Anyone else disappointed with Granson?

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Wentzszn said:

Yeah no QB Is ever perfect every game. Not even elite ones. I do they are trying to get Granson more involved. Carson will need to gain more trust in him and that comes in practice.

Yeah I don't think the draft pick was a bad one but Mo is just better right now. I love Doyle but talent wise Mo is better than him even.

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah I don't think the draft pick was a bad one but Mo is just better right now. I love Doyle but talent wise Mo is better than him even.

Granson is not really used like Doyle and Mo though.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Granson is not really used like Doyle and Mo though.

I agree with that, the guy hasn't got his chance but Mo is actually good that is probably why. 

[EastStreet]

34 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I agree with that, the guy hasn't got his chance but Mo is actually good that is probably why. 

I don't think it's all about Granson vs Mo/Doyle snap and target wise. Granson gets slot type targets, so it's it's probably more Granson vs Pascal or slot reps in general. His use certainly impacts TE usage overall, but he's dipping into slot routes more than anything IMO. 

[throwing BBZ]

21 hours ago, DougDew said:

As a general thought, I don't like players who are specialists.  It kind of telegraphs what they are going to do when they are in the game.  I get that if its a game planning thing, where we are going up against slow-ish LBers and Ss, Granson is a player on the roster who we start at TE and feed the ball to.  Outside of that, I like players who are versatile enough to stay in all three downs.  No expectations of tendencies based upon personnel packages.

 

Specialties is also a reason I'm biased against Hines.  Or deep-ball hawk only Safeties.

 

Honestly, I don't know where these offensive specialists fit in if we are going to have three versatile WRs in TY, PC, and Pitt, and blocking and receiving TE in Doyle/Mo, and a versatile running/pass catching RB in JT.  

 

Their snaps and contribution seem inherently limited, unless we go up against a defense that has a glaring weakness.

 

That applies to pass rushing specialists too.

 

 For those watching, he is being put into each game to block and is not being singled out for missing his blocks. 
 Wentz is frequently not impressive with his accuracy, timing, or touch between the hash marks. And that was Trey Burton's thing.
 He is not a turnover machine though like some of our past QB's.
 I look forward to his continued comfort and progress with his new, young, teammates.

[EastStreet]

21 hours ago, DougDew said:

As a general thought, I don't like players who are specialists.  It kind of telegraphs what they are going to do when they are in the game.  I get that if its a game planning thing, where we are going up against slow-ish LBers and Ss, Granson is a player on the roster who we start at TE and feed the ball to.  Outside of that, I like players who are versatile enough to stay in all three downs.  No expectations of tendencies based upon personnel packages.

 

Specialties is also a reason I'm biased against Hines.  Or deep-ball hawk only Safeties.

 

Honestly, I don't know where these offensive specialists fit in if we are going to have three versatile WRs in TY, PC, and Pitt, and blocking and receiving TE in Doyle/Mo, and a versatile running/pass catching RB in JT.  

 

Their snaps and contribution seem inherently limited, unless we go up against a defense that has a glaring weakness.

 

That applies to pass rushing specialists too.

I got interested in this reply. But I followed it. And I I guess I'm totally confused in the response. It didn't really address the original post, but might have value if expanded in other areas. 

[CurBeatElite]

22 hours ago, csmopar said:

Do we even really use TEs that much any more? I mean as a significant part of our passing game? It doesn’t feel like we do. 

 

Alie-Cox is our 4th leading receiver in terms of yards (behind Pittman, Pascal, JT -- so he's being used in the passing game more than most of our WRs - stats a bit biased I know, as TY has only played one game, Campbell is hurt, and WR after Pittman/Pascal has kinda been a rotating door).  Doyle is 7th in yards.  The fact that we have two TEs in our top 7 in receiving yards suggests TEs are a significant portion of our passing attack.  

 

Alie-Cox (9) is after only Pittman (23) and Pascal (10) in terms of receptions resulting in a first down.  After him, Campbell and Taylor are tied with 7 FD receptions and Doyle is in 6th place with 6 first downs... nobody else has more than 4.  

 

Alie-Cox (4) leads our team in receiving TDs.  

 

Alie-Cox and Doyle are 5th and 6th in receptions (behind Pittman, Pascal, Taylor and Hines... Campbell comes in at 7th with 10 receptions.. nobody else on the team has >7 receptions.

 

Our passing offense has been efficient the past few weeks with a healthier Wentz... though, we've relied a lot on the run and the yards and passing TDs aren't very high this year.  

 

Anyway, the fact that a TE leads our team in receiving TDs, two of our TEs are top 7 in yards and two of them are top 6 in receptions for a first-downs and two of them are top 6 in receptions... to me, suggests the TEs are a significant part of our passing offense.  Not to mention both MAC and Doyle are very solid blockers and play key roles in our run game.

 

20 hours ago, Patrick Miller said:

I'm hoping Granson takes Doyles spot next season.

 

I can certainly see Granson becoming a better receiving threat than Doyle... that said, I don't foresee him ever being as solid a blocker as Doyle.  Doyle is getting older and his production is slowing down, so it's not like I want him here forever... but I just don't see Granson being the next Doyle.. they play very differently in terms of their style and skill sets.

 

18 hours ago, CR91 said:

This whole draft was meh from the start. You can only hope Paye and Dayo develop.

If we look at Wentz as our first round pick... he's been playing pretty darn well.  I know he started a little slow, but the past several weeks he's been making very little costly mistakes, and helping us win ballgames (and did pretty much everything he could to have us in position to beat the Ravens).  

 

Paye is currently ranked the top rookie edge DL and he's getting closer to making big plays each week.  Even though he missed a couple sacks last week, at least one of them, his disruption allowed AQM to jar the ball loose from Jimmy G.  We knew Dayo was going to take time and the fact that he's back practicing has me pretty optimistic... if Granson turns into Burton 2.0 in a few years, he'll be just fine for a 4th round pick (if he's better, that's icing on the cake).. if Ehlinger turns into a solid backup as a 6th rounder, that's a solid pick.. if Fries turns into decent OL depth in the 7th round, that's a solid pick... Strachan has shown flashes and if he continues to develop, he looks like he'll be a solid pick, if he stays on as the 5th WR for a few years, it is still a solid pick... it looks like the only one we may have missed on is Harris in the 5th round, but that isn't so bad.

 

Ballard has the team in a position now where our late round picks can be used to develop players and hopefully get solid depth.  In his relatively short time in Indy, he's done a solid job of building the team to the point where we shouldn't have to rely on our late round draft picks to be anything special.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

I got interested in this reply. But I followed it. And I I guess I'm totally confused in the response. It didn't really address the original post, but might have value if expanded in other areas. 

I would think that it would be difficult to form an opinion about a response's value if a person is totally confused about it in the first place.

[Four2itus]

32 minutes ago, CurBeatElite said:

I can certainly see Granson becoming a better receiving threat than Doyle... that said, I don't foresee him ever being as solid a blocker as Doyle.  Doyle is getting older and his production is slowing down, so it's not like I want him here forever... but I just don't see Granson being the next Doyle.. they play very differently in terms of their style and skill sets.

Thanks. Needed to be said, but I was too lazy t do it. Spot on. 

[shasta519]

It's to be expected. Rookie TEs always have a steep learning curve. And in Granson's case, he not only has to learn the offense but also be a capable blocker.

 

I did think he would get used a bit more, given the role that Burton had. But they clearly don't trust him in that role yet...and that's not surprising.

[EastStreet]

21 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I would think that it would be difficult to form an opinion about a response's value if a person is totally confused about it in the first place.

Really? I actually went through the trouble of complimenting you (effort to bridge), and asking you to expand.....

But you criticize and don't even try to explain your stance.

 

Anyway, let's try to be fair, try it again, what's you're thought?

[Valpo2004]

19 hours ago, CR91 said:

This whole draft was meh from the start. You can only hope Paye and Dayo develop.

 

The whole draft was an investment in the future.  It's a mistake to expect too much out of any of them right now.  

 

They arn't RB's which take very little time to develop.  DL takes some time to develop especially to learn pass rush moves.  Takes even more time if you come into camp injured like Dayo.

 

TE's also take some time.  

 

If these guys havn't paid off by the end of their 3rd year than they are busts.  But have patience.  Most players don't come into the NFL and just start dominating.  

[TimetobringDfence!]

On 10/27/2021 at 12:19 PM, Indeee said:

I'm more disappointed with his usage. How can any player progress or regress if they aren't getting any playing time?

Thanks same with Strachan, he had three targets against SEA all on third down. Caught two and drew a PI on the third. He's never not produced when targeted but still hasn't got a shot. Can't judge Granson or Strachan yet. Granson seemed to have butterfungers in camp and preseason. But he has speed, he could be a screen weapon. I hate players that only bring one thing because it leads to predictability...Only a few QBs and Henry can be predictable and unstoppable...I think Granson fades out and Strachan will thrive if given the opportunity...

[TimetobringDfence!]

When Wentz shined in Philly he had 3 good TEs and a rew big body WR. We need to work Strachan in more this year... Wentz throws a great high ball and misses high. I wouldn't mind adding another TE talent this offseason.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

Really? I actually went through the trouble of complimenting you (effort to bridge), and asking you to expand.....

But you criticize and don't even try to explain your stance.

 

Anyway, let's try to be fair, try it again, what's you're thought?

Oh, you meant "what did you mean"?

 

If an offensive ball handler is limited in what he can do, then its easier to predict what he's not going to do (at least not do very well).  Granson is a bit small and untrained to be a complete TE, so I am not disappointed in him thus far in how many snaps he has gotten. As JT, Pitt, PC, and TY improve and get their touches, I'm not expecting Granson to get many touches unless the Colts go up against a D that is slow in the middle.

 

[EastStreet]

13 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Oh, you meant "what did you mean"?

 

If an offensive ball handler is limited in what he can do, then its easier to predict what he's not going to do (at least not do very well).  Granson is a bit small and untrained to be a complete TE, so I am not disappointed in him thus far in how many snaps he has gotten. As JT, Pitt, PC, and TY improve and get their touches, I'm not expecting Granson to get many touches unless the Colts go up against a D that is slow in the middle.

 

What I meant is, part of your reply was thought provoking. It meandered a bit too much though. The topic was Granson, but you moved off to Hines, Ss, and WRs.

 

I think it's a good topic about Granson's  utilization in general, and if his vertical use in college is opposed to his current use. Or if he's stealing targets from TEs or slots?

[cbear]

I'd be disappointed if we had lousy tightends and he still couldn't get on the field. But since we don't, I'm not sure what there is to be disappointed in.

 

Haven't heard he's a bad guy or not hustling in practice, etc., so no opinion from me one way or another, other than I hope he's getting better in practice. 

[chickenMan]

We drafted Granson to serve as our third tight end and to replace Doyle in the future. So far, he’s done fine at being our third tight end. I think two years from now we’ll see a more Mark Andrews-type player out of him, although likely not that talented/explosive