Colts OL: 30th in pass blocking, 12th overall

[Nesjan3]

13 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

*, a 30th ranked pass pro is one fantastic excuse.... is it not?

Its one variable in a lot of things. He still makes terrible decisions. Misses wide open check downs. Folds in pressure situations. Has an ego. Apparently not coachable. Has accuracy and mechanics issues. Tries left handed shovel passes. These are the things Eagles fans said about before he got here as well and Frank didn't clean any of it up.

[EastStreet]

7 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

Its one variable in a lot of things. He still makes terrible decisions. Misses wide open check downs. Folds in pressure situations. Has an ego. Apparently not coachable. Has accuracy and mechanics issues. Tries left handed shovel passes. These are the things Eagles fans said about before he got here as well and Frank didn't clean any of it up.

 

lol... Ego? Not coachable? 

OK, good talk..... 

[Nesjan3]

Just now, EastStreet said:

 

lol... Ego? Not coachable? 

OK, good talk..... 

Hey where theres smoke theres usually fire. More than 1 person have said these things about him.

[Nesjan3]

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

lol... Ego? Not coachable? 

OK, good talk..... 

I know your a big stats guy but geuss what sometimes its Jimmy and Joes not X's and O's. Believe it or not some people have big egos and dont respond well to coaching. This is rumor thats been going around about Carson since early in his Philly days when the whole Foles thing happened.

[Fisticuffs111]

18 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

lol... Ego? Not coachable? 

OK, good talk..... 

 

Did you follow Stampede Blue’s stat tracker articles on Wentz this season? 
 

I’m not pretending to act like I deep dive stats on the reg, but the most recent one which went into the season as a whole, really seemed to paint him in a bad light.

 

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2022/1/10/22875722/carson-wentz-stat-tracker-week-18#comments

 

Genuinely wonder if you think there’s bias/explanations to these poor stats.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

5 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

I know your a big stats guy but geuss what sometimes its Jimmy and Joes not X's and O's. Believe it or not some people have big egos and dont respond well to coaching. This is rumor thats been going around about Carson since early in his Philly days when the whole Foles thing happened.

I think stats are good way to evaluate trends within a team. Sometimes though it’s just about winning and having players with the will to win. Stats never tell the complete story.

[EastStreet]

15 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

Hey where theres smoke theres usually fire. More than 1 person have said these things about him.

Reich has said the opposite. 

And as far as egos go, tell me which good QB doesn't have an ego. 

Ever hear Brady or Rodgers talk lol.... Heck, Rivers had a huge ego. Most QBs do. 

Wentz has not come close to showing attitude or being a duck like others have. 

[EastStreet]

14 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

I know your a big stats guy but geuss what sometimes its Jimmy and Joes not X's and O's. Believe it or not some people have big egos and dont respond well to coaching. This is rumor thats been going around about Carson since early in his Philly days when the whole Foles thing happened.

Most QBs would have looked turdish behind a 30th ranked pass pro. 

But hey, you be you and ignore the obvious, and push all your chips in on "rumors"... 

[Nesjan3]

11 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Most QBs would have looked turdish behind a 30th ranked pass pro. 

But hey, you be you and ignore the obvious, and push all your chips in on "rumors"... 

 not putting all my chips in on rumors, those are 2 of many reasons to dislike Carsons play. But hey you do you and put all your chips in on the Oline being bad.

[EastStreet]

19 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

 

Did you follow Stampede Blue’s stat tracker articles on Wentz this season? 
 

I’m not pretending to act like I deep dive stats on the reg, but the most recent one which went into the season as a whole, really seemed to paint him in a bad light.

 

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2022/1/10/22875722/carson-wentz-stat-tracker-week-18#comments

 

Genuinely wonder if you think there’s bias/explanations to these poor stats.

 

I read that. Spends a lot of time on week 18, which was Wentz's worst game of the year. Also the worst OL game of the year.

The article talks about the OL sucking, and cuts Wentz other breaks while also being critical. 

They don't really mention at all that our supporting cast sucks, or the supporting cast efficiency rating is bad. 

They do give him credit for average depth, even though his OL is Swiss Cheese. 

I don't recall a lot of it, but I didn't see it as overly biased. Just limited, and with a heavy lean on the Jags game. 

Other writers have been far more bias IMO.

[Solid84]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

I was on the Leno train too. Many were. I'm gonna bet that Ballard learned a lesson there. 

 

And yup, problems on the blind side can't be diminished (although many have lol).... Totally Fs with a QBs trust and timing. It's why LT is one of the higher paid positions in FB. 

 

On Luck, purely my opinion, but Reich pretty much let him do what he wanted. He didn't have governor on him like we've seen the past 3 years. I'm gonna bet Reich was told that it's not broke, and doesn't need fixing lol... 

I honestly think picking Fisher over Leno has been one Ballard's biggest failures. If Leno had been here this season could have looked very different right now.

[EastStreet]

22 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

 not putting all my chips in on rumors, those are 2 of many reasons to dislike Carsons play. But hey you do you and put all your chips in on the Oline being bad.

Of all our team position ratings/rankings. OL is easily the worst. 3rd worst in the league. Yet folks gloss over it. 

So yes, I'd push most of my chips in on the most obvious trouble spot. 

Never said Carson is elite. I've said he's complimentary. 

Complimentary requires other things to work.... The OL didn't. 

[EastStreet]

15 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

I honestly think picking Fisher over Leno has been one Ballard's biggest failures. If Leno had been here this season could have looked very different right now.

I agree 1000%. 

 

I think Leno would have easily equated to 2 additional wins (if not 3), one of them likely vs TN, when Carson was hit 7 times. TN's DL gave us fits all night on the left side.....

 

And 2 more wins inclusive of one vs TN, and we're 2nd in the AFC. 3 and we're maybe a 1... 

[FuedinHatfield]

5 hours ago, ColtJax said:

 

Yep, if you look at that video from Kurt Warner it was obvious that the Jags didn't even cover the check down guy. Wentz took 3 sacks that were 100% on him, he just locked onto 1 guy and held onto the ball. JT could have had 100 yards receiving if he just tossed him a few check down balls..

If you keep taking those checkdowns you inevitably slow down the pass rush. Not snapping the ball at the very last seconds of the play clock helps too. Wentz does none of this stuff. That's where I kind of agree and I must reiterate the "kind of agree" on Jimmy G. He may not be able to get the highlight plays or the spectacular throws but he can read and understand when to hit the wide open man underneath. But is getting Wentz to do that at this stage in his career impossible?  If not maybe having a full camp may help him. Not saying it will but crazier things have happened. That's for the coaches and Ballard to decide though. I honestly believe they have a good idea at this point and Carson probably already does too about the direction they want to go. I think Carson started losing this team, coaching staff and ownership against Vegas and completely lost them in Jax. Hard to come back from that.  

[Tsarquise]

4 hours ago, TheMiz said:

No, not suddenly. It wasn't great last year either. Rivers just got rid of the ball extremely fast. 

If it wasn't great, I'm sure it wasn't 30th in the league, and if pass protection is so poor, the Colts have major problems with team building.

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, Tsarquise said:

If it wasn't great, I'm sure it wasn't 30th in the league, and if pass protection is so poor, the Colts have major problems with team building.

 

Pass pro last year was very very good, regardless of RIvers TtT.

We didn't have guys on skates like Fisher last year. We didn't have a guy like Davenport playing a lot of snaps in decent stretches of the year either... 

I'm not going to pretend AC was his old elite self last season, but he was several big steps up vs Fisher in pass pro.

And while Kelly was not elite last year either, he was significantly better than this year. 

Some suggest he's lost a step, but I think the early injury really set him back this year, and impacted his power all year long.

[GoColts8818]

So what’s more likely the line and receivers not named Pittman all took a step back this year or the QB play this year wasn’t as good as last year and it’s impacting other areas of the team?

[EastStreet]

16 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

So what’s more likely the line and receivers not named Pittman all took a step back this year or the QB play this year wasn’t as good as last year and it’s impacting other areas of the team?

The major change was Hilton started 15 games last year (led the team in yards), but only 9 this year.

 

But the snap difference was even bigger. TY had less than half the snaps in 2021 compared to 2020.

 

And TY's snaps were replaced by Pascal and Dulin.... 

 

That's just no bueno even if you ignore the obvious other things like the OL sucking

 

 

 

[coming on strong]

15 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

I don't recall our OL every grading that low in pass pro....

 

Even in for instance 2015, our pass pro was 12th. 2014, which was arguably Luck's best year, we were at least 21st in pass pro, and our low grade that year was skewed by injury and Cherilus playing bad. 2013 was probably the worst I can remember, but it wasn't 30th.... lol... 

 

30th I'm sure is a new low for us.

how do they grade the pass protection ?   if wentz holds onto the ball for 7 seconds and the line holds up until the end giving up a pressure or sack does the QB get blamed ?   that is what i wonder if rivers came back i doubt they would of ranked that low

[Rhodelesstraveled]

Me personally have thought for two years now the OL is way over rated and overpaid.  This stat does not surprise me.  I thought the OL got worked both TN games and it certainly got worked in Jax.  Jax has a pretty good DL.  Count me as one of the people who would move Q for some draft capital and I'd rebuild the OL.  A LT is more important than Q.  

[EastStreet]

5 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

how do they grade the pass protection ?   if wentz holds onto the ball for 7 seconds and the line holds up until the end giving up a pressure or sack does the QB get blamed ?   that is what i wonder if rivers came back i doubt they would of ranked that low

QB is faulted for sacks he is responsible for.

The individual OLs are graded on their own, and is more assignment based. It's similar to win rate from what I understand. 

 

Here's the full description.

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-how-we-grade-offensive-and-defensive-linemen

[compuls1v3]

15 hours ago, coltsfan_canada said:

 

Yeah I have been against moving Q to LT but I guess after last season I dont mind having Q move to LT because many guys were decent in Q absence. Reed Pinter Pryor all played well so if we are gonna pay Q might as well try him out.

 

 

Wentz never learn how to throw away instead of crazy shovel passes

Ballard isn’t moving Q to LT.  He said it in his presser.

[GoColts8818]

15 hours ago, coltsfan_canada said:

 

Yeah I have been against moving Q to LT but I guess after last season I dont mind having Q move to LT because many guys were decent in Q absence. Reed Pinter Pryor all played well so if we are gonna pay Q might as well try him out.

 

 

Wentz never learn how to throw away instead of crazy shovel passes

When asked about it in Ballard’s presser he couldn’t get the word no out of his mouth fast enough.  
 

He also said “when we do the contract” about Q.  He’s going to get paid a lot of money to be a guard and a lot of people here aren’t going to be happy about it.

[jbaron04]

17 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

Jimmy g

I’m scared of his durability but I would take a chance of the 49ers cuts him pre June 1 to save 25m

[smittywerb]

Injuries, poor LT play, predictable playcalling, and wentz all play a factor into why pass protection dropped.

 

for the check down argument, you start hitting those check downs and the defense will begin to back off, which didn’t happen because we didn’t do it.  Fix that I bet you were far from 30th in pass protection.  It’s not a coincidence that the pass pro dropped that bad in one year.  You’re telling me that the OL that Manning had in the Later years before he left is better than this one?  If an LT makes that big of a difference where we go from an good  line to 30th in pass pro then crap throw all the money we have to a good one, but I don’t think that’s it.
 

once again, stats are nice but eye test shows me every game pretty much we played into the defense hands.  Just pointing to the OL is not going to fix the other problems with our passing attack.

[TimetobringDfence!]

8 hours ago, BigO said:

That is unacceptable for the money that is invested in the OL. Fisher was a big miss by Ballard. He should have signed Leno which would have solved our LT issue. Changes need to be made such as trading Kelly and spending on a new and better LT.

Fisher and Dayo were way too big of risky moves on injured players. Fisher has got to be replaced by Pryor or Big Q with another LT be signed for reassurance. We really over paid for Wentz who is just a game manager with no sense of when to throw a ball away. Hindsight is 20/20, but we would have been better off trying to make a trade for Mariota and running with him over Carson...we need an upgrade at CB, FS, DL, LT, TE, and WR to be competitive with Wentz as QB1...

[compuls1v3]

25 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

When asked about it in Ballard’s presser he couldn’t get the word no out of his mouth fast enough.  
 

He also said “when we do the contract” about Q.  He’s going to get paid a lot of money to be a guard and a lot of people here aren’t going to be happy about it.

I’m sure they will structure the contract appropriately.  I want to see Ballard get LT right.  Pryor may just be that guy, but we’ll still need a backup.

[GoColts8818]

4 minutes ago, compuls1v3 said:

I’m sure they will structure the contract appropriately.  I want to see Ballard get LT right.  Pryor may just be that guy, but we’ll still need a backup.

I am sure they will.  I am not against paying Nelson to be a guard.  I just know there seems to be a lot here who are.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 hours ago, jbaron04 said:

I’m scared of his durability but I would take a chance of the 49ers cuts him pre June 1 to save 25m

Wentz would have to be cut by March 19th. So if he isn’t cut by then he will be back.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 hours ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

Fisher and Dayo were way too big of risky moves on injured players. Fisher has got to be replaced by Pryor or Big Q with another LT be signed for reassurance. We really over paid for Wentz who is just a game manager with no sense of when to throw a ball away. Hindsight is 20/20, but we would have been better off trying to make a trade for Mariota and running with him over Carson...we need an upgrade at CB, FS, DL, LT, TE, and WR to be competitive with Wentz as QB1...

We would of been better off going after Foles or Mariota and trying to draft Fields or Jones.

[Hawkeyecolt]

I’m not handing that position off to Pryor and I like him. I’m trading Kelly and dumping Wentz and Doyle.  Paying Q $20 million to play Guard and paying Kelly what he’s scheduled to get paid while not having a LT isn’t the best use of money.  I would trade Kelly and sign Armstead. The cap is supposed to jump a lot in 2023.  Id guarantee Armstead a large base in 2023 and 2024 in return for a smaller base pay in 2022. Pinter could do the job just fine. 

[AKB]

we have a run blocking line and an indecisive QB, this really isn't all that suprising.  Wentz completely ignored open checkdowns on almost every pass attempt.  

[EastStreet]

40 minutes ago, Hawkeyecolt said:

I’m not handing that position off to Pryor and I like him. I’m trading Kelly and dumping Wentz and Doyle.  Paying Q $20 million to play Guard and paying Kelly what he’s scheduled to get paid while not having a LT isn’t the best use of money.  I would trade Kelly and sign Armstead. The cap is supposed to jump a lot in 2023.  Id guarantee Armstead a large base in 2023 and 2024 in return for a smaller base pay in 2022. Pinter could do the job just fine. 

 

I'd be OK with trading RK for minimum a 2nd. 

I'd be OK with starting both Pryor (if not expensive) and Pinter, but I'd bring in a decent backup LT in case things didn't work out.

Or use the 2nd from RK to get a LT in the draft. 

I watched Pryor pretty close in a re-watch of LVR that I wasn't going to do lol...

I was impressed. He moves laterally so much better than Fish. 

I know it's a risk, but I'd roll the dice for a year with Pryor, Pinter, and Wentz.

If it doesn't work out, make the bigger moves in 2023. At least you'll have the draft picks then.

[EastStreet]

1 hour ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

We would of been better off going after Foles or Mariota and trying to draft Fields or Jones.

 

huh? and huh?

[Hawkeyecolt]

5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I'd be OK with trading RK for minimum a 2nd. 

I'd be OK with starting both Pryor (if not expensive) and Pinter, but I'd bring in a decent backup LT in case things didn't work out.

Or use the 2nd from RK to get a LT in the draft. 

I watched Pryor pretty close in a re-watch of LVR that I wasn't going to do lol...

I was impressed. He moves laterally so much better than Fish. 

I know it's a risk, but I'd roll the dice for a year with Pryor, Pinter, and Wentz.

If it doesn't work out, make the bigger moves in 2023. At least you'll have the draft picks then.

I like Pryor as the swing tackle. I thought he looked much better at RT. I’m a fan though. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

huh? and huh?

Rumor is they loved fields. If they truly liked him that much instead of Wentz they should of went after a true bridge vet as insurance in case they got out bid in a trade up. That’s where Foles comes in. Jones would of fit Reich’s scheme perfect. They reportedly loved fields.  Both guys were there for the taking to move up.

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, Hawkeyecolt said:

I like Pryor as the swing tackle. I thought he looked much better at RT. I’m a fan though. 

 

I'll roll the dice lol

 

[EastStreet]

7 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Rumor is they loved fields. If they truly liked him that much instead of Wentz they should of went after a true bridge vet as insurance in case they got out bid in a trade up. That’s where Foles comes in. Jones would of fit Reich’s scheme perfect. They reportedly loved fields.  Both guys were there for the taking to move up.

 

Jones would be horrible behind a bad OL. He's a statue type. Would have gotten killed this year in Indy. He's probably in the best spot for his own success. Only team I think might be better for him is NO.

Never cared for Fields. Good kid, I just don't see him translating well to the NFL.

Foles lol... nah. He couldn't beat out bad QBs this year.

Nothing against Mariota, but he's a backup at best. We have plenty enough tape on him. Good guy though. 

 

[NewColtsFan]

22 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Rumor is they loved fields. If they truly liked him that much instead of Wentz they should of went after a true bridge vet as insurance in case they got out bid in a trade up. That’s where Foles comes in. Jones would of fit Reich’s scheme perfect. They reportedly loved fields.  Both guys were there for the taking to move up.

Both Jones and Fields were rumored to be picked by SF at #3.   There was no way to know how far they’d fall?  
 

The Colts had to make decisions in late February/early March.   They couldn’t afford to wait to the draft in late April.   Plus, we were looking for someone who could win now, not his 2nd or 3rd year.   Or perhaps never. 

[Defjamz26]

Andrew Luck’s OL was just as bad if not worse and he had no issues producing. The same could be said for Deshaun Watson a year ago 

 

Great QB’s produce.