Reasonable QB Strategy if Wentz is out: Discussion and Poll

[Myles]

31 minutes ago, Nickster said:

JB was horrible Sunday.  No thank you.  We know he sucks.  Maybe Eason doesn't?

Yep.   Why go with a commodity that you already know isn't good instead of the unknown?   

[Nickster]

2 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

I’m fine with putting the pass on Doyle.  But he can’t pump it and pull it down and not know where to go next with it.  Plus I love Doyle, but judging from how the defense was aligned and there was never a defender within 6 yards of Pittman on the play, the first read should have been throwing it to the guy (my number 1 receiver) who they have decided not to cover.  I feel bad for Wentz because he probably needs time to improve on some things under live fire but he keeps getting injured. 

Just check it out presnap.  #58 is on the LOS.  He can easily drop flat in the slant lane, and that is probably his resposibility.  He is following CWs eyes somewhat toward the middle, but he is on one hash and Doyle is on one hash on a 5 yd pass.  No chance to defend the pass to Doyle.  

 

CW looks over at the OLB right before the snap too.  

[Smoke317]

8 minutes ago, Nickster said:

And he is just so open.  The OLB #58 was walked up on the line, making this an easy play if CW throws it.  The OLB can easily drop flat there and intercept or bat down any slant to Pittman.  Pittman appears open but is not pre snap or post snap.  Pre snap with the LB walked up makes the play to Doyle, and it appears that CW just kinda freezes.  

 

It looks like he might have even audibled to Doyle with the OLB walked up.  

 

Either way, it was a good play call, and dude was open and CW missed him.  

I think the walked up linebacker to our O’s left side was the defender to beat.  If he drops outside to cover Pittman, you hit Doyle.  If he drops to the middle towards Doyle, you hit Pittman on the slant.  He clearly was following Wentz’ eyes to Doyle.  His momentum was carrying him towards the middle, Wentz should’ve hit the quick slant to Pittman in the area the defender had just vacated.  Easy money.  If he wanted Doyle (like it seems he clearly did), he had to get it on him immediately because the defender was clearly reading his eyes. 

[Nickster]

3 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

I think the walked up linebacker to our O’s left side was the defender to beat.  If he drops outside to cover Pittman, you hit Doyle.  If he drops to the middle towards Doyle, you hit Pittman on the slant.  He clearly was following Wentz’ eyes to Doyle.  His momentum was carrying him towards the middle, Wentz should’ve hit the quick slant to Pittman in the area the defense service had  just vacated.  Easy money.  

We will have to agree to disagree there, but it would be unusual to throw that slant with a LB lurking in the flat, and he had no time to go through progressions but the 1st read was open.

 

Defending a slant in zone doesn't mean the LB has to be "close" to Pittman, he just needs to be in the throwing lane which he clearly is, IMO. 

 

[PRnum1]

57 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The thing some in here including @EastStreetdon't seem to grasp is, Wentz has had guys wide open on these 4th down plays and didn't adjust. They just blame Frank for the play call. Any QB that can see the field would improvise and throw it to the wide open guy despite the play call. Last week he had Hines wide open on that 4th down play but took a sack. It is all Frank's fault though 

Hate to say it but Wentz is doing the same stuff he did his last year in Philly.

 

He's hesitant and holding the ball to long and taking a beating and sacks.

Hes got to read the open WR and make a decision in 1 sec (on a blitz) and let the ball fly.

 

Then when he starts hitting those routes, they won't blitz as much but he has to burn them first.  Then they will sit back in coverage.

 

Right now, they are in an all out blitz, and its working.

[ColtV]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Most people voted stay the course, that means you literally don't care about this season and want that 1st round pick. I understand that approach, this is going to be a long season. 

True, but I just dont see what other options are available at this point. Even if you can get Mineshew or Nick Foles, their respective teams would make us pay for them(and i'm not sold that either is really available). It would be tough to stomach a bad season certainly, but giving up lets say a 3rd round pick for either sounds absolutely horrible too. 

[CanuckColt]

4 hours ago, EastStreet said:

If he's available, not sailed. He's as good as any FA not named Cam that's left.

Knows the system, and cheap.

I know and agree, but he must have done something really bad to get released.

Reich was able to get him to settle down and play some good ball...maybe he has matured enough to play again. He has been an excellent QB on the field but a loose cannon off the field. His has a big arm, as good as Eason's, but with better touch and accuracy. It's a shame to see such talent go to waste.

[jshipp23]

Call Rivers beg him to comeback, otherwise tank and draft best QB...Prefer tanking at this point..

[PRnum1]

14 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I picked stay the course with Eason for both.

 

I would be tempted to offer Philly a 6th (what could be our comp pick) for Minshew (which is what they gave Jax).

 

I'd also sign Chad Kelly back to the PS after elevating Hundley. 

I would not trade any more pics for QB's, but go with what we have.

 

Minshew is tempting but they would want a 6th for him at least and we can turn that 6th into a good player.

 

So Minshew and Foles are out.

 

Go with Eason or Sam.

 

Another QB which you could pick up for nothing is Jake Fromm.  I would love for him be brought into the mix.  You could just pick him up off the Bills PS for nothing.

 

One worse case scenario with Wentz is that if he leads us to 5-12 record, plays all the games, then we give our number 5 overall pick to the Eagles for nothing.

 

Ballard/Reich have to make sure that does not happen.

[Myles]

I was high on bringing in Rosen and Darnold to compete.  Wish we had one now.

[Four2itus]

5 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 There is NO culpability. QB's running as part of the offense is a standard.
 That Carson's leg whipped like it D falls on him if anything, but **** happens!
   It's a shame. He played very well, exceeded a lot of people's expectations i'm sure.
 I would love to have our 1st round pick next year and draft 10th or better. And starting 1-4 would not have been a surprise to many considering our schedule.
 Miami is going to be fun with Brissett as the starter.
 Pittman did what should be there week in and week out.
 Doyle did good. We MUST get our running game going. I guess i'm missing Castonzo!!
 Fisher was pretty good though considering all things.

 

5 hours ago, Chucklez said:

I think we can all agree that what we have seen from Wentz so far has seemed good. Good enough that we dont want to trade for yet another "starter" until he is back - that would be a waste of draft capital.

We have to believe in our backups, that is why they are our backups and not on the street. It isnt ideal, but it is what it is....

Despite being 0 - 2, this season isnt over. IF Wentz can go, i believe in this team to give the Titans a run for their money next week, and if we win that game, at 1 - 2 with a head to head tine over the titans we are actually in a decent spot, with a Dolphins team coming up with many of their own questions and then a backend of the schedule that is very favorable.

If Wentz is out, then we have to roll with Eason and hope he can get more prepared and schemed around for the Titans game. 


Equally, if we lose to the Titans and go 0 - 3, it isn't over just yet.... but it definitely doesnt bode well. Regardless of what happens, i'll be tuning in and watching the Colts every week. I think most of us on here suffered through the Curtis Painter / Dav Orlovsky year in 2011.... we can deal with this year too. There is always next year if this season gets away from us,

Thank you both for your solid posts. 

[csmopar]

15 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Reasonable QB Strategy if Wentz is out (short or long term poll Qs)

 

What should we do

 

You can find the list of current FAs here

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2021/all/quarterback/available/

Eason all the way

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Something to think about if Eason plays. We have all wanted to see a more spread offense. If Reich actually has a game plan catered to Eason we might actually see a more spread offense like he had in college.

[AustexColt]

Honestly, the issue is seriously wrong and this locker room is over stated. The players think that they have the capabilities to win 11 in a row like last year. They are dead wrong. One, it was Covid and they had Phillip Rivers. Two, they have a harder schedule. So I say play Eason and shelf Wentz to protect your 1st pick. Winter is coming and Hedge against the Covid NFL rules. Unfortunately it will all be captured on Hard Knocks. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Lots of good stuff here from JACK Doyle if Eason has to play. He sounds confident in him and mentions how much he has grown.

 

 

[Dingus McGirt]

6 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

Holder and Keefer are saying colts should of kept Jacoby lol.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda.  I say THEY should shut up.  Couple of hacks.

[craigerb]

8 hours ago, Nickster said:

OLB is following CWs eyes somewhat toward the middle 

If an OLB can follow our QB's eyes (which I doubt), it's time for a tinted face shield.

[TimetobringDfence!]

6 hours ago, csmopar said:

Eason all the way

Chad Kelly needs resigned. If you watch his tape he is way better than Eason and it's not close. He has velocity and touch, a quick release, strong arm, is a deadly scrambler. He is faster than any QB besides Lamar. Watch his preseason highlight tape and tell me you wouldn't want that play over Easons.

[JediXMan]

4 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

Lots of good stuff here from JACK Doyle if Eason has to play. He sounds confident in him and mentions how much he has grown.

 

 

He still has a lot to learn. Wentz was smart enough to barely target Ramsey all game. Eason targeted him twice with one being a pick. 

[EastStreet]

10 hours ago, Nickster said:

I'd be really surprised if this play wasn't to Doyle.  He's wide open and there is no OLB off the LOS on the right side of the formation which makes it really easy to slide in where Doyle did.  He looks right at Doyle and decides not to throw.  He wasn't looking at other guys because they hadn't come out of their breaks yet.  He should have made this play, IMO.

 

For a guy who doesn't really want to talk about this play, you seem to be talking about it a lot.  

 

I agree he's probably and well should be gun shy, but nonetheless, looking at this again, it was an excellent play call that should have been completed for a 1st.

For a guy who agrees he's been pummeled all game, and should be gun shy, and actually gets hammered on this play too (would have been hammered even if he made the pass), you're really holding a guy to an extremely high level of expectation who only had one game under his belt with a new team, scheme, and pass catchers.

[EastStreet]

10 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The thing some in here including @EastStreetdon't seem to grasp is, Wentz has had guys wide open on these 4th down plays and didn't adjust. They just blame Frank for the play call. Any QB that can see the field would improvise and throw it to the wide open guy despite the play call. Last week he had Hines wide open on that 4th down play but took a sack. It is all Frank's fault though 

 

Guess we should all blame Frank then for bringing in a QB that can't hit WRs? 

Can't have it both ways lol

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Guess we should all blame Frank then for bringing in a QB that can't hit WRs? 

Can't have it both ways lol

Wentz has actually played above average as I posted on another thread, I just don't think he is reading the field well at times. Maybe as the season goes on his chemistry with the WR's will get better.

[EastStreet]

9 hours ago, CanuckColt said:

I know and agree, but he must have done something really bad to get released.

Reich was able to get him to settle down and play some good ball...maybe he has matured enough to play again. He has been an excellent QB on the field but a loose cannon off the field. His has a big arm, as good as Eason's, but with better touch and accuracy. It's a shame to see such talent go to waste.

Per the FO, he was doing fine. Not sure if he did something again or what...

But nothing at all that went public.

[EastStreet]

9 hours ago, PRnum1 said:

I would not trade any more pics for QB's, but go with what we have.

 

Minshew is tempting but they would want a 6th for him at least and we can turn that 6th into a good player.

 

So Minshew and Foles are out.

 

Go with Eason or Sam.

 

Another QB which you could pick up for nothing is Jake Fromm.  I would love for him be brought into the mix.  You could just pick him up off the Bills PS for nothing.

 

One worse case scenario with Wentz is that if he leads us to 5-12 record, plays all the games, then we give our number 5 overall pick to the Eagles for nothing.

 

Ballard/Reich have to make sure that does not happen.

I have zero problem using a 6th if we'd actually use whomever we grabbed. 6ths are pure dice rolls. Heck, we just released the guy we used a 5th on.

 

Like I said, I'm fine with sinking or swimming with Eason. Sam, nope. Way too many limitations and just a lower ceiling. He's fine for a package or backup, but don't want to suffer a season with him. Eason at least has the raw traits perhaps to develop (even if a longshot). 

 

I've watched Fromm play so much in college. TV and in person between the hedges. He's just not that good. He's good as college game manager with an A+ run game, but that's it. UGA folks are still butt hurt they let not one, but two great QBs leave so they could stick with Fromm. He simply fit what the OC wanted to do with their rushing O. 

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I have zero problem using a 6th if we'd actually use whomever we grabbed. 6ths are pure dice rolls. Heck, we just released the guy we used a 5th on.

 

Like I said, I'm fine with sinking or swimming with Eason. Sam, nope. Way too many limitations and just a lower ceiling. He's fine for a package or backup, but don't want to suffer a season with him. Eason at least has the raw traits perhaps to develop (even if a longshot). 

 

I've watched Fromm play so much in college. TV and in person between the hedges. He's just not that good. He's good as college game manager with an A+ run game, but that's it. UGA folks are still butt hurt they let not one, but two great QBs leave so they could stick with Fromm. He simply fit what the OC wanted to do with their rushing O. 

 

 

Earlier today I was too hard on Eason, if he plays next week I am willing to give him a fair chance before I get critical of him again. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

12 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Earlier today I was too hard on Eason, if he plays next week I am willing to give him a fair chance before I get critical of him again. 

I think we all need to just wait and see what happens. After the game we can be critical if he is bad. We have nothing you go on.  Heck like Reich said today Wentz is a fast healer maybe he plays.  

[EastStreet]

24 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Wentz has actually played above average as I posted on another thread, I just don't think he is reading the field well at times. Maybe as the season goes on his chemistry with the WR's will get better.

 

he. was. in. game. two. in. a. new. scheme. with. new. pass. catchers.....

he. was. getting. pounded. the. second. game. in. a. row.

 

expectations should be set accordingly... and he's surpassed mine.

 

and my tongue and cheek response to the earlier post was sarcasm, but anyway you spin it, Reich is on the hook here.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Wentzszn said:

I think we all need to just wait and see what happens. After the game we can be critical if he is bad. We have nothing you go on.  Heck like Reich said today Wentz is a fast healer maybe he plays.  

Yeah luckily Wentz only had a sprain ankle out of it, soak it and see what happens. In order to beat the Titans I think we will need him. I was just frustrated the way game ended yesterday.

[EastStreet]

17 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Earlier today I was too hard on Eason, if he plays next week I am willing to give him a fair chance before I get critical of him again. 

I don't think he'll be the second coming. I have no dilustion.

if he had a good OL, he could be a small step up from JB. 

he doesn't have that OL right now, so I think he'll likely be bad vs good teams, decent vs bad teams. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah luckily Wentz only had a sprain ankle out of it, soak it and see what happens. In order to beat the Titans I think we will need him. I was just frustrated the way game ended yesterday.

He easily could have fractured it like Turay and be done. It could of been a lot worse. We need to score a tim to beat the Titans. Not even sure with Wentz we would be able to do that. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

he. was. in. game. two. in. a. new. scheme. with. new. pass. catchers.....

he. was. getting. pounded. the. second. game. in. a. row.

 

expectations should be set accordingly... and he's surpassed mine.

 

and my tongue and cheek response to the earlier post was sarcasm, but anyway you spin it, Reich is on the hook here.

Not disagreeing about the part about Reich being on the hook regarding wanting Wentz, I think Reich is the reason that Ballard traded for him. You and I agreed on that last month. I just think blaming Reich for every little thing is wrong. He is the coach so get it but we have many other problems as well. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I don't think he'll be the second coming. I have no dilustion.

if he had a good OL, he could be a small step up from JB. 

he doesn't have that OL right now, so I think he'll likely be bad vs good teams, decent vs bad teams. 

Sunday may be the first game where the entire five play together if smith is back. Like you I don’t have high expectations because that would be silly. But he deserves a let’s wait and see what happens.

[2006Coltsbestever]

We even gave the defense the lead at 21-17 and they couldn't hold it, the Rams when they fell behind just shredded our D. Eberflus is doing a bad job so far this season IMO.

[EastStreet]

8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Not disagreeing about the part about Reich being on the hook regarding wanting Wentz, I think Reich is the reason that Ballard traded for him. You and I agreed on that last month. I just think blaming Reich for every little thing is wrong. He is the coach so get it but we have many other problems as well. 

Those plays are successful if our OL is near early 2020 level. But it's not, and where they are now, is crystal clear to everyone. That's my primary issue.

[EastStreet]

7 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

Sunday may be the first game where the entire five play together if smith is back. Like you I don’t have high expectations because that would be silly. But he deserves a let’s wait and see what happens.

He absolutely deserves a chance, and a little patience. 

But most of all, folks need to temper their expectations.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

15 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

He absolutely deserves a chance, and a little patience. 

But most of all, folks need to temper their expectations.

I don’t have expectations. I am not really seeing any of that. Here is what I am excited for. We have been complaining a lot about tight formations and not spreading the offense out. If Reich develops the right game plan for him we might see some of that. We saw it in the preseason.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

25 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We even gave the defense the lead at 21-17 and they couldn't hold it, the Rams when they fell behind just shredded our D. Eberflus is doing a bad job so far this season IMO.

I thought overall the defense only allowing ten points the first half was great.  They played well enough to win. But when we took the lead after that punt that is when they have to hold them. Offense left so many points on the board the first have we should of had a comfortable lead at halftime. Defense did their job most of the game.

[EastStreet]

9 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

I don’t have expectations. I am not really seeing any of that. Here is what I am excited for. We have been complaining a lot about tight formations and not spreading the offense out. If Reich develops the right game plan for him we might see some of that. We saw it in the preseason.

Not really speaking to you about expectations. Just making a point. 

Those who are "high" on him, and those who are "low".. 

 

My personal view is medium, and my opinion on the overall strategy is impacted by my acceptance to let him make mistakes, and also thinking of draft position and cap (not willing to spend capital on meager improvement, and preference of a higher spot if we tank).

[Four2itus]

12 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Most people voted stay the course, that means you literally don't care about this season and want that 1st round pick. I understand that approach, this is going to be a long season. 

Sorry, but your generalization is really divisive. I want to see Eason......and I absolutely care about this season. How else in the heck do the Colts see what Eason is about without this excellent opportunity? No offense, because I appreciate your contributions to the board, but for me.....being a fan of a team does not mean that everything is black and white. There are many shades of gray between "All in", and "The season is a loss". Every game, every quarter, every play....is an evaluation for the future. If every time a team gets challenged with hardships....the GM goes and spends money to "Get" a player, he loses the opportunity to evaluate the talent already here. I know that some fans want black or white, but for the GM, it's rarely that cut and dried. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

12 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

Sorry, but your generalization is really divisive. I want to see Eason......and I absolutely care about this season. How else in the heck do the Colts see what Eason is about without this excellent opportunity? No offense, because I appreciate your contributions to the board, but for me.....being a fan of a team does not mean that everything is black and white. There are many shades of gray between "All in", and "The season is a loss". Every game, every quarter, every play....is an evaluation for the future. If every time a team gets challenged with hardships....the GM goes and spends money to "Get" a player, he loses the opportunity to evaluate the talent already here. I know that some fans want black or white, but for the GM, it's rarely that cut and dried. 

That is a fair post. If Eason does play we are about to find out a lot so I am ok with it. I was just frustrated how the game ended yesterday.