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Paye top rated rookie edge per PFF


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8 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

paye should of had two sacks last game he destroys the 49ers tackle gets to jimmy g then misses the tackle some how . this happened twice , payes rush got the strip sack assist for AQM

Watch the way they are tackling. Instead of tackling they are swiping the arms trying to get a fumble.

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5 minutes ago, #12. said:

PFF loved him in preseason and that's probably bled into their regular season grades some.  They have him a little higher than he should be.  

 

They loved Eason too yet here we are.

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19 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

Watch the way they are tackling. Instead of tackling they are swiping the arms trying to get a fumble.

still he could have 5 sacks if he tackled right he got 5 assists on the year most of them he was the first to get to the QB and just misses the tackle or takes a bad angle .   he is getting some nice pressures probably best on the team so far just can't close them .

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Paye has played really well vs the run, and he's active vs the pass. 

But zero sacks, zero QB hits, and only 1 pressure.

 

And while he's looked good vs the run, only has 13 tackles in 5 games. AQM has 25 in 7 games.

 

He needs patience, will get better, will be good, but his good grades are an example of grades that don't mirror production. He's doing a lot of the little thing well. I'd bet things will start to click, and his stats will take a turn as we play the 3 games after TN.

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9 hours ago, #12. said:

PFF loved him in preseason and that's probably bled into their regular season grades some.  They have him a little higher than he should be.  

I’m not huge on PFF…. But that’s not how they work, they don’t give higher grades to people they like…. I’d that was the case then Paye certainly wouldn’t be up there…

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2 hours ago, twfish said:

I’m not huge on PFF…. But that’s not how they work, they don’t give higher grades to people they like…. I’d that was the case then Paye certainly wouldn’t be up there…

I agree in general. As you know I like PFF as one of many indicators. I do call them out from time to time when stats or production doesn't match grades. In KP's situation specifically, if you watch him closely, he's getting close in pass rushing, very close, just not closing the deal. Very frustrating at times..... He's been pretty good holding the edge too. 

 

But..... it does feel a lot like his college production if you've watched his film. Just always a tad late. Looked great, but didn't get home much. He's got great traits and a violent demeanor which I love. I just want it to equate to something. It's early for him, so way, way too early to judge.

 

My prediction.... he has very meh stats in year one. In year two, which will be helped by some scheme changes, he'll have a crazy good year. That's long on the scheme changes though. He's untapped potential though, waiting to be unleashed. And he's a great, great kid. I also predict he'll look very good the 3 games after TN.

 

As far as PFF is concerned, I think there are likely homers involved in grading. Human nature is natural for some who want to see their predictions come true. I'd like to think they rotate their graders a bit to ensure fairness. From what I've read, they do try to create balance, but I'm also not surprised if homer-ism happens from time to time. 

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16 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

Watch the way they are tackling. Instead of tackling they are swiping the arms trying to get a fumble.

This is exactly the thing people don't realize about this team. We will never have the highest sack totals because that isn't what we are going for. This defense is built on creating turnovers, which is why you see our rushers always going for the swipe instead of the full hit. It's a mixed bag in terms of efficiency, but it is part of the reason why we are tied for the league lead in total takeaways and tops in forced fumbles.

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7 hours ago, twfish said:

I’m not huge on PFF…. But that’s not how they work, they don’t give higher grades to people they like…. I’d that was the case then Paye certainly wouldn’t be up there…

 

They loved Paye in the preseason though. Gave him a 94.2 grade, which I think was a record for a DL player or something like that.

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8 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

Highest graded and best are not synonymous. Pretty arrogant of PFF to describe their grades as such.

They are getting very rich selling people stats and most people take it as the holy trinity. To me its just a madden rating. Yea they might watch film of every snap but at the end of the day their just pff employees.

 

They are not in the loop so to say when it comes to NFL schemes especially on defense. The said pff employee cant possibly know what every players job is on every snap. Many many people who are in the league have come out and said this but people still take the pff way to seriously. 

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4 hours ago, EastStreet said:

As far as PFF is concerned, I think there are likely homers involved in grading. Human nature is natural for some who want to see their predictions come true. I'd like to think they rotate their graders a bit to ensure fairness. From what I've read, they do try to create balance, but I'm also not surprised if homer-ism happens from time to time. 

 

I think there are absolutely homers who do the grading, as well as individuals with biases toward or against players/teams. Like you said, it's human nature. It's also human nature to craft narratives...and they do that as well.

 

But some of the writers there have been grading these players for years, so preconceived notions are bound to happen.

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44 minutes ago, indyagent17 said:

Wow, I feel sorry for this class if Paye I listed as one of the best. I like his promise but so far he is not that impressive 

Seems kind of harsh.  What are you expecting at this point?  The guy is a rookie and has to go up against some of the best Olineman in the league instead of the college level.  

 

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He should go live with Freeney for a while and learn that spin move. On many of his rushes, he has the tackle set up for it but doesn't or can't use it. I do think his hand fighting is improving. I don't see that elite burst though. 

 

That's all as of now though.  Long way to go. 

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1 hour ago, gspdx said:

Seems kind of harsh.  What are you expecting at this point?  The guy is a rookie and has to go up against some of the best Olineman in the league instead of the college level.  

 

I didnt mean to harsh. I know it takes time but I sure didnt expect to see him listed as one of the best

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On 10/27/2021 at 7:26 PM, coming on strong said:

paye should of had two sacks last game he destroys the 49ers tackle gets to jimmy g then misses the tackle some how . this happened twice , payes rush got the strip sack assist for AQM

He was also playing against a rookie backup.

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13 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think PFF grades are overrated but anytime a Colts player is at the top of a good list that’s a good thing.

 

Like any system there is an element of subjectivity to it.  

 

It's impossible in a game which involves an 11 on 11 battle to completely objectively rate individual performance, especially for fans & media.  The most objective people who are able to rate performance is the coaching staff because unlike the fans and the media they are aware of individual assignments in detail.  

 

That said the good news I think to take from this is that there are indicators that the talent is there for him to be a good player.  He probably has to clean some stuff up and work on some stuff in order to become that good player, but he's a rookie and that statement is true of nearly every rookie.  But fans are often too impatient to realize that I think.  They get a DL in the first round wonder why he isn't leading the league in sacks his first year.

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17 hours ago, indyagent17 said:

I didnt mean to harsh. I know it takes time but I sure didnt expect to see him listed as one of the best

He was thought of as one of the best edge rushers in the draft, so it doesn't surprise me.  

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On 10/27/2021 at 7:13 PM, EastStreet said:

Paye has played really well vs the run, and he's active vs the pass. 

But zero sacks, zero QB hits, and only 1 pressure.

 

And while he's looked good vs the run, only has 13 tackles in 5 games. AQM has 25 in 7 games.

 

He needs patience, will get better, will be good, but his good grades are an example of grades that don't mirror production. He's doing a lot of the little thing well. I'd bet things will start to click, and his stats will take a turn as we play the 3 games after TN.

 

Paye is already a 1st class edge setter.  Whether or not he will end up being a great pass rusher is far from a settled matter, and we desperately need him to be this.   Everything I saw the scouting report is just as it said.  Incredible hands.  When he does sorta create pressure for the Colts it's been hand fighting from what I observed.  I saw it in camp.  It was obvious how good his hands were.  Probably would be a first class wrestler or MMA. 

 

He is exactly what he was in college so far which is why I am not confident that he will be great at getting home.  I said before the season that he is set up to be Clowney like.  Jadeveon is a major disappointment in pass rush, but commands double teams and sets a great EDGE.  

 

I appreciate how good Kwity has played so far and hopes he develops as a pass rusher, but to this point, the Colts have been bad at developing pass rushers. 

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22 hours ago, cbear said:

He should go live with Freeney for a while and learn that spin move. On many of his rushes, he has the tackle set up for it but doesn't or can't use it. I do think his hand fighting is improving. I don't see that elite burst though. 

 

That's all as of now though.  Long way to go. 

 

You know I hadn't thought of it before, but he is built like Freeney.  But Paye doesn't have the dancing shoes Dwight had.  Don't know if that kind of complex footwork is possible for KP.  Dwight was a pretty unique talent. 

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3 hours ago, Myles said:

He was thought of as one of the best edge rushers in the draft, so it doesn't surprise me.  

 

Maybe best pass rush potential, but He had 10 sacks in his entire career, so I don't think he was thought to be one of the best rushers in the draft.  He was universally labeled as a raw pass rusher with potential from what I remember reading.   And that seems to be totally accurate. 

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8 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

You know I hadn't thought of it before, but he is built like Freeney.  But Paye doesn't have the dancing shoes Dwight had.  Don't know if that kind of complex footwork is possible for KP.  Dwight was a pretty unique talent. 

I remember you hating on JT and how he isn't a good NFL back. You look pretty foolish at times.

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39 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Maybe best pass rush potential, but He had 10 sacks in his entire career, so I don't think he was thought to be one of the best rushers in the draft.  He was universally labeled as a raw pass rusher with potential from what I remember reading.   And that seems to be totally accurate. 

From a bit of Googling, he was in the top 4 of Edge rushers in that draft.   NBC had him at #2.  

 

Kwity Paye might be the best edge defender against the run with pass rushing upside in this draft class. Paye is able to stack and shed defenders with alacrity and defuse plays before they fully develop into offensive gains. Great at run containment, he consistently sets the edge to force plays inward, or make stops by effectively collapsing the corner himself. Athletically, he is as gifted as they come with elite quickness that mirrors the type of twitchiness seen from wide receivers. Keenly aware, Paye is extremely good at play recognition, avoiding falling for the proverbial "banana-in-the-tailpipe" misdirections teams use in their offensive schemes to confound less savvy defenders.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bears/2021-nfl-draft-top-10-edge-rushers-prospects

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44 minutes ago, Myles said:

From a bit of Googling, he was in the top 4 of Edge rushers in that draft.   NBC had him at #2.  

 

Kwity Paye might be the best edge defender against the run with pass rushing upside in this draft class. Paye is able to stack and shed defenders with alacrity and defuse plays before they fully develop into offensive gains. Great at run containment, he consistently sets the edge to force plays inward, or make stops by effectively collapsing the corner himself. Athletically, he is as gifted as they come with elite quickness that mirrors the type of twitchiness seen from wide receivers. Keenly aware, Paye is extremely good at play recognition, avoiding falling for the proverbial "banana-in-the-tailpipe" misdirections teams use in their offensive schemes to confound less savvy defenders.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bears/2021-nfl-draft-top-10-edge-rushers-prospects

 

I think we are talking about different things.   He was a highly rated EDGE player, but he wasn't the most accomplished EDGE rusher with only 10 sacks in college.   That whole quote is about his EDGE setting and run D though Myles.  Pass Rushing upside means maybe it will develop but hasn't yet. 

 

I like Paye.  Good player.   Good draft pick so far IMO, with a possible upside as a developing pass rusher. 

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34 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

I think we are talking about different things.   He was a highly rated EDGE player, but he wasn't the most accomplished EDGE rusher with only 10 sacks in college.   That whole quote is about his EDGE setting and run D though Myles.  Pass Rushing upside means maybe it will develop but hasn't yet. 

 

I like Paye.  Good player.   Good draft pick so far IMO, with a possible upside as a developing pass rusher. 

Hopefully he will continue to develop his pass rushing skills.   

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