Irsay on the season and changes

[John Hammonds]

11 hours ago, yankeeclipper said:

Glad that Jim had meeting last night with  Ballard and Reich.  That was a humiliating loss.  Worse game of the year for the Colts.  I doubt that this team is going to trade or cut Wentz. I see no way we get Rogers and I doubt Wilson is coming to Indy. Watson's situation is a big question mark and Colts will not trade away future with a QB with an uncertain future.   I would not blame Isray  if he is upset about players not getting  vaccinated.   COVID played havoc with roster at end of the season and most of this was avoidable.  We got lucky against Cardinals as team played tough with depleted roster. It caught up to them in last 2 games where team was lethargic and had no fight in them.

 

I sense they had candid conversation on weaknesses at  receiver slots (wide receiver and tight end), lack of depth in secondary,  poor pass rush,  and  inconsistent play by OL with pass protection (particularly last 2 games) and Wentz's  offensive struggles.  I  think he probably probed on needed changes with offensive scheme and how we can build an offense that plays to Wentz's strengths. There will be roster changes mostly with guys like Doyle and Hilton who retire and others like decisions not to resign  Pascal and Rhodes.  They will  restructure some contracts to have more cap room and they will look to prioritize  key Free Agents   to fill holes  and use draft to get best available players at other positions that they cannot fill through FA market. 

 

I think Isray is a good owner. He has a good GM and I think Reich is a good coach. They will likely make some coaching changes to improve in areas that need to be improved. stay tuned. This loss stings. We should be in playoffs although I thought we would not go deep into playoffs with holes in secondary and  receiver.

 

 

Spot on!  And Great Post!

I'm betting that Irsay sat them down, went over the goods and the bads, just like you outlined, and then gave them an ultimatum:  I will accept nothing less than a playoff victory next year.  Consider your seats hot.  Nothing less.  If we see anything resembling the embarrassment that we just did, both of you will be looking for jobs.

[stitches]

10 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Doing it that way (1 more year with Wentz) gives us more support for any QB that leads the team and gives us answers on Wentz if he can get the job done with weapons added.

Yeah, overall I don't mind that option... but that's not because I have any hope for Wentz. It's because we have no better option and this course of action kills 2 birds with 1 stone - prepares the team for the next chapter and removes all the excuses from Wentz. This is BTW precisely why last off-season I wanted us to go HEAVY offense in both the draft and FA - I wanted Wentz to have no excuses. And now all you see is excuses - he had bad pass pro(even though he makes things worse for the OLine by not getting rid off the ball quickly), he had bad weapons(even though he had a 1000 yards receiver and a freaking MVP candidate on his team), Reich's playcalling was bad(even though he was supposed to be Wentz' only chance for redemption), etc. I want no excuses next year. Get the best LT you can get. And spend a %ton of draft picks on weapons. I do not care for the defense next several years. We need to sort out the QB spot and we need to know for sure one way or the other - is Wentz a great QB being hindered by those around him or not? And if he's not we need to know if the next guy can be the guy for us... again, with no excuses. 

[DougDew]

Why would Rodgers or Wilson want to play with this WR/TE group?

 

Go from DK and Lockett to Pittman and Pascal.   LOL.

[DougDew]

35 minutes ago, stitches said:

This is BTW precisely why last off-season I wanted us to go HEAVY offense in both the draft and FA - I wanted Wentz to have no excuses. And now all you see is excuses - he had bad pass pro(even though he makes things worse for the OLine by not getting rid off the ball quickly), he had bad weapons(even though he had a 1000 yards receiver and a freaking MVP candidate on his team), Reich's playcalling was bad(even though he was supposed to be Wentz' only chance for redemption), etc. I want no excuses next year. Get the best LT you can get.

So which is it?  The receivers and LT are fine, or do we need to get better ones?

 

And we want better ones just so there are answers to a debate about Wentz, or do we want better ones because the ones we have are average?

[stitches]

14 minutes ago, DougDew said:

So which is it?  The receivers and LT are fine, or do we need to get better ones?

 

And we want better ones just so there are answers to a debate about Wentz, or do we want better ones because the ones we have are average?

We need better weapons and we need better LT play. This doesn't mean Wentz played well and it doesn't mean the LT play and lack of weapons was the reason Wentz was missing open receivers, was late through his progressions, was late to throw, was inaccurate when he was throwing. We can evaluate both and we can want both to be better. This is not about a debate on a football forum. Who cares about that? We can have fun discussing this stuff but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter. It's about our decisionmakers having a better idea of where we stand with the QB. 

 

BTW how would we know we have good enough weapons if Wentz is always late and inaccurate throwing to them? When a QB is the guy, he elevates those around him. Luck was doing it for ages. Made complete scrubs into serviceable options. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

54 minutes ago, stitches said:

Yeah, overall I don't mind that option... but that's not because I have any hope for Wentz. It's because we have no better option and this course of action kills 2 birds with 1 stone - prepares the team for the next chapter and removes all the excuses from Wentz. This is BTW precisely why last off-season I wanted us to go HEAVY offense in both the draft and FA - I wanted Wentz to have no excuses. And now all you see is excuses - he had bad pass pro(even though he makes things worse for the OLine by not getting rid off the ball quickly), he had bad weapons(even though he had a 1000 yards receiver and a freaking MVP candidate on his team), Reich's playcalling was bad(even though he was supposed to be Wentz' only chance for redemption), etc. I want no excuses next year. Get the best LT you can get. And spend a %ton of draft picks on weapons. I do not care for the defense next several years. We need to sort out the QB spot and we need to know for sure one way or the other - is Wentz a great QB being hindered by those around him or not? And if he's not we need to know if the next guy can be the guy for us... again, with no excuses. 

To be fair luke Reich said with no OTA and camp there were things they couldn’t work on. Maybe that changes this year.

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, stitches said:

We need better weapons and we need better LT play. This doesn't mean Wentz played well and it doesn't mean the LT play and lack of weapons was the reason Wentz was missing open receivers, was late through his progressions, was late to throw, was inaccurate when he was throwing. We can evaluate both and we can want both to be better. 

 

BTW how would we know we have good enough weapons if Wentz is always late and inaccurate throwing to them? When a QB is the guy, he elevates those around him. Luck was doing it for ages. Made complete scrubs into serviceable options. 

OK.  You're saying that Wentz played with subpar receivers and LTs throughout the year.  Just wanted to clarify.

 

Luck relied on Reggie and TY....two All Pros at the time.  We had a revolving door #2 WR after Reggie.

 

I'm not a huge Wentz defender.  There is no excuse for him playing so badly at times.

 

I still want the forum to answer one question....Who are the top three best starting QBs of the nonplayoff teams?

[Old Man and the COLTS]

 Maybe O line coach Strasser (sp) said it best paraphrasing if u don’t go out and block I won’t be coaching much longer Chip from sideline as seen on hardknocks 

[stitches]

7 minutes ago, DougDew said:

OK.  You're saying that Wentz played with subpar receivers and LTs throughout the year.  Just wanted to clarify.

I actually thought Fisher was very good run blocker most of the year and he was one of the reasons for Taylor's big season. But yeah, for the purposes of Wentz' individual performance - his pass-pro was pretty bad. Definitely needs improvement. His receivers are below average group in the league. But he did have one of the best receiving RBs in the league... just for some reason all of a sudden we couldn't use him(hint -  because Wentz is late with his reads), we did have Pittman and TY... we had the exact same group Rivers had last year. Again - we need better players there. But those players are not the reason Wentz played the way he did.  

 

7 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Luck relied on Reggie and TY....two All Pros at the time.  We had a revolving door #2 WR after Reggie.

 

I'm not a huge Wentz defender.  There is no excuse for him playing so badly at times.

 

I still want the forum to answer one question....Who are the top three best starting QBs of the nonplayoff teams?

Justin Herbert, Russell Wilson, Lamar Jackson, Kirk Cousins, Matt Ryan, ... 

[CoachLite]

Here's the hard part - How to separate reasons for poor and erratic performance from excuses. This is a very complex and complicated matter, and many organizations aren't capable of dealing with complex and complicated issues. Why? They try to simplify too much, and they miss important but subtle problems.

[BigO]

1. We will give Wentz one more year to prove himself especially after giving up a 1&3. If no improvement then he is gone

2. We need to get a number 1 or 2 receiver. Pittman needs help

3.We also need better tight ends

4. We also need a shutdown corner. That would greatly improve our defense

5. I would trade Kelly

6. Players gone will be Pascal, Glow, Rhodes, T.Y., Banogu and Doyle

7. We need a new OC and DC and defensive line coach

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I was hoping we would hear of a Eberflus firing. Hoping it comes today.

[DougDew]

15 minutes ago, stitches said:

I actually thought Fisher was very good run blocker most of the year and he was one of the reasons for Taylor's big season. But yeah, for the purposes of Wentz' individual performance - his pass-pro was pretty bad. Definitely needs improvement. His receivers are below average group in the league. But he did have one of the best receiving RBs in the league... just for some reason all of a sudden we couldn't use him(hint -  because Wentz is late with his reads), we did have Pittman and TY... we had the exact same group Rivers had last year. Again - we need better players there. But those players are not the reason Wentz played the way he did.  

 

Justin Herbert, Russell Wilson, Lamar Jackson, Kirk Cousins, Matt Ryan, ... 

I agree with Herbert and Ryan.  Not sure that Wilson has it anymore.  Lamar works well in a gimmicky offense.  Cousins, nah.

 

The passing game under Rivers was an extended running game.  He relied on Hines a lot as a receiver, back when JT was a rookie and had poor vision as a runner.  TY was a non factor then too.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

This is crazy. This is from Holder.

 

And no, I was not up in arms about those moves at the time. I let it play out. BUT, looking at it in hindsight, there are questions. Signing Fisher vs Charles Leno, for example, was absolute malpractice by Chris Ballard. Leno was begging to come here. I know this first hand.

[DougDew]

9 minutes ago, CoachLite said:

Here's the hard part - How to separate reasons for poor and erratic performance from excuses. This is a very complex and complicated matter, and many organizations aren't capable of dealing with complex and complicated issues. Why? They try to simplify too much, and they miss important but subtle problems.

Try to separate out the last two games from the rest and see what changed with Wentz.  It looked to me like he felt that he had to do it all once again.  Teams finally shut down JT with the stacked box and Wentz didn't have the running game as a backstop...he had little help.

 

We used to say the same thing about Manning a lot.  Always looking for the big play instead of the methodical chain moving.  Like Manning, its a classic case of the QB not feeling that the defense can make a stop.  In this case, the defense could not get three and outs against Lawrence. 

 

No excuses for approaching throws with bad mechanics and bad accuracy though.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[DougDew]

11 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

 

Ballard did not really remain stagnate in the "FA" market.  He signed Leonard for $60M, TY for $10M, Fisher for $8M, and Hines for $6M.  Vets to big contracts.  Shades of Grigson.

 

[CoachLite]

6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Try to separate out the last two games from the rest and see what changed with Wentz.  It looked to me like he felt that he had to do it all once again.  Teams finally shut down JT with the stacked box and Wentz didn't have the running game as a backstop...he had little help.

 

We used to say the same thing about Manning a lot.  Always looking for the big play instead of the methodical chain moving.  Like Manning, its a classic case of the QB not feeling that the defense can make a stop.  In this case, the defense could not get three and outs against Lawrence. 

 

No excuses for approaching throws with bad mechanics and bad accuracy though.

Think about the difference in how you would react if: 1) You didn't have a plan and knowledge how to adapt (Plan B), and 2) you knew very well how to execute Plan B, Plan C ... That's preparation. It may not always work, but it sure drops the panic level when it happens.

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, CoachLite said:

Think about the difference in how you would react if: 1) You didn't have a plan and knowledge how to adapt (Plan B), and 2) you knew very well how to execute Plan B, Plan C ... That's preparation. It may not always work, but it sure drops the panic level when it happens.

Well, even Manning fell into the same hero ball tendencies when our defense stunk and he had no running game.   Cost the Colts some playoff games.

[coach kline]

13 hours ago, B~Town said:

With Coaches reply when asked about Wentz  it sounds like there is good chance he will not be the Colts starting QB next year . 

We can only hope

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Please take him off our hands. I doubt we are firing before he interviews lol.

 

 

[richard pallo]

Our OL got bullied against the Jags,  Absolutely dominated. I think their performance was absolutely influenced by Kelly returning to the team and how his depression effected their mental concentration and there overall mood.  That’s my feeling.  They were not the same team when he returned.  
       Given that an off-season will help in that regard I am starting to think that the team might seriously consider moving Q to LT now.  We are going to give him a big contract.  Moving him there would give us two big bookend tackles and would probably save us cap space in the long term maybe this year as well.  We should be able to resign Glow, Reed and Pryor without much trouble as well.  I think his move there has to be on the table now.

.

 

[richard pallo]

6 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

Please take him off our hands. I doubt we are firing before he interviews lol.

 

 

Brown going to the Bears along with Flus sounds good to me.  Win win.

[Lancer1]

5 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

Please take him off our hands. I doubt we are firing before he interviews lol.

 

 

Agree, and I can't see the Jaguars hiring him, especially after their rookie QB  dominated his defense on Sunday but the Bears, who usually look for defensive mindset just may  take him off our hands, especially with the success that Philadelphia has after hiring our former OC.

[coltsfeva]

10 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Well, even Manning fell into the same hero ball tendencies when our defense stunk and he had no running game.   Cost the Colts some playoff games.

 Yeah, to your point, we remember people saying how Manning “couldn’t win the big one”.

   Frank seems to think he can change Wentz and that he can develop during OTAs. I really hope he’s right because it’s going to take a lot to overcome our fears that Wentz will mess up, in the playoffs.
    I haven’t given up on Fisher: the guy had a torn Achilles, for goodness sakes. 

    Maybe Dayo and Paye will develop and become exceptional pass rushers, as Mathis did.

      Our secondary might be solid, with a draft addition, more pressure and another year’s experience. 
      

[TigerColt]

Jimmy G anyone?  Would take him over what we have now.  

 

Joseph

[Colt.45]

47 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

I was hoping we would hear of a Eberflus firing. Hoping it comes today.

He and Ed Dodds are interviewing with Chicago soon. 

Flus' defense may have left something to be desired but honestly when you've got bad pass rushers, not sure what to expect from a DC regardless of scheme. The defense can get much worse than it was under Flus.....much much worse.

[AwesomeAustin]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

OK.  You're saying that Wentz played with subpar receivers and LTs throughout the year.  Just wanted to clarify.

 

Luck relied on Reggie and TY....two All Pros at the time.  We had a revolving door #2 WR after Reggie.

 

I'm not a huge Wentz defender.  There is no excuse for him playing so badly at times.

 

I still want the forum to answer one question....Who are the top three best starting QBs of the nonplayoff teams?

Russel Wilson 

Justin Herbert 

Carson Wentz 

[Gramz]

2 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

Russel Wilson 

Justin Herbert 

Carson Wentz 

I can agree with this.

[IrsaysArmy]

10 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I have been a,Wentz fan. However  I saw his post games remarks and I thought he came across as very blah. Like taking no blame and  that was very alarming to me. He also seemed like  he didn't care. 

He comes Off very arrogant and entitled for sure. 

[DougDew]

10 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

Russel Wilson 

Justin Herbert 

Carson Wentz 

Wilson is losing his youthful legs.  What would he be without DK and Lockett?  I think he's declining.

 

I think that Matt Ryan is better than Carson.

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, stitches said:

Yes, but now the rest of the league has one more year of watching him play mediocre football and shrink in the worst possible moments with the coach who was supposed to be his savior. Also, last year was a strong QB draft so a lot of the teams that might have been desperate for QB, now either have one or have a young guy they are invested in for the time being. 

 

Agree. I think this is going to be an interesting draft for QB: There are a handful of teams with top 10 picks who could be looking for a QB, however, they might not want to use that high of a pick in a weak class. If QBs like Fields and Jones can slip out of the top 10, I would think the QBs in this group would fall further. The back half of the draft includes most teams with QBs.

 

So, in this scenario, a couple of interesting QBs could slip to the 2nd round, which would be within striking distance. Walter Football only has Pickett, Willis and Howell in the 1st round...with Strong, Corral and Glass in the 2nd round.

 

I am very intrigued by Corral, even with his size limitations. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

28 minutes ago, cjrichard said:

Jimmy G anyone?  Would take him over what we have now.  

 

Joseph

Lmao. Jimmy ha ma to be surrounded by great talent. SF has a ton of weapons.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

17 minutes ago, IrsaysArmy said:

He comes Off very arrogant and entitled for sure. 

That person clearly didn’t watch his presser. He said he has to get better multiple times.

[IrsaysArmy]

1 minute ago, Wentzszn said:

That person clearly didn’t watch his presser. He said he has to get better multiple times.

Yes but overall in my opinion he thinks he’s high and mighty. 

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Ballard did not really remain stagnate in the "FA" market.  He signed Leonard for $60M, TY for $10M, Fisher for $8M, and Hines for $6M.  Vets to big contracts.  Shades of Grigson.

 

 

I wouldn't say they were stagnate, but the offseason plan was basically just a series of lateral moves, likely designed to replace and get younger at key areas:

 

Rivers ---> Wentz

AC ---> Fisher

Burton ---> Granson

Houston and Autry ---> Paye and Dayo

 

They didn't really anything add to the roster, outside of some OL depth. And unfortunately, in most cases, they have downgraded (for now).

 

But it's not going to get easier to sign FAs.

[masterlock]

14 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

Where  does Jason think the 40million for these guys is going to come from lmao. So irresponsible to put this out there.

 

Who cares what some random guy named Jason Spears thinks? As far as I can tell, he has no journalism credentials, has never been involved at the professional level with the NFL or even sports in general. And I can find no source or biography to indicate otherwise. So I'm not sure why his opinion should be viewed with any special authority.

[Fisticuffs111]

1 hour ago, Wentzszn said:

 

Lol “we didn’t talk about”

 

Oh, plenty of people talked about that, Holder. Guarantee he had some smart* replies to fans who brought this up at the time. Actually, I definitely remember him downplaying/being snide to fans who talked about letting those DE’s go.

[Fisticuffs111]

1 hour ago, Wentzszn said:

I was hoping we would hear of a Eberflus firing. Hoping it comes today.

I really don’t think we’ll fire him if he doesn’t get a HC job.

 

Seems like that’s your no 1 culprit for this seasons misfortunes but I’d heavily disagree there.