus and Banogu. The person who has the info said once Eberflus was gone he would tell the story.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Colts were ranked 29th in the 4th quarter. That is a combination of things. Bad scheming, not knowing how to create a pass rush, and some of it is personel.

[Colt.45]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

BB always seems to have a pass rush.  And he doesn't get it from players like Lawrence Guy or the NT.  He has big LBers.  Always has had bigger than normal LBers.  About 245 250 pounds.  I'm not saying that is the way to go.  Its an example for contrasting.

 

Just contrast that to our All-Pro LBer who plays at about 218 pounds.  Easily stuffed by a 250 pound TE, or even can be blocked by a 210 pound RB.   That's one position player that can't be relied upon to blitz.  The other one OKe, doesn't seem to blitz well.  Then there is Willis and Moore, who are the next closest player to the QB (you dont want to necessarily blitz the outside corners, they are too far away).  Not very big guys.

 

The defense is not constructed to get a pass rush from non front 4 players.  It has no true NT, and does not have a role for Lawrence Guy.  BBs defense is constructed to get pass rushes from a number of playing positions and angles.  He adds and signs players that have the size for it.

 

Put our defensive players into his system and BB would not get a pass rush either.  Our system is not meant to blitz.  Its meant to get a rush from the front 4 and then contest or chase the pass catcher and tackle immediately.  

 

Bottom line.  It makes sense for our system to not blitz often, because the non front 4 players were not drafted with blitzing in mind.  They are drafted to do other things.  In BBs system, those players are drafted with blitzing ability in mind, because the system is not supposed to get pass rush from Lawrence Guy or the NT, they are drafted to stop the run.

 

Exactly. There are concessions you make, it's give and take. This defense fundamentally isn't meant to  get deep which means it's central priority is you need guys covering (much like Buffalo and the old Dungy defenses) and means you need bodies winning up front, period. The concession? If you don't win, the defense gets gashed. Then you start asking why and come to Jesus with a ton of problems and worries.

 

Also, this league is BAKED for the offenses. Look at the #1 defense in the league. Buffalo. The fundamental idea is the same as ours, prevent the deep completions. They are building similarly to Ballard yet they went up against KC and KC sliced them up by doing the exact thing offenses did to us in the last two games albeit at a higher clip i.e. KC took the shorter routes, and when Buffalo covered excellently, Mahomes just took off running, how do you guard against that? Knowing you aint got Football Jesus sitting in your defense to perform miracles.

[ColtsBlueFL]

4 hours ago, ChuggaBeer said:

Congrats to Flus.     

 

Now we shall see what happens and if it was good for the Colts or not.

 

People keep bringing up Schwartz.   But he is in TN.   So how would he be able to come here?  I'm hoping for Wink now I guess.  

 

Assistant/position coaches can now interview for D or O coordinator positions without employer approval.  OTOH, Schwartz is defined as a Senior defensive assistant.   So, it may come down to a Goodell decision based upon the Titans coaching 'depth chart' they filed with the league-

 

Tweet:

Jonathan Jones

@jjones9

The NFL will now require all teams to submit in writing its coaching organizational structure and job description. If there's a debate when it comes to someone interviewing for another job, Goodell will decide

2:39 PM · May 19, 2020

 

 

[DougDew]

Just now, Colt.45 said:

 

Exactly. There are concessions you make, it's give and take. This defense fundamentally isn't meant to  get deep which means it's central priority is you need guys covering (much like Buffalo and the old Dungy defenses) and means you need bodies winning up front, period. The concession? If you don't win, the defense gets gashed. Then you start asking why and come to Jesus with a ton of problems and worries.

 

Also, this league is BAKED for the offenses. Look at the #1 defense in the league. Buffalo. The fundamental idea is the same as ours, prevent the deep completions. They are building similarly to Ballard yet they went up against KC and KC sliced them up by doing the exact thing offenses did to us in the last two games albeit at a higher clip i.e. KC took the shorter routes, and when Buffalo covered excellently, Mahomes just took off running, how do you guard against that? Knowing you aint got Football Jesus sitting in your defense to perform miracles.

Look, folks need to realize that we committed $60M to a 218 pound LBer.  The trade off is in the lack of blitzing success against 250 pound TEs and 210 pound RBs.  Its pretty easy to understand.

 

Maybe the other LBer should be a Belechick 250 pound guy.  Maybe we play 3 safeties and Willis blitzes more...at 215 pounds...and Moore at 210.   

 

We don't have four  230 to 250 pound LBers to come from the QB at different angles.  Tried that, and we found Bjoern Werner. Erik Walden, DQ Jackson, and Jabaal Sheard and John Simon the one year with Pags/Ballard..

[Colt.45]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'm not arguing any of this.

 

 

If we had switched things up against Lamar and he still torched us, I'd be right there with you. We didn't. The teams that did blitz him a ton had significant success, which is, at the very least, proof of concept. (And again, this was our second go round with him.)

 

 

No, he didn't. And that's why I'm offering it as an example. We mostly played zone coverage, Lamar had what would be a career best game for most other QBs in just the second half. And the counter argument is 'we don't have the horses to do something different.' We don't have the horses to do what we did!! Which is why Lamar Jackson had literally the best half+ any QB has ever had in the NFL. And we did it anyway.

 

That's not the only game, either. The Jets game was substandard, against second and third string QBs whose names I can't even remember off the top of my head.

 

 

This is one of those extremes, and we should probably say something about it. Our defense needs better players, but it's not some bottom of the barrel unit with no good players on it. We're not talking about the 2011 Colts (who still never played as poorly as our defense did in the second half of the Ravens game). In fact, we have three defensive Pro Bowlers, who were all on the field against Baltimore.

 

I respect your opinion and maybe you're right. I disagree with it but who cares.

Good debate.

[Colt.45]

3 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Assistant/position coaches can now interview for D or O coordinator positions without employer approval.  OTOH, Schwartz is defined as a Senior defensive assistant.   So, it may come down to a Goodell decision based upon the Titans coaching 'depth chart' they filed with the league-

 

Tweet:

Jonathan Jones

@jjones9

The NFL will now require all teams to submit in writing its coaching organizational structure and job description. If there's a debate when it comes to someone interviewing for another job, Goodell will decide

2:39 PM · May 19, 2020

 

 

What does Schwartz run these days and do we have the bodies to execute?

 

We've invested heavily in Moore, DeFo, and Leonard. All sentinels in the scheme Ballard chose. Anything that calls for those guys strengths to be diminished will be the reason for aches and pains. 

[Colt.45]

8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Look, folks need to realize that we committed $60M to a 218 pound LBer.  The trade off is in the lack of blitzing success against 250 pound TEs and 210 pound RBs.  Its pretty easy to understand.

 

Maybe the other LBer should be a Belechick 250 pound guy.  Maybe we play 3 safeties and Willis blitzes more...at 215 pounds...and Moore at 210.   

 

We don't have four  230 to 250 pound LBers to come from the QB at different angles.  Tried that, and we found Bjoern Werner. Erik Walden, DQ Jackson, and Jabaal Sheard and John Simon the one year with Pags/Ballard..

Exactly. We hear it all the time. It's a numbers game.

Whether in scheme, or in the front office. When you commit to a philosophy and spend money accordingly, doing something else at a whim isn't easy. If the 218lb backer (with long arms, don't forget the long arms) was brought in specifically to play a role in this defense, then you suddenly want him doing something else that negates his skillset, you'll be hurting quickly.

 

Has anyone forgotten what happened when we asked Dwight freaking Freeney to do things that were not his strength?

[coming on strong]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If you have 2 OLB's that are fast like a Von Miller when Denver had that great D that also can shut down teams. We don't use Leonard right and he still has been an All-pro.

thats true look how the cowboys use parsons as a linebacker and rotate him as a pass rusher .    leonard is amazing at blitzing and he is not used

[Hawkeyecolt]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

This is actually a really good example of a game that highlights Eberflus' failure to adjust, IMO. Lamar Jackson did the same thing in the second half of that game that he did in the second half of our game against him in 2020. Except he was even better this time. He was 30-33 for 363 yards and 4TDs after halftime. There's no excusing that.

 

And then Lamar spent the rest of the season getting absolutely shut down by heavy blitzes, because he struggles to see, diagnose, and react to pressure, and their OL struggles to pick up extra rushers. The rest of the Ravens opponents figured out that they would rather live and die by blitzing Lamar, because it forces him to do something he's not good at, than sit back and play coverage. 

 

Edit: We blitzed Lamar 9 times in that game. On their final four possessions, they scored 4 TDs, and never even got to third down. 

The Colts were playing DB’s they signed off the street that week by the time the 4th Q came around. If Rodrigo doesn’t miss 3 FG’s they still win. 

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, Hawkeyecolt said:

The Colts were playing DB’s they signed off the street that week by the time the 4th Q came around. If Rodrigo doesn’t miss 3 FG’s they still win. 

 

If you think my complaint has anything to do with the final score, then I don't know what to tell you. 

 

I guess maybe you should look at the Jets game. We won by two scores, the defense was still very problematic, against bad QBs.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

11 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

thats true look how the cowboys use parsons as a linebacker and rotate him as a pass rusher .    leonard is amazing at blitzing and he is not used

Leonard isnt aas big but could be used in similiar ways. That’s why I am excited to see what a fresh perspective brings. Hopefully it’s someone from the outside.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, Superman said:

 

If you think my complaint has anything to do with the final score, then I don't know what to tell you. 

 

I guess maybe you should look at the Jets game. We won by two scores, the defense was still very problematic, against bad QBs.

It’s scary how close that game almost came down to a onside kick. They almost made it a one score game.

[DougDew]

6 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Leonard isnt aas big but could be used in similiar ways. That’s why I am excited to see what a fresh perspective brings. Hopefully it’s someone from the outside.

It would be interesting to see if Parsons beats TEs one on one or uses his speed to proceed untouched because the other Dallas dlineman are occupying the blockers.  Agility may be a factor with Parsons as well.

[Superman]

Now our blitzers aren't good enough? Seriously? 

[Scott Pennock]

3 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

I know its not going to happen, but the future contract for Q is going to be a big financial anchor to this team moving ahead

No worse than in the past with all the money tied up in Manning, Harrison, Wayne and Edge......gotta spend it somewhere! LOL

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

6 minutes ago, Superman said:

Now our blitzers aren't good enough? Seriously? 

We have 2 great blitzers. Just go look at Leonard and Moore’s sack numbers. I understand why Moore’s was down this year with his ankle but we didn’t use Moore enough. 

[Colt.45]

@Shadow_Creek is there something confusing about what i said? Ask and we can talk it through. Maybe i can get it across or you can convince me of your PoV

[Hawkeyecolt]

15 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

If you think my complaint has anything to do with the final score, then I don't know what to tell you. 

 

I guess maybe you should look at the Jets game. We won by two scores, the defense was still very problematic, against bad QBs.

With what he had in the secondary at the end of the game, it was the one game I just flushed.  

[Scott Pennock]

There are 12 pages in this thread and forgive me for not wanting to read them all, so I pose this question - has anyone mentioned the newly fired Mike Zimmer as Defensive Coordinator? He's a 4-3 guy and has run and/or had pretty solid defenses with the Cowboys, Bengals and the Falcons (1 year in between Dallas and Cincy) - then of course as the head man in Minnysoda they've been pretty solid defensively the entire time he was there as well.....

[DougDew]

@throwing BBZshowed the blitz success rate of Oke and Leonard in another thread.  I think they were close to the bottom of the NFL for all LBers.   Sort of discourages calling a blitz using LBers.

 

 

[DougDew]

58 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

What does Schwartz run these days and do we have the bodies to execute?

 

We've invested heavily in Moore, DeFo, and Leonard. All sentinels in the scheme Ballard chose. Anything that calls for those guys strengths to be diminished will be the reason for aches and pains. 

There have been more than a few people here who would wish to upgrade from Oke and Willis.  I being very consistent about it beginning midway through 2020 season.

 

Others quote their poor grades throughout the year, and past years, but don't seem to come to that conclusion.

[GoColts8818]

5 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

There are 12 pages in this thread and forgive me for not wanting to read them all, so I pose this question - has anyone mentioned the newly fired Mike Zimmer as Defensive Coordinator? He's a 4-3 guy and has run and/or had pretty solid defenses with the Cowboys, Bengals and the Falcons (1 year in between Dallas and Cincy) - then of course as the head man in Minnysoda they've been pretty solid defensively the entire time he was there as well.....

Yep that’s who I want but I am expecting them to hire Alan Williams from within but I am hoping I am wrong.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

@throwing BBZshowed the blitz success rate of Oke and Leonard in another thread.  I think they were close to the bottom of the NFL for all LBers.   Sort of discourages calling a blitz using LBers.

 

 

Leonard had a bad ankle this year so that’s understandable.

[MikeCurtis]

11 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

No worse than in the past with all the money tied up in Manning, Harrison, Wayne and Edge......gotta spend it somewhere! LOL

I get that, but how many touchdowns will Q have?

 

 

 

Is good enough at 7M for Guard, vs 20M for Q  - 13M

 

Would 13M difference, used for a playmaker at TE, make this team better?   I think it would

 

What if we started the year with Webb and Glow at guards?

 

If we had LT play, and had some health, this would be a good OL 

 

I just wonder how we fit it all in

 

 

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Leonard had a bad ankle this year so that’s understandable.

And that's what we're talking about, why more blitzes were not called.  Flus knew that.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

5 minutes ago, DougDew said:

And that's what we're talking about, why more blitzes were not called.  Flus knew that.

I said above I can understand this year. Doesn’t excuse not using Moore though.

[Colt.45]

7 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

I said above I can understand this year. Doesn’t excuse not using Moore though.

 

When Moore was blitzed this year, how many times did he get home? Don't act like Moore wasnt blitzed, they sent him after the passer a few times and i remember being thoroughly underwhelmed each time because it looked like the offense was expecting it for one. Secondly, the gaps were not as open for him to win because again....the rest of the line wasnt winning. It's not simply a matter of sending an extra body, if the opposing line can successfully corral that blitzed, and your backend gets compromised anyway then what's the use of doing it over and over again?

 

 

Look, i know we are all fans and like to complain and whatnot but once again, if we (ordinary basic aGG fans) can tell what needs to happen, you think a smart dude like Matt Eberflus can't? If you admit he's smart and can tell, then the question becomes, WHY? Why isn't he doing more of what you ask....well, may i redirect you to the answer i've given several times, talent.

 

Enough of me in this thread, best luck to the coach. Look for quick success for that guy in Chicago, especially if he can get a serious like-minded staff put together. They have pieces on defense, they have some nice ones on offense, and most importantly they have a young moldable talent at QB. They might rise FAST. Sirianni made the playoffs in his 1st year, i would not be surprised if Flus does same, even though he's in a tougher division than the NFC East.

[DougDew]

nvm

[Scott Pennock]

41 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Yep that’s who I want but I am expecting them to hire Alan Williams from within but I am hoping I am wrong.

Well Alan Williams and our LB Coach are rumored to be following Flus to Chicago. So I would be willing to bet we would have to offer to one or both of them an upgrade for them to stay?

[Scott Pennock]

41 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I get that, but how many touchdowns will Q have?

 

 

 

Is good enough at 7M for Guard, vs 20M for Q  - 13M

 

Would 13M difference, used for a playmaker at TE, make this team better?   I think it would

 

What if we started the year with Webb and Glow at guards?

 

If we had LT play, and had some health, this would be a good OL 

 

I just wonder how we fit it all in

 

 

I'm still of the opine that we move Nelson to LT - like he went to ND to play and was better than the other guy playing in SF currently BUT the line worked better with him at G......move him to LT and pay the LT money. Problem solved. Find another G that is solid to sandwich in between Nelson and Kelly

 

But I do agree that money COULD be spent on talent on the outside