Colts OL: 30th in pass blocking, 12th overall

[smittywerb]

You know what’s funny, 3 qbs in the top 5 most sacks are/were in the playoffs.

 

Burrow, Carr, Tannehill

 

Wentz 14th in sacks.  But those 3 qbs still were able to produce more than Wentz.

[Nickster]

On 1/15/2022 at 12:44 AM, EastStreet said:

 

I don't recall our OL every grading that low in pass pro....

 

Even in for instance 2015, our pass pro was 12th. 2014, which was arguably Luck's best year, we were at least 21st in pass pro, and our low grade that year was skewed by injury and Cherilus playing bad. 2013 was probably the worst I can remember, but it wasn't 30th.... lol... 

 

30th I'm sure is a new low for us.

It gets a little worse than 30 but not much.

[Nickster]

21 hours ago, Four2itus said:

Does holding on to the ball too long affect this grade?

No.  That’s not how oline grades are made.

[Nickster]

20 hours ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Umm part of making a good oline is the QB getting it out quick. Oline stats can go back to the QB most of the time.

Grading attempts to evaluate players on their own play, not the play of other players.  Each player is graded in isolation.

[jbaron04]

11 hours ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Wentz would have to be cut by March 19th. So if he isn’t cut by then he will be back.

Why you say that ? As far as I know if we cut wentz pre or post 6/1 he will count 15m in dead cap unless traded 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

20 minutes ago, jbaron04 said:

Why you say that ? As far as I know if we cut wentz pre or post 6/1 he will count 15m in dead cap unless traded 

He has a bonus due at that time. Cutting him after that date would raise the dead cap by 7 million I believe if we cut him.

[indyagent17]

Once again this is pathetic, there is so much money put into our offensive line and they are 30th in pass blocking?? . I think Ballard needs to go find hard nosed offensive and defensive line coaches to get in these faces of these underachieving players. This team has been called soft for as long as I can remember. It’s time we get some toughness in this team and quit trying to baby our players and become friends with them them

[TimetobringDfence!]

On 1/15/2022 at 9:14 PM, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

We would of been better off going after Foles or Mariota and trying to draft Fields or Jones.

I hope we find a way to go for RW3, trade Wentz, Hines, Mack, and or Okereke/I. Rogers for him. All five if that's what it takes. 

[ClaytonColt]

This is terrible. When you spend so much of your capital on a certain are they almost have to be the best in the league, let alone 30th for anything!! It's the same for the Interior D line. 

 

We can all complain about the obvious weaknesses on this team in terms of talent but we also need our big strengths to perform as such.

 

Do we know who the top 5 lines are? 

[Art_Vandelay]

3 hours ago, ClaytonColt said:

Do we know who the top 5 lines are? 

You mean pass pro? Don't about that, but the general ratings are:

 

1. Cowboys

2. Buccaneers

3. 49ers

4. Eagles

5. Chiefs

[Mitch Connors]

On 1/16/2022 at 12:57 AM, smittywerb said:

You know what’s funny, 3 qbs in the top 5 most sacks are/were in the playoffs.

 

Burrow, Carr, Tannehill

 

Wentz 14th in sacks.  But those 3 qbs still were able to produce more than Wentz.

 

Pittman would literally be the only pass catcher on our entire offense that would start on any of those teams and he wouldn't start in Cincy. 

 

We have D+ pass catchers comparatively and that's being generous. We're the only team in the league that didnt have a 2nd pass catcher with over 400 yards - the only one. And before anyone says its Wentz's fault, we didn't even have an 800 yard pass catcher last year and had a combined 4 guys with +400 yards. The more I think about it as a unit this team is an F on pass catchers. 

 

[chad72]

32 minutes ago, Mitch Connors said:

 

Pittman would literally be the only pass catcher on our entire offense that would start on any of those teams and he wouldn't start in Cincy. 

 

We have D+ pass catchers comparatively and that's being generous. We're the only team in the league that didnt have a 2nd pass catcher with over 400 yards - the only one. And before anyone says its Wentz's fault, we didn't even have an 800 yard pass catcher last year and had a combined 4 guys with +400 yards. The more I think about it as a unit this team is an F on pass catchers. 

 

 

He would start in Cincy over Tyler Boyd, no doubt in my mind. He is at worst behind Chase and Higgins, but an upgrade over Boyd. In Cincy, he would be a #3 but in places like Green Bay, Dallas, Cardinals etc., he would be a good #2 behind Adams, Lamb, Hopkins etc., IMO (yes I do think he is better than Cooper and A J Green at this point in time, probably not in their prime). His value was showcased well by Wentz earlier in the year but as teams realized TY was an old tiger and we had no one other than Pittman, it made it easier to defend us plus Wentz's QB play became more hit and miss as December came along and went from above average to below average.

[Mitch Connors]

23 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

He would start in Cincy over Tyler Boyd, no doubt in my mind. He is at worst behind Chase and Higgins, but an upgrade over Boyd. In Cincy, he would be a #3 but in places like Green Bay, Dallas, Cardinals etc., he would be a good #2 behind Adams, Lamb, Hopkins etc., IMO (yes I do think he is better than Cooper and A J Green at this point in time, probably not in their prime). His value was showcased well by Wentz earlier in the year but as teams realized TY was an old tiger and we had no one other than Pittman, it made it easier to defend us plus Wentz's QB play became more hit and miss as December came along and went from above average to below average.

I agree Pittman is a #1 WR on several teams and at worst a #2 on most. After that I dont know that we have WR's that would start on any team in the league.

 

As far as Cincy in concerned Boyd put up 800 yards and 5 TD's and that's with Chase and Higgins getting theirs. He is certainly the  Stokely to their Harrison and Wayne but hes lightyears ahead of anything we have outside of Pittman.

 

IMO, this teams needs serious help at the WR spot this offseason.

[chad72]

Just now, Mitch Connors said:

I agree Pittman is a #1 WR on several teams and at worst a #2 on most. After that I dont know that we have WR's that would start on any team in the league.

 

As far as Cincy in concerned Boyd put up 800 yards and 5 TD's and that's with Chase and Higgins getting theirs. He is certainly the  Stokely to their Harrison and Wayne but hes lightyears ahead of anything we have outside of Pittman.

 

IMO, this teams needs serious help at the WR spot this offseason.

 

That is why Ballard and Reich need to be careful about laying it all on Wentz as a scapegoat when a lot of his success rides on the help they provide him, in terms of weapons, left tackle etc. We have now established that he is at best a good QB, will never be elite, and has to be managed by playing to his strengths and giving as much help as possible to get the most out of him. Their moves have to be centered around that assessment, not like they are surrounding an elite QB.

[JMichael557]

Wentz is terrible and always will be terrible. You can bring back Marvin and Reggie in their prime and Wentz could not throw them the ball. He made Philly's line look bad and he made our line look bad. If we do not move on immediately then we are in for several rough years. 

[jbaron04]

On 1/16/2022 at 9:34 AM, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

He has a bonus due at that time. Cutting him after that date would raise the dead cap by 7 million I believe if we cut him.

Oh ok so the clock is ticking 

[Art_Vandelay]

1 hour ago, JMichael557 said:

Wentz is terrible and always will be terrible. You can bring back Marvin and Reggie in their prime and Wentz could not throw them the ball. He made Philly's line look bad and he made our line look bad. If we do not move on immediately then we are in for several rough years. 

 

When did he make Philly's line look bad? Last year, absolutely. But their line was also totally banged up last season, center Kelce was basically the only starter left on the O-line (although it was still better graded by PFF than the Colts' line this season). But in every other season since he played for the Eagles, their O-line was regularly one of the best-rated lines in the NFL. It's too simple to pin the bad grades of the Colts O-line on Wentz alone.

[EastStreet]

3 hours ago, JMichael557 said:

Wentz is terrible and always will be terrible. You can bring back Marvin and Reggie in their prime and Wentz could not throw them the ball. He made Philly's line look bad and he made our line look bad. If we do not move on immediately then we are in for several rough years. 

 

So, you're saying Wentz bought the skates that Fisher was wearing all year...

lol

[Rhodelesstraveled]

6 hours ago, Art_Vandelay said:

You mean pass pro? Don't about that, but the general ratings are:

 

1. Cowboys

2. Buccaneers

3. 49ers

4. Eagles

5. Chiefs

Boys got worked by SF.  I think they are more overrated than our OL.  Chiefs OL is also way overrated.  Brown is not a NFL LT and Wylie is a JAG.  Tre Smith is very iffy.  Mahomes helps them.  Eagles also overrated.  TB DL destroyed them this weekend.  

 

Bucs OL is by far the best one on the list.  I really believe Colts OL needs to be torn down and rebuilt.  TN has the best DL in the NFL.  To beat them you got to block them.  To take back the South we have to block those guys.  They only rush four and no one runs on them.  That is why they are a tough out.  I think SF and TN have a lot of the same attributes.  They both play wide 9 alignments and their DL are super fast and aggressive.  

 

SF had better ILB play but now with Cunningham being gifted to TN by Culley their biggest weakness ( Evans and Brown) is now a strength.  

[chad72]

12 minutes ago, Rhodelesstraveled said:

Boys got worked by SF.  I think they are more overrated than our OL.  Chiefs OL is also way overrated.  Brown is not a NFL LT and Wylie is a JAG.  Tre Smith is very iffy.  Mahomes helps them.  Eagles also overrated.  TB DL destroyed them this weekend.  

 

Bucs OL is by far the best one on the list.  I really believe Colts OL needs to be torn down and rebuilt.  TN has the best DL in the NFL.  To beat them you got to block them.  To take back the South we have to block those guys.  They only rush four and no one runs on them.  That is why they are a tough out.  I think SF and TN have a lot of the same attributes.  They both play wide 9 alignments and their DL are super fast and aggressive.  

 

SF had better ILB play but now with Cunningham being gifted to TN by Culley their biggest weakness ( Evans and Brown) is now a strength.  

 

Bills revamped their OL and it has been better ever since and their confidence is sky high. I do think the Bills expose the Chiefs OL and beat the Chiefs though Mahomes is always the X factor. I do think Titans host the AFCCG vs Bills, Bengals have too many DL injuries to be able to handle the Titans.

 

NFC, Jimmy G cannot be in a shootout, and if Bosa does not play, he will be, IMO. Advantage still goes to the Packers mainly because Rodgers knows where to go with the ball unlike Dak. Bucs likely handle anyone that comes out of the Rams/Cardinals matchup, so repeat of last year's NFCCG, IMO.

[Dingus McGirt]

On 1/16/2022 at 3:33 PM, indyagent17 said:

Once again this is pathetic, there is so much money put into our offensive line and they are 30th in pass blocking?? . I think Ballard needs to go find hard nosed offensive and defensive line coaches to get in these faces of these underachieving players. This team has been called soft for as long as I can remember. It’s time we get some toughness in this team and quit trying to baby our players and become friends with them them

We had an allegedly hard-nosed OL coach.  Sadly, he didn’t fit in Reich’s world.

[EastStreet]

9 minutes ago, Rhodelesstraveled said:

Boys got worked by SF.  I think they are more overrated than our OL.  Chiefs OL is also way overrated.  Brown is not a NFL LT and Wylie is a JAG.  Tre Smith is very iffy.  Mahomes helps them.  Eagles also overrated.  TB DL destroyed them this weekend.  

 

Bucs OL is by far the best one on the list.  I really believe Colts OL needs to be torn down and rebuilt.  TN has the best DL in the NFL.  To beat them you got to block them.  To take back the South we have to block those guys.  They only rush four and no one runs on them.  That is why they are a tough out.  I think SF and TN have a lot of the same attributes.  They both play wide 9 alignments and their DL are super fast and aggressive.  

 

SF had better ILB play but now with Cunningham being gifted to TN by Culley their biggest weakness ( Evans and Brown) is now a strength.  

I agree with a lot of this. But Brown has come on very nicely as the year progressed. Let's not forget he's still a young dude, still on a rook deal, and is a 3x Pro Bowler in only 4 years... I agree not elite, but he's a starting LT easily, and I think he's been learning to live in that big body of his the last 3 years. I'd take him over Fisher any day. Overall KC's OL is very very young. And very good for average age. Mahomes helps them with mobility, but hurts them with long pocket time. 

 

I agree TB is easily the best, but Dallas's OL is still good, especially LT and RG. 

 

I agree TN's DL is great. I credit the scheme that you mentioned. Wish we'd do that... 

 

But I don't think we need to rebuild the Indy OL. Aside from injury, we were mostly fine with the exception of LT. Smith and Glow had strong seasons. Q despite being injured a big part of the year, only gave up one sack, and that was Week 18. Fix LT is obvious, and maybe trade Kelly who has slipped the last two years. 

 

 

[EastStreet]

 

 

[smittywerb]

6 hours ago, Mitch Connors said:

 

Pittman would literally be the only pass catcher on our entire offense that would start on any of those teams and he wouldn't start in Cincy. 

 

We have D+ pass catchers comparatively and that's being generous. We're the only team in the league that didnt have a 2nd pass catcher with over 400 yards - the only one. And before anyone says its Wentz's fault, we didn't even have an 800 yard pass catcher last year and had a combined 4 guys with +400 yards. The more I think about it as a unit this team is an F on pass catchers. 

 

agreed, also think those hit on those short routes also while we don’t.  

[EastStreet]

1 hour ago, Dingus McGirt said:

We had an allegedly hard-nosed OL coach.  Sadly, he didn’t fit in Reich’s world.

He was too mean. W56 is a safe space and is no place for hurt feelings..... 

 

At least ND realized the error of their ways, and brought back mean old Harry Hiestand lol....

 

ND's OL gonna be nasty next year. They're ridding the Gug of Play Doh, coloring books, and participation trophies. 

 

7 hours ago, Mitch Connors said:

 

Pittman would literally be the only pass catcher on our entire offense that would start on any of those teams and he wouldn't start in Cincy. 

 

We have D+ pass catchers comparatively and that's being generous. We're the only team in the league that didnt have a 2nd pass catcher with over 400 yards - the only one. And before anyone says its Wentz's fault, we didn't even have an 800 yard pass catcher last year and had a combined 4 guys with +400 yards. The more I think about it as a unit this team is an F on pass catchers. 

 

 

Pittman and Higgins (both Xs) had very similar stats (right over 1k), and Higgins had the advantage of 2 other great WR options to relieve pressure, a better OC calling plays and scheme, etc....

 

So you'd probably never have Pittman and Higgins (again, both Xs) on the same team. If it did happen, one would move to slot likely and replace Boyd. 

 

But yes, I agree overall our WR unit is below average. And so is our scheme for WRs. The fact we use a 5-10 guy like TY as a possession WR is beyond Twilight Zone... 

[Dobbinblitz]

1 hour ago, Dingus McGirt said:

We had an allegedly hard-nosed OL coach.  Sadly, he didn’t fit in Reich’s world.

Agree. The best the OL has ever looked was under Deguglielmo in the one year he was here. Whatever the issues, on the field that OL was solid. I believe a few of the OL recognized his contributions . Present day - Kelly is making fringe LT money at center - we have mor pressing needs. The question is will Isray and Ballard  back up their words and make the necessary moves needed to free up space and improve this roster at critical positions.

[Rhodelesstraveled]

2 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

Bills revamped their OL and it has been better ever since and their confidence is sky high. I do think the Bills expose the Chiefs OL and beat the Chiefs though Mahomes is always the X factor. I do think Titans host the AFCCG vs Bills, Bengals have too many DL injuries to be able to handle the Titans.

 

NFC, Jimmy G cannot be in a shootout, and if Bosa does not play, he will be, IMO. Advantage still goes to the Packers mainly because Rodgers knows where to go with the ball unlike Dak. Bucs likely handle anyone that comes out of the Rams/Cardinals matchup, so repeat of last year's NFCCG, IMO.

I think the Bills OL is very avg.  They can't run and Allen makes the LT look a lot better than he is.  

[TimetobringDfence!]

51 minutes ago, Dobbinblitz said:

Agree. The best the OL has ever looked was under Deguglielmo in the one year he was here. Whatever the issues, on the field that OL was solid. I believe a few of the OL recognized his contributions . Present day - Kelly is making fringe LT money at center - we have mor pressing needs. The question is will Isray and Ballard  back up their words and make the necessary moves needed to free up space and improve this roster at critical positions.

I agree loosing the OL coach caused our Oline to regress in pass blocking...and I don't see why we didn't pull the guards more and rush to the outside more against Jax. FR kept dialing runs up the middle when we were getting more yards on the outside run plays...it's the small adjustments him and Flus don't make and the conservative vanilla schemes that hurt us. I honestly think our players are lacking a sense of urgency and competitive edge with Frank at the helm...if the players like him so much why are they under performing under his helm...something is off between Ballard and the coaches and maybe it's Jim siliently putting his hands in the cookie jar...

[Moosejawcolt]

18 hours ago, Mitch Connors said:

I agree Pittman is a #1 WR on several teams and at worst a #2 on most. After that I dont know that we have WR's that would start on any team in the league.

 

As far as Cincy in concerned Boyd put up 800 yards and 5 TD's and that's with Chase and Higgins getting theirs. He is certainly the  Stokely to their Harrison and Wayne but hes lightyears ahead of anything we have outside of Pittman.

 

IMO, this teams needs serious help at the WR spot this offseason.

Show me a team where you would take Pittman over that teams's #1? He is a #2 at most. His production decreased as the year went on not only because of Wentz but  also his lack of elite traits.

[Indyfan4life]

2 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Show me a team where you would take Pittman over that teams's #1? He is a #2 at most. His production decreased as the year went on not only because of Wentz but  also his lack of elite traits.

His stats went down because the entire offense shifted to Taylor and only throwing when need be. Obvious passing situation, and any defense is going to stop the top passing threat. A Wilson/Rodgers/Brady/Stafford would hit him.

[Moosejawcolt]

8 minutes ago, Indyfan4life said:

His stats went down because the entire offense shifted to Taylor and only throwing when need be. Obvious passing situation, and any defense is going to stop the top passing threat. A Wilson/Rodgers/Brady/Stafford would hit him.

Due to his lack of top end speed, Pittman is limited in routes that a typical # 1 can run.

[Rhodelesstraveled]

Pittman is a two.  We need a one.  agree

[lollygagger8]

On 1/16/2022 at 3:33 PM, indyagent17 said:

Once again this is pathetic, there is so much money put into our offensive line and they are 30th in pass blocking?? . I think Ballard needs to go find hard nosed offensive and defensive line coaches to get in these faces of these underachieving players. This team has been called soft for as long as I can remember. It’s time we get some toughness in this team and quit trying to baby our players and become friends with them them

 

They had one in Dave DeGuglielmo "Guz" and fired him.

 

Even though the O-line was the best in the league that year

[Scott Pennock]

And people keep wanting to blame Carson after being hit the most and generally no time to survey the field.......you all should be forced to eat your shoes!

 

The oline will improve with health and continuity and when they start blocking well for Carson again and he has a big year next year it's not because he suddenly figured it out again, or that he is more comfy in the system, or its a contract year, or whatever nonsense you choose......

 

Carson is not the problem......he may not be the solution to winning a Super Bowl, but, given the right supporting cast he can certainly win one!

[Moosejawcolt]

On 1/17/2022 at 12:57 PM, chad72 said:

 

He would start in Cincy over Tyler Boyd, no doubt in my mind. He is at worst behind Chase and Higgins, but an upgrade over Boyd. In Cincy, he would be a #3 but in places like Green Bay, Dallas, Cardinals etc., he would be a good #2 behind Adams, Lamb, Hopkins etc., IMO (yes I do think he is better than Cooper and A J Green at this point in time, probably not in their prime). His value was showcased well by Wentz earlier in the year but as teams realized TY was an old tiger and we had no one other than Pittman, it made it easier to defend us plus Wentz's QB play became more hit and miss as December came along and went from above average to below average.

I think it is more  of a statement on Pittman's talent. I do like him as he is a great run blocker, but I just find his skill set to be slightly above average. You put a #1 corner on him and its over. He needs to be going up against ta #2 corner to be effective. Analyst said  that teams were basically playing one on one against the Colt's receivers and bringing safeties up into the box. You can blame Wentz to some extent but to  say that it was mostly him I believe is ignoring the problem with our skills players.  

[RevoltingBlob]

Presumably most ppl here watch the Cowboys/9ers game. Did anyone but me see Dak struggle? He missed quite a few throws high. Short hopped a few. I'm sure he missed open guys also, I don't remember every play of the game. But there was alot of pressure, he struggled, they lost. 

 

Wentz was under siege the last 2 games of the season. Someone posted in the Raiders game he was pressured 23 of 27 pass attempts, or something like that. And in Jax the pocket was collapsed damn near every time he hit his spot. I can't believe the vast majority of the ppl here are laying the lions share of the blame on Wentz. Dumb plays, risky plays, yes. He does some of those. But when the guy is pressured nearly every pass attempt what do you expect? Won't even comment on our Jr high receiving corp

 

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

They had one in Dave DeGuglielmo "Guz" and fired him.

 

Even though the O-line was the best in the league that year

And what should that tell you?

 

That a coach who has been fired or let go everywhere he’s been INCLUDING by Bill Belichick in NE quickly wears out his welcome. 
 

It’s not like the O-Line has struggled since.   We’ve been good every year since except in pass blocking.   What was different about this year?

 

A new Left Tackle coming off an Achilles surgery, plus 4 of our 5 starter were hurt throughout much of the season.  There’s your answers.   It’s not the coaching. 

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Show me a team where you would take Pittman over that teams's #1? He is a #2 at most. His production decreased as the year went on not only because of Wentz but  also his lack of elite traits.

The moment you wrote the sentence that Pittman is a #2 “at most” you lost the argument.   Period.   That’s a troll’s argument.  
 

There’s no “yeah, but!” Or “what about this?!” to be made by you.   You gave yourself away with “at most”.    Game over. 
 

Embarrassing.      

[Coltsfan98]

On 1/17/2022 at 1:42 PM, JMichael557 said:

Wentz is terrible and always will be terrible. You can bring back Marvin and Reggie in their prime and Wentz could not throw them the ball. He made Philly's line look bad and he made our line look bad. If we do not move on immediately then we are in for several rough years. 

Let's just blame everything on Wentz.

 

The oline was bad because of Wentz.

The receivers were bad because of Wentz.

The TE's are bad because of Wentz.

The play calling was horrible at times because of Wentz.

JT and our run game got stuffed at critical times because of Wentz.

The defense couldn't get off the field and let the Jags look like a SB team because of Wentz.

The kickers missed critical kicks because of Wentz.

All the injuries were because of Wentz.

Omicron was because of Wentz! 

 

Did I miss anything? My goodness he's the greatest scape goat known to FB fans!

 

[RevoltingBlob]

2 hours ago, Coltsfan98 said:

 

Omicron was because of Wentz! 

 

 

 

Well of course, because he wasn't vaxed. He single-handedly could have killed a global pandemic. 

 

I'm astonished at the overwhelming majority blaming Wentz for all of the Colts ills.