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Draft flops haunting the team


runthepost
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On 10/12/2021 at 4:11 PM, runthepost said:

I understand a GM is not going to hit on every pick, but the last several years we have had several second round picks that have not produced as well as other players at similar positions that were drafted around the player we selected.
 

2017:

Drafted Hooker 15th pick

Drafted Quincy 46th pick

 

2018: 

Drafted Turay 52nd

Drafted Lewis 64th pick

 

2019: 

Drafted Rock 34th pick

Drafted Banogu 49th pick

Drafted Campbell 59th pick

 

 

Our franchise QB retiring early is what’s haunting us 

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7 hours ago, indykmj said:

 

  True. But CB was either the driving force behind the move to C-2 or at the very least, 

  was well aware of it prior to picking Hooker where he did (yeah, I know he was

  considered to be 'great value' at #15, but if he's not gonna be a fit, the value was

  largely irrelevant).  

 

  Water over the dam at this point. But still, the pick never made sense from the get-go.

Welp, it makes even less sense now though, since we play more C3 than C2. 

But Willis was not really a C2 SS, and Rock was not really a zone CB either. And IMO, Blackmon is more a SS.

Just not really sure what we're trying to piece together.

 

 

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31 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Welp, it makes even less sense now though, since we play more C3 than C2. 

But Willis was not really a C2 SS, and Rock was not really a zone CB either. And IMO, Blackmon is more a SS.

Just not really sure what we're trying to piece together.

 

 

Yup, Rock is a man CB, while Blackmon has SS writen all over him and could be a very good one.  My complaint is, why not utilize their strengths in the scheme and actually think outside the box.  You can utilize a player in man while having a psuedo zone defense, it isn't unheard of.  Just seems like this vanilla play calling on D isn't the answer at this point, jmo.

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On 10/12/2021 at 8:55 PM, CR91 said:

I think one of the problems is Ballard prioritizing character over talent. Sometimes you gotta take a chance.

 

Character is subjective as well. People talk about Darius Leonard as if he has great character, he doesn't. He certainly works very hard, has a work ethic/chip on his shoulder. Does he come across as a great or intelligent guy, though? Absolutely not. You don't need great character to be a great football player, you need to be a psycho.

 

That's what I don't get about drafting philosophy sometimes, including ours, where we make such a big deal about this stuff. Guys like Rock and Parris were described as role models, great kids. Who gives a crap? Can they play? The answer thus far is not really. 

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1 hour ago, WentzinRome said:

Yup, Rock is a man CB, while Blackmon has SS writen all over him and could be a very good one.  My complaint is, why not utilize their strengths in the scheme and actually think outside the box.  You can utilize a player in man while having a psuedo zone defense, it isn't unheard of.  Just seems like this vanilla play calling on D isn't the answer at this point, jmo.

Yup. I would definitely move Blackmon to SS. And if Rock doesn't fit their mold at CB, you could always use him as FS. But we have no answer at CB2 right now, at least until Carrie comes back. Then we'd still have no depth lol. Wish we would have kept Hooker on the cheap to be honest. 

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3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Yup. I would definitely move Blackmon to SS. And if Rock doesn't fit their mold at CB, you could always use him as FS. But we have no answer at CB2 right now, at least until Carrie comes back. Then we'd still have no depth lol. Wish we would have kept Hooker on the cheap to be honest. 

I completely agree with you.

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5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Yup. I would definitely move Blackmon to SS. And if Rock doesn't fit their mold at CB, you could always use him as FS. But we have no answer at CB2 right now, at least until Carrie comes back. Then we'd still have no depth lol. Wish we would have kept Hooker on the cheap to be honest. 

Actually Rock would fit the bill at FS as in this defense the Safetys are supposed to be interchangeable....I just don't like the system.  I prefer an agressive man and blitzing defense.

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4 minutes ago, WentzinRome said:

Actually Rock would fit the bill at FS as in this defense the Safetys are supposed to be interchangeable....I just don't like the system.  I prefer an agressive man and blitzing defense.

 

I don't think we need to be uber aggressive in man and blitz, just not near league low in blitzing, and a bunch of cushion every play. I just want balance. 

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4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I don't think we need to be uber aggressive in man and blitz, just not near league low in blitzing, and a bunch of cushion every play. I just want balance. 

I agree about the cushion, it is basically "Prevent".  The reason the Colts lost last Monday, plus the missed field goals and extra point.

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1 hour ago, Les Poulains said:

Character is subjective as well. People talk about Darius Leonard as if he has great character, he doesn't. He certainly works very hard, has a work ethic/chip on his shoulder. Does he come across as a great or intelligent guy, though? Absolutely not. You don't need great character to be a great football player, you need to be a psycho.

 

That's what I don't get about drafting philosophy sometimes, including ours, where we make such a big deal about this stuff. Guys like Rock and Parris were described as role models, great kids. Who gives a crap? Can they play? The answer thus far is not really. 

 

Leonard is portraited by everyone as one of the smartest football minds. He may talk like he's from the south, but that doesn't mean he's not intelligent. Everything else I agree with.

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5 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Leonard is portraited by everyone as one of the smartest football minds. He may talk like he's from the south, but that doesn't mean he's not intelligent. Everything else I agree with.

Leonard creates turnovers that is what is over looked by several people. Usually you win when you win the turnover battle. He knows that.

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On 10/12/2021 at 4:11 PM, runthepost said:

I understand a GM is not going to hit on every pick, but the last several years we have had several second round picks that have not produced as well as other players at similar positions that were drafted around the player we selected.
 

2017:

Drafted Hooker 15th pick

Drafted Quincy 46th pick

 

2018: 

Drafted Turay 52nd

Drafted Lewis 64th pick

 

2019: 

Drafted Rock 34th pick

Drafted Banogu 49th pick

Drafted Campbell 59th pick

 

 

This sounds like someone from for the Colture podcast. 

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On 10/12/2021 at 8:29 PM, BProland85 said:

Pagano REALLY wanted Hooker. You could tell on the draft video of them calling Malik on the phone. Pagano basically called him the next Ed Reed.

Hooker was amazing in college, and could cover tremendous amount of ground

 

After the injury, Hooker never seemed to have the burst that he had at Ohio State

 

He was slated to go earlier than our pick by many of the talking heads.......

 

 

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16 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

Defensive coaches have failed to develop all these defensive ends we drafted.  I don’t think it is all talent. Coaches have to develop players. We have seen players develop nicely on the offensive side of the ball. It’s been mostly a failure on the defensive end.

Too early to judge that on Paye and Dayo. But the others, yeah I could agree wirh

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19 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

Leonard is portraited by everyone as one of the smartest football minds. He may talk like he's from the south, but that doesn't mean he's not intelligent. Everything else I agree with.

Leonard doesn't come across as a smart guy and it has nothing to do with his accent.

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7 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

So because he doesn't come across as a smart guy, he's not? Leonard is not some dumb hick.

Not sure why you're assuming what I meant, I never said the reason.

 

No, to clarify, the reason I don't think he's very smart is his terrible social media presence where he feels the need to respond to loads of harmless criticism in a petty and bizarre way and his opinions on vaccination, amongst other things. That's my opinion, but I also think he's objectively a bit dim. 

 

But my original point was; literally none of that matters. We drafted him because he's a talented player who works his butt off. He's a dog. We didn't draft him for his brain or his work in the community, or because "he's a great guy you'd want your kid to be like" like Parris Campbell was sold as. That's my point. Because none of that matters on the field. 

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10 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Strange post, just seeing this. He has a college degree and to my knowledge has never said anything dumb to hurt his image.

It's not strange at all, there's plenty of stuff to back up my opinion. Not to start a vaccination debate, but he's said some dumb things on that subject. And also about the Deshaun Watson stuff. That's all public. Look it up if you want, I'm not gonna explain it further, I've done that in multiple posts. 

 

In sum, I think he comes across as a doofus but also, who gives a crap, he's a good football player for the team I root for. I don't have to like the guy personally. By the way, you don't have to defend Darius Leonard all the time on the internet.  You seem like a firefly attracted to the bright light that is Darius Leonard criticism. He's got a 100 million dollar contract, he's doing alright, 

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2 minutes ago, Les Poulains said:

It's not strange at all, there's plenty of stuff to back up my opinion. Not to start a vaccination debate, but he's said some dumb things on that subject. And also about the Deshaun Watson stuff. That's all public. Look it up if you want, I'm not gonna explain it further, I've done that in multiple posts. 

 

In sum, I think he comes across as a doofus but also, who gives a crap, he's a good football player for the team I root for. I don't have to like the guy personally. By the way, you don't have to defend Darius Leonard all the time on the internet.  You seem like a firefly attracted to the bright light that is Darius Leonard criticism. He's got a 100 million dollar contract, he's doing alright, 

I defend him because he is a great football player, that is all I care about. If he doesn't want to get vaccinated that his choice. Nobody should be forced to do anything, period.

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3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I defend him because he is a great football player, that is all I care about. If he doesn't want to get vaccinated that his choice. Nobody should be forced to do anything, period.

Yeah, fantastic, he can do what he wants. I can also reserve the right to think he's not very smart for it, or for other comments he's made. You'll just have to get over it. By the way, you just reiterated my original point. He's a good player, that's all I care about. You definitely do seem to also care about people not thinking he's the sharpest tool in the shed, though, because you've felt the need to argue with me about it. 

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2 minutes ago, Les Poulains said:

Yeah, fantastic, he can do what he wants. I can also reserve the right to think he's not very smart for it, or for other comments he's made. You'll just have to get over it. By the way, you just reiterated my original point. He's a good player, that's all I care about. You definitely do seem to also care about people not thinking he's the sharpest tool in the shed, though, because you've felt the need to argue with me about it. 

What gives you the right to say the guy is dumb? How do you know, his street smarts may be off the charts, you don't know him. You started this not me with your silly comment. What makes you so smart?

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6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

What gives you the right to say the guy is dumb? How do you know, his street smarts may be off the charts, you don't know him. You started this not me with your silly comment. What makes you so smart?

Can you read? I gave my reasoning multiple times. Usually when you jump into an argument, you read what the other person says, mate. 

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1 minute ago, Les Poulains said:

Can you read? I gave my reasoning multiple times. Usually when you jump into an argument, you read what the other person says, mate. 

I read it, I just wanted an explanation because I thought the whole convo was odd. Nothing against you but when someone posts something that baffles me, I just wonder if it is trolling or legit.

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I read it, I just wanted an explanation because I thought the whole convo was odd. Nothing against you but when someone posts something that baffles me, I just wonder if it is trolling or legit.

It really wasn't that odd if you read the whole thing. 

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