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Or is it time to REALLY look at Reich


bluephantom87
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19 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

Well he did give two interviews before the game Sunday and flat out said the playbook wouldn’t be all the way open. In one he said he wanted to keep wenhz in the pocket as much as possible.

Sounds like HC who figured his team was not really ready to play.  Wonder why.

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Just now, DougDew said:

Sounds like HC who figured his team was not really ready to play.  Wonder why.

It’s perfectly understandable with all the missed camp. Question is how long will it take to see the entire playbook. By week 3 or 4? Hopefully by then Wentz foot is 100%. 

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Just now, Wentzszn said:

It’s perfectly understandable with all the missed camp. Question is how long will it take to see the entire playbook. By week 3 or 4? Hopefully by then Wentz foot is 100%. 

The foot needs to be tested for sure. 

 

Frank probably felt like he didn't have an LT, and his oline didn't have time to practice together much. 

 

I think Frank is a conservative coach, but I also think he doesn't have a lot of confidence in the personnel, going all the way back to the JB year.

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1 hour ago, chad72 said:


On the other hand, Nick Sirianni looked really good with multiple RB formations used in tandem with a QB like Hurts, plenty of motion with WRs and split TEs, and ample RPO options for Hurts too.

Wouldnt surprise me if Brady is sharp as well. Andy Reid gave up the duties to Matt Nagy and it worked well that 1 year. Frank doesnt seem interested though.

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33 minutes ago, DougDew said:

The foot needs to be tested for sure. 

 

Frank probably felt like he didn't have an LT, and his oline didn't have time to practice together much. 

 

I think Frank is a conservative coach, but I also think he doesn't have a lot of confidence in the personnel, going all the way back to the JB year.

After Sunday’s game gets more in the rear view mirror I am not as mad about Sunday because everything does need to be put in perspective. I have just reset expectations. Hopefully Fisher comes back Sunday and that is the start of things pointing upward.  There is no excuse now because Reich has his QB. I mean even the one he helped scout and draft.

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57 minutes ago, DougDew said:

But despite the data mining, he's still defining the standard he measures teams against.  

 

It sounds like the Colts run the ball more than the standard expects them too.

 

Isn't that what we're all saying?  That the Colts are more conservative than other teams.  

 

We are the team that kept a non pile driving non catching RB as its #1 RB for three years....gladly, apparently...to run through creases the oline provided.  Conservative offense is the implicit expectation we should be working with here, IMO. 

Yep, that was what I was saying... we have conservative playcalling with lots of rushing attempts. 

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24 minutes ago, stitches said:

Yep, that was what I was saying... we have conservative playcalling with lots of rushing attempts. 

Its because that's what the personnel are suited for ever since we got the oline muscle and Luck retired. 

 

With our personnel, the analytics say run the ball more so than other NFL teams.   

 

That's the way it will be until we get Frank's Move TE and deep threat to compete in the way other playoff teams compete. 

 

We probably have the QB now.

 

So expect continuation of conservative, don't complain about it, would be my advice.

 

If you don't want Hines up the middle....and I'm the guy who'd be happy to never see him take a handoff.... I can see complaining about Frank.  He's not perfect.

 

He strikes me as a guy who overthinks things.  Relies upon personnel packages for specific situations. Odds cheat sheets instead of eyeball evaluation of game flow.   If he doesn't have the player he needs for the package he wants, it limits what he thinks the offense is capable of doing. 

 

Where is Gransen?  Not ready yet apparently.

 

But data mining, analytics, and overthinking the simple is the trend these days, so I don't get some of the complaints because it strikes me that that's exactly what Frank does.

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4 hours ago, John Hammonds said:

It's true.  Frank Reich is not Andy Reid.  Nor Bill Belichick.

He's also not Adam Gase, either.  And thank goodness for that!

 

He's a fair to good coach, whose leadership skills outweigh his playcalling skills.

Could we have a better coach?  Sure.

Could we have a far worse coach?  Oh, yeah.

 

I'll keep the bird in the hand for now, rather than pining for the two in the bush.

To me its more about him handling the offense. He is a really good man and coach.

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12 minutes ago, IrsaysArmy said:

Unpopular opinion. Time for Jack Doyle to go. Not really a huge fan of Allie-Cox either. I just don’t see it with them. Not one bit.explosive 

There are very few truly "explosive" TEs, and the TE job is more than just being explosive. 

Doyle wasn't bad yesterday going 3/4. MAC only got two targets and both passes were iffy.

The routes they get are very very limited these days.

Go back and look at MAC's routes and catches from the MN game last year. It's more indicative of his ability. Right now he's limited by Reich and the routes he's allowed to run.

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5 hours ago, bluephantom87 said:

 

First off Frank is a first time hc so he will make some overall COACHING mistakes that he will learn from such as when to take the points or go for it based on the flow of the game. I never said I didn't want him as hc, I said he needs to give up the playcalling. As of now I like Frank as hc his players seem to respect, like and play to their abilities for him. As far as looking for another team NO the Colts are my team ride or die! If you believe NOTHING can be questioned about the Colts then either stay off the MB that discusses Colts football or stay away from topics that that might step on your sensitive toes.

Hasn't he been here long enough to stop the first time HC thing? If he hasn't gotten it by now, what makes anyone think that he ever will.

 

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Frank is ultimately responsible for the entire team (players and coaches) came out FLAT for the season opener. Luckily the Titans did the same. It was a non conference game and basically we came out without much injuries. I will say that if we play as poorly against the Titans, Frank will be in HOT waters.

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29 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

Doyle blocked like a mutha on Sunday. 

Which is the main reason he’s here.  People keep knocking him for not stretching the field but that’s not who he is.  Ballard made it known early in the off-season they were looking for that kind of tightend.  That’s why Granson was drafted because he showed the skill set in college to be that kind of tightend.

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10 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Just spoke to my best bud back in Indy. 

 

He said Indy radio has been drop kicking Frank a bunch. 

 

Anyone hear anything specific on the way home today?

I only listen to the podcasts after the shows  are over. Not sure they have been harsh but they have raised the question about his play calling and decisions. Kevin  Bowen has talked some about it. You can listen to all the shows in full on apple or Spotify if you want. They are time stamped with a description of what each segment is about. Super easy to listen to what you want or find specific segments. Kevin’s morning show, Dan Dakich, and JMV are on there.

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20 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

I only listen to the podcasts after the shows  are over. Not sure they have been harsh but they have raised the question about his play calling and decisions. Kevin  Bowen has talked some about it. You can listen to all the shows in full on apple or Spotify if you want. They are time stamped with a description of what each segment is about. Super easy to listen to what you want or find specific segments. Kevin’s morning show, Dan Dakich, and JMV are on there.

I just normally listen to the ones from the 1070 website, and a few others sproadically.

I listened to the one you mentioned yesterday.

Might try to find one from today.

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1 hour ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

Hasn't he been here long enough to stop the first time HC thing? If he hasn't gotten it by now, what makes anyone think that he ever will.

 

 

That was me being generous because I like Frank but I hope the mistakes are not because he's stubborn and NOT willing to change.

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The issues I’ve had with Reich are not new. They never change and I’m starting to just accept that they never will. It’s just part of having Frank. I think others are starting to feel the same. 
 

This is it, how far can we go with it? 

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1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

I just normally listen to the ones from the 1070 website, and a few others sproadically.

I listened to the one you mentioned yesterday.

Might try to find one from today.

Yeah all those are on the fan. I have heard some questioning of Reich but nothing harsh.

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6 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

After Sunday’s game gets more in the rear view mirror I am not as mad about Sunday because everything does need to be put in perspective. I have just reset expectations. Hopefully Fisher comes back Sunday and that is the start of things pointing upward.  There is no excuse now because Reich has his QB. I mean even the one he helped scout and draft.

I re-watched the game and we moved the ball well on a few drives in the first half, just didn’t finish in the red zone. In the 2nd half it looked like Seattle’s D just started attacking more and was smothering our offense.  I think with another week of practice hopefully that helps our offense gel and our defense get some things corrected.

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13 hours ago, DougDew said:

The foot needs to be tested for sure. 

 

Frank probably felt like he didn't have an LT, and his oline didn't have time to practice together much. 

 

I think Frank is a conservative coach, but I also think he doesn't have a lot of confidence in the personnel, going all the way back to the JB year.

I think personnel is the key.  We don’t have the coverage players to do much on D, and we don’t have the skill pass catchers to do much on O.  The lack of dynamic personnel limits what can be done from a play calling perspective.

 

We played aggressively in the 1st half and got burned and basically played more base and somewhat better in the 2nd if I remember right.  All of our skill players are 1 dimensional IMO.  I think the team needs more dynamic athletes to be able to effectively utilize any playbook.

 

Sunday was always going to be hard. Frank and the staff has basically had to coach the team lockdown style.  Guys looking at IPads rather than practice reps together.  I would have been pretty surprised to see CW pull a Dak.  Rams will be tough.  Our camp was pretty worthless.  It is going to take a while.

 

it’s probably not even worth putting Wentz in if we can’t block any better than Sunday.  Smiths health is crucial.  There are no play calls that can deal with the dominance 1 on 1 by their pass rushers.

 

I don’t really feel we’ve had a situation where creativity is all that available to the staff because of mismatched or under talented personnel.

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19 hours ago, John Hammonds said:

It's true.  Frank Reich is not Andy Reid.  Nor Bill Belichick.

He's also not Adam Gase, either.  And thank goodness for that!

 

He's a fair to good coach, whose leadership skills outweigh his playcalling skills.

Could we have a better coach?  Sure.

Could we have a far worse coach?  Oh, yeah.

 

I'll keep the bird in the hand for now, rather than pining for the two in the bush.

Hmmm.  As the offensive play-caller - being a fair to good coach with leadership ability "outweighs" one's play-calling skill?  

I have to disagree.

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The loss Sunday was much more about talent, players getting physically beaten consistently, and if Reich is conservative, with Brissett and Rivers, he's had to be.  Had he let Brissett loose, you're looking at 3-13.  Had 39 year old Phil not been managed, many more games would have been thrown away like week 1 in Jacksonville.  Against Seattle, the protection was so poor, what could you do?  That said, Reich has certainly had some bad games, play calling wise.  A few of games early in the season with Luck were horrible.  

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19 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

 

 

The knives seem to be coming out more and more. He's getting pelted by a lot of media too. And frankly, that's where things start to go down hill. He needs to show something this year IMO. I don't want him gone. If things don't work out this year, I'd rather see him simply give up play calling, than be fired.

 

  • Things I really like about Reich
    • Great "guy". Honest, loyal, kind, etc. Phenomenal face for the team
    • Good people person, seems to manage the personalities well
  • Narratives that are silly to me
    • He's a QB whisperer.... he's probably a better QB coach than play caller, but the narrative itself is tired. There isn't a whole lot of data showing QB improvement that can't be accounted for by improved OL, and conservative scheme.
    • He's an offensive genius.... He wasn't great with the Chargers, and he didn't call plays in Philly.
  • Things that drive me nuts
    • At times, lack of team preparation.
      • The opening losses (not solely a Reich problem)
      • Bad decisions like not giving Hoyer 1st team reps all week when there was a decent chance he's start
    • Going totally against the grain, or against simple logic/common-sense at times with game plans, like going air raid all game vs teams that had bottom tier run-Ds. Then next week not throwing vs bad pass Ds... 
    • Stale and/or conservative offense. We play a bend don't break D, but we play an O that feels like it's bend don't break too lol. Feels like rinse/repeat. I'm all for rinse/repeat is it works well. But when it doesn't, need to see less repeat.
    • Stubbornness. I don't know if it's stubbornness, or just inability to adjust well. Either way, doesn't matter.
    • No feel for the game. Analytics are great, but there has to be a human ingredient on calls. There examples of this are growing, and he doesn't seem to be learning.
    • Misc
      • Running your APB up the gut on short yardage and goal line situations... Once in a while is fine to keep teams honest, but just use your power back (who by the way can also catch)... 
      • Forgetting quickly about things that worked very very well. Like the sail routes to MAC in the MN game last year. Doesn't have to be MAC, but lets see the route.
  • The musical chair QB excuse is good excuse, but it runs out this year

 

 

jarred-kjack-siv-red-thistle.gif

 

 

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So many Colts fans are calling out the coaching staff giving AQM so many reps and not enough to Lewis and Rochelle. I really don’t get why they’re so fascinated with him. He over commits on run plays and gives you barely anything against the pass. Is he one of those guys that’s great in practice but meh during the actual games?

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19 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

After Sunday’s game gets more in the rear view mirror I am not as mad about Sunday because everything does need to be put in perspective. I have just reset expectations. Hopefully Fisher comes back Sunday and that is the start of things pointing upward.  There is no excuse now because Reich has his QB. I mean even the one he helped scout and draft.

But the situation Frank is in has been observed by many of us...whether they realize it or not.  As soon as we get the QB, the WR and LT leave.  Back when we had the LT and WR, we had JB at QB.  

 

The defense is still waiting for the young players to advance the play of the defense by performing better than the guys they replaced, Houston and Autry.  Apparently, Flus, Frank, and Ballard have such little confidence in those young players, they gave up pick 21 for another one and pick 54 for a guy who wont even play much this year.  We don't even have a replacement for Rhodes on the roster yet.  And who knows what the plan at S is.  Apparently, we worked out 4 and signed 1 after game 1 with no injuries to the Ss as far as I know.  What does that say about the FOs opinion of the S roster?

 

I think Franks' play calling can be better, and progress in that and the team is what I'm looking for.  But I don't expect the HC to be able to turn lemons into lemonade just by scheme and planning.

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25 minutes ago, JediXMan said:

So many Colts fans are calling out the coaching staff giving AQM so many reps and not enough to Lewis and Rochelle. I really don’t get why they’re so fascinated with him. He over commits on run plays and gives you barely anything against the pass. Is he one of those guys that’s great in practice but meh during the actual games?

AQM is solid against the run, and I believe he plays on ST. 
 

As far as Lewis and Rochelle, I thought they were injured. 

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27 minutes ago, JediXMan said:

So many Colts fans are calling out the coaching staff giving AQM so many reps and not enough to Lewis and Rochelle. I really don’t get why they’re so fascinated with him. He over commits on run plays and gives you barely anything against the pass. Is he one of those guys that’s great in practice but meh during the actual games?

Hopefully Lewis get more snaps this week. He had quite a few Sunday. AQM just had about 20% more. Lewis should be the one with 70% of the snaps. Hopefully Turay is back this week. Eberflus said Banogu only got 6 snaps because he is part of the nascar package and Seattle didn’t have that many third and longs.

2 minutes ago, MPStack said:

AQM is solid against the run, and I believe he plays on ST. 
 

As far as Lewis and Rochelle, I thought they were injured. 

Lewis played about 50% of the snaps. Rochelle was a healthy scratch.

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On 9/14/2021 at 3:19 PM, Wentzszn said:

Plus the center, LG, and QB missed almost all of camp. There is nothing like actual games. Our backup QB took all the snaps in camp. If all of this hadn’t happened things might be different. Then add Wentz is still recovery from foot surgery. I do think it will all come together by mid season. The question is how will the rest of the division be and will we still be able to make the playoffs.

 

Reich has a lot of work with when it comes to Wentz. He showed stuff we haven’t seen from a QB since Luck with his scrambling and running ability.

Many including myself questioned his play calling last year. With C and LG missing almost all of camp and our LT missing all of camp should have been all the more reason to not run your small APB up the middle on 3rd and short.  That was 'second verse same as the first' as he did the same thing all of last year.

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3 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

Many including myself questioned his play calling last year. With C and LG missing almost all of camp and our LT missing all of camp should have been all the more reason to not run your small APB up the middle on 3rd and short.  That was 'second verse same as the first' as he did the same thing all of last year.

 

 Hines ran quite well last season in short yardage. With him in, and in formations that spreads the D, and our All-Pro G, Pro Bowl center, and RG that is a solid run blocker, and Hines as a really good receiver, the surprise of him running is a very good odds play at times.
And Reich knows it!!!  

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FB is still won or lost in the trenches. Doesn't matter how great your QB or skill guys are if you can't win the LOS. Last years SB is a perfect example with KC's oline getting injured and Mahomes and all of his weapons were done. It's not time to start panicking and firing the coach or GM. They just need to get the lines better on both sides of the ball. Sure you can scheme some things to help but it'll only get you so far.

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3 hours ago, Coltsfan98 said:

FB is still won or lost in the trenches. Doesn't matter how great your QB or skill guys are if you can't win the LOS. Last years SB is a perfect example with KC's oline getting injured and Mahomes and all of his weapons were done. It's not time to start panicking and firing the coach or GM. They just need to get the lines better on both sides of the ball. Sure you can scheme some things to help but it'll only get you so far.

How good do the trenches need to be?  Do you mean get better, as in all-better, like healthy?  Or better like keep adding better talent? 

 

We just spent pick 21 and 54 on the d trench after using pick 13.  We only have one more trench spot left, and he was signed to a $10M contract IIRC.

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On 9/15/2021 at 5:04 AM, Nickster said:

I think personnel is the key.  We don’t have the coverage players to do much on D, and we don’t have the skill pass catchers to do much on O.  The lack of dynamic personnel limits what can be done from a play calling perspective.

 

We played aggressively in the 1st half and got burned and basically played more base and somewhat better in the 2nd if I remember right.  All of our skill players are 1 dimensional IMO.  I think the team needs more dynamic athletes to be able to effectively utilize any playbook.

 

Sunday was always going to be hard. Frank and the staff has basically had to coach the team lockdown style.  Guys looking at IPads rather than practice reps together.  I would have been pretty surprised to see CW pull a Dak.  Rams will be tough.  Our camp was pretty worthless.  It is going to take a while.

 

it’s probably not even worth putting Wentz in if we can’t block any better than Sunday.  Smiths health is crucial.  There are no play calls that can deal with the dominance 1 on 1 by their pass rushers.

 

I don’t really feel we’ve had a situation where creativity is all that available to the staff because of mismatched or under talented personnel.

We used to use Doyle in the back field on shotgun and split back sets as a blocker slash WR. It helped Luck a lot. I think if we utilize more Multiple TE sets until the line shores up it could help the offense. Frank did well with multiple TEs in Philly.

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20 hours ago, DougDew said:

How good do the trenches need to be?  Do you mean get better, as in all-better, like healthy?  Or better like keep adding better talent? 

 

We just spent pick 21 and 54 on the d trench after using pick 13.  We only have one more trench spot left, and he was signed to a $10M contract IIRC.

By better I mean play better, either get healthy, add talent, whatever it takes. Just spending money and draft capital doesn't always mean you get better. Need to find or hit on the right players.

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On 9/14/2021 at 11:28 AM, Flash7 said:

 

 

 

 

BTW - I like Reich; want him to be the head coach, just give the play calling duties to someone else.

This is a question I had - it looked like Marcus Brady was involved in play-calling this Sunday. Am I wrong? Genuinely curious bc it looked like he was although I was at a bar watching the game with no audio

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31 minutes ago, ColtsBlitz said:

This is a question I had - it looked like Marcus Brady was involved in play-calling this Sunday. Am I wrong? Genuinely curious bc it looked like he was although I was at a bar watching the game with no audio

No they showed him and went out of their way to say Reich called the play.  I think Brady designs the plays and gives Reich suggestions but Frank calls them.  

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