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Jeff Fisher: Did he know? Did he care about Gregg Williams: Keep it a clean debate!


BrentMc11

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I think its fair to say that this has been a case study in lying and thuggery.

Not only do I believe Jeff Fisher knew..... I'm not buying Drew Brees pleading ignorance either.

The Saints GM and Head Coach plus 22-27 of his team mates knew..... and the "face of the franchise" QB claims he didn't?

Pinocchio.jpg

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I think its fair to say that this has been a case study in lying and thuggery.

Not only do I believe Jeff Fisher knew..... I'm not buying Drew Brees pleading ignorance either.

The Saints GM and Head Coach plus 22-27 of his team mates knew..... and the "face of the franchise" QB claims he didn't?

Pinocchio.jpg

Im leaning toward the relization they probably all knew
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I'm leaning toward the realization from listening to players and former players that this is a typical culture in the NFL. Now it's been exposed, and they definitely deserve punishment for not cleaning it up and making it institutionalized. But, I see no point of going backward in time and figuring who did what and who knew what in years past. I don't think any team would turn up completely clean.

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I don't think there is anyway Fisher could not know Williams was like this. If he was coaching with him for so long then there is no way. I guess people can choose to be blind to things or deny them. I think you just have to use common sense here. It saddens me as I used to have respect for Jeff Fisher. I have to believe that Williams did not just start this with the Saints though. I don't care what anyone says. I don't think he was in the NFL this long and just decided to start this then.

As far as Payton and the rest of the Saints. I think they probably did all know. I don't see anyway that they did not. I'm sure Drew wants to cover himself by saying he didn't but come on! How does anyone really believe he didn't? That many players and the coaches, now way he had not heard things or seen things. I don't care if its a defensive thing and Drew is offense. I think it's a bunch of crap people will believe Drew is all innocent in this. He may not have participated in the actual bounty or knew every detail, but I think he definitely knew about it.

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As far as football goes, I love defense! I love seeing good hits and smash mouth in your face defense! I do not agree with this bounty crap though. There is a right way to tackle and play good ball.

Going in with the intent to injure someone is just flat out wrong! You can go in and say I'm gonna hit this guy, he is gonna hurt today, etc. That is not the same thing as this bounty was. Going in thinking I'm going after his head, I'm gonna knock him out. Let's attack his ACL, lets knock him out of a few games maybe a season or forever, that is disgusting IMO. How can you feel o.k. doing that? There is a difference is all I am saying.

I want a good defense. I don't want to see a soft defense. There is a right way to be tough and physical without doing what was done here. I want a legitimate defense. I want players and coaches who have integrity and class. I am glad to be a fan of a team that has just that. I am proud of my team. I feel kinda bad for what Saints fans must be going through.

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I don't see how any of the coaches didn't know. I've seen reports that Joe Gibbs didn't know in Washington and he is more of a CEO type coach as opposed to being hands on so I might give him the benefit of doubt, but Fisher, as fiery as he is and as hands on, I can't believe he didn't know.

Dungy has been on record as saying he believes that the system was in place in Tennessee. For a tame man like Dungy to make such an accusation there has to be a lot of fire behind that smoke.

Another thought: Joe Gibbs racing has been caught cheating numerous times.....not sayin...just sayin.
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its like this in my opinion, when working at any job your responsible for your own job and responsible for knowing what your job description entails,, head bosses at companies cant even tell ya every little word that was said at meetings. why is that? because they have so many other things to worry about, does that mean he didnt know? yes he could have known but to fry the man (fisher in this case) without facts that he knew or was being investigated as well is wrong, should he have been made aware if it happened on his watch ? yes of course cause he is the head coach, but even head coaches cant be in two places at once

Would Fisher say he knew....even when he DOES? Dungy said he believes the bounty system existed in Tennessee...who coached there?
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I am sure he knew what kind of coach Williams was and he likely knew about the previous investigation(s). However I am not convinced that he knew that Williams / Saints were about to be punished - if he had knowledge of that he was about to be tossed out of the league, he'd have never brought him on.

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I am sure he knew what kind of coach Williams was and he likely knew about the previous investigation(s). However I am not convinced that he knew that Williams / Saints were about to be punished - if he had knowledge of that he was about to be tossed out of the league, he'd have never brought him on.

I don't think anyone believed 'initially' the suspensions would be this severe. In fact most were shocked. You are correct that Fisher knew what kind of coach he was.... Great friends for years.
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Would Fisher say he knew....even when he DOES? Dungy said he believes the bounty system existed in Tennessee...who coached there?

]Well Dungy certainly didnt coach their to my knowledge, Dungy seems to be taking guesses at this point, point is believing without proof opens up a can of worms. Do I KNOW if Jeff was in involved in anything in Tennessee, well their is no facts to support any claims that he was. By Dungy saying something like that he knew exactly what he was doing he knows ALOT of people value his every word, thats why he should have kept his mouth shut without PROOF, now maybe Fisher knew something back then, but to fry him without concrete proof like the NFL has concrete proof against Gregg Williams is WRONG, sure investigate how far back it goes investigate Fisher, but dont fry him before the investigation. last I checked it it was innocent till proven guilty, Im not saying hes innocent in all this, but wheres the proof hes guilty?

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Shocked? As soon as the story broke I called for a life time banishment for Williams ... considering all the facts, I don't see how anyone could be shocked with that outcome.

You are correct once we startied finding out all of the info, but initial projections had Payton suspended a handful of games and Williams possibly the year. I am not shocked. I was really referring to the ESPN community immediately following Goodell's 'warranted' suspensions.
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]Well Dungy certainly didnt coach their to my knowledge, Dungy seems to be taking guesses at this point, point is believing without proof opens up a can of worms. Do I KNOW if Jeff was in involved in anything in Tennessee, well their is no facts to support any claims that he was. By Dungy saying something like that he knew exactly what he was doing he knows ALOT of people value his every word, thats why he should have kept his mouth shut without PROOF, now maybe Fisher knew something back then, but to fry him without concrete proof like the NFL has concrete proof against Gregg Williams is WRONG, sure investigate how far back it goes investigate Fisher, but dont fry him before the investigation. last I checked it it was innocent till proven guilty, Im not saying hes innocent in all this, but wheres the proof hes guilty?

Yes. As you know Fisher coached at Tennessee. I mentioned Dungy's comments on Tennessee. Believe me I do not believe every word that everyone says. I am not "frying anyone." I merely state these are very good friends, and the bounty accusations went on how many years? The entire league has 'safety posters' in there facilities. In league meetings there were discussions about what was alleged in New Orleans. I have little question that Fisher did know.

I remember a time when former Colt DL coach was accused of 'dirty DL play" too. It is what it is.

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What are you saying Fisher knows? if he was at the league meetings, yes of course he knows about the whole investigation and the recording but that dont mean he was in on it even if they coached together at Tennessee, once again Williams could have had this going for years and Fisher could have known Williams was doing this but Im waiting for the proof that fisher knew that back then, Williams obviously did a bad thing their is no excuse for that as well as Payton lying to the Commish is no excuse thats a no brainer, their is more to this then whats being said it sounds like, but I am sure this goes back beyond the Williams deal

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What are you saying Fisher knows? if he was at the league meetings, yes of course he knows about the whole investigation and the recording but that dont mean he was in on it even if they coached together at Tennessee, once again Williams could have had this going for years and Fisher could have known Williams was doing this but Im waiting for the proof that fisher knew that back then, Williams obviously did a bad thing their is no excuse for that as well as Payton lying to the Commish is no excuse thats a no brainer, their is more to this then whats being said it sounds like, but I am sure this goes back beyond the Williams deal

In every subsequent press conference Fisher said he did not know about the bounties when hiring Williams. I think we are agreeing...I am not arguing here. That was the title of my post, and everyone agrees the bounties were 'a bad thing.' I wanted everyone's opinion.
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In every subsequent press conference Fisher said he did not know about the bounties when hiring Williams. I think we are agreeing...I am not arguing here. That was the title of my post, and everyone agrees the bounties were 'a bad thing.' I wanted everyone's opinion.

I misunderstood I apologize
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I think its fair to say that this has been a case study in lying and thuggery.

Not only do I believe Jeff Fisher knew..... I'm not buying Drew Brees pleading ignorance either.

The Saints GM and Head Coach plus 22-27 of his team mates knew..... and the "face of the franchise" QB claims he didn't?

Pinocchio.jpgI have looked at this picture 100 times and I still laugh!!!

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Yes. As you know Fisher coached at Tennessee. I mentioned Dungy's comments on Tennessee. Believe me I do not believe every word that everyone says. I am not "frying anyone." I merely state these are very good friends, and the bounty accusations went on how many years? The entire league has 'safety posters' in there facilities. In league meetings there were discussions about what was alleged in New Orleans. I have little question that Fisher did know.

I remember a time when former Colt DL coach was accused of 'dirty DL play" too. It is what it is.

I forgot to type John Teerlink in on this....my bad.
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Do I think Jeff Fisher knows what kind of man Greg Williams is? In my mind without a doubt.

Do I think Jeff Fisher knows what kind of coach Greg Williams is? In my mind wIthout a doubt.

Therefore, of my own accord and for myself, I can draw a likely conclusion that Jeff Fisher was aware that Williams was running a bounty scheme in NO.

All this is based on (in my mind and my mind only) the fact that the two are close friends. So, my common sense says if these two are as close as they say they are, then the topic of what Williams was doing in NO had to come up at some point...I am just thinking about what I talk about with my close friends, which is usually my job, family, and interests. Now, granted I do not have any evidence, so I cannot say beyond a shadow of a doubt that Fisher knew (but I think we all know somewhere in our minds that he knew).

Now, I am NOT saying that punishment should come upon Fisher just due to circumstances and common sense. No, quite the contrary. We live in a nation where your guilt has to be proven. So, if Goodell decides that such an investigation is of merit and should be conducted then we will wait on evidence to surface. If not, then all we can do is speculate and draw our own conclusions (cause lets face it we all do it).

KD, you bring up something that pains me to even consider (but common sense leads me to the same conclusion as you have stated)...Drew Brees having knowledge of the bounty scheme that was running rampant in the Saints locker room....good grief does it pain me to say that it is highly unlikely Drew didn't know...

That said, I want to throw a thought out there: Yes, he probably knew, but what was he supposed to do about it?

Remember, QBs are commonly the leader of the team, and if he would have "snitched" (which would have been how it was viewed) then how effective would his leadership be...anywhere? Players would feel like they couldn't trust him...and his leadership ability would be damaged in the locker room...so I can live with him knowing but not participating...what I could not live with is him being asked point blank by investigators if he knew and him lying saying he didn't.

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Oh I believe Payton got what was coming to him, that organization has be warned by Goodell before for suspicion I believe it goes back two years worth of lies , Im speaking of Fisher some are frying him already

I was alluding to Fisher and using Payton as an example, whether he knew or not it's his responsibility.
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I was alluding to Fisher and using Payton as an example, whether he knew or not it's his responsibility.

Long story short could Fisher have known back then, yes of course but do we have proof that he does know? no, besides Dungy saying HE THOUGHT Williams was doing that back when he was with Fisher, if Dungy thought that, then Dungy needs concrete proof (not to further convict Williams because hes doomed anyway) but because that involves another coach and a respected one at that (except if your Haynesworth and all he seems to respect is twinkies). their needs to be further investigation
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Do I think Jeff Fisher knows what kind of man Greg Williams is? In my mind without a doubt.

Do I think Jeff Fisher knows what kind of coach Greg Williams is? In my mind wIthout a doubt.

Therefore, of my own accord and for myself, I can draw a likely conclusion that Jeff Fisher was aware that Williams was running a bounty scheme in NO.

All this is based on (in my mind and my mind only) the fact that the two are close friends. So, my common sense says if these two are as close as they say they are, then the topic of what Williams was doing in NO had to come up at some point...I am just thinking about what I talk about with my close friends, which is usually my job, family, and interests. Now, granted I do not have any evidence, so I cannot say beyond a shadow of a doubt that Fisher knew (but I think we all know somewhere in our minds that he knew).

Now, I am NOT saying that punishment should come upon Fisher just due to circumstances and common sense. No, quite the contrary. We live in a nation where your guilt has to be proven. So, if Goodell decides that such an investigation is of merit and should be conducted then we will wait on evidence to surface. If not, then all we can do is speculate and draw our own conclusions (cause lets face it we all do it).

KD, you bring up something that pains me to even consider (but common sense leads me to the same conclusion as you have stated)...Drew Brees having knowledge of the bounty scheme that was running rampant in the Saints locker room....good grief does it pain me to say that it is highly unlikely Drew didn't know...

That said, I want to throw a thought out there: Yes, he probably knew, but what was he supposed to do about it?

Remember, QBs are commonly the leader of the team, and if he would have "snitched" (which would have been how it was viewed) then how effective would his leadership be...anywhere? Players would feel like they couldn't trust him...and his leadership ability would be damaged in the locker room...so I can live with him knowing but not participating...what I could not live with is him being asked point blank by investigators if he knew and him lying saying he didn't.

I still think Brees is a great guy. I was just pointing out I think he had to have known something. I'm sure there really wasn't much he could do about it. I totally agree with you on this whole subject. If he did lie to investigators that would bother me. I really do respect Drew. I hope nothing happens to change my mind.

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Long story short could Fisher have known back then, yes of course but do we have proof that he does know? no, besides Dungy saying HE THOUGHT Williams was doing that back when he was with Fisher, if Dungy thought that, then Dungy needs concrete proof (not to further convict Williams because hes doomed anyway) but because that involves another coach and a respected one at that (except if your Haynesworth and all he seems to respect is twinkies). their needs to be further investigation

I can't help but think common sense tells me he knew things. I don't know how much, when, or what. I think I would be more shocked to learn he really knew nothing. I honestly do not think Dungy would say something like that unless he truly believed it. This is all just my opinion though.

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I can't help but think common sense tells me he knew things. I don't know how much, when, or what. I think I would be more shocked to learn he really knew nothing. I honestly do not think Dungy would say something like that unless he truly believed it. This is all just my opinion though.

I agree Dungy truly does believe what he said and it may be true but putting that out their without facts to support his claims is veryyyyyyyyyyyyy risky especially since Fishers name hasnt been brought up in any investigation. I somehow think Fisher knows something but I want proof before I label him guilty
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I agree Dungy truly does believe what he said and it may be true but putting that out their without facts to support his claims is veryyyyyyyyyyyyy risky especially since Fishers name hasnt been brought up in any investigation. I somehow think Fisher knows something but I want proof before I label him guilty

I totally understand where you are coming from. I am not saying he 100% without a doubt knew something. It is just hard to believe he didn't know anything.

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I agree Dungy truly does believe what he said and it may be true but putting that out their without facts to support his claims is veryyyyyyyyyyyyy risky especially since Fishers name hasnt been brought up in any investigation. I somehow think Fisher knows something but I want proof before I label him guilty

How is it risky? He isnt in the NFL any longer.. He is in the media now.. He is paid to give his opinion..

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