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EastStreet
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24 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Chuckie... 

I hate cancel culture, but this was really really dumb.

Not sure he survives this.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/jon-gruden-email-demaurice-smith-11633721045

Why would anyone send that email?

 

Regardless of the race of the person, what did that have to do with the man's negotiations?  I know this will become about race,  and it probably should.   However, the fact he had nothing else to say in a multi billion dollar negotiation should give you pause that he is a guy making decisions if am his employer.    

 

It's the equivalent of giving raspberries to someone you don't like as a child

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17 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Why would anyone send that email?

 

Regardless of the race of the person, what did that have to do with the man's negotiations?  I know this will become about race,  and it probably should.   However, the fact he had nothing else to say in a multi billion dollar negotiation should give you pause that he is a guy making decisions if am his employer.    

 

It's the equivalent of giving raspberries to someone you don't like as a child

Yup, just super dumb. 

As much as I detest cancel culture, not sure how you explain away the pure dumbness of this. 

I'm not going to argue his intent, which he seems to be doing, but I personally don't buy what he's selling.

 

Never hated Gruden, just never thought he was some great coach or QB guy. Not wishing him ill will or anything, but I'd drop the hammer on him lol...

 

RIP Chuckie... 

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17 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yesterday at work I was talking to someone about what Urban Meyer did, the guy I was talking to said that will be the talk for at least 2 weeks. I said, give it a few days and some other coach will mess up, there you have it lmao 

Frankly I don't care what Meyer did. Two consenting adults, no harm to anyone except the embarrassment he caused his wife. He deserves to get dumped by his wife, not fired IMO. 

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12 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Frankly I don't care what Meyer did. Two consenting adults, no harm to anyone except the embarrassment he caused his wife. He deserves to get dumped by his wife, not fired IMO. 

I really don't have a huge problem with it, it wasn't like he was cheating on her. At least that hasn't been said. I think because the Jags just lost to go to 0-4 is why it was a big deal. 

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20 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Frankly I don't care what Meyer did. Two consenting adults, no harm to anyone except the embarrassment he caused his wife. He deserves to get dumped by his wife, not fired IMO. 

Not coming home and watching film immediately after the game with his coaches is more troubling than the weird cover 2 he was pulling on that lady at the bar

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14 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Not coming home and watching film immediately after the game with his coaches is more troubling than the weird cover 2 he was pulling on that lady at the bar

 

Coaches blow off steam too, just like players. Not saying he shouldn't have flown home with the team, but I don't care that he didn't. He was dropping into to his own bar/restaurant IIRC. 

 

It looked like she was the one playing cover 2 lol

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10 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

This is so stupid. So apparently saying someone has big lips is racist. So other races can’t have big lips. Cancel culture is so stupid.

 

I......agree. :thinking:  cancel culture is waaay out of hand.

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Re the Gruden situation, there was a time when a 'victim' was allowed to choose 

to NOT be offended by a stupid comment (sticks and stones, etc.).

 

Unfortunately now, the cancel culture warriors have eliminated that option. Any 

victim who isn't sufficiently offended and outraged is denigrated to almost the same 

degree that the perpetrator of the stupid comment is.

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15 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Never hated Gruden, just never thought he was some great coach or QB guy. Not wishing him ill will or anything, but I'd drop the hammer on him lol...

That right there, he took a Tony led team that should have won a SB finally to win a SB before killing them. Then he just got a cushy ESPN job and they forced him into being a QB guru. He was never a necessary good coach, and even less talent evaluator 

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11 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

This is so stupid. So apparently saying someone has big lips is racist. So other races can’t have big lips. Cancel culture is so stupid.


I agree about cancel culture to an extent, but the “big lips” as a racial trope regarding black people has been a thing for a LONG time.

 

You would think someone who has worked so closely with black people for so long would be more sensitive to that sort of thing.

 

Reminds me of the “nappy hair” comment that radio guy made years ago.

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On 10/8/2021 at 9:21 PM, EastStreet said:

 

Chuckie... 

I hate cancel culture, but this was really really dumb.

Not sure he survives this.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/jon-gruden-email-demaurice-smith-11633721045

Is there a source that isn't behind a pay wall? If there is a click bait sounding article behind a pay wall I assume there was plenty of spin somehow. What I did see was this supposedly was something from 2011 being investigated by pouring through over 600 thousand emails. My question is more about what they were investigating to begin with?

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12 minutes ago, life long said:

Is there a source that isn't behind a pay wall? If there is a click bait sounding article behind a pay wall I assume there was plenty of spin somehow. What I did see was this supposedly was something from 2011 being investigated by pouring through over 600 thousand emails. My question is more about what they were investigating to begin with?

if you go into "private" on your browser, you should be able to read the WSJ article.

 

Here's the ESPN

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32362483/report-jon-gruden-used-racist-comment-referring-nflpa-head-demaurice-smith-2011-email

 

They were investigating workplace misconduct at WFT.

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On 10/9/2021 at 6:28 AM, Wentzszn said:

This is so stupid. So apparently saying someone has big lips is racist. So other races can’t have big lips. Cancel culture is so stupid.


Without defending Cancel Culture because I hate it…. 
 

Commenting on big lips for black people has been a racist comment for hundreds of years.   This ISN’T a cancel culture thing.   I don’t think Gruden will lose his job,  but I think he’ll suffer some type of punishment.   It was an astoundingly stupid comment to make in a document that apparently got circulated throughout league-wide business.   Sorry, but   I don’t think doing nothing is an option. 

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1 hour ago, IndySouthsider said:

It wasn’t a bar it was Urban’s Chophouse. Literally the restaurant he owns.

It has a bar.  And a dance floor.  Read the story

9 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:


Without defending Cancel Culture because I hate it…. 
 

Commenting on big lips for black people has been a racist comment for hundreds of years.   This ISN’T a cancel culture thing.   I don’t think Gruden will lose his job,  but I think he’ll suffer some type of punishment.   It was an astoundingly stupid comment to make in a document that apparently got circulated throughout league-wide business.   Sorry, but   I don’t think doing nothing is an option. 

At the VERY least,  very unprofessional 

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16 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

It has a bar.  And a dance floor.  Read the story

At the VERY least,  very unprofessional 

And the oddity as I understand it….

 

Gruden wasn’t even coaching in the NFL at that time.   He was broadcasting with ESPN.   But he was apparently frustrated with the players who were being locked out in a contract dispute.   It wasn’t the players holding out, it was the owners locking them out.   But for some reason, Gruden felt the need to insert himself in the league-wide discussion at the time.   Why he did that only he knows?   

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On 10/9/2021 at 9:03 PM, Lucky Colts Fan said:


I agree about cancel culture to an extent, but the “big lips” as a racial trope regarding black people has been a thing for a LONG time.

 

You would think someone who has worked so closely with black people for so long would be more sensitive to that sort of thing.

 

Reminds me of the “nappy hair” comment that radio guy made years ago.


That’s true with Gruden and what we expect of him having worked with African Americans in the league.

 

But the same parameters can’t be applied to Sergio Garcia of Spain in the PGA tour forced to apologize to Tiger Woods with his sponsorship threatened etc. for making a comment about fried chicken (not the kind of guy I’d expect to be up to date with the connotations from the South a while ago).

 

Heck I’m not black or white and I didn’t know and had to look it up. Yes, cancel culture doesn’t give enough benefits of doubt, IMO.

 

 

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For what it’s worth….

 

Gruden was NOT fired for one email.  He was fired for a long string of emails insulting pretty much everyone 

 

So this is NOT a Cancel Culture moment.  As a giant company the NFL had no choice. 
 

And to be clear, I hate Cancel Culture.  But this was not it. 

 

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I mean, how dumb must he have been to put all that crap into WRITTEN emails?  It’s one thing to spew out in anger, verbally, but he was a celebrity commentator.  Just dumb beyond words.  Thank goodness the Colts didn’t lure him here ... and difficult to have pity. He really screwed himself big time, as I would expect he’s now finished in coaching and as a TV personality. Knock if you’re with me. Hope he invested his dollars well. 

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Good riddens.  In ANY job/career you speak like that and you’re gone.  This isn’t cancel culture.  
 

his comments were racist, homophobic, and misogynistic.  
 

my question is why did he feel that comfortable to say it to an owner?  
 

we’ve all cursed our bosses and co-workers.  But have I never brought a persons race, gender, or sexual orientation into any of my conversations.  It’s just unprofessional and shouldn’t be in the workplace period.

 

good bye gruden.  

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Wow. Oh. Wow. :facepalm:

 

I would not want Gruden representing my team or my company. It was bad enough what he wrote about DeMaurice Smith, but it did not stop there. He sent many emails to Bruce Allen and to other bigwigs, denigrating many groups of people. He and Bruce Allen even exchanged emails about the a member of the Buccaneers family (that employed both of them), making homophobic remarks about him. He called Goodell a slur. He made comments about players, women, female refs, and more. I wonder what Carl Nassib thinks of Gruden now. 

 

This is not cancel culture. 

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On 10/8/2021 at 11:51 PM, jvan1973 said:

Regardless of the race of the person, what did that have to do with the man's negotiations?  I know this will become about race,  and it probably should.   However, the fact he had nothing else to say in a multi billion dollar negotiation should give you pause that he is a guy making decisions if am his employer. 

 

Well said. I wondered the same. How he and Bruce Allen remained employed for so long also should give people pause. This must be commonplace in football. The ease with which they exchanged these emails without worry or concern shows that this may be a much bigger problem. 

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1 hour ago, NFLfan said:

I wonder what Carl Nassib thinks of Gruden now. 

I don't know anything about their relationship, but he has to be gutted.

 

1 hour ago, NFLfan said:

This is not cancel culture. 

Just felt the need to reiterate this. If you say horrid things and your employer no longer wants you as one of the most public leaders in the organization, you're being held accountable for the things you've said, not being "cancelled".

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2 minutes ago, Shive said:

I don't know anything about their relationship, but he has to be gutted.

 

Just felt the need to reiterate this. If you say horrid things and your employer no longer wants you as one of the most public leaders in the organization, you're being held accountable for the things you've said, not being "cancelled".

 

Yep. Just because a lot of people say or write similar comments does not make them acceptable. 

 

A Vikings fan once wrote that folks seem to be more outraged by someone being "cancelled" than by the behavior of the person which warranted the firing/suspension/etc. It was spot on.

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On 10/8/2021 at 11:51 PM, jvan1973 said:

Why would anyone send that email?

 

Regardless of the race of the person, what did that have to do with the man's negotiations?  I know this will become about race,  and it probably should.   However, the fact he had nothing else to say in a multi billion dollar negotiation should give you pause that he is a guy making decisions if am his employer.    

 

It's the equivalent of giving raspberries to someone you don't like as a child

First the article was poorly written. They made it sound like he was inside the NFL at the time he wasn’t. I know not a big deal but I hate it when they write it like “he was huge and working for” when he wasn’t.  As for what he said, it was stupid but we don’t get the full context either. They just give excerpts of the email. 

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One of the worst things is barely getting a mention in here - him, Bruce Allen and other male employees were exchanging topless pictures of Washington cheerleaders, who at the time were in the middle of a sexual harassment lawsuit against the Redskins and called them "juicy *"... HOW? How does one feel comfortable doing this with other higher ups in football organizations? My only guess would be - this is not an isolated incident and the NFL and NFL teams are filled with people with similar attitudes towards women, minorities and homosexual people so... it's just not that big a deal to them.. it's something they've seen before and even if they don't participate in it, they ignore it. This is how stuff like this is hidden over the better part of a decade and only emerges when the league needs a scapegoat to divert attention from the owners of that team in the middle of the scandal. 

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2 hours ago, stitches said:

One of the worst things is barely getting a mention in here - him, Bruce Allen and other male employees were exchanging topless pictures of Washington cheerleaders, who at the time were in the middle of a sexual harassment lawsuit against the Redskins and called them "juicy *"... HOW? How does one feel comfortable doing this with other higher ups in football organizations? My only guess would be - this is not an isolated incident and the NFL and NFL teams are filled with people with similar attitudes towards women, minorities and homosexual people so... it's just not that big a deal to them.. it's something they've seen before and even if they don't participate in it, they ignore it. This is how stuff like this is hidden over the better part of a decade and only emerges when the league needs a scapegoat to divert attention from the owners of that team in the middle of the scandal. 


 

its call being apart of the “Good Ol Boys”.  If you feel comfortable doing something, it means that you’ve been doing it for a while.  
 

I mean don’t get me wrong, as men, we’ve all had conversations about attractive women in our workplaces.  But sending pornographic material of them to each other in the workplace without consent from the woman? Wow.  That’s bold.  

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9 hours ago, stitches said:

One of the worst things is barely getting a mention in here - him, Bruce Allen and other male employees were exchanging topless pictures of Washington cheerleaders, who at the time were in the middle of a sexual harassment lawsuit against the Redskins and called them "juicy *"... HOW? How does one feel comfortable doing this with other higher ups in football organizations?

 

I did not know about the exchanges of pictures. It is so unprofessional.

 

9 hours ago, stitches said:

My only guess would be - this is not an isolated incident and the NFL and NFL teams are filled with people with similar attitudes towards women, minorities and homosexual people so... it's just not that big a deal to them.. it's something they've seen before and even if they don't participate in it, they ignore it.

 

Exactly. I wrote something similar earlier. They carried on, not giving any thought to perhaps this is inappropriate. It is clearly something they found no problem with even in a work setting. 

 

I am interested to hear what that former female Raiders executive has to say. (Ms. Trask) She worked with both Bruce Allen and John Gruden. What do the Glazers have to say? Both John Gruden and Bruce Allen made homophobic comments about one of their employers. 

 

It is embarrassing for the league. 

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On 10/9/2021 at 2:28 PM, Wentzszn said:

This is so stupid. So apparently saying someone has big lips is racist. So other races can’t have big lips. Cancel culture is so stupid.

This isn't cancel culture... you just don't say those things in professional emails that are, in effect, on the record. We all say things that are perhaps beyond the pale but you pick where and to whom you say them, a work email is never such a place. Beyond stupid.

 

If he'd made the same statements in a press conference would you be crying cancel culture? At the least not recognising the link between 'big lips' and offensive caricatures shows your social sensitivity maybe got cancelled too soon. 

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Breaking news:  Buccaneers to remove Gruden from their ring of fame.

 

I don't totally disagree with that move.  Probably ought to happen.  Maybe.  Although it's happening pretty quick.

 

Question:  If we're going to remove Gruden from all things in all places in all ways because of what he wrote, there's a bust of O. J. Simpson sitting in Canton that probably deserves the same considerations, yes?

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18 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

Breaking news:  Buccaneers to remove Gruden from their ring of fame.

 

I don't totally disagree with that move.  Probably ought to happen.  Maybe.  Although it's happening pretty quick.

 

Question:  If we're going to remove Gruden from all things in all places in all ways because of what he wrote, there's a bust of O. J. Simpson sitting in Canton that probably deserves the same considerations, yes?

Simpson, who only butchered two people, is also still on the Bills Wall of fame. Why isn't  cancel culture all over this one ?

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