Lack of Creativity

[AustexColt]

Watching the Playoffs I think that we lack creativity. Here are some questions:

- Reich is absorbed as OC/QB coach that he has no time to develop creative plays. 

- Reich's staff does not have these young creative offensive minds from college. Creativity all around.

- Reich misses Sirianni challenging and zesty attitude. We need someone to light a fire under the players during a game.

[IndySouthsider]

11 hours ago, AustexColt said:

Watching the Playoffs I think that we lack creativity. Here are some questions:

- Reich is absorbed as OC/QB coach that he has no time to develop creative plays. 

- Reich's staff does not have these young creative offensive minds from college. Creativity all around.

- Reich misses Sirianni challenging and zesty attitude. We need someone to light a fire under the players during a game.

Sigh. What was zesty and challenging about the check down offense for three quarters by Philly!?

[coltsfan_canada]

 

Philly zesty offense was falling all over lol

[Myles]

16 hours ago, AustexColt said:

Watching the Playoffs I think that we lack creativity. Here are some questions:

- Reich is absorbed as OC/QB coach that he has no time to develop creative plays. 

- Reich's staff does not have these young creative offensive minds from college. Creativity all around.

- Reich misses Sirianni challenging and zesty attitude. We need someone to light a fire under the players during a game.

I agree.   I don't think anything will change until Reich gives up calling the plays.     

[throwing BBZ]

19 hours ago, AustexColt said:

Watching the Playoffs I think that we lack creativity. Here are some questions:

- Reich is absorbed as OC/QB coach that he has no time to develop creative plays. 

- Reich's staff does not have these young creative offensive minds from college. Creativity all around.

- Reich misses Sirianni challenging and zesty attitude. We need someone to light a fire under the players during a game.

 

  He could copy any of a hundred creative plays ran over the last ten years.

  Reich = meat'n taters

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Doubt Reich's lack of play creativity is because he's too busy doing other things. 

[IinD]

It's funny because we'd get creative at times with pre snap motions and/or misdirection and then never see it again for the rest of that game or a couple games and then it would reappear for a minute. 

 

Sometimes with good results for a big gain or an important 4th down in a game. But then we'd put it away and go straight basic on the play calling again.

[FuedinHatfield]

1 minute ago, IinD said:

It's funny because we'd get creative at times with pre snap motions and/or misdirection and then never see it again for the rest of that game or a couple games and then it would reappear for a minute. 

 

Sometimes with good results for a big gain or an important 4th down in a game. But then we'd put it away and go straight basic on the play calling again.

What play should we call Frank? We need to get creative. We need a really high percentage play Carson so I'm thinking Hines up the gut. 

[IinD]

Just now, FuedinHatfield said:

What play should we call Frank? We need to get creative. We need a really high percentage play Carson so I'm thinking Hines up the gut. 

Uggh ..

 

And we'd always bunch the line up nice and tight and run straight up the clogged middle.

[FuedinHatfield]

1 minute ago, IinD said:

Uggh ..

 

And we'd always bunch the line up nice and tight and run straight up the clogged middle.

He has no idea how to use Hines or simply forgets. But I honestly doubt Carson could hit him underneath without over throwing him.

[EastStreet]

I 1000% agree that our O is about as conservative and stale as can be. 

But I don't think Nick's departure has changed a lot.

We've been soggy toast for years. 

[Colt.45]

You can have a creative offensive plan and without the right man pulling the trigger, your creativity is for the dogs to lap up.

Reich's a creative master. Receiving targets running free all over town and a QB who can't/won't take what's given to him. How creative did Josh McD look with Cam? How creative did McVay look when he went to Jared? What about Bruce Arians, how creative was he when he didnt have HoF/top 10 level QBs?

I realize there's an inclination to slam Reich but his offenses have done things they have no business doing considering the level of receiving talent AND QBs he's had available. He's run rings around some superb defensive minds. The thing we saw Buffalo do to New England? Reich's offense wasnt that efficient against that team but he ran rings about BB too to a clear degree. He ran rings about Baltimore, Tampa, etc. The QB has to execute the plan. *shrugs....ours doesnt.

 

[TimetobringDfence!]

22 hours ago, AustexColt said:

Watching the Playoffs I think that we lack creativity. Here are some questions:

- Reich is absorbed as OC/QB coach that he has no time to develop creative plays. 

- Reich's staff does not have these young creative offensive minds from college. Creativity all around.

- Reich misses Sirianni challenging and zesty attitude. We need someone to light a fire under the players during a game.

We definitely play too vanilla on both sides of the ball. Frank used to use tightends way better in his successful Philly and Luck days. Carson throws a high ball and does better with bigger targets just like Rivers did through out his career. But Phil had was better presnap awareness than Carson. (That's were Frank should help Wentz grow but that didn't happen.) We never gave Micheal Strachan 6'5'' w/a godly wing span a fair chance where I believe he would have shined. He got all the praise from Mathis, Chad Johnson, and Micheal Irvin,he would have given Wentz that bigger guy to help his poor accuracy. We rolled with Campbell way too much well sleeping on 17. He showed up in week 1 against Seattle and was hardly given a chance after that. It's time to move on from most our WRs beside Pittman and Strachan. Pascal is alright depth for a cheap price. We need more out of our TEs or bring in one more guy, Frank dropped the ball with creativity there.

[TimetobringDfence!]

2 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

Doubt Reich's lack of play creativity is because he's too busy doing other things. 

Frank is too vanilla and I wonder if he cast that conservative shadow over Flus at times. But we play way too much zone when our secondary dary has proved they can man up and play good. Zone is too easy to beat for us to run it as often as we do. Why can't we every stop TEs? They always beat us for 5 to 15 yards gains on the seams all year.. 

[Colt.45]

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I 1000% agree that our O is about as conservative and stale as can be. 

But I don't think Nick's departure has changed a lot.

We've been soggy toast for years. 

 

You run a conservative offense when your QB shows he cant handle anything beyond that. I know what the Chiefs offense looked like under Alex Smith, i saw the struggles even when Kelce was the entire offense, saw the struggles even when Tyreek Hill was a legit receiving weapon. Saw the potential for Reid's offense to bloom with the right guy pulling the strings. And Alex Smith was better than Wentz.

I think we will always disagree about Reich. I think we're incredibly lucky we fell into him and not Jon Gruden or Matt Rhule or whoever else CB had in mind. This offense could easily be bottom 5/10 in the league under someone else. The cupboard isnt FULL, there isnt a pro bowl talent at any skill position save RB. There certainly isnt a star QB calling the shots. Conservative and stale, yeah but who're your offensive pieces? A left guard and a running back....in 2021? Good luck getting a dynamic offense out of that.

[EastStreet]

6 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

You can have a creative offensive plan and without the right man pulling the trigger, your creativity is for the dogs to lap up.

Reich's a creative master. Receiving targets running free all over town and a QB who can't/won't take what's given to him. How creative did Josh McD look with Cam? How creative did McVay look when he went to Jared? What about Bruce Arians, how creative was he when he didnt have HoF/top 10 level QBs?

I realize there's an inclination to slam Reich but his offenses have done things they have no business doing considering the level of receiving talent AND QBs he's had available. He's run rings around some superb defensive minds. The thing we saw Buffalo do to New England? Reich's offense wasnt that efficient against that team but he ran rings about BB too to a clear degree. He ran rings about Baltimore, Tampa, etc. The QB has to execute the plan. *shrugs....ours doesnt.

 

Sorry, but I just don't see this as accurate in a lot of areas. 

 

Creative Master? Holy smokes that's hilarious. We're one of the heaviest possession and short type Os in the league. We've seen rare wrinkles, but they were very rare. Our success over good teams were highly related to turnover margin and OL/run. Ds have played up on us for the past 3 years because our O is predictable. 

[EastStreet]

5 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

 

You run a conservative offense when your QB shows he cant handle anything beyond that. I know what the Chiefs offense looked like under Alex Smith, i saw the struggles even when Kelce was the entire offense, saw the struggles even when Tyreek Hill was a legit receiving weapon. Saw the potential for Reid's offense to bloom with the right guy pulling the strings. And Alex Smith was better than Wentz.

I think we will always disagree about Reich. I think we're incredibly lucky we fell into him and not Jon Gruden or Matt Rhule or whoever else CB had in mind. This offense could easily be bottom 5/10 in the league under someone else. The cupboard isnt FULL, there isnt a pro bowl talent at any skill position save RB. There certainly isnt a star QB calling the shots. Conservative and stale, yeah but who're your offensive pieces? A left guard and a running back....in 2021? Good luck getting a dynamic offense out of that.

 

You tailor your O around the talent you have. Wentz is not a quick trigger short passer. But that's 95% of what Reich calls. 

For two years in a row now, we've been top 10 in deep ball accuracy/efficiency, but very low on deep attempts. That's scheme, or lack there of. 

 

We've ridden our OL and the run game for 3 years now. The pass game and play calling hasn't really changed through 3 QBs. Same plays over, and over, and over, again. Reich turned 5-10 TY into a possession WR lol. Reich has forgot about TEs as 2nd level options. He's been limited mostly to sideline and flat possession routes with RB passing as his go-tos.... 

 

Reich only called plays in one other stop, and he wasn't good there either. Sure his simpleton plays will work better with better talent, but that's true for every scheme.

[Fluke_33]

 

Too much creativity can turn out bad.   Try watching this to the end. It gets weird. 

[Colt.45]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

You tailor your O around the talent you have. Wentz is not a quick trigger short passer. But that's 95% of what Reich calls. 

For two years in a row now, we've been top 10 in deep ball accuracy/efficiency, but very low on deep attempts. That's scheme, or lack there of. 

 

We've ridden our OL and the run game for 3 years now. The pass game and play calling hasn't really changed through 3 QBs. Same plays over, and over, and over, again. Reich turned 5-10 TY into a possession WR lol. Reich has forgot about TEs as 2nd level options. He's been limited mostly to sideline and flat possession routes with RB passing as his go-tos.... 

 

Reich only called plays in one other stop, and he wasn't good there either. Sure his simpleton plays will work better with better talent, but that's true for every scheme.

 

Yeah, every scheme works when you have talent. Suddenly you look magical. I dont get the while creativity argument when the guy's offensive numbers are consistently in the top half/top10 of the league with arguably worse talent. Way worse talent.

We've ridden the line and the run game because that's what the GM wants, it's what the fans want....and yet folks still cry for more of that when the dude dares have the QB throw 40x. I dont get the arguments at all.

 

What's a creative offense? There's no amount of scheming that's going to have a subpar QB looking excellent for an entire season. Rarely happens. The brightest creative minds in the league like Kyle Shanahan  have done worse with better talent. 

 

If we look at only the Peyton years, how creative was that offense? Well, we know it was simple as anything, predictable and simple. All the OCs Luck had and they were never much of anything if you go by the fan comments and whatnot. Fans complain many times i am just not seeing it. What creativity are you talking about? Has TY got open or not? How great have these tightends been? Whenever Mo Alie Cox was featured, what'd he do apart from show he wasnt ready to be a main feature? For me the creativity of the man's scheme is evident by the numbers and the questions it poses for DCs consistently....the fact that his best receiving  weapon has been TY should not be glossed over when you compare him to offensive minds who have kelce, hill, deebo, etc....players who are coach makers. The Cowboys have a star RB, three #1 wides, a star TE, a much ballyhooed OC YET the Colts would give me more concern as a DC than that team.

 

Structurally there're play designs Reich crafts that are as fine as any by the best offensive minds in the league. Thankfully his boss knows that. 

 

 

[EastStreet]

3 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

 

Yeah, every scheme works when you have talent. Suddenly you look magical. I dont get the while creativity argument when the guy's offensive numbers are consistently in the top half/top10 of the league with arguably worse talent. Way worse talent.

We've ridden the line and the run game because that's what the GM wants, it's what the fans want....and yet folks still cry for more of that when the dude dares have the QB throw 40x. I dont get the arguments at all.

 

What's a creative offense? There's no amount of scheming that's going to have a subpar QB looking excellent for an entire season. Rarely happens. The brightest creative minds in the league like Kyle Shanahan  have done worse with better talent. 

 

If we look at only the Peyton years, how creative was that offense? Well, we know it was simple as anything, predictable and simple. All the OCs Luck had and they were never much of anything if you go by the fan comments and whatnot. Fans complain many times i am just not seeing it. What creativity are you talking about? Has TY got open or not? How great have these tightends been? Whenever Mo Alie Cox was featured, what'd he do apart from show he wasnt ready to be a main feature? For me the creativity of the man's scheme is evident by the numbers and the questions it poses for DCs consistently....the fact that his best receiving  weapon has been TY should not be glossed over when you compare him to offensive minds who have kelce, hill, deebo, etc....players who are coach makers. The Cowboys have a star RB, three #1 wides, a star TE, a much ballyhooed OC YET the Colts would give me more concern as a DC than that team.

 

Structurally there're play designs Reich crafts that are as fine as any by the best offensive minds in the league. Thankfully his boss knows that. 

 

 

 

When you have two QBs two years straight that are top 10 in deep ball efficiency, yet rarely throw deep... that's a lack of creativity.

 

When you have a WR like Pittman, who is one of the best in contested catches, and rarely throw deep to him, that's a lack of creativity.

 

When you have a TE that has shown to be incredibly successful on the 2nd and 3rd level routes like sails, yet rarely use him, or the route, that's a lack of creativity.

 

When you take a 5-10 WR (TY), who still has speed to burn the seam, and you use him primarily as a possession WR in the flat and shallow sideline, that's a lack of creativity.

 

When you're offense overly relies on short possession passing and running, and Ds forget about defending 50% of the field, that's a lack of creativity. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

3 hours ago, Colt.45 said:

You can have a creative offensive plan and without the right man pulling the trigger, your creativity is for the dogs to lap up.

Reich's a creative master. Receiving targets running free all over town and a QB who can't/won't take what's given to him. How creative did Josh McD look with Cam? How creative did McVay look when he went to Jared? What about Bruce Arians, how creative was he when he didnt have HoF/top 10 level QBs?

I realize there's an inclination to slam Reich but his offenses have done things they have no business doing considering the level of receiving talent AND QBs he's had available. He's run rings around some superb defensive minds. The thing we saw Buffalo do to New England? Reich's offense wasnt that efficient against that team but he ran rings about BB too to a clear degree. He ran rings about Baltimore, Tampa, etc. The QB has to execute the plan. *shrugs....ours doesnt.

 

 

Well if our QB is so unable to run his plays WHY DID HE TELL BALLARD TO GET HIM???

[EastStreet]

41 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

Well if our QB is so unable to run his plays WHY DID HE TELL BALLARD TO GET HIM???

 

Yup. Reich worshipers can't have it both ways. He either has some onus on coaching, or decision making, or both.

 

[TimetobringDfence!]

4 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

You tailor your O around the talent you have. Wentz is not a quick trigger short passer. But that's 95% of what Reich calls. 

For two years in a row now, we've been top 10 in deep ball accuracy/efficiency, but very low on deep attempts. That's scheme, or lack there of. 

 

We've ridden our OL and the run game for 3 years now. The pass game and play calling hasn't really changed through 3 QBs. Same plays over, and over, and over, again. Reich turned 5-10 TY into a possession WR lol. Reich has forgot about TEs as 2nd level options. He's been limited mostly to sideline and flat possession routes with RB passing as his go-tos.... 

 

Reich only called plays in one other stop, and he wasn't good there either. Sure his simpleton plays will work better with better talent, but that's true for every scheme.

The problem is our line regressed and can't pass block long enough for deep plays to develop..

[Malakai432]

14 hours ago, coltsfan_canada said:

 

Philly zesty offense was falling all over lol

Ohhhhh, that looks tasty.  Lol!

[2006Coltsbestever]

15 hours ago, coltsfan_canada said:

 

Philly zesty offense was falling all over lol

[EastStreet]

28 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

The problem is our line regressed and can't pass block long enough for deep plays to develop..

That, and our WRs/TEs just don't get great separation overall. That's partly on scheme though. 

There's plenty of blame to go around, but Wentz is far from the only reason.

 

 

[Thunderbolt]

I agree with your assessment "AustexColt", not inovative enough to be creative in the offense despite being laud as an offensive genius.  Heck, JT could have easily eclipse the 2K rushing yards mark...If he was a little more creative.  Got your back.

[TimetobringDfence!]

8 hours ago, EastStreet said:

That, and our WRs/TEs just don't get great separation overall. That's partly on scheme though. 

There's plenty of blame to go around, but Wentz is far from the only reason.

 

 

Yes Frank tried put to much on him in and didn't scheme to his abilities. Would have liked to see more PA misdirection with rollouts and bootlegs to keep him out of the constant collapsing pockets. And I believe we need taller WRs and TEs for Wentzs pass placement, tends to throw a little high.

[lollygagger8]

The only "decent" plays that Reich calls, are the first 15 scripted plays. 

 

[throwing BBZ]

18 hours ago, IinD said:

Uggh ..

 

And we'd always bunch the line up nice and tight and run straight up the clogged middle.

 

 We Were really knocking them of the line doing this for what, half the seasonish.

 When it became less successful Frank, with Wentz, didn't show a good plan B. 

[shasta519]

On 1/16/2022 at 8:22 PM, AustexColt said:

Watching the Playoffs I think that we lack creativity. Here are some questions:

- Reich is absorbed as OC/QB coach that he has no time to develop creative plays. 

- Reich's staff does not have these young creative offensive minds from college. Creativity all around.

- Reich misses Sirianni challenging and zesty attitude. We need someone to light a fire under the players during a game.

Colts lack creativity because they don’t have Sirianni? Now I have heard it all. 

[Rhodelesstraveled]

On 1/16/2022 at 7:22 PM, AustexColt said:

Watching the Playoffs I think that we lack creativity. Here are some questions:

- Reich is absorbed as OC/QB coach that he has no time to develop creative plays. 

- Reich's staff does not have these young creative offensive minds from college. Creativity all around.

- Reich misses Sirianni challenging and zesty attitude. We need someone to light a fire under the players during a game.

Disagree.  We have creativity.  We have an execution problem and it begins with the porous OL and terrible QB play.  

[AnotherQB]

Why didn't the Colts run more tempo?  Seems like everytime we ran Tempo during the season good things happen?  

[John Waylon]

17 hours ago, Colt.45 said:

Reich's a creative master.

 

 

I bet he said it with a straight face, too. 

[strt182]

Players have to be able to execute the vanilla plays continuously before you can get creative. Thats like trying to run before you walk. 

 

Remember the KISS rule.  

[EastStreet]

10 hours ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

Yes Frank tried put to much on him in and didn't scheme to his abilities. Would have liked to see more PA misdirection with rollouts and bootlegs to keep him out of the constant collapsing pockets. And I believe we need taller WRs and TEs for Wentzs pass placement, tends to throw a little high.

 

Yup. The lack of QB motion, and also WR/RB motion, is pretty sad given our personnel. I'd love to see more motion from everyone, and also more tempo. Tempo is just rarely a Reich thing... unless were down late. 

 

We have a lot of height though. We just don't use it. We turned TY into a possession WR lol.... totally wasting his last years. 

[TimetobringDfence!]

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Yup. The lack of QB motion, and also WR/RB motion, is pretty sad given our personnel. I'd love to see more motion from everyone, and also more tempo. Tempo is just rarely a Reich thing... unless were down late. 

 

We have a lot of height though. We just don't use it. We turned TY into a possession WR lol.... totally wasting his last years. 

Yeah TY is definitely more of a slot or gadget player now... Strachan should have got more reps opposite MJP with Hines, TY, Campbell and Pascal as slot rotational players. 

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

Yeah TY is definitely more of a slot or gadget player now... Strachan should have got more reps opposite MJP with Hines, TY, Campbell and Pascal as slot rotational players. 

TY would be fine at Z if we used him like a typical Z (motion, 9s, slants, etc.). But we use him like an X and TE lol...... 

I also think TY would kill it at slot. He's lost a step, and is not the 4.3s guy he used to be, but he's still 4.4s and plenty fast enough to burn LBs, and even DBs on certain routes. 

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

On 1/17/2022 at 11:30 PM, TimetobringDfence! said:

The problem is our line regressed and can't pass block long enough for deep plays to develop..

our high dollar o-line is a huge disappointment in pass blocking

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

1 minute ago, DEFENSE said:

our high dollar o-line is a huge disappointment in pass blocking

ballard put high pay in the wrong places, another failure for him