Mack and Colts mutually agree to seek trade (Merge)

[AKB]

2 minutes ago, runthepost said:

Run jet sweeps with Doyle, they will never expect this

anyone else laugh each time dulin ran behind our oline for a "jet sweep"

[EastStreet]

• Michel overall was overrated when drafted. Most projected him as a mid, perhaps late 2nd rounder. He was 31st, so not too much out of whack. He benefited in CFB by OL and scheme. Regardless, he was bottom 1st, so don't let the 1st round tag weigh too much.
• Michel wasn't really trending down. If you follow the Pats or BB in general, you know he rotates RBs, and you know he moves on from most after their rook contracts. BB is happy to sign cheap FAs too. In this particular case, he's moved on to Damien Harris, another SEC back, who he got in the 3rd. He also resigned White on the cheap (who is Hines like). He was never going to pay Michel after his rook years ran out. He traded a year before he lost value.
• His drop off in production (total for the year) was due to a hip flexor mid last year. He still had better AVG than Harris last year, and he had very very strong games the last three games of the season. 
• Mack and Michel are different types. Mack is more of a zone runner with a little dance, Michel is more a power N/S power runner. Neither do much in the passing game. Michel however has that SEC pedigree which Mack does not. Michel is also a year younger, and his injury is less a concern than Mack's.
• RB market value is down. They are looked at as fungible. Their value is more than not, situationally dependent. Michel's value was likely inflated because the Rams were desperate. Can we get that much for Mack, not likely, unless we find a desperate team. But side by side, and divorced from situation, Michel is more valuable. 

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, AustinnKaine said:

anyone else laugh each time dulin ran behind our oline for a "jet sweep"

With our OL situation, the only players that should be running sweeps are those that are 4.3 guys. Dulin is fast, but not fast enough with our OL getting knocked back.

 

[EastStreet]

31 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

We know Wilkins isn’t trash. He is a good player.

 

He is not trash, but some overrate him.

He typically got his yards late in games once the DL was worn down. 

Williams outran him two years ago when Mack was out.

He's fine for a backup. He's not to the level of Mack though.

[TimetobringDfence!]

3 hours ago, MPStack said:

Traded for a 5th and 6th, that can turn into a possible 4th. 
 

Also, a former 1st Rd pick.  

 

The Colts won’t get a 4th and 6th. 

 

 

 

So what if he was in the first, when did he put up 1000 yards b2b.

[TimetobringDfence!]

59 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

• Michel overall was overrated when drafted. Most projected him as a mid, perhaps late 2nd rounder. He was 31st, so not too much out of whack. He benefited in CFB by OL and scheme. Regardless, he was bottom 1st, so don't let the 1st round tag weigh too much.
• Michel wasn't really trending down. If you follow the Pats or BB in general, you know he rotates RBs, and you know he moves on from most after their rook contracts. BB is happy to sign cheap FAs too. In this particular case, he's moved on to Damien Harris, another SEC back, who he got in the 3rd. He also resigned White on the cheap (who is Hines like). He was never going to pay Michel after his rook years ran out. He traded a year before he lost value.
• His drop off in production (total for the year) was due to a hip flexor mid last year. He still had better AVG than Harris last year, and he had very very strong games the last three games of the season. 
• Mack and Michel are different types. Mack is more of a zone runner with a little dance, Michel is more a power N/S power runner. Neither do much in the passing game. Michel however has that SEC pedigree which Mack does not. Michel is also a year younger, and his injury is less a concern than Mack's.
• RB market value is down. They are looked at as fungible. Their value is more than not, situationally dependent. Michel's value was likely inflated because the Rams were desperate. Can we get that much for Mack, not likely, unless we find a desperate team. But side by side, and divorced from situation, Michel is more valuable. 

Mack is a decent recieving back. Better than avg.

[chickenMan]

What a flipping waste. It’s not like we even kicked the tires on the man at all this season to see if he still has some juice. Not to mention losing a good locker room member and JT’s personal mentor. Seriously beginning to have major doubts about this front office.

 

Likely get nothing more than a 6th out of this.

 

Dark days in the Colts part of the NFL

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

Mack is a decent recieving back. Better than avg.

Never really used that way after his first year.

IIRC, dropped one in game one.

Not saying he's incapable, but for whatever reason Reich never did, but used Hines and Taylor plenty.

[ProblChld32]

13 hours ago, Nickster said:

I think  this is a mistake because I think JT and Mack complement each other's skill sets.  Mack is also good in pass pro, and we need that.

 

JT is decent, but he's far from a star right now.  

Of course I think the season is probably lost so it probably doesn't matter. 

you don’t pay Hines the money you gave him and try to keep Mack. Marlon wants to play. His contribution has been very minimal and as much as he is a team player I’m sure that is bothering him.

[lollygagger8]

17 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

Well we still have Wilkins and jackson on the practice squad. We really do have a lot of good depth there. 

 

Mack > Wilkins, Jackson and whoever else 

 

To have Mack as a 3rd option an not use him is absurd. I would seek a trade if I were him too. 

 

I just hope no other players want to jump this seemingly sinking ship 

[Nickster]

5 hours ago, ProblChld32 said:

you don’t pay Hines the money you gave him and try to keep Mack. Marlon wants to play. His contribution has been very minimal and as much as he is a team player I’m sure that is bothering him.

Oh I agree from Mack’s perspective, I just think it hurts the Colts chances of winning.  The season is all but lost anyway.

 

you don’t pay Hines or any other RB that kind of money period.  Let alone a 3rd down back.  Terrible move by CB.  And I really like Hines, but its gonna prove dumb investing what we have in RB the last two seasons,  really really dumb,

[Indeee]

13 hours ago, Stephen said:

Wilkins is worse than mack

We will agree to disagree on this one

[Myles]

42 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

 

you don’t pay Hines or any other RB that kind of money period.  Let alone a 3rd down back.  Terrible move by CB.  And I really like Hines, but its gonna prove dumb investing what we have in RB the last two seasons,  really really dumb,

I tend to agree now.   At the time of the signing I thought maybe they would use him like they should.  Passing the ball to him allot. 

[pgt_rob]

I like Mack but I don't blame him. We have a loaded RB group and he's a great player. He can catch the football as well. Hopefully he finds a good home.

[Shive]

2 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

To have Mack as a 3rd option an not use him is absurd. I would seek a trade if I were him too. 

 

I just hope no other players want to jump this seemingly sinking ship 

Mack isn't requesting a trade to "jump a sinking ship". He's RB3 on the depth chart and thinks he could be an RB1. For him and his career, it makes sense. He re-signed with us for cheap, rehabbed the injury, and showed in preseason that he's healthy. For him to be able to showcase what he can do in a prominent role and earn himself a much better contract next year, it isn't as RB3 on our roster. He'll need to go somewhere else. He's a good player at a crowded position that wants to make the most out of this season to secure a better contract for himself.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Never mind 

[TimetobringDfence!]

11 hours ago, MPStack said:

One season at 1091 yds to be precise.

 

S. Michel two 900 plus rush seasons. 
 

Huge, huge difference in production. You win!

Marlon did the same thing. 1900+rushing yrds and more all purpose in b2b seasons.

[TimetobringDfence!]

1 hour ago, pgt_rob said:

I like Mack but I don't blame him. We have a loaded RB group and he's a great player. He can catch the football as well. Hopefully he finds a good home.

I want to see him in the NFC lol. On a team that plays the Titans this year lol.

[MPStack]

1 minute ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

Marlon did the same thing. 1900+rushing yrds and more all purpose in b2b seasons.

There’s not a huge difference.  The production is close. I should of hit on this last night with another fan, in regards to Wentz.

 

Wentz was traded for a 2nd and potential 1st Rd picks. So, if you had a 4th Rd pick QB (like Mack) who had the same history, stats etc. as Wentz and that QB just came off a serious injury. Do you think that QB, would bring the same drafts picks as Wentz?

 

Virtually the same situation with Michels and Mack. 
 

I would say absolutely not.

 

[lollygagger8]

33 minutes ago, Shive said:

Mack isn't requesting a trade to "jump a sinking ship". He's RB3 on the depth chart and thinks he could be an RB1. For him and his career, it makes sense. He re-signed with us for cheap, rehabbed the injury, and showed in preseason that he's healthy. For him to be able to showcase what he can do in a prominent role and earn himself a much better contract next year, it isn't as RB3 on our roster. He'll need to go somewhere else. He's a good player at a crowded position that wants to make the most out of this season to secure a better contract for himself.

 

I realize why he is making the trade request.

 

What I mean is, I just hope other players see that as such, and don't follow suit. 

[TimetobringDfence!]

15 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

I realize why he is making the trade request.

 

What I mean is, I just hope other players see that as such, and don't follow suit. 

I'm scared we keep on playing Wentz injured out of desperation for a win, he will end up lost for the year. If that happens this squad unravels.

[EastStreet]

13 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

I'm scared we keep on playing Wentz injured out of desperation for a win, he will end up lost for the year. If that happens this squad unravels....Luck was a huge part of players coming in and playing their hearts out cause they could win. Rivers could win. When you aren't winning and there are no signs of a healthy QB around players feelings and work ethic change. 

 

You have to think Wentz is having flashbacks of Philly lol.

Bad OL, 2 presumed starting WRs not a factor. 

And this last weekend you have someone in the FO taking shots at him. 

 

You'd think players are behind him. We saw the interactions this summer in external practice sessions, and the guy is playing hurt. IMO they'll play for him. 

 

OL will get better, and the O will be fine. Just not so sure about the D.

 

 

 

 

[Zoltan]

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

And this last weekend you have someone in the FO taking shots at him. 

 

 

I'm curious, Where did you see/hear that? 

[Shive]

8 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

I'm curious, Where did you see/hear that? 

I'm assuming he's talking about Irsay's comment about Wentz being unvaccinated.

 

On that note, let's get this back to the topic of Mack and not turn this into another Wentz/vaccination thread.

[richard pallo]

The Patriots just found out they are losing James White for the season.  He’s been there go to guy at running back for some time now in passing downs.  Would Ballard trade Mack to the Pats or is that bridge burned?

[MPStack]

14 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

The Patriots just found out they are losing James White for the season.  He’s been there go to guy at running back for some time now in passing downs.  Would Ballard trade Mack to the Pats or is that bridge burned?

Why not, but like you said, White is used in passing situations. That’s not Mack’s strength ,more like his weakness.  

[PrincetonTiger]

1 hour ago, MPStack said:

Why not, but like you said, White is used in passing situations. That’s not Mack’s strength ,more like his weakness.  

One big reason Hines passed him by

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

The Patriots just found out they are losing James White for the season.  He’s been there go to guy at running back for some time now in passing downs.  Would Ballard trade Mack to the Pats or is that bridge burned?

Mack has 55 career receptions and is coming off an achilles tear. 

 

James White has 381 career receptions.   

 

They don't do the same things

[krunk]

Right when you go to trade Mack, Taylor comes up on the list with a knee injury. I know its not serious but a small sign to me.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

never mind 

[TimetobringDfence!]

What about Mack to the Cowboys for Malik Hooker back?

[Shive]

15 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

What about Mack to the Cowboys for Malik Hooker back?

[Smoke317]

Are there any tight ends that we could get?  Maybe pair Mack & Doyle or Mack and someone else in a trade for a tight end that Wentz can make his primary?   Ertz was over 100 targets most years with Wentz.  It could help Wentz improve much quicker.

[TimetobringDfence!]

12 minutes ago, Shive said:

A CB to replace Carrie...lol I just have a hunch Hooker gonna kill it in Dallas.

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

Are there any tight ends that we could get?  Maybe pair Mack & Doyle or Mack and someone else in a trade for a tight end that Wentz can make his primary?   Ertz was over 100 targets most years with Wentz.  It could help Wentz improve much quicker.

Why hasn't Granson been playing, is he injured. That is puzzling.

[TimetobringDfence!]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Why hasn't Granson been playing, is he injured. That is puzzling.

He gots a case of the drops. Maybe use him in the screen game with that speed but that's about it. He dropped a lot balls in camp and preseason. So imagine he does it at practice too. My best guess.

[Zoltan]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Why hasn't Granson been playing, is he injured. That is puzzling.

TE is a hard transition to the NFL, even travis kelce only played in 1 game his rookie year not saying he will be even half the TE Kelce is.

[WoolMagnet]

Been bothered by this.  I really like Mack.  He played well when healthy, and was a team guy when we brought in Taylor.  
  I guess it comes down to the facts.  Taylor is #1 and not going anywhere.  NH just got paid and makes things happen.  I guess it makes sense that Mack and Wilkins wont be here after this year.  Mack should get a better offer than we can justify and some team may value Wilkins.  We just cant spend there.  What worries me is if JT goes down for a little, i’m not as enthused about Hines and Wilkins.

  I understand the other factors, but its money “spent” and we have some serious depth.  With the injuries at WR and OL, and a hobbled QB, i’d think that is pretty darn important.

  Ask NE how they feel about trading a RB (similar situation) a week after they did it.

  Now, if someone is deep at CB, and has one that can help us, then i’m all for that.  But a 6th rd pick to lose that depth at possibly your biggest position of strength, at a position you really need to count on?  
  It just feels like a bad move.

 

(and i get Mack may wanna leave, but he’s signed, and the Colts had his back thru injuries.  He’ll get paid soon enuff.)

[DougDew]

IMO, Mack's value to any team, including the Colts, was always limited.  He's mainly a straight a head runner that isn't particularly big or pile moving for a straight ahead runner.  (I think he could be used in space too, but that does not appear to be how Frank wants to use his bell cow.)

 

He is strictly a back up to bell cow JT.  And since he does not play special teams, Mack has probably lost that backup battle to Wilkins.

 

I don't see much value here.  Never did, frankly.

 

A team would want to give up a draft pick only if they saw untapped potential that Frank never utilized, and figured that multiple teams saw it too.  Looks like a cut/release or Mack hangs on and goes elsewhere next season.

[The Fish]

He popped his ACL, just because it's technically healed doesn't mean Mack is the same runner yet- if anything, if he's going to be the same guy again, it probably happens next year (generic timeline that's been observed). For his sake, given that his injury really did cost him more cash than most of us can even begin to imagine- lets hope he gets it back, but I'm sorta confused why we're missing this part of the story.

I don't see this as a terribly relevant part of the Colts mellow drama right now. Get a pick, let him walk, give him carries- the macro situation isn't changing.