2021 Colts at Baltimore Postgame Thoughts

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Some good stuff at the beginning of the podcast with Lawrence Owen and Dequell Jackson. Talks about how Flus screwed up and how he could of played it different with all the backups.

 

 

[EastStreet]

33 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

Some good stuff at the beginning of the podcast with Lawrence Owen and Dequell Jackson. Talks about how Flus screwed up and how he could of played it different with all the backups.

 

 

 

Yup, they are torching Flus, but trying to do it in a nice way.

 

They are spot on about several things like when you're backed up like we are, you have to go man in "got to have it" moments. And it's easier for newbs to play man, than to come in and understand all the zone concepts and handoffs that our starters understand (not all that well though lol)... And then asking our 4 man front to chase Jackson all game without a little help is pretty bad strategy when it comes to late game situations.

 

@DougDew what is your opinion on their takes?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

15 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Yup, they are torching Flus, but trying to do it in a nice way.

 

They are spot on about several things like when you're backed up like we are, you have to go man in "got to have it" moments. And it's easier for newbs to play man, than to come in and understand all the zone concepts and handoffs that our starters understand (not all that well though lol)... And then asking our 4 man front to chase Jackson all game without a little help is pretty bad strategy when it comes to late game situations.

 

@DougDew what is your opinion on their takes?

At the end he talks about Leonard’s bad energy when the team gives up a bad play. I thought that makes a lot of sense. Instead of throwing his hands up looking around like what just happened he should go up to his guys encouraging them saying we will get them next time.

 

I don’t think Flus is going to change. We just need a new defensive staff. 

[EastStreet]

7 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

At the end he talks about Leonard’s bad energy when the team gives up a bad play. I thought that makes a lot of sense. Instead of throwing his hands up looking around like what just happened he should go up to his guys encouraging them saying we will get them next time.

 

I don’t think Flus is going to change. We just need a new defensive staff. 

 

IDK. Leonard gave up a big play, and came right back and had a huge play. Not saying he shouldn't tone down his tantrums/actions, but he normally comes back hard after he gives up a bad play.

 

I really wonder how much Flus's schemes and game plans are his, and how much comes from above. He came from Dallas which was more assertive/aggressive IMO. Our conservative and soft approach on D the last few years seem akin to, or a mirror of our conservative approach on offense.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

IDK. Leonard gave up a big play, and came right back and had a huge play. Not saying he shouldn't tone down his tantrums/actions, but he normally comes back hard after he gives up a bad play.

 

I really wonder how much Flus's schemes and game plans are his, and how much comes from above. He came from Dallas which was more assertive/aggressive IMO. Our conservative and soft approach on D the last few years seem akin to, or a mirror of our conservative approach on offense.

No way. I think Flus is the opposite of Reich. One reason I think he will be gone is first he wasn’t Reich’s choice and I could see Reich wanting someone more aggresive.  The players have to get so defeated playing this soft zone. I think they have only had like 3 Pass breakups all season.

[EastStreet]

3 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

No way. I think Flus is the opposite of Reich. One reason I think he will be gone is first he wasn’t Reich’s choice and I could see Reich wanting someone more aggresive.  The players have to get so defeated playing this soft zone. I think they have only had like 3 Pass breakups all season.

Frank plays a very conservative O scheme. He's only aggressive in certain situations when the card tells him to be. 

You think Wentz and the pass catchers felt great when he called 6 straight run plays? Same feeling as D guys playing soft schemes.

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

9 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Frank plays a very conservative O scheme. He's only aggressive in certain situations when the card tells him to be. 

You think Wentz and the pass catchers felt great when he called 6 straight run plays? Same feeling as D guys playing soft schemes.

 

Reich  is not telling flus to just be soft and sit back in those situations. No  way. No coach is that dumb.

[Zoltan]

9 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I really wonder how much Flus's schemes and game plans are his, and how much comes from above. He came from Dallas which was more assertive/aggressive IMO. Our conservative and soft approach on D the last few years seem akin to, or a mirror of our conservative approach on offense.

 

They really weren't Eberflus learned under Rod Marinelli who ran a similar similar system of not blitzing and rushing only the front 4. Marinelli did use more press coverage though in Dallas

[Fluke_33]

12 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

Some good stuff at the beginning of the podcast with Lawrence Owen and Dequell Jackson. Talks about how Flus screwed up and how he could of played it different with all the backups.

 

 

Cool to see how far @Lawrence Owen has come.  Good Stuff.   

 

Although i cringe when literally is misused but that's just me and it's done everywhere.

[EastStreet]

9 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

Reich  is not telling flus to just be soft and sit back in those situations. No  way. No coach is that dumb.

That's our D... lol... This wasn't just something that happened in just one game. 

 

And Reich is the HC. He approves strategy, and game plans. And he's Flus's boss.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

49 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

That's our D... lol... This wasn't just something that happened in just one game. 

 

And Reich is the HC. He approves strategy, and game plans. And he's Flus's boss.

Teams play zone all the time. Even zone coverage isn’t as wide open as ours. We have players who are not disaplined in their zones. We have terrible LB in zone. Even zone isn’t that wide open. And this is why Reich said him and flus had a long talk.

[EastStreet]

9 hours ago, Zoltan said:

 

They really weren't Eberflus learned under Rod Marinelli who ran a similar similar system of not blitzing and rushing only the front 4. Marinelli did use more press coverage though in Dallas

I disagree a bit. I agree Dallas wasn't blitz happy (most 4-3s are not), but they still blitzed more on average than we do. RM's last year in Dallas looks like they blitzed around 23%. In comparison last year we were 17% (near league low). Dallas also rotated and stunted more IIRC. They also had like 15+ CB and LB QBHs in 16 and 17 when Flus was there.

 

And Marinelli like you said pressed a lot more (aggressive) and played more man, but also played C2 a lot more (we play more C3 as a base and quarters and qqh on third). 

 

Not trying to make Dallas out to be super aggressive, but they weren't near as soft as we have been.

 

[Zoltan]

3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I disagree a bit. I agree Dallas wasn't blitz happy (most 4-3s are not), but they still blitzed more on average than we do. RM's last year in Dallas looks like they blitzed around 23%. In comparison last year we were 17% (near league low). Dallas also rotated and stunted more IIRC. They also had like 15+ CB and LB QBHs in 16 and 17 when Flus was there.

 

And Marinelli like you said pressed a lot more (aggressive) and played more man, but also played C2 a lot more (we play more C3 as a base and quarters and qqh on third). 

 

Not trying to make Dallas out to be super aggressive, but they weren't near as soft as we have been.

 

 

In 2020 we used cover 3 as our base but that seemed to be more of an evolution by Eberflus and when you search up Marinelli you see a lot of the same complaints that we have with Eberflus, like almost mirror image. For example how Marinelli used Claiborne and Eberflus uses Rock Ya-sin. Marinelli may had gotten more aggressive at the end of his run in Dallas but when you look at fan complaints and the articles on Marinelli's defense they are quite similar.

[EastStreet]

14 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

Teams play zone all the time. Even zone coverage isn’t as wide open as ours. We have players who are not disaplined in their zones. We have terrible LB in zone. Even zone isn’t that wide open. And this is why Reich said him and flus had a long talk.

Couple things to keep in mind. (1) There is simple zone, and complex zone. Our zone is a bit more complex than a standard zone. We have a lot of rip/liz elements blended in, which means a lot of decisions each play and a lot of handoffs from player to player or zone to zone. And (2), if you have rooks or practice squad guys, it's easier to use them in man coverage than zone, especially complex zones. Every DB knows how to play man, and it's easier for them if they are new. Not every DB can grasp zone concepts, especially ones that are fresh to the system are don't have experience. In short, when you have Chesleys, Keyes, and Sendejos playing, don't expect them to understand all of our zone decisions and handoffs. They can however understand "man". 

[EastStreet]

8 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

 

In 2020 we used cover 3 as our base but that seemed to be more of an evolution by Eberflus and when you search up Marinelli you see a lot of the same complaints that we have with Eberflus, like almost mirror image. For example how Marinelli used Claiborne and Eberflus uses Rock Ya-sin. Marinelli may had gotten more aggressive at the end of his run in Dallas but when you look at fan complaints and the articles on Marinelli's defense they are quite similar.

I agree that C3 was our base, but that's not saying a lot (I think most early downs). We were only in C3 IIRC about 28% of the time, and weren't in the top 15 of any particular coverage, except for C6/QQH (prevent)... And we're in Nickel the great majority of downs, and playing with a ton of cushion. 

 

So in short, we seem to switch coverages a ton, but tend to stay soft.

 

I don't really look at criticisms as a great measurement as criticism can span coverages, zone vs man, cushion, or personnel. If they are specific criticism on those elements, then yes. My only confusion about Rock's use, was that he came from a press man system, and that's not how we use him. So more of scheme fit question.

[Zoltan]

12 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I agree that C3 was our base, but that's not saying a lot (I think most early downs). We were only in C3 IIRC about 28% of the time, and weren't in the top 15 of any particular coverage, except for C6/QQH (prevent)... And we're in Nickel the great majority of downs, and playing with a ton of cushion. 

 

So in short, we seem to switch coverages a ton, but tend to stay soft.

 

I don't really look at criticisms as a great measurement as criticism can span coverages, zone vs man, cushion, or personnel. If they are specific criticism on those elements, then yes. My only confusion about Rock's use, was that he came from a press man system, and that's not how we use him. So more of scheme fit question.

 

I see we have both read the same pff article haha.

 

That was the exact same confusion about how Marinelli used Claiborne.

 

Here's a nugget I found:

Quote

For year's Marinelli, employed a bend, don't break defense with the Cowboys. Rarely blitzed, forced teams to throw underneath, secondary's biggest job was to prevent the big play. The scheme was based on, offenses needing to drive the entire field and toughening up in the redzone. The scheme wasn't game specific, where it was quite easy for opposing teams to exploit their weaknesses.

 

 

 

[EastStreet]

16 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

 

I see we have both read the same pff article haha.

 

That was the exact same confusion about how Marinelli used Claiborne.

 

Here's a nugget I found:

 

Yup. Wish there was a an easy and widely available source for coverage % week to week. 

 

RM would stiffen up in the RZ though. We stayed charmin soft last week. 

 

Honestly I don't expect Flus to be RM. And not saying I want him to be either. But what I see I just don't like. At the end of the day, I don't mind bend-don't-break (if it works), but we break. And I just don't like being league low in stats, and we're near league again in blitz, league low in pressure %, league low in passer rating allowed, and league low in passing TDs allowed.

 

Something needs to change. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Joel Erickson was mentioning on his podcast how Lewis and AQM played 80% of the snaps in this game. He said you can’t expect players to take that many snaps especially against Jackson. I know Paye and Rochelle missed this game but he mentioned baker has to do a better job with rotation. Even if that means Banogu gets more snaps.

 

Also a good point is this defense relies too much on a splash play instead of just fundamental football.

[WoolMagnet]

1 hour ago, Wentzszn said:

Joel Erickson was mentioning on his podcast how Lewis and AQM played 80% of the snaps in this game. He said you can’t expect players to take that many snaps especially against Jackson. I know Paye and Rochelle missed this game but he mentioned baker has to do a better job with rotation. Even if that means Banogu gets more snaps.

 

Also a good point is this defense relies too much on a splash play instead of just fundamental football.

This confused me as well.

Ballard is all about DL depth and rotation in “waves” as he puts it.

Possibly because of emphasis on stopping the run, but still.  
What happened to those 20 or so DLmen that made initial final cuts?

[WoolMagnet]

1 hour ago, Wentzszn said:

Joel Erickson was mentioning on his podcast how Lewis and AQM played 80% of the snaps in this game. He said you can’t expect players to take that many snaps especially against Jackson. I know Paye and Rochelle missed this game but he mentioned baker has to do a better job with rotation. Even if that means Banogu gets more snaps.

 

Also a good point is this defense relies too much on a splash play instead of just fundamental football.

Then you have Leonard and now Okereke i see going for ball instead of tackles.

  The team is slippy.  From routes  to blocking to fundamentals.

  Watch NE or Seattle or Pittsburgh sometime if you want to see good technique. 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

On the blue stable podcast they were trashing eberflus.  The one guy goes I seen Turay, Grover, Banogu, all dropping into coverage multiple times. Then they trashed him for leaving keys on a island on his first olay. That is worth a listen too

[smittywerb]

On 10/12/2021 at 10:10 PM, Wentzszn said:

This is false. We came out the second half and had a TD in two plays. We came out aggressive.

 

Ok, change the word "entire" to whatever you want to, the point still stands.  We got ahead and let the foot off the gas.