Looking ahead to the Pats (merge)

[EastStreet]

11 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Buffalo should have had more called running plays for Allen in the RZ.  Use Moss as a lead blocker as an extra man.  Griese was pointing that out all night.  Not that I've noticed anything insightful from him as a pattern, but he was right about that last night, IMO.

Yup. I was surprised we didn't see a lot more running from him. IIRC, he only had like 5 or 6. 

I thought he'd have at least 10-15 with the weather. And IMO, it should have been part of the normal game plan, not just in the RZ.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

32 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

You do have a flair for the dramatic, respect for an opponent's strengths is not the same as being intimidated. You have to kill with kindness, like Peyton and Brady did, gushing about each other before every duel. Why can't fans do the same?  

 

After all, like Reggie Wayne said, "the other guy is on scholarship too".

I can respect what they have done but I am not scared of them.

[chad72]

Just now, Wentzszn said:

I can respect what they have done but I am not scared of them.

 

Neither am I. It is not like Mac Jones will make us pay for every mistake like Brady can, there will be a little more margin for error with Mac Jones than with Belichick's coached D, IMO. That is a key difference, IMO.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Hence,   rarely 

Does seem like they are putting them in the field together a little more. A couple of Hines catches came with Taylor on the field Sunday.   Hope we see it more.

[chad72]

3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Yup. I was surprised we didn't see a lot more running from him. IIRC, he only had like 5 or 6. 

I thought he'd have at least 10-15 with the weather. And IMO, it should have been part of the normal game plan, not just in the RZ.

 

That was the biggest concern for the Patriots, and I think in big games, Daboll and McDermott underwhelm for some reason, forgetting to use Allen's legs as a weapon. Bills are front runners though, if they get to a lead vs the Bucs like the Colts did, it is harder to come back from, they won't give the same gifts to the Bucs we did.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, chad72 said:

 

Neither am I. It is not like Mac Jones will make us pay for every mistake like Brady can, there will be a little more margin for error with Mac Jones than with Belichick's coached D, IMO. That is a key difference, IMO.

At some point if they  want to be great they have to play like they  great.  There is such a difference in a teams attitude when they go out there and play like they belong.

[compuls1v3]

29 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Unlike the Texans, their offense can score.

I never said they couldn’t score.

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, chad72 said:

That was the biggest concern for the Patriots, and I think in big games, Daboll and McDermott underwhelm for some reason, forgetting to use Allen's legs as a weapon. Bills are front runners though, if they get to a lead vs the Bucs like the Colts did, it is harder to come back from, they won't give the same gifts to the Bucs we did.

 

Overall, Buffalo is always going to struggle vs teams with good pass Ds, or environments like wind. 

TB has a good pass D. So long as they get their best CB back from concussion protocol, I'll take the Bucs all day.

And doubt they get up big on TB. I see either a shootout, or a Bucs blowout win.

[chad72]

6 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Overall, Buffalo is always going to struggle vs teams with good pass Ds, or environments like wind. 

TB has a good pass D. So long as they get their best CB back from concussion protocol, I'll take the Bucs all day.

And doubt they get up big on TB. I see either a shootout, or a Bucs blowout win.

 

Bills OL is a better pass blocking OL than run blocking OL, there in lies the difference, IMO. TB's secondary is not nearly the secondary the NE has with enough horses and if Bowles decides to blitz, Allen will eat up 1-on-1s vs Diggs and Sanders, and if Davis, Knox, Beasley are all healthy, the Bucs will have their hands full. It is not like they can just double Diggs and let their secondary be able to handle the others, like they did with Tyreek Hill, Pittman etc., if their pass rush does not get there, their secondary is in trouble and Bowles will start blitzing with a ripple effect.  Note their other safety Mike Edwards is also suspended along with Antonio Brown, he was playing opposite Antoine Winfield Jr., Falcons did not have the pass catchers to test them and still moved the ball on them, couldn't stop Brady, that was their issue.

 

The key is if the Bills can hold Brady to 24-27 points, that will determine if they can come out winners.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Yes I know.  The Colts rarely run like that because there isn't even a fullback on the roster.  They use Doyle in those infrequent sets.

 

But NE and BALT "pound the rock" by using a fullback a lot.  That's why they have one on the roster.  They plan to pound it, when they have to,     

 

For people who want us to run a lot, pound it like NE did, we don't even have the roster to do it.  I wouldn't ever expect to see it from us as a consistent theme of a game plan.  Don't blame Frank.  Blame Ballard.

First….  If Frank wanted a pure fullback, Ballard would get him one.   They think alike and Ballard often defers to what Frank wants. 
 

Second, I don’t know why you think the Colts are somehow suffering from a lack of a pure fullback?    Whether it’s Doyle or MAC or Granson, we’re able to run what we want to run.    We run up the gut.    We run between the tackles.   We run outside.    
 

How have we been hurt by a lack of a fullback? 

[EastStreet]

6 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Bills OL is a better pass blocking OL than run blocking OL, there in lies the difference, IMO. TB's secondary is not nearly the secondary the NE has with enough horses and if Bowles decides to blitz, Allen will eat up 1-on-1s vs Diggs and Sanders, and if Davis, Knox, Beasley are all healthy, the Bucs will have their hands full. It is not like they can just double Diggs and let their secondary be able to handle the others, like they did with Tyreek Hill, Pittman etc., if their pass rush does not get there, their secondary is in trouble and Bowles will start blitzing with a ripple effect.  Note their other safety Mike Edwards is also suspended along with Antonio Brown, he was playing opposite Antoine Winfield Jr., Falcons did not have the pass catchers to test them and still scored well enough on them.

 

The key is if the Bills can hold Brady to 24-27 points, that will determine if they can come out winners.

TB is easily a top 10 secondary. 

As long as Dean is back, they'll be fine.

Winfield is arguably the best all around S in the league. Whitehead has been good too. Edwards is a loss, but W+W is very good.

As long as Dean is back at CB, they'll be fine. He's playing top 5 level. But even if not, between Davis, Cockrell, Desir, and now Bunting back, they're as deep as deep can be. 

 

Bucs by 10 or more... 

[twfish]

If buffalo’s game against the pats tells us anything it’s we are going to be in a battle with their defense and the refs. Buffalo got robbed pretty on some pretty blatant calls

[CR91]

37 minutes ago, compuls1v3 said:

I never said they couldn’t score.

 

Your missing my point. Texans stalled our offense at times and their offense never made us pay for it. Patriots will not be the same case.

[Colts1324]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

Overall, Buffalo is always going to struggle vs teams with good pass Ds, or environments like wind. 

TB has a good pass D. So long as they get their best CB back from concussion protocol, I'll take the Bucs all day.

And doubt they get up big on TB. I see either a shootout, or a Bucs blowout win.

For this year, yes. However, I doubt Buffalo goes into next season without a much better RB situation. 

[Colts1324]

1 hour ago, twfish said:

If buffalo’s game against the pats tells us anything it’s we are going to be in a battle with their defense and the refs. Buffalo got robbed pretty on some pretty blatant calls

The refs 100%. Luckily we are at home. 
 

We can run & throw the ball - NE has only faced two strong offensive teams (Bucs & Cowboys) this year & lost to both (granted they were close games). 

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, Colts1324 said:

For this year, yes. However, I doubt Buffalo goes into next season without a much better RB situation. 

Singletary is a decent RB. They just don't use him a lot. They're just a pass first team in general. I really don't see them changing their identity all that much. 

[coltsva]

On 12/6/2021 at 12:01 AM, IinD said:

I think it's safe to say (for me at least) I hope we kill them because I'll always hate them as long as I'm alive. 

Hate is a very harsh word. But since I can't come up with anything harsher, let's stick with it!

[DougDew]

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

First….  If Frank wanted a pure fullback, Ballard would get him one.   They think alike and Ballard often defers to what Frank wants. 
 

Second, I don’t know why you think the Colts are somehow suffering from a lack of a pure fullback?    Whether it’s Doyle or MAC or Granson, we’re able to run what we want to run.    We run up the gut.    We run between the tackles.   We run outside.    
 

How have we been hurt by a lack of a fullback? 

Just saying, the teams that want to power run through a stacked box as a game plan have a Fullback on the roster.

 

There is a bunch of comments talking about JTs ability to run through a stacked box......sort of saying that Frank is a doofuss for not doing it more.......but that success in the stacked box was achieved by the same pass heavy play calling that also gets criticized.  So the comment makes no sense to make.

 

 JT can run through a stacked box when we pass a lot....or play HOU.  If we tried to run at BUFF the way NE did, and the way BALT runs every game, we would not have the success they do because we do not have the roster for that kind of a game plan.  Frank does not want that game plan, and Ballard is okay with that.

[Smonroe]

You know how they always say that BB will take away your biggest weapon(s) and make you play "left handed"?  In our case, that's 28 and 11.

 

Well, I was thinking about NE's biggest weapons, and how we'd take them away.  - They don't really have one.  Or should I say, they go with the flow and it may be different every game?

 

Their QB is a solid rookie, who isn't going to win a game by himself.  He's good at operating in that system.

Their RBs are a true committee, and that committee may be a little short if Harris is still hurting.

Their WR/TE's are solid, but you can't point to a true star.  Meyers and Bourne are good, as well as Henry, but is there a guy that will keep the DC up at night working out a gameplan to account for him?

 

Their strength is in their O-Line, coaching, and play calling.  A lot of times, that's all you need.

 

Just some random thoughts...

[2006Coltsbestever]

I like our chances in this game, probably more than some. BB is arguably the GOAT and they have a great defense. They are going to have score points to beat us though. I seriously doubt they can stop Taylor for 4 QTRs. Carson Wentz is underrated. Mac Jones is a rookie so sorry Pats fans we have the better QB, we didn't when we played Tampa. To beat us they are going need to score at least 24 points IMO. I see us winning something like 24-20. I also have a feeling Mac has at least 1 INT. We lead the league in take aways.

[Coltsfan1953]

I don't know a lot about schemes and such but I would like to see the defense play everything kind of tight and make the QB try to beat us deep, tackling is the key. On offense, we may have to play like the TB game and try to pass a little more to loosen up the run game but what do I know.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, Smonroe said:

Well, I was thinking about NE's biggest weapons, and how we'd take them away.  - They don't really have one.  Or should I say, they go with the flow and it may be different every game?

They have always done this, IMO.  BB runs when he has to, and passes when he has to.  Randy Moss set a TD record for a season at one point?

 

He builds his roster with that in mind.  He has large, pretty fast, football players capable of playing any way.

 

We have a roster of specialists.  Granson and Hines are specialists.  We drafted rotational, situational pass rush specialists (that haven't worked out).  In a 53 man roster, we have a few more specialists, one reason why we are not as versatile as NE.

 

Just a wild observation.

[CoachLite]

Never underestimate your opponent. Never overestimate them, either. We are playing against Belichick as much as we are playing the Patriots players. Belichick has to compete with the players he has (so do we), but there are ways to overcome Belichicks slight strategic advantage.

 

To be the best, you must beat the best. We must overcome our weakest link - inadequate tactical implementation of our strategies.

[Smonroe]

21 minutes ago, Coltsfan1953 said:

I don't know a lot about schemes and such but I would like to see the defense play everything kind of tight and make the QB try to beat us deep, tackling is the key. On offense, we may have to play like the TB game and try to pass a little more to loosen up the run game but what do I know.

 

I expect us to play S in the box most of the game.  But I hope that Flus doesn't let Mac get comfortable.  I am so tired of seeing us sit back in the cover two and letting the shallow crosser pick up the easy first down.

 

The D played great agains Houston, but NE is a different animal.

 

IMHO our O is better than their but their D is better than ours.  I'll also take our STs.  

 

 

[Smonroe]

16 minutes ago, DougDew said:

They have always done this, IMO.  BB runs when he has to, and passes when he has to.  Randy Moss set a TD record for a season at one point?

 

He builds his roster with that in mind.  He has large, pretty fast, football players capable of playing any way.

 

We have a roster of specialists.  Granson and Hines are specialists.  We drafted rotational, situational pass rush specialists (that haven't worked out).  In a 53 man roster, we have a few more specialists, one reason why we are not as versatile as NE.

 

Just a wild observation.

 

I get what you're saying,  not sure I agree though.  Every team has guys that are better at certain things.  I'm not sure NE is more versatile, but if you're saying they can switch out RBs without missing much, that's true.  They don't have a JT though, there aren't may guys that you can switch out with him and get the same production.

 

Yes, we've drafted several pure pass rushers.  Books still out on them.  But isn't that the way of the NFL?  You need your team to protect your QB and put pressure on theirs.  

 

On D, I do think they're better coached and always have been.  We had L. Guy on our team.  He was solid, but he's better now with them.

 

If you compare teams, position by position, man by man, I think we'd have the edge on O and they'd have it on D.  

 

Again, just MHO.

 

[richard pallo]

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

They have always done this, IMO.  BB runs when he has to, and passes when he has to.  Randy Moss set a TD record for a season at one point?

 

He builds his roster with that in mind.  He has large, pretty fast, football players capable of playing any way.

 

We have a roster of specialists.  Granson and Hines are specialists.  We drafted rotational, situational pass rush specialists (that haven't worked out).  In a 53 man roster, we have a few more specialists, one reason why we are not as versatile as NE.

 

Just a wild observation.

I wouldn’t call Granson and Hines specialists.  Granson is a rookie still learning on how to play in the NFL.  His snaps are starting to go up.  Hines just doesn’t come in to catch passes.  He runs up the middle, he runs wide , you never know how he will used.  We drafted Paye and Dayo to be starters. The jury might still be out but so far so good.  They are getting there.  So I don’t buy we have a roster of just specialists.  We have a lot of young players still developing.  Just like a lot of teams have.  We have some holes to fill but we are just as versatile as NE.

[Fluke_33]

12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Ballard often defers to what Frank wants. 

I haven’t heard or read this.  I know frank plead for paris cambell and for wentz.  Are there other instances?

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, Fluke_33 said:

I haven’t heard or read this.  I know frank plead for paris cambell and for wentz.  Are there other instances?

Michael Pittman is another one. Reich thought he could of been the best WR in the 2020 draft. So far, he might be 2nd to Justin Jefferson.

[shasta519]

38 minutes ago, CoachLite said:

Never underestimate your opponent. Never overestimate them, either. We are playing against Belichick as much as we are playing the Patriots players. Belichick has to compete with the players he has (so do we), but there are ways to overcome Belichicks slight strategic advantage.

 

To be the best, you must beat the best. We must overcome our weakest link - inadequate tactical implementation of our strategies.

 

Slight strategic advantage? On defense, it's a canyon.

[Superman]

12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

How have we been hurt by a lack of a fullback? 

 

We haven't, clearly.

[Superman]

13 hours ago, chad72 said:

Neither am I. It is not like Mac Jones will make us pay for every mistake like Brady can, there will be a little more margin for error with Mac Jones than with Belichick's coached D, IMO. That is a key difference, IMO.

 

McDaniels knows exactly how to attack this defense. I expect the Pats to move the ball and score plenty. The offense needs to be sharp and efficient, avoid turnovers, and score TDs. We can't have four or five scoreless possessions in a row, like we did the last two weeks.

[SteelCityColt]

Just now, Superman said:

 

We haven't, clearly.

 

I'm having flashbacks to Stanley Havili and the days of Pep....

[SteelCityColt]

Just now, Superman said:

 

McDaniels knows exactly how to attack this defense. I expect the Pats to move the ball and score plenty. The offense needs to be sharp and efficient, avoid turnovers, and score TDs. We can't have four or five scoreless possessions in a row, like we did the last two weeks.

 

If we can at least be stout against the run, make Jones pass and  get some pressure on him that would be a start.

 

Buy I agree, I can see McDaniels scheming guys open for gimmes all day.

[Superman]

1 minute ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

If we can at least be stout against the run, make Jones pass and  get some pressure on him that would be a start.

 

Buy I agree, I can see McDaniels scheming guys open for gimmes all day.

 

Mac Jones has been really good on third down. I have a lot of respect for his ability. He was ready to play when he was drafted, and he went to the perfect organization to develop a QB with his traits. 

 

And honestly, if I were game planning against our defense, I'd throw it early and often. I don't think our defense can stop the pass if it's schemed properly, with an above average QB. I'd force Eberflus to adjust the coverages and pressure schemes to take away short/intermediate throws, and if he didn't adjust, I'd just try to pick them apart with the pass game. I think our run defense is much better than our pass defense, but I think we can be run on by the right team also.

[shasta519]

42 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I wouldn’t call Granson and Hines specialists.  Granson is a rookie still learning on how to play in the NFL.  His snaps are starting to go up.  Hines just doesn’t come in to catch passes.  He runs up the middle, he runs wide , you never know how he will used.  We drafted Paye and Dayo to be starters. The jury might still be out but so far so good.  They are getting there.  So I don’t buy we have a roster of just specialists.  We have a lot of young players still developing.  Just like a lot of teams have.  We have some holes to fill but we are just as versatile as NE.

 

I think Hines and Granson are still specialists. One is a pass-catching RB (who might get a carry or two)...and Granson is an H-back who will play a role similar to Trey Burton (provided he develops). But I also think that is intentional for the offense Reich wants to run.

[SteelCityColt]

10 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Mac Jones has been really good on third down. I have a lot of respect for his ability. He was ready to play when he was drafted, and he went to the perfect organization to develop a QB with his traits. 

 

And honestly, if I were game planning against our defense, I'd throw it early and often. I don't think our defense can stop the pass if it's schemed properly, with an above average QB. I'd force Eberflus to adjust the coverages and pressure schemes to take away short/intermediate throws, and if he didn't adjust, I'd just try to pick them apart with the pass game. I think our run defense is much better than our pass defense, but I think we can be run on by the right team also.

 

Have we ever taken the short/intermediate stuff?!

 

Good points, and worryingly I think you're right about Jones. Quite interesting for the amount of time people argued about Bill Vs Tom being the factor in NE, it might prove to be both are just that good..

[chad72]

36 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

McDaniels knows exactly how to attack this defense. I expect the Pats to move the ball and score plenty. The offense needs to be sharp and efficient, avoid turnovers, and score TDs. We can't have four or five scoreless possessions in a row, like we did the last two weeks.

 

If we have to take the points and score FGs, so be it, this is the game where Frank cannot risk going for 4th downs in the red zone, IMO. The only exception might be a 4th and 1 we can do with a QB sneak. Otherwise, take the points, play field position and hope Mac Jones doesn't execute everything McDaniels wants at a high level thus giving us some margin for error to pull out a W eventually. Both Brady and Belichick, they force you to go the entire 60 minutes to earn the W.

 

Mac Jones, his average depth of target (aDOT) is 7.5 yards.

 

https://www.ftnfantasy.com/nfl/players/309028/Mac-Jones

 

If we can limit YAC and choke the underneath and force his aDOT past 15 yards, that could help reduce a high level of the execution.

[shasta519]

5 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Have we ever taken the short/intermediate stuff?!

 

Good points, and worryingly I think you're right about Jones. Quite interesting for the amount of time people argued about Bill Vs Tom being the factor in NE, it might prove to be both are just that good..

 

I think it's becoming increasingly clearer that both are just that good. Which is why when combined, they created a dynasty.  

[LJpalmbeacher2]

1 hour ago, Coltsfan1953 said:

I don't know a lot about schemes and such but I would like to see the defense play everything kind of tight and make the QB try to beat us deep, tackling is the key. On offense, we may have to play like the TB game and try to pass a little more to loosen up the run game but what do I know.

 

Teams Defenses don't usually play that way against brady & now mac Jones even though that's the best way to play against then and any other vertically challenged passing team......go figure  Lol

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

If we have to take the points and score FGs, so be it, this is the game where Frank cannot risk going for 4th downs in the red zone, IMO. The only exception might be a 4th and 1 we can do with a QB sneak. Otherwise, take the points, play field position and hope Mac Jones doesn't execute everything McDaniels wants at a high level thus giving us some margin for error to pull out a W eventually. Both Brady and Belichick, they force you to go the entire 60 minutes to earn the W.

 

I'm more talking about not stalling out with sacks and penalties, but yeah, kick FGs on 4th down.

 

However, aside from game specific situations, going for it on 4th and short inside the 10 yard line is basically always the right call. Statistically, when a team starts their drive inside their own 10 yard line, the other team is most likely to score next. So I don't mind going for it in those situations. First, I think there's a high likelihood of converting, and second, the downside is minimal. Unless the score or clock dictates taking the points, of course...