What a difference in QB play yesterday.

[MikeCurtis]

11 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

And!!! Can you imagine what we could have done if we actually had a QB on their level? And again - finding the QB, does not absolve you from the responsibility of putting a good team around him. Finding the QB, won't magically solve your defensive problems. You still need to build the team. But it all starts from the QB. The QB is the most important position in football... BY A HUGE MARGIN. This is incontrovertible. You will not find anyone serious who thinks otherwise. And all those teams still have problems... but their QB covers for a lot of it. They have strengths just like we have strengths... just theirs are at positions that actually matter most for winning games, QB included.... that's why we are home watching and they are on the field playing in those amazing games. 

 

We competed against some of those contenders because of insane run of form by Taylor and parts of our defense(and IMO partly some luck)... but again... over the long haul we won't be able to compete with a QB playing at the level Wentz played this year. And I was saying this when we were winning, because it was obvious. Wentz didn't suddenly start playing badly. He was having those types of games every 2nd or 3d game all season long... just it happens that he collected 2 of them in the final 2 most important games in the end and we were finished. 

First off...... I AGREE with you that we need to have better QB play

 

I will point out that there were numerous talking heads and people on THIS board who were spouting how we WON the Eagles trade, and we had our QB of the future in late DECEMBER after the Cardinals game......

 

Two bad games and now he is the worst QB ever...... which he isnt

 

But its mental gymnastics to work out another QB for the Colts for THIS coming year

 

Who is that QB that is readily available that wont cost much and be significant improvement over Wentz?

 

I dont know who that is

 

We have a large one year, cap hit for Wentz that wont go away

This years draft is devoid of blue chip QBs

The Seahawks arent just giving us Wilson... are you ready to hand over 2 future 1st round picks for him + talented players?

The Packers arent just giving us Rodgers..... are you ready to hand over 2 future 1st round picks for him + talented players?

The Vikings arent just giving up Cousins....... are you ready to take on a 40M plus cap hit to bring him?

 

Whether you love or hate Wentz, I dont see the other team willing to trade for him, do you?

 

I dont see another REALISTIC outcome, other than giving Carson another chance WHILE you build the team around him

 

If he fails, you have a stronger team that could support CJ Stroud, Bryce Young, or maybe even Haener come in and play right away in 2023

 

I think we are truly stuck with Carson this year...... I hope he steps up a bit

 

The only thing I think that they MAY do is to bring in Trubisky, Mariota, or even Winston to compete

 

They wont cost much

 

 

Again....  I would respectfully disagree with you as I get the concern, but dont really see other options,   

  

 

 

 

 

[stitches]

29 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

First off...... I AGREE with you that we need to have better QB play

 

I will point out that there were numerous talking heads and people on THIS board who were spouting how we WON the Eagles trade, and we had our QB of the future in late DECEMBER after the Cardinals game......

Can't answer for them... I was saying he's not playing well throughout the whole season. Even in the Cardinals game... he played a pretty bad game for most of the game and finished it strong in the last drive. 

 

29 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Two bad games and now he is the worst QB ever...... which he isnt

He's not the worst QB ever... or even in today's league. But he is somewhere in the bottom 10-12 of starting QBs IMO. 

 

29 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

But its mental gymnastics to work out another QB for the Colts for THIS coming year

 

Who is that QB that is readily available that wont cost much and be significant improvement over Wentz?

 

I dont know who that is

I don't know who it is either. But I would advise people to refocus their attention. Next year is not the aim. We won't be competing for SB with or without Wentz next year(well unless we go and do something insane to get Wilson or Rodgers or Watson... then maybe?)

29 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

We have a large one year, cap hit for Wentz that wont go away

The cap hit is 15M. You can save around 13M.  

29 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

This years draft is devoid of blue chip QBs

Eh... you never know where you can find talent in the draft. I agree there aren't blue chip prospects. Doesn't mean none of the non-blue chip prospects can't become a great QB. 

29 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

The Seahawks arent just giving us Wilson... are you ready to hand over 2 future 1st round picks for him + talented players?

The Packers arent just giving us Rodgers..... are you ready to hand over 2 future 1st round picks for him + talented players?

The Vikings arent just giving up Cousins....... are you ready to take on a 40M plus cap hit to bring him?

I don't think I want any of them. Especially not for the price. 

29 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Whether you love or hate Wentz, I dont see the other team willing to trade for him, do you?

Nope. 

29 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I dont see another REALISTIC outcome, other than giving Carson another chance WHILE you build the team around him

The realistic option is to trade up in the draft for a QB you fall in love with. Maybe you stick with Wentz as a bridge in the meantime. No idea how he would take it. I don't care to be honest. If you don't fall in love with a QB, then yes... probably the most realistic option is keeping Wentz. I don't know how Ballard and Reich survive this if we have another failed season like this one if they decide consciously to enter the 2022 season with Wentz as their QB and the team doesn't make significant strides. So ... maybe we get a completely clean slate next year. 

 

29 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

If he fails, you have a stronger team that could support CJ Stroud, Bryce Young, or maybe even Haener come in and play right away in 2023

Who are your favorites for GM and HC in 2023? 

 

29 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I think we are truly stuck with Carson this year...... I hope he steps up a bit

 

The only thing I think that they MAY do is to bring in Trubisky, Mariota, or even Winston to compete

 

They wont cost much

That's one option, yah. I think Winston may win that job at some point. Not sure about Mariota. Trubisky won't. 

29 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

 

Again....  I would respectfully disagree with you as I get the concern, but dont really see other options,   

 

The options are not great this year. But that's why we should have gone for QB last year's draft when we had a great QB class. But Ballard and Reich chose another path. I don't necessarily want us to force a QB in the draft this year. But I definitely want them to be scouring the earth for all the information they could get on all those QB prospects and if they fall in love with any of them... go for it. 

[yankeeclipper]

no question that Allen and Mahome are elite QB's. I have rarely seen a game where both QB's played as well as both of these guys. However, before we rush to judgment on comparing Wentz against both of these QB's let's dig deeper into other key factors that make the Bills and Chiefs  a higher performing offense.   Chiefs have Kelce. He is an elite TE. Bills have Knox who is a very good up and coming TE (he was less a factor in yesterday's Bills game but he has been a major contributor to the Bills offense). The other distinction is that the Chiefs has Hill - who is a receiver and home run threat that we just do not have and have not had since the early years of TY Hilton.  Bills have home run threats in Diggs and yesterday, Davis was a huge weapon.  Colts offensive receiving threat in 2021 was Pittman. The rest of the receiving corps was inconsistent or injured. 

 

If you look at teh SF - GB game,  one of the critical offensive weapons for the 49er's was their TE Kittle. 

 

Wentz  has skills sets that show he can be a multi-dimensional threat with passing, running, and play options. What he needs is more receiving targets  and yes we need to design packages where he gets positive yards.

 

Mahomes is a remarkable QB. He has a nice passing touch and he is able to elude pass rushers and turn losses into big games either with his legs or his ability to avoid sacks. He has an uncanny ability to turn negative yards into solid gains.  He is tough to defense. Allen is a great running QB and he has a rocket for an arm. He willl be a major face on that franchise for years to come.

 

Let's put in a game plan that gives Wentz multiple options for  generating points.

 

 

 

 

 

[MikeCurtis]

46 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

 

Who are your favorites for GM and HC in 2023? 

 

 

I dont think that will happen

 

I think that if Wentz gets a little better 

AND...... we get better LT play... another season of healing as well as Pryor getting a shot, may be the answer

(Or an old LT that has a year or 2 left)

AND.... we get a true separation type WR - Draft (We had NONE)

AND...... we get a dangerous TE - Draft / Maybe Ertz (We had NONE)

AND .... we get a FA DE.... that can create havoc - There will be a FA DE that will be available, but very expensive (We had NONE)

AND.... we get a viable FS..... They are available in FA, and  not super expensive (We had NONE)

 

This team, as it is with just 3 or 4 of THESE IMPROVEMENTS..... wins 11 games..... enough to make the playoffs

 

Enough to keep our current GM and HC

 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, stitches said:

Absolutely. My point is - the answer here is NOT giving up on it and settling for Wentz. It's searching even harder. What if KC kept settling for Alex Smith and didn't draft Mahomes? What if the Bills kept settling for Tyrod Taylor? What if Cinci kept settling for Dalton? 

 

You will never get one, unless you first TRY to get one. 

We aren’t trying?   

[stitches]

6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

We aren’t trying?   

No idea. We will see... If you decide Wentz is the guy IMO you are not trying hard enough. What I don't like is the defeatist attitude - there are only 8-10 great QBs at any point so you are just part of the other 25 teams or thereabout... oh well, what can you do... 

 

Well, that's my answer - you keep searching and drafting QBs until you get one of those special ones. 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, Fluke_33 said:

That always boggles my mind but it is apparently true.  Out of the entire population of the united states even, how can we only find so few elite that can throw a football that well. 

My answer isn’t always that popular, but it’s this….

 

That it’s not just the throwing that makes someone elite.    It’s the rapid fire under pressure processing of information that makes the QB elite.   
 

Jeff George: million dollar arm, ten cent head.

Jay Cutler:  million dollar arm, ten cent head.  
 

Joe Montana, certainly not the greatest arm, but million dollar head.  
Peyton Manning AND Tom Brady, good arm, but brilliant head.   
 

It’s the space between the ears that makes the QB elite.    That’s why they’re so rare.   

[Colts1324]

9 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

It’s easy for all of us to sit here and say we need a Mahomes or Allen. It’s not easy to find. That’s the hard part. That’s why I am a advocate of keeping Wentz until your able to find that guy in the draft. In the mean time get weapons for the offense and get a better pass rush. Then a young QB has a good situation to walk into. I am not a fan of giving up more assets for another teams reject. Let’s keep are assets so we have them when it does come along.

The issue is Young & Fields are the only QB’s that flash stardom right now in the 2023 class. Young looks very good, but he isn’t a proven star yet

[NewColtsFan]

5 minutes ago, stitches said:

No idea. We will see... If you decide Wentz is the guy IMO you are not trying hard enough. What I don't like is the defeatist attitude - there are only 8-10 great QBs at any point so you are just part of the other 25 teams or thereabout... oh well, what can you do... 

 

Well, that's my answer - you keep searching and drafting QBs until you get one of those special ones. 

Defeatist attitude?    Wow.   Holy Cow. 
 

I didn’t say anything about..,  oh well, what can you do?

 

I’ve always said you find the best quarterback you can get and surround him with the best team you can.   Hardly defeatist….  

[NewColtsFan]

Just now, Colts1324 said:

The issue is Young & Fields are the only QB’s that flash stardom right now in the 2023 class. Young looks very good, but he isn’t a proven star yet

Fields?   Class of 23?    Who is that?   Justin, from Chicago?    Class of 23?   Sorry, help me out please… 

[stitches]

25 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I dont think that will happen

 

I think that if Wentz gets a little better 

AND...... we get better LT play... another season of healing as well as Pryor getting a shot, may be the answer

(Or an old LT that has a year or 2 left)

AND.... we get a true separation type WR - Draft (We had NONE)

AND...... we get a dangerous TE - Draft / Maybe Ertz (We had NONE)

AND .... we get a FA DE.... that can create havoc - There will be a FA DE that will be available, but very expensive (We had NONE)

AND.... we get a viable FS..... They are available in FA, and  not super expensive (We had NONE)

 

This team, as it is with just 3 or 4 of THESE IMPROVEMENTS..... wins 11 games..... enough to make the playoffs

 

Enough to keep our current GM and HC

 

That, along with the QB is the biggest problem of this roster. We need A LOT of things to go right at the same time. That was the problem of the roster before the year started. I can find you posts from August/September saying the exact same thing - we need LT to be healthy and return in form AND the young DEs to show up... AND the young WRs to develop.. .AND  the CBs to play better... AND MAC to take step forward AND ... you get it, right? There are just too many weaknesses/questionmarks with the team and most of them are at the most important positions in football. You just cannot realistically expect all or even most of those to resolve in a positive outcome. That's why I wasn't very optimistic before the last season and why I'm not really optimistic for next season. 

[Fluke_33]

20 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

My answer isn’t always that popular, but it’s this….

 

That it’s not just the throwing that makes someone elite.    It’s the rapid fire under pressure processing of information that makes the QB elite.   
 

Jeff George: million dollar arm, ten cent head.

Jay Cutler:  million dollar arm, ten cent head.  
 

Joe Montana, certainly not the greatest arm, but million dollar head.  
Peyton Manning AND Tom Brady, good arm, but brilliant head.   
 

It’s the space between the ears that makes the QB elite.    That’s why they’re so rare.   

You’re right.  Plenty can throw it.  I should have said elite qb.  It’s what I really meant.  Still boggling 

[Colt.45]

53 minutes ago, yankeeclipper said:

no question that Allen and Mahome are elite QB's. I have rarely seen a game where both QB's played as well as both of these guys. However, before we rush to judgment on comparing Wentz against both of these QB's let's dig deeper into other key factors that make the Bills and Chiefs  a higher performing offense.   Chiefs have Kelce. He is an elite TE. Bills have Knox who is a very good up and coming TE (he was less a factor in yesterday's Bills game but he has been a major contributor to the Bills offense). The other distinction is that the Chiefs has Hill - who is a receiver and home run threat that we just do not have and have not had since the early years of TY Hilton.  Bills have home run threats in Diggs and yesterday, Davis was a huge weapon.  Colts offensive receiving threat in 2021 was Pittman. The rest of the receiving corps was inconsistent or injured. 

 

If you look at teh SF - GB game,  one of the critical offensive weapons for the 49er's was their TE Kittle. 

 

Wentz  has skills sets that show he can be a multi-dimensional threat with passing, running, and play options. What he needs is more receiving targets  and yes we need to design packages where he gets positive yards.

 

Mahomes is a remarkable QB. He has a nice passing touch and he is able to elude pass rushers and turn losses into big games either with his legs or his ability to avoid sacks. He has an uncanny ability to turn negative yards into solid gains.  He is tough to defense. Allen is a great running QB and he has a rocket for an arm. He willl be a major face on that franchise for years to come.

 

Let's put in a game plan that gives Wentz multiple options for  generating points.

 

 

 

 

 

Good post. At the end, i disagree slightly with the suggestion...Wentz gets plenty options to put up points currently, he just can't make it happen. Maybe better talent could be a factor in helping bail him out but if he cant do it with the options available currently, he needs to be upgraded. If CB and his crew ever stopped looking for an upgrade, they've been derelict and while i disagreed with Ballard's philosophy (run 1st), i dont think he's ever been asleep at the wheel.

[Maniac53]

2 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

First off...... I AGREE with you that we need to have better QB play

 

I will point out that there were numerous talking heads and people on THIS board who were spouting how we WON the Eagles trade, and we had our QB of the future in late DECEMBER after the Cardinals game......

 

Two bad games and now he is the worst QB ever...... which he isnt

 

But its mental gymnastics to work out another QB for the Colts for THIS coming year

 

Who is that QB that is readily available that wont cost much and be significant improvement over Wentz?

 

I dont know who that is

 

We have a large one year, cap hit for Wentz that wont go away

This years draft is devoid of blue chip QBs

The Seahawks arent just giving us Wilson... are you ready to hand over 2 future 1st round picks for him + talented players?

The Packers arent just giving us Rodgers..... are you ready to hand over 2 future 1st round picks for him + talented players?

The Vikings arent just giving up Cousins....... are you ready to take on a 40M plus cap hit to bring him?

 

Whether you love or hate Wentz, I dont see the other team willing to trade for him, do you?

 

I dont see another REALISTIC outcome, other than giving Carson another chance WHILE you build the team around him

 

If he fails, you have a stronger team that could support CJ Stroud, Bryce Young, or maybe even Haener come in and play right away in 2023

 

I think we are truly stuck with Carson this year...... I hope he steps up a bit

 

The only thing I think that they MAY do is to bring in Trubisky, Mariota, or even Winston to compete

 

They wont cost much

 

 

Again....  I would respectfully disagree with you as I get the concern, but dont really see other options,   

  

 

 

 

 

I agree, about needing another vet to compete. I was in favor for Trubisky over Wentz before getting Wentz. It would've been cheaper and we probably would've had same results. Close to making the playoffs.

 

We also need to bring in vet for other positions, such as pass rusher. The young players need a leader in locker room and someone to out play to get on the field.

 

We as Colt fans need to have trust in Ballard and Reich to make better decisions and I believe they will. Colts are not that far away as many think in this forum.

 

As far as big money free agents, Ballard is just really selective. He'll spend money like he did for Buckner, but it has to be exactly the right guy. I expect them to be a little more aggressive this year, but that doesn't mean they'll land any big names.

[CoachLite]

If Carson Wentz had some of Joe Burrow's cool, calm demeanor, he'd be up there with the best. That's doable.

[EastStreet]

To the OP...

What a difference in QB play...

But what a difference in OL play, and WR talent too.... 

[philba101]

On 1/17/2022 at 11:56 AM, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

We have no weapons for Wilson. Why would he want to come here with that trash WR group.

Trash WR Group? You mean the WR corps that Ballard and Reich love and are so impressed with their potential? I sometimes wonder if management and coaches and even the owner get clouded by their love for the human beings . From everything I can tell, we have a great group of men who have shown themselves to be excellent teammates; but I think most fans and unbiased observers believe the Colts need better players at those skill positions.

[philba101]

14 hours ago, stitches said:

That, along with the QB is the biggest problem of this roster. We need A LOT of things to go right at the same time. That was the problem of the roster before the year started. I can find you posts from August/September saying the exact same thing - we need LT to be healthy and return in form AND the young DEs to show up... AND the young WRs to develop.. .AND  the CBs to play better... AND MAC to take step forward AND ... you get it, right? There are just too many weaknesses/questionmarks with the team and most of them are at the most important positions in football. You just cannot realistically expect all or even most of those to resolve in a positive outcome. That's why I wasn't very optimistic before the last season and why I'm not really optimistic for next season. 

Good analysis! I think the Colts have done that for quite awhile now and even the fans have endured this for some time. How many times on this forum have you seen posts (me included) saying: if the Colts could just get this, this, and this to happen,  and get a break in this area, then we got a shot to go a long way. But you nailed it on the head when you surmised that the list cannot be too long. If the list of substantial question marks for a team is too long, the harsh reality that is the grind of the NFL will humble and sometimes destroy franchises way more often than it will elevate them. 

[Colt.45]

22 hours ago, CoachLite said:

If Carson Wentz had some of Joe Burrow's cool, calm demeanor, he'd be up there with the best. That's doable.

Dude needs to discover weed.

[CoachLite]

38 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

Dude needs to discover weed.

Nah. Dude needs to discover Relaxation Response Techniques to overcome his learned panic responses, and he needs to learn to see a 'sight picture' of his play evolution rather than 'looking at' targets. These are techniques that are relatively easy to learn. I was taught by folks in Indianapolis.

[Colt.45]

1 minute ago, CoachLite said:

Nah. Dude needs to discover Relaxation Response Techniques to overcome his learned panic responses, and he needs to learn to see a 'sight picture' of his play evolution rather than 'looking at' targets. These are techniques that are relatively easy to learn. I was taught by folks in Indianapolis.

Or that, that'd work too.

[ChuggaBeer]

25 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

Or that, that'd work too.

I kinda liked your idea