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Wright or Fleener?


Dtman513
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Here is a non-mainstream media (blogger) view of Arian's offense while with the Steelers:

http://www.coltsauth...uce-arians.html

This, of course, is not perhaps any more relevant than your opinion or mine, and the Steelers TE stats in his tenure weren't exaclty stellar. But last year Miller had over 50 catches in over 70 targets, and Johnson and Saunders added 13 additional catches for the TE position, so they used three, two primarily, with only one being a real receiving threat.

http://espn.go.com/n...sburgh-steelers

But that gets directly to my concern. I am fine with Eldridge as the block first, handful of catches, do the dirty work guy. But he, I don't think, is capable of having a 50+ catch season. I think the Colts need to find that kind of player in this draft, or some other way, before the season starts.

I understand. I will be honest and didn't think TE was going to be that big of a focus in the offense. Remember however last year Pittsburgh threw a lot more then ever before....a lot to do with their horrible offensive line, poor/injured backs, and the fact Ben is their best player and they have two great wideouts in Brown and Wallace. I just think that the TEs were targeted more because they HAD to throw more. Those throws weren't exactly defense stretching throws either. Also Arians also will motion his TE into the back field a lot to block. Hey may be emphasizing TE more with several...but Fleener didn't fit any of them. TEs that we could get later in the draft actually would fit what Arians did more of.

I will say Fleener is the best TE prospect..and we need 2 more on our roster but I feel at 34 we can get a player that would help this team more in the long run at another position. Whether a OG, DT, LB, or CB.

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If that is the case then I change my view. I will be honest that I never knew Pittsburg ran so many sets with multiple TEs. I still think Fleener has much much to improve in the blocking game and not very happy with that part of his game but if two TE sets is to be an actual part of this offense then I honestly didn't expact that. The thing is as of right now I just don't think Fleener can be an every down player with his inability to be affective in the run game. He was a poor blocker in college and these guys are just bigger and stronger. I will be honest an say I was unaware how Arians had used his TEs. I've seen a lot of Heath Miller blocking and catching short passes. I felt Eldridge and a middle round TE would be fine for that. Last year seemed to be a change in Pittsburgh's philosophy as they did pass more. Is that because they didn't have a very good line and running attack and so they let Big Ben their biggest weapon throw or because of a real change in philosophy. Guess we will find out. I still feel more comfortable taking Fleener later...perhaps trading down 5 or 6 spots and getting or swapping a pick later but if that is how Arians wants to run the offense I guess I can be supportive. That said...Fleener does not fit any of Pittsburghs previous TEs who often will even motion back and play fullback. Fleener can not do that.

I too think that a trade down from 34, regardless of who is available, may well turn out to be better for the Colts in the long run. The TE list in this draft is not great. If Eldridge can be the head-knocker, block first guy, I think the Colts could find a receiver from the back end group of TEs - the Hanna/Egnew types have the size/speed combo that could translate well to that seam pass/match up issue, and cost far less than Fleener at 34.

To me, the best, and worst part of 2-14 and so many needs is I think there are tons of ways to go, and frankly, I'm not sure any are wrong. On the surface I would prefer Fleener, because the Colts don't have a TE (sorry Eldridge fans, if you exist), and that is something Arian uses regulary (don't all NFL teams now?). But if the Colts went CB, DT, OL, traded down at 34, I wouldn't throw stuff at the TV. I mean, unless they pick another QB at 34, can they really blow it? I don't think so. There are solid, great reasons to pick almost any position at 34.

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I understand. I will be honest and didn't think TE was going to be that big of a focus in the offense. Remember however last year Pittsburgh threw a lot more then ever before....a lot to do with their horrible offensive line, poor/injured backs, and the fact Ben is their best player and they have two great wideouts in Brown and Wallace. I just think that the TEs were targeted more because they HAD to throw more. Those throws weren't exactly defense stretching throws either. Also Arians also will motion his TE into the back field a lot to block. Hey may be emphasizing TE more with several...but Fleener didn't fit any of them. TEs that we could get later in the draft actually would fit what Arians did more of.

I will say Fleener is the best TE prospect..and we need 2 more on our roster but I feel at 34 we can get a player that would help this team more in the long run at another position. Whether a OG, DT, LB, or CB.

And this is why, to many, Arians was not brought back with the Steelers. His depature from "Steeler roots", lack of FB, lack of run first, etc. The Colts have an interesting situation betwween what Pagano has said he wants to be, and the offense Arians runs. Those two things are absolutely not the same, so it will be interesting to see what emerges. You'd think the HC would win that argument, but he won't be making the play calls, so...

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And this is why, to many, Arians was not brought back with the Steelers. His depature from "Steeler roots", lack of FB, lack of run first, etc. The Colts have an interesting situation betwween what Pagano has said he wants to be, and the offense Arians runs. Those two things are absolutely not the same, so it will be interesting to see what emerges. You'd think the HC would win that argument, but he won't be making the play calls, so...

Yeah. I think there is definately some some unanswered questions about this staff. Things they have been known to do they don't have the players for and almost everyone is in a position they have never filled. I think Griggs is the GM. He picked Pagano because he wanted a defensive minded coach. Whether that means we invest most our money on that side of the ball (perhaps or maybe coach up the less talented players). We really don't know. Pagano is the coach and his idea of what he wants to do comes down to him. Arians works for him. Pagano works for Grigs. To be honest I think Arians will be allowed to run the offense as he sees fit. He has to run it with what we have. If we don't have the TEs to run that offense he is an excellent coordinator and will make adjustments. Same as what has been said about using Freeney. He isn't an OLB. So adjust the defense to best utilize him. Truthfully. I see us being a team focused on running the ball, emphasizing play action and short timing routes because that is what our teams talent currently lies. The offensive line is primarily run blockers first and foremost. None of them are exactly talented in pass protection. I think we have adequate WRs that run good routes but not speedsters like Pittsburgh had. We don't have the TEs that they had. Despite Luck who hopefully will be a good qb we don't have Ben Rothlisburger. Luck is a rookie lets not forget that. I see Arians as an excellent coach that molds young talent. Perhaps in a few years our offense will morph into a passing offense but I just don't see it yet. I wouldn't be surprised to see us take another RB in the middle rounds to help us in that area to be honest.

We just don't have the same talent that Pittsburgh had to run that offense. We don't have the same talent Baltimore had to run that defense. Will we build towards that..sure but right now we have good coaches that will form a team around what we can do well...to me that is run the ball and run a lot of 4-3 defense since that is what this team mostly comprises of.

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I just don't think that a TE that is weak in the blocking game is what we need right now. If this was a few years ago and we had a luxury pick to make the offense more potent and we needed to replace Clark I would be all for it. I just feel that we should be looking to build this team on protection and running the ball on offense. We can still have that sure handed TE target but one that helps more in other areas of the game. We look for WRs to be our playmakers in the passing game. I think the NE thing is just not something you can easily copy. If anything Fleener more closely resembles Hernandez and not Gronkowski. It just think Fleener is highly overvalued. Watching his tapes I think he is a late 2nd to early 3rd round prospect and don't understand why everyone is so high on the kid. I know we have only 1TE under contract but I don't necessarily think you have to over reach for one. There will be solid prospects in rounds 3 and 4 and depth in rounds 6 and 7.

Well, that's the thing. Before Fleener's combine performance, he was *nowhere near* being rated as a first rounder. I mean, the combine performance was nice, but what really matters is how you perform on the field, and nothing Fleener did at Stanford justified a first round pick.

In other words, Fleener's a bit of a workout warrior.... he doesn't play as fast or strong as he tests out. That should be a bit of a red-flag. And consider this: neither Dwayne Allen or Orson Charles had an elite collegiate QB throwing to them. Fleener did... yet based on his body of work, he couldn't beat either of them out for the top TE grade. That should really worry you.

In any regard, I agree with Dgambill... go watch his tape, he's not that good.

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Grigs, the scouting staff and the coaching staff are taking into account that the Colts will suck next year and will not do that much better the following year. This team needs more work than most any team I have ever seen. Most of our players are less than average. Next year I see us drafting in the top 5 and the following year somewhere in the top 10 or 15. I don't mind this because it will help us build a nice competitive team. I would use a top five pick on a skill position like a dominating WR say on the Marvin Harrison level. (The second round pick on another skill position such as the RB). The following year, I would go with a defensive player at a skill position (NT/CB) that would be a difference maker. With this said, this year I would grab Fleener and teach him how to block better and bulk him up. His arms are already cannons. A lower round blocking TE can be rotated in on running downs. Fleener is a difference maker at a skill position. If we have have an awesome QB in Luck, we need to give him the tools he needs to make teams play from behind. Wright is a short slot receiver that we can find lower in the draft. Austin Collie and Brandon Stokley were each 4th round picks.

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Grigs, the scouting staff and the coaching staff are taking into account that the Colts will suck next year and will not do that much better the following year. This team needs more work than most any team I have ever seen. Most of our players are less than average. Next year I see us drafting in the top 5 and the following year somewhere in the top 10 or 15. I don't mind this because it will help us build a nice competitive team. I would use a top five pick on a skill position like a dominating WR say on the Marvin Harrison level. (The second round pick on another skill position such as the RB). The following year, I would go with a defensive player at a skill position (NT/CB) that would be a difference maker. With this said, this year I would grab Fleener and teach him how to block better and bulk him up. His arms are already cannons. A lower round blocking TE can be rotated in on running downs. Fleener is a difference maker at a skill position. If we have have an awesome QB in Luck, we need to give him the tools he needs to make teams play from behind. Wright is a short slot receiver that we can find lower in the draft. Austin Collie and Brandon Stokley were each 4th round picks.

But, why would you do that? You could wait until the 3rd or 4th round and pick up Allen or Charles, who are comparable (or even better) talents.

It's actually eerily similar to what happened in 2003 with Dallas Clark. Dallas was a nice pick, except everyone outside the Colts felt he was picked too soon. Well, guess who was picked in the 3rd round? Jason Witten, who has had an inarguably better career. Take into account that Nnamde Asogmoh was taken about 15 picks after Clark, we could've had both Asogmoh AND Witten.

Hmmm... Possibly having Nnamde + Witten versus Clark? I'll take the former every time. You might have even been able to pick up Nnamde + Clark with your 2nd pick. But you close up possibilities like that when you pick players too early... which is exactly why Fleener isn't worth it at #34. Third round? Yeah, I'll take him... But not that early.

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Given the choice I would definitely rather have Kendall Wright. Luck needs a deep threat weapon and this kid brings that in spades.

Fleener is fine but I think that the fact that Luck is familiar with him is what most people are caught up on. But I think Luck could probably make a later round TE look just as good as he did Fleener. Just my opinion.

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But, why would you do that? You could wait until the 3rd or 4th round and pick up Allen or Charles, who are comparable (or even better) talents.

It's actually eerily similar to what happened in 2003 with Dallas Clark. Dallas was a nice pick, except everyone outside the Colts felt he was picked too soon. Well, guess who was picked in the 3rd round? Jason Witten, who has had an inarguably better career. Take into account that Nnamde Asogmoh was taken about 15 picks after Clark, we could've had both Asogmoh AND Witten.

Hmmm... Possibly having Nnamde + Witten versus Clark? I'll take the former every time. You might have even been able to pick up Nnamde + Clark with your 2nd pick. But you close up possibilities like that when you pick players too early... which is exactly why Fleener isn't worth it at #34. Third round? Yeah, I'll take him... But not that early.

This is a choice between Fleener and Wright. Grabbing a short slot receiver with a #2 pick, that history has shown that can be grabbed much later on in the draft such as a #4 pick, especially this year, would not make as much sense as grabbing the best TE.

"Fifth-year senior earned Sporting News All-America honors after hauling in 34 passes for 667 yards and a team-high 10 touchdowns...became the first Stanford tight end to earn All-America status since Chris Burford in 1959...also garnered first team All-Pac-12 honors...second team Yahoo! Sports All-America selection...averaged 19.6 yards per catch as a senior"

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This is a choice between Fleener and Wright. Grabbing a short slot receiver with a #2 pick, that history has shown that can be grabbed much later on in the draft such as a #4 pick, especially this year, would not make as much sense as grabbing the best TE.

"Fifth-year senior earned Sporting News All-America honors after hauling in 34 passes for 667 yards and a team-high 10 touchdowns...became the first Stanford tight end to earn All-America status since Chris Burford in 1959...also garnered first team All-Pac-12 honors...second team Yahoo! Sports All-America selection...averaged 19.6 yards per catch as a senior"

Ah, I see. Personally, I would grab neither and go BPA.

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