Context for Wentz Critics

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

I dont have any proof lol,  but you dont have any proof that he was never coming here either. His team came out and said he had interest in the Colts. Whether that was true or not we will never know.

Fair point but he wanted to go to a team where he could dictate things like the Bucs for example with a great D. Our D is good but not like theirs was last year.  

[BlackTiger]

19 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

You say could've had Brady", where is that proof.

the media did say he wanted to come here.  it wasnt just one guy making a tweet, Toms camp put that out there and they all reported it

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, BlackTiger said:

the media did say he wanted to come here.  it wasnt just one guy making a tweet, Toms camp put that out there and they all reported it

Tom is the GOAT (along with Peyton  - I had to get that in) but not sold on he would've came here. I heard rumors about it so I see where you guys are saying that. I just can't picture it but that is my opinion. 

[NewColtsFan]

12 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

the media did say he wanted to come here.  it wasnt just one guy making a tweet, Toms camp put that out there and they all reported it

I think the media said there was interest.   I don’t recall reading or hearing that he wanted to come here, or we were his number one choice?    There’s a difference. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I think the media said there was interest.   I don’t recall reading or hearing that he wanted to come here, or we were his number one choice?    There’s a difference. 

Yep, that is what I was basically saying. I agree.

[BlackTiger]

12 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I think the media said there was interest.   I don’t recall reading or hearing that he wanted to come here

 

9 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yep, that is what I was basically saying. I agree.

 

splitting hairs, his agent said he was interested in coming here when he was a free agent.  that usually means the team could have signed him if they were interested too

 

They wouldnt say he was interested for no reason, Peter king isnt the type to just make something like that up either.  his exact words were the Brady camp had interest in Indianapolis

 

other outlets reported the same thing

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Terry  Bradshaw just defended Wentz on the pregame. He said it’s really hard as a QB when  your not throwing much.

[landrus13]

I don't know if it's true or not, but I have a friend who works at the Indy airport, and he said Brady flew into Indy this offseason and had a visit with the Indy brass. 

[Les Poulains]

Anyone mentioned yet that QBR might be the worst stat in the universe?

 

Charlie Batch game with 12/17 184 yards 3 td's 2 picks had a perfect QBR. Just a complete nonsense statistic. 

 

If you've watched Carson Wentz play this season, you know he's been average at best. Pretty good in a few games. Terrible in a few games.

 

The caveats about the pre-season apply, that is a valid excuse. The receiving core isn't incredible, the oline have been just ok. Those are true as well.

 

We don't have to systematically defend his actual play on the field, though, and make up reasons for why he's actually been good. He's often been quite bad, that's just very evident.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Les Poulains said:

Anyone mentioned yet that QBR might be the worst stat in the universe?

 

Charlie Batch game with 12/17 184 yards 3 td's 2 picks had a perfect QBR. Just a complete nonsense statistic. 

 

If you've watched Carson Wentz play this season, you know he's been average at best. Pretty good in a few games. Terrible in a few games.

 

The caveats about the pre-season apply, that is a valid excuse. The receiving core isn't incredible, the oline have been just ok. Those are true as well.

 

We don't have to systematically defend his actual play on the field, though, and make up reasons for why he's actually been good. He's often been quite bad, that's just very evident.

We actually agree on something as in QBR and QB Rating, I don't pay attention to either. Both are overrated. 

[BlackTiger]

i dont see how that was confusing

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/raiders/nfl-rumors-tom-brady-had-interest-colts-they-chose-philip-rivers#:~:text=But not the Indianapolis Colts,Angeles Chargers quarterback Philip Rivers.

[EastStreet]

2 hours ago, csmopar said:

I think the bigger question is what the heck happened to our top 5 OL?! Surely AC’s retirement couldn’t have set us back that badly

Just injury and Covid for the most part.

Q is back playing at an elite level. Glow is having his arguably best season. Smith is back and playing great.

 

Just LT and C have been iffy lately. 

[EastStreet]

4 hours ago, JMichael557 said:

Your post misses the point about Wentz. No one questions his physical ability. It is his decision making. Wentz is known to make bad decisions and to panic under pressure. That is what is happening to the Colts.   He also holds the ball too long which shows up in a poorer offensive line rating. He has also been very lucky with interceptions or lack thereof this year. Several dropped interceptions. Last weeks game is a prime example. He throws a pass up for grabs that should have been intercepted. The two DB's fight over the ball and deflect it to Hilton. What should have been an INT on paper looks like a great play. Even his completions to open receivers have not been on the money costing YAC.  Hopefully with a full year Frank can fix him but after 7 years it will be difficult. 

 

Sorry, but you're over amplifying some of the bad. He's got one of the best INT% in the league. Add a few more, he's still very good. 

 

And what you call bad, a lot would call 50/50 shots, which is simply part of the game. Those aren't 9 routes throwing to a guy in stride. They are obvious 50/50 possession tosses. 

 

His time to throw is 2.83, which is lower than Mahomes, Allen, and Jackson. He's not even bottom 10. And he's always had a longer TtT. He's shown in games vs good DLs that he can cut that time down significantly. So not a big deal. The point of the comp though is purely he's had a lot worse than previous QBs, or Mahomes this year, who has very similar stats. 

 

So I'd say, I didn't miss the point. I'd say you ignored pretty clear comps, and impacts. 

[Narcosys]

12 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Just a little context and comparison for all those whining about QB play.....

 

                              OL Rank   QBR      PR       TD%         INT%           ANY/A     Supporting Cast (rank)

Luck18                   #3             #5       98.7       6.1             2.3               6.95          NA

Brissett19               #3            #21     88.0       4.0            1.3               5.87           NA

Rivers20                  #7           #19      97.0      4.4             2.0              7.18            #11

Wentz21                 #16*         #8       95.8      5.3              1.2              6.72           #22 (driven up by catching RBs)

Mahomes21            #2*          #5       98.8       5.7              2.1              7.1            #13

 

Note - OL rank for 21 is through the first 3Qs (12-13 games)

 

So.....

• Wentz had no preseason
• Wentz had the worst OL of our previous 3 QBs, and way worse than KC this year
• Wentz was coming off surgery and injured early
• Wentz's supporting cast of pass catchers is just not great

 

Yet, Wentz is is top 10 in QBR, not far off from Mahomes (or Luck in 18) in QBR or PR, and has one of the best TD/INT ratios in the league...... 

ANY/A is not far off, which is a bit shocking to me given Reich's play calling. 

 

In short..

Is he perfect. No.

Is he bad. No.

Will he be better with a better and more stable OL. Very likely. 

Will he be better with improved pass catchers. Very likely.

Has he improved dramatically since last year, and improved with a mediocre OL and pass catchers...... Heck yes.... 

 

 

Folks need to chill... 

Ah, more excuses 

 

I love em,  give me more lol

[EastStreet]

4 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

Ah, more excuses 

 

I love em,  give me more lol

 

Just pure data.... 

[Narcosys]

Just now, EastStreet said:

 

Just pure data.... 

Just pure excuses...

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

Just pure excuses...

Hate without empirical data is just blind hate.

Get your eyes checked.

Perhaps it's just your narcosis.  

[Narcosys]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

Hate without empirical data is just blind hate.

Get your eyes checked.

Perhaps it's just your narcosis.  

Lol, I already went through the data in the last Wentz excuse post. The only thing any of you point to is qbr and then try to make excuses for this and that.  

 

He's not that good,  period.  

[EastStreet]

5 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

Lol, I already went through the data in the last Wentz excuse post. The only thing any of you point to is qbr and then try to make excuses for this and that.  

 

He's not that good,  period.  

 

QBR is far from the only thing above.

all you got is subjective "he's not that good" lol....

 

[tikyle]

10 hours ago, NFLfan said:

I removed a few comments in which members were bickering. Let's quit doing that. The playoffs are coming and we want all of you to be part of the discussions/threads.

 

If it helps, put someone on "Ignore". Thank you.

 

Good night. Good luck in the game.

 

Not so sure about that......

[Narcosys]

19 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Hate without empirical data is just blind hate.

Get your eyes checked.

Perhaps it's just your narcosis.  

 

Comp%: 26th

Yards/comp: 15th

Yds/Att: 21st

Passer rating: 12th

Yds/gm: 18th

 

He's at least decent in keeping interceptions down. 

 

But he's still average at best.  Like I've said.  That's not subjective.  But people like you just come out and keep finding ways to make excuses as to why he's a top QB, and he just isn't. 

[Les Poulains]

24 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Just pure data.... 

It's not good data, though. 

[Narcosys]

10 hours ago, NFLfan said:

I removed a few comments in which members were bickering. Let's quit doing that. The playoffs are coming and we want all of you to be part of the discussions/threads.

 

If it helps, put someone on "Ignore". Thank you.

 

Good night. Good luck in the game.

 

Why are you censoring posts that don't break rules?

3 minutes ago, Les Poulains said:

It's not good data, though. 

No, only the data people cherry pick to make him look best is good data right?

[EastStreet]

15 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

 

Comp%: 26th

Yards/comp: 15th

Yds/Att: 21st

Passer rating: 12th

Yds/gm: 18th

 

He's at least decent in keeping interceptions down. 

 

But he's still average at best.  Like I've said.  That's not subjective.  But people like you just come out and keep finding ways to make excuses as to why he's a top QB, and he just isn't. 

 

poor OL, poor pass catchers... and almost identical QBR and PR to Mahomes who's got both top 5 OL and pass catchers.......

But hey, you be you.

[Narcosys]

16 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

poor OL, poor pass catchers... and almost identical QBR and PR to Mahomes who's got both top 5 OL and pass catchers.......

But hey, you be you.

Excuse,  excuse, and a ridiculous stat that somehow puts Carson Wentz in the same category as Patrick Mahommes, Tom Brady, and Aaron Rodgers.

 

KC doesn't have a receiver in the top 10 with catch %, one in to 10 with yards and receptions (Hill), and nobody in top 20 with yards/ catch. 

 

But hey, again,  cherry pick and see what you want in those tinted glasses.

 

Meanwhile I'll keep watching Wentz unable to throw to open receivers cause he overthrows. Like he just did again. 

[EastStreet]

Just now, Narcosys said:

Excuse,  excuse, and a ridiculous stat that somehow puts Carson Wentz in the same category as Patrick Mahommes, Tom Brady, and Aaron Rodgers.

 

KC doesn't have a receiver in the top 10 with catch %, one in to 10 with yards and receptions (Hill), and nobody in top 20 with yards/ catch. 

 

But hey, again,  cherry pick and see what you want in this tinted glasses.

 

Meanwhile I'll keep watching Wentz unable to throw to open receivers cause he overthrown. Like he just did again. 

QBR and PR a rediculous stat? lol... It's only the two stats most used to grade QBs and takes into account a wide variety of factors. 

 

Hill, Kelce, and Hardman are easily better than our top 3.... Kelce has 1000.... You're being intellectually dishonest. 

 

The ball hit Pittman in both hands, and he barely jumped. 

 

But hey, you be you.

[Les Poulains]

Just now, EastStreet said:

QBR and PR a rediculous stat? lol... It's only the two stats most used to grade QBs and takes into account a wide variety of factors. 

 

Hill, Kelce, and Hardman are easily better than our top 3.... Kelce has 1000.... You're being intellectually dishonest. 

 

The ball hit Pittman in both hands, and he barely jumped. 

 

But hey, you be you.

QBR is a horrendous stat.

[icf]

He is an average quarterback at best.
 

And in the last two weeks not even that

[Narcosys]

7 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

QBR and PR a rediculous stat? lol... It's only the two stats most used to grade QBs and takes into account a wide variety of factors. 

 

Hill, Kelce, and Hardman are easily better than our top 3.... Kelce has 1000.... You're being intellectually dishonest. 

 

The ball hit Pittman in both hands, and he barely jumped. 

 

But hey, you be you.

Oh so now they're not top 5, they're just better than us? Move the goal post much?

 

I won't argue they're better than us,  I was proving they weren't top 5, which was your point, until you changed it.  

 

QBR is ridiculous,  passer rating isn't and i never said it was. PR is closest to measuring how a qb actually rates against others.  QBR doesn't.  And Wentz PR puts him at 18th which is nowhere near top 10 qb or Mahomes , which is where you put him. 

 

Unless you want to move the goal posts again. 

 

Pittman was wide open and it was high and behind. He had to bend back to touch it.  Should he catch it, yes.   should he have to contort and leave the ground when he's wide open? No. 

 

Oh look,  another terrible throw as we speak. 

Keep them excuses coming. 

[EastStreet]

5 minutes ago, Les Poulains said:

QBR is a horrendous stat.

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, Narcosys said:

Oh so now they're not top 5, they're just better than us? Move the goal post much?

 

I won't argue they're better than us,  I was proving they weren't top 5, which was your point, until you changed it.  

 

QBR is ridiculous,  passer rating isn't and i never said it was. PR is closest to measuring how a qb actually rates against others.  QBR doesn't.  And Wentz PR puts him at 18th which is nowhere near top 10 qb or Mahomes , which is where you put him. 

 

Unless you want to move the goal posts again. 

 

Pittman was wide open and it was high and behind. He had to bend back to touch it.  Should he catch it, yes.   should he have to contort and leave the ground when he's wide open? No. 

 

Oh look,  another terrible throw as we speak. 

Keep them excuses coming. 

Their OL is top 5.... which is what the OP says.

They have 2 1000+ yard pass catchers.... How many teams have that?

[Les Poulains]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

I've already said it. Charlie Batch 12 for 17 184 yards 3 td's 2 picks = perfect QBR. Highest in a game ever. What a stat! Incredible! 

[Les Poulains]

Tony Romo: 5th highest total PR ever. Matt Schaub: 11th best PR ever. 

[EastStreet]

3 minutes ago, Les Poulains said:

Tony Romo: 5th highest total QBR ever. Matt Schaub: 11th best QBR ever. What a valid stat!

You'd probably prefer a 5000 yard passer like 2019....

 

Jameis Winston... 

[Les Poulains]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

You'd probably prefer a 5000 yard passer like 2019....

 

Jameis Winston... 

No, I'd simply prefer an obversably competent QB.

[Narcosys]

Just now, EastStreet said:

Their OL is top 5.... which is what the OP says.

They have 2 1000+ yard pass catchers.... How many teams have that?

Idc what he said,  it's what you said,  top 5 Oline and Pass Catchers. 

 

They have one WR and a TE above 1k. The rest below 700 and an RB in the top 5 accounting for nearly 500 of their yards.  

 

Oh look,  another over throw. 

 

The Colts are second in rushing.  You know how many top 10 passing offenses are also in top 10 rushing?  One,  the cowboys.  

 

So don't try to compare our total receiving stats to others to justify your point when the Colts aren't a passing team. 

12 minutes ago, Les Poulains said:

Tony Romo: 5th highest total QBR ever. Matt Schaub: 11th best QBR ever. What a valid stat!

I would argue Romo was a good QB. 

[GoColts8818]

1 hour ago, tikyle said:

 

Not so sure about that......

They are coming just not for the Colts.

[Les Poulains]

1 minute ago, Narcosys said:

 

I would argue Romo was a good QB. 

Yeah, he was good. Not 5th best, tho, was he.

[EastStreet]

4 minutes ago, Les Poulains said:

No, I'd simply prefer an obversably competent QB.

 

So you don't like QBR which accounts for a ton of factors

You don't like a ton of yards.

You don't accept context of a bad OL (gave up a season high 5th sack just a minute ago, and still plenty of time)

You don't accept context of mediocre pass catchers.

 

Radio guys have commented multiple times on the last two today. 

 

[Narcosys]

1 minute ago, Les Poulains said:

Yeah, he was good. Not 5th best, tho, was he.

No