Jump to content
Indianapolis Colts
Indianapolis Colts Fan Forum

O-line changes


joeb
 Share

Recommended Posts

Fisher should go. He is just not the same player anymore. Maybe he can heal up during the off-season. Maybe he's done. Glowinski i think should be replaced.  The other 3 should be good.

  • Like 1
  • Sad 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

After the draft Ballard chose to go with someone he knew, namely Fisher. Given Davenport's poor play I would say that Fisher did help us get some wins. At 32 will Fisher ask for a huge contract? If he does he walks but then what are our alternatives? We need two LT for 2022. Open the wallet and get it done. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now that Christian Darrisaw was starting to play well for the Vikes...... 

 

It could be that Ballard made a bad decision about the LT position twice last spring.  Took Fisher over Leno, and Paye over Darrisaw.

 

Had an opportunity to take a good LT twice, and missed/passed both times.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm more than okay with moving on from Fisher and Glow. (As long as they can replace Fisher with someone better than Pryor, etc, and I won't hold my breath.) Bring back Reed and either have Reed or Pinter replace Glow. Pinter could backup Kelly and possibly play Guard if needed. I wouldn't mind seeing Ballard trying to explore Pinter during camp and try him out at LT to see how he does. But finding a solid and  future LT needs to happen in 2022.

  • Confused 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We are paying Kelly a ton of money and Pinter filled in I believe with better PFF numbers than Kelley who I was not that impressed with this year. If we could trade him for a 3rd round draft pick we would have enough money to sign a good WR, TE or CB and pick up another center in FA or the draft.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, AustexColt said:

After the draft Ballard chose to go with someone he knew, namely Fisher. Given Davenport's poor play I would say that Fisher did help us get some wins. At 32 will Fisher ask for a huge contract? If he does he walks but then what are our alternatives? We need two LT for 2022. Open the wallet and get it done. 

One of those will probably be Pryor 

  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Dark Superman said:

I'm more than okay with moving on from Fisher and Glow. (As long as they can replace Fisher with someone better than Pryor, etc, and I won't hold my breath.) Bring back Reed and either have Reed or Pinter replace Glow. Pinter could backup Kelly and possibly play Guard if needed. I wouldn't mind seeing Ballard trying to explore Pinter during camp and try him out at LT to see how he does. But finding a solid and  future LT needs to happen in 2022.

 

Glow had arguably his best year after being threatened.

Reed was given every opportunity to take the position, but wasn't all that good when handed the spot. 

 

Doubt Glow will be expensive to keep. Reed is not bad at all, but he'd likely be about the same price. And if the same price, I'd take Glow 10 out of 10 times. 

 

Fisher needs to go. 

Pinter does not have the strength for LT right now. Maybe after another year or two of S&C.

Pryor looked the part at both T spots when given the opportunity. He's much more suited for LT than Pinter. 

I'd be OK with trading Kelly and letting Pinter have a shot at C. Would love to add a 2nd round pick.

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Love Reed want him at RG, Im ok Pryor at LT since Q doesnt want to go there but wouldnt mind Smith trying his hand and Pryor at RT.....I think Pinter is better then Kelly not sure what we get in exchange but think Ryan ready to move on after all that went down.  I think Gow signs elsewhere and for a bit more then we resign Reed for (Could be wrong).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m all for trading kelly. We can’t have that much cap tied up on a guard and center. I think Pinter would fill in just fine. I don’t think it would be difficult to trade him. Maybe he’d restructure his contract with a new team. He’s still a very good center in the league. I’d try for a late 2nd but settle for a 3rd

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

We trade Kelly and then Pinter plays like absolute crap. How well would that bode for us? It’s a possibility. 

Yea I understand that point but Kelly wasn’t actually playing that great anyway. Just don’t see how we tie that much cap up on LG C and RT. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, boo2202 said:

I’m all for trading kelly. We can’t have that much cap tied up on a guard and center. I think Pinter would fill in just fine. I don’t think it would be difficult to trade him. Maybe he’d restructure his contract with a new team. He’s still a very good center in the league. I’d try for a late 2nd but settle for a 3rd

I would b interested to know what is the average salary of the Olines left in the playoffs?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, joeb said:

Fisher should go. He is just not the same player anymore. Maybe he can heal up during the off-season. Maybe he's done. Glowinski i think should be replaced.  The other 3 should be good.


Why anyone thinks Fisher won’t get better is a mystery to me.   Both Ballard and a fisher said the last 10 percent was the hardest and the last part of a complete recovery.   It didn’t come soon enough for us this year, which sucks.   But there’s no reason to think he won’t be better next year.   In his last year with KC, 2020,  he had the highest PFF grade of his career before getting hurt in late January of 21 in the AFC championship game.   He should be better in 22.  Maybe it’s for the Colts, maybe it’s for another team?

 

As for Glow, he’s only coming off the best year of his career.   Maybe we decide we either can’t afford him,  or Reed would be almost as good for much, much less.   Either way, I don’t think performance is the issue, I think his price will be the deciding factor.  

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I would b interested to know what is the average salary of the Olines left in the playoffs?

That would be interesting to know. 
Wouldn’t think it would be more than what we’re about to have tied up after Nelson’s deal

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, boo2202 said:

That would be interesting to know. 
Wouldn’t think it would be more than what we’re about to have tied up after Nelson’s deal

I know Cleveland has 2 very expensive guards and a center and right tackle. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:


Why anyone thinks Fisher won’t get better is a mystery to me.   Both Ballard and a fisher said the last 10 percent was the hardest and the last part of a complete recovery.   It didn’t come soon enough for us this year, which sucks.   But there’s no reason to think he won’t be better next year.   In his last year with KC, 2020,  he had the highest PFF grade of his career before getting hurt in late January of 21 in the AFC championship game.   He should be better in 22.  Maybe it’s for the Colts, maybe it’s for another team?

 

As for Glow, he’s only coming off the best year of his career.   Maybe we decide we either can’t afford him,  or Reed would be almost as good for much, much less.   Either way, I don’t think performance is the issue, I think his price will be the deciding factor.  

 

Fisher has always had questionable pass pro. Even last year. He's weak against decent bull rushers AND speed/edge guys.

It's true Fisher had a good year in 2020, but he's been called a draft spot underperformer his entire career. 

There's a reason why KC spent a lot of capital and $ to upgrade the spot and let Fisher go. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

How is chiefs oline only 14 million. They spent money last year in FA on that. Or am I reading that wrong.

They have mostly young guys. They replaced Fisher with Orlando Brown, who they gave up a 1st and other picks for. He was still on his rook contract, so cheap. They'll have to pay him though after the season. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

They have mostly young guys. They replaced Fisher with Orlando Brown, who they gave up a 1st and other picks for. He was still on his rook contract, so cheap. They'll have to pay him though after the season. 

Didnt they go sign more in FA. Thuney is his name. Hmm that seems cheap for a oline. We can see how the colts oline spending is hurting them. Only way you can do that is if your QB is on a rookie deal. They need to have the future LT on a rookie deal and be starting. Kelly would be a start if we traded him with Pinter on a rookie deal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Didnt they go sign more in FA. Thuney is his name. Hmm that seems cheap for a oline. We can see how the colts oline spending is hurting them. Only way you can do that is if your QB is on a rookie deal. They need to have the future LT on a rookie deal and be starting. Kelly would be a start if we traded him with Pinter on a rookie deal.

They signed Thuney to a big time deal, but he only cost them 4Mish this year. The rest of the contract is like 18M a year. 

Their number will go way up next season assuming they extend Brown. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Fisher has always had questionable pass pro. Even last year. He's weak against decent bull rushers AND speed/edge guys.

It's true Fisher had a good year in 2020, but he's been called a draft spot underperformer his entire career. 

There's a reason why KC spent a lot of capital and $ to upgrade the spot and let Fisher go. 

 


He’s an under performer only because he was the first overall pick in a weak draft.   
 

But Fisher had graded out as an NFL average LT most of his career.   So improvement over this year is not an unreasonable expectation.   

Ballard talked about Fisher three times in his presser.  Twice was more negative than Ballard normally is, but the last time was much more respectful and offered context to a difficult year for Fish.    My read is Fisher’s agent wants more than Ballard is willing to pay.  I think Ballard is telling the agent to bring his number down or he’ll shop elsewhere.   I think it’s possible that Ballard might prefer Pryor at $5-6 mill per than Fisher at $12-13 mill per.  Not that Pryor is  better, but that big a difference might be tempting. 
 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:


He’s an under performer only because he was the first overall pick in a weak draft.   
 

But Fisher had graded out as an NFL average LT most of his career.   So improvement over this year is not an unreasonable expectation.   

Ballard talked about Fisher three times in his presser.  Twice was more negative than Ballard normally is, but the last time was much more respectful and offered context to a difficult year for Fish.    My read is Fisher’s agent wants more than Ballard is willing to pay.  I think Ballard is telling the agent to bring his number down or he’ll shop elsewhere.   I think it’s possible that Ballard might prefer Pryor at $5-6 mill per than Fisher at $12-13 mill per.  Not that Pryor is  better, but that big a difference might be tempting. 

 

He's an underperformer plain and simple, and of course because of where he was drafted. 

But PFF has called him and average LT in several straight seasons, and his pass pro has a long history of criticism.

There's plenty of film out there, including last year (2020), showing Fisher struggling vs bull and wide rushes. 

 

Frankly, we don't need to argue. In short, didn't like the sign when it happened last spring, won't like a re-sign if it happens this spring... I don't care what the price is. I don't care what Ballard said last spring, don't care what he says now on Fisher.... He's not the guy (starting LT) for me. Nothing's going to change that... 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If Fisher is cheap, sign him again if you can't find anyone better, let Pryor/Smith/Fisher duke it out for LT and put the second best at RT and keep the third for depth.  Just depends how much Fisher wants.  He doesn't have a lot of negotiating room after his poor performance this year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, joeb said:

Fisher should go. He is just not the same player anymore. Maybe he can heal up during the off-season. Maybe he's done. Glowinski i think should be replaced.  The other 3 should be good.

Fisher sucks. Glow had a career year and was not much of an issue. 
 

Ryan Kelly on the other hand. As much as I like him, and feel for him given his family situation, the drop off to 2nd string isn’t much. He could be replaced and save money. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:


Why anyone thinks Fisher won’t get better is a mystery to me.   Both Ballard and a fisher said the last 10 percent was the hardest and the last part of a complete recovery.   It didn’t come soon enough for us this year, which sucks.   But there’s no reason to think he won’t be better next year.   In his last year with KC, 2020,  he had the highest PFF grade of his career before getting hurt in late January of 21 in the AFC championship game.   He should be better in 22.  Maybe it’s for the Colts, maybe it’s for another team?

 

As for Glow, he’s only coming off the best year of his career.   Maybe we decide we either can’t afford him,  or Reed would be almost as good for much, much less.   Either way, I don’t think performance is the issue, I think his price will be the deciding factor.  

I have to say Jags beat Fisher up pretty bad last week.  The whole O line got beat up pretty bad actually . For a 2 win team they played good.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:


Why anyone thinks Fisher won’t get better is a mystery to me.   Both Ballard and a fisher said the last 10 percent was the hardest and the last part of a complete recovery.   It didn’t come soon enough for us this year, which sucks.   But there’s no reason to think he won’t be better next year.   In his last year with KC, 2020,  he had the highest PFF grade of his career before getting hurt in late January of 21 in the AFC championship game.   He should be better in 22.  Maybe it’s for the Colts, maybe it’s for another team?

 

As for Glow, he’s only coming off the best year of his career.   Maybe we decide we either can’t afford him,  or Reed would be almost as good for much, much less.   Either way, I don’t think performance is the issue, I think his price will be the deciding factor.  

If you go back a couple years, you’ll find that Eric Fisher was listed on most list as a draft bust. He had maybe 2 decent years with KC, the last one being his best before getting hurt

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, DougDew said:

Now that Christian Darrisaw was starting to play well for the Vikes...... 

 

It could be that Ballard made a bad decision about the LT position twice last spring.  Took Fisher over Leno, and Paye over Darrisaw.

 

Had an opportunity to take a good LT twice, and missed/passed both times.

 

Darrisaw + Re-sign Autry, would be cheaper and better and you could also develop Dayo. We will probably need to address pass rush anyway again.

  • Like 1
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, DougDew said:

Now that Christian Darrisaw was starting to play well for the Vikes...... 

 

It could be that Ballard made a bad decision about the LT position twice last spring.  Took Fisher over Leno, and Paye over Darrisaw.

 

Had an opportunity to take a good LT twice, and missed/passed both times.

Pays is going to be good... Paye played well for us the 2nd half of the season. His worst game happened to be the Jags.
 

2nd, you say “Ballard made a bad decision about the LT position twice last spring”. Paye is not a LT. He’s a DE... two totally different positions. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Pays is going to be good... Paye played well for us the 2nd half of the season. His worst game happened to be the Jags.
 

2nd, you say “Ballard made a bad decision about the LT position twice last spring”. Paye is not a LT. He’s a DE... two totally different positions. 

Paye is already a “good” player and sets a hard edge but whether or not he’s going to be a big time sacker of the QB is far from settled.  That’s what we need him to be.  Is he going to develop the moves he needs to go along with his hands and motor?  

 

Some guys do.  Most guys don’t.

 

Right now he definitely lacks the skill level necessary to finish the QB consistently.  Right now he’s the same type of very good player who doesn’t excel at getting home as he was at MICH .  Overall I think he had 6 sacks in a lot of games played there.  Sure their scheme and the top of the BIG10 is tough, but there are bad teams and cupcake non con or two.

 

If Paye doesn’t rack up sacks, it looks like a bad miss not getting Darriasaw.  I really don’t have a feeling either way whether or not he will.  He’s got a lot of technique to develop, but he’s explosive and has great hands.  Time will tell.

 

I like Paye, but he’s going to need to get home next year for the Colts D to be anything other than what they are now.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

Pays is going to be good... Paye played well for us the 2nd half of the season. His worst game happened to be the Jags.
 

2nd, you say “Ballard made a bad decision about the LT position twice last spring”. Paye is not a LT. He’s a DE... two totally different positions. 

I know that Paye doesn't play LT. 

 

It seems that Ballard focusing on Fisher cost him the opportunity to get a LT that is better than Fisher twice.  Of the three opportunities he had to add a LT, he ended up with the worst of the three.

 

And got a run stopping DE playing a RDE pass rushing position from investing pick 21.  At least for the foreseeable future.

  • Like 1
  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not going to look up stats that will simply corroborate what I already know, but the teams that advance to the playoffs and make a deep run do so because they have players...one dynamic players or usually a few players....that play at a level that exceeds their level of compensation.  A QB, A LT, WR, EDGE. Secondary player, etc.

 

Great performance at bargain prices.   

 

If a team is simply paying market value for each player....and gets that market value level of performance...they are going to fall short of the team that is getting exceptional value....assuming both teams are near the salary cap.  The latter team will simply have more talent disbursed throughout the playing field for the same price.

 

Paying Smith RT market value prices, Nelson the best G of all time prices, Kelly Market value C prices, pretty much limits how the other two positions can be handled.  Need to HOPE that Pryor can play LT as good as a starter while paying him backup level money.  

 

For the oline, it looks like Pinter is the guy who can grade out his performance higher than his pay grade, so he needs to be in the starting lineup, IMO.  Personally, like many, Glow and Reed are too valuable of players to let go (Ballard will probably make the wrong 50/50 coin flip about who to keep). 

 

Ballard cannot have his rookies take 3 to 4 years to develop.  Rooks need to be high contributors by at least the last year of their rookie deals in order to have a playoff caliber roster, IMO.

 

Since he got here, only Nelson, Leonard, Smith, Pitt, and JT have been able to fit that pattern.  And now we're paying Smith and Leonard market value and will be paying Nelson market value.  That leaves Pitt and JT.  Who is the next rookie-deal guy that's going to stand out as the guy playing above his pay grade?  And do any of them play positions that are important or hard to find?

 

(We're also paying Defo and Grover market value, not really getting value there.  And will be paying Lewis market value for his situation), 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fisher was getting better as the season went on until he got injured vs AZ.   I don’t think he was healthy enough to be on the field vs Jax.  Having, a full offseason to train rather than just rehab should make a difference. 
 

However, Fisher is really in no position to ask for a big contract from the Colts.  His play wasn’t good enough. Ballard also made it pretty clear he was thought of as a short term.  
 

I’m moving on from Fisher if possible. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Catloaf said:

If Fisher is cheap, sign him again if you can't find anyone better, let Pryor/Smith/Fisher duke it out for LT and put the second best at RT and keep the third for depth.  Just depends how much Fisher wants.  He doesn't have a lot of negotiating room after his poor performance this year.

I agree with you.  Fisher really doesn’t have any negotiating leverage.  He shouldn’t be expensive.   Pryor should be a priority signing.  I can see him getting the spot with a draft pick behind him.  I could see Ballard moving our 2nd rd pick up to get one.  Don’t think they would move Smith over but you never know.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, csmopar said:

If you go back a couple years, you’ll find that Eric Fisher was listed on most list as a draft bust. He had maybe 2 decent years with KC, the last one being his best before getting hurt


You have to go back to his first two years.   2013 and 14.   That’s it.

 

Otherwise, he’s been a solid average NFL LT every year since.  7 straight years.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:


You have to go back to his first two years.   2013 and 14.   That’s it.

 

Otherwise, he’s been a solid average NFL LT every year since.  7 straight years.   

Average doesn’t cut it when he was well over drafted. Granted, where he was drafted isn’t his fault, but the rest is and that part is underwhelming 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Thread of the Week

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • How do you come away with Moore and McBride? They went back to back, #54 and #55. We drafted Woods at #73.
    • He's still no Mike Evans, not so far.
    • Let’s not forget Pittman missed 3 games his rookie year right when the game was slowing down.  He probably would of had 800 yards if that hadn’t happened.  Those YAC yards will be back for him with Ryan like he had with rivers and Ryan will throw the jump ball much more then rivers. Now Pittman has a QB that he can do both.
    • I think you're being unfair to Campbell, but I absolutely agree with you on Pittman, especially in comparison with Mike Evans. Evans was immediately outstanding, and with bad QBing, and he entered the league two years younger than Pittman. Evans rookie year was better than Pittman's second season. I'd love to see Pittman give us 96 catches, 1300 yards, and 12 TDs like Evans did in Year 3, but I'm not counting on it.   They kind of look alike. Other than that, Evans play early in his career far surpassed what Pittman has done so far.
    • Some thoughts I’d like to share for your consideration…    As you may or may not be aware, of the receivers likely to be available, Watson was my first choice and Moore was a close second.      Others who I wanted were Tolbert who is doing well in Dallas, Shakir, who is doing well in Buffalo, and Pierce, who is doing well with us.    (Feels like I’m forgetting someone?)   My point is this…. I expect guys like Moore to have a better career than Pierce.  He’s got a future Hall of Fame quarterback, and a system that values what he does.   Our system values Pierce.  Much taller,  just as fast, much better vertical, better blocker, better Red Zone.   But I don’t think he’ll put up better stats.   Does that mean we picked the wrong guy?   I don’t think so.    Our system favors a high end SUV or Pickup.   KC’s system prefers a Porsche or Ferrari.   Not everyone wants the luxury Mercedes or BMW.   And I’m not looking forward to playing against KC and Moore for years to come watching him carve up our defense which I think he will.  We have a different way of doing things.   Just food for thought. 
  • Members

×
×
  • Create New...