I don't often agree with Holder... but....

[LiveAndLetAddai]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I don't we needed 7 there. 3 puts us behind by 8 and Russell Wilson was getting at least another FG at some point in time. This is why I am great in playing Chess - I think 3 moves ahead. If you are or anyone are going to tell me Russ wasn't going to score another point then stick to Checkers. People complained for years because Dungy didn't go for it 4th down, then Chuck never did, now people complain that Frank does - this place makes me 

 

On that play, Frank designed a great play, Hines was wide open, all Wentz had to do was flick to him, instead he held on to the ball and took a sack.

You are forgetting to that point neither team scored squat.  That unconverted 4th took the wind completely out the Colts sails and did nothing but embolden Seattle.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, WentzinRome said:

You are forgetting to that point neither team scored squat.  That unconverted 4th took the wind completely out the Colts sails and did nothing but embolden Seattle.  

@EastStreetsaid the same thing, if that is the case we have some weak minded dudes on defense. People always want to blame someone for a loss, our O.Line played like garbage, Frank doesn't block and Wentz I thought played good but not seeing Hines wide open there is puzzling.

[jimmy g]

11 hours ago, PrincetonTiger said:

I watched game film every night but Sunday as a player even more as a coach

   Often I watched the game on film the nigh5 it was played

My team got to watch the film a month after Coach got it back from the Rexall Drug Store developing it....

[LiveAndLetAddai]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

@EastStreetsaid the same thing, if that is the case we have some weak minded dudes on defense. People always want to blame someone for a loss, our O.Line played like garbage, Frank doesn't block and Wentz I thought played good but not seeing Hines wide open there is puzzling.

Who is blaming anyone?  Please don't insiuate that I am.  I would have at the very least ran the damn ball as Wentz was getting teed up all day.  If you actually watched the game, you could see the difference in the defense from that play on.  They struggled in the first half but played well, up to that point, in the second half.   The offense had terrible field position for most of the second half, which didn't help them either.   You can be an apologist all you want but those who have a differing opinion are entightled to theirs.

[DougDew]

Not sure how much game planning goes into the 1st game of the season.  I'm sure there is study of SEA from last season's games, but I would think the first game of the season is the game where its the most like a talent vs talent competition.

 

But doing away with the Analytics stat sheet when making any single 4th down decision would be wise, IMO.

[DougDew]

21 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I don't we needed 7 there. 3 puts us behind by 8 and Russell Wilson was getting at least another FG at some point in time. This is why I am great in playing Chess - I think 3 moves ahead. If you or anyone are going to tell me Russ wasn't going to score another point then stick to Checkers. People complained for years because Dungy didn't go for it 4th down, then Chuck never did, now people complain that Frank does - this place makes me 

 

On that play, Frank designed a great play, Hines was wide open, all Wentz had to do was flick to him, instead he held on to the ball and took a sack.

BTW, Andy Dalton got rid of the ball against the Rams Dline quicker than Wentz did against SEA, IMO.  I thought a quick ball release is what the O is supposed to be about.

[2006Coltsbestever]

18 minutes ago, WentzinRome said:

Who is blaming anyone?  Please don't insiuate that I am.  I would have at the very least ran the damn ball as Wentz was getting teed up all day.  If you actually watched the game, you could see the difference in the defense from that play on.  They struggled in the first half but played well, up to that point, in the second half.   The offense had terrible field position for most of the second half, which didn't help them either.   You can be an apologist all you want but those who have a differing opinion are entightled to theirs.

I watched the whole game and I am not insinuating anything  but people love blaming Frank for everything. We lost because our O.Line pass blocking stunk to high heaven and our secondary gave up 1 bomb where Lockett was wide open, my sister could've caught that pass  . Russ executed, we didn't. I thought Leonard played good but some in here was ripping him too. He even forced a fumble. To say if we take the 3 and get it to 21-13 that makes a difference, I simply disagree. They were going to score again eventually with Russ at QB. If going for it and not getting it deflated the defense than they are mentally sad, I don't believe that but some do apparently. Just get another stop and score and we are still in it, we were only down 21-10.

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

BTW, Andy Dalton got rid of the ball against the Rams Dline quicker than Wentz did against SEA, IMO.  I thought a quick ball release is what the O is supposed to be about.

Dalton lost 34-14, I think a quick release is key though.

[LiveAndLetAddai]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I watched the whole game and I am not insinuating anything  but people love blaming Frank for everything. We lost because our O.Line pass blocking stunk to high heaven and our secondary gave up 1 bomb where Lockett was wide open, my sister could've caught that pass  . Russ executed, we didn't. I thought Leonard played good but some in here was ripping too. He even forced a fumble. To say if we take the 3 and get it to 21-13 that makes a difference, I simply disagree. They were going to going to score again eventually with Russ at QB. If going for it and not getting it deflated the defense than they are mentally sad, I don't believe that but some do apparently. Just get another stop and score and we are still in it, we were only down 21-10.

4th an 1, why not run then????  Why go for a pass out of the shotgun?  Why not QB sneak?  These are fair questions and not blaming anyone, just question?

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, WentzinRome said:

4th an 1, why not run then????  Why go for a pass out of the shotgun?  Why not QB sneak?  These are fair questions and not blaming anyone, just question?

It is a fair question, I would've probably ran it outside with Hines because Seattle was probably thinking Taylor up the middle. Having said that Hines was wide open on that shotgun play which @EastStreetor anyone in here has admitted too for some reason.

[jbaron04]

It’s a long season but , I will say Ballard and frank knew that the LT , and secondary  was a issue and did nothing to address it . I understand that you can fix everything in one off season and Fischer might be the answer to our woes with Nelson’s and Kelly getting healthy. 

[DougDew]

21 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Dalton lost 34-14, I think a quick release is key though.

The Bears defense got roasted.  They didn't lose because of Dalton.  Just saying that he kept them in the game until the 3rd quarter by getting rid of the ball quicker than Wentz did against SEA, IMO.  The Colts should do the same until the Oline figures itself out.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

The Bears defense got roasted.  They didn't lose because of Dalton.  Just saying that he kept them in the game until the 3rd quarter by getting rid of the ball quicker than Wentz did against SEA, IMO.  The Colts should do the same until the Oline figures itself out.

Our secondary got roasted too, it was this 

[LiveAndLetAddai]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It is a fair question, I would've probably ran it outside with Hines because Seattle was probably thinking Taylor up the middle. Having said that Hines was wide open on that shotgun play which @EastStreetor anyone in here has admitted too for some reason.

Exactly, and I while I am not blaming Reich, I am questioning the play calling as well.  I am not even 100% sure Frank makes all the offensive calls.  I also feel had last years Buffalo game went as it did, many wouldn't be blaming or questioning.  It just sucks and I agree with you, the offensive line stunk up the place.  Hopefully next week is better!

[Zoltan]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Our secondary got roasted too, it was this 

Honestly it was mostly Tyler Lockett roasting Khari Willis, allowing a 69 yard touchdown and a 23 yard touchdown. 

[Mitch Connors]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I watched the whole game and I am not insinuating anything  but people love blaming Frank for everything. We lost because our O.Line pass blocking stunk to high heaven and our secondary gave up 1 bomb where Lockett was wide open, my sister could've caught that pass  . Russ executed, we didn't. I thought Leonard played good but some in here was ripping him too. He even forced a fumble. To say if we take the 3 and get it to 21-13 that makes a difference, I simply disagree. They were going to score again eventually with Russ at QB. If going for it and not getting it deflated the defense than they are mentally sad, I don't believe that but some do apparently. Just get another stop and score and we are still in it, we were only down 21-10.

 

I dont understand your logic. The only way to win is the STOP them on offense at least 1 time. Even if you convert and get a TD there you're still down by 4 points (21-17) and your defense still has to stop them on offense or you lose anyway. If you think the Colts have a stop in them then you take the 3 points. If you dont think the Colts D has a stop in them then the game is already over.

 

That failed conversion means you have to stop them twice. It was the wrong call.

[2006Coltsbestever]

28 minutes ago, Mitch Connors said:

 

I dont understand your logic. The only way to win is the STOP them on offense at least 1 time. Even if you convert and get a TD there you're still down by 4 points (21-17) and your defense still has to stop them on offense or you lose anyway. If you think the Colts have a stop in them then you take the 3 points. If you dont think the Colts D has a stop in them then the game is already over.

 

That failed conversion means you have to stop them twice. It was the wrong call.

My thinking was we get a TD there, then down 21-17, The D gives up a FG, then we score again and it's 24-24 at that point. Anyone's game. Down 21-13 doesn't do us squat. Getting a 2 point conversion is even a long shot if we were down 21-19. Teams aren't even 50% at converting those in history.

[2006Coltsbestever]

On that 4th and 1 play if Wentz just hit Hines as soon as he gets the ball, Hines gets 2 or 3 yards easily and 1st down. End of story. Rivers makes that play 99 out of 100 times. 

[Superman]

There's a lot to be critical of Reich for today. Saying he needs to watch the tape before commenting on the protection isn't one of them. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

People that don't understand my logic is puzzling. We had 10 points up to that point and had 4th and freakin 1 with JT and Hines. So we take the 3 and still down 21-13 facing Russ. Ok.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I would've went for it on the first drive from the 2, going up 7-0 would've been huge and if we don't get it they start from the 2. People in here would love me being headcoach , Stitches even agrees with me.

[PrincetonTiger]

7 minutes ago, Superman said:

There's a lot to be critical of Reich for today. Saying he needs to watch the tape before commenting on the protection isn't one of them. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Times you don't go for it is when a FG pulls you within 3 points or less, take the points then in the 2nd half, taking 3 on 4th and 1 when you have JT and Hines to pull you within 8 is comical.

[Valpo2004]

1. Seattle is a good team with a great quarterback we knew this going in.   

 

2. We have a habit of starting the season poorly and doing better later on, it sucks but it is reality.

 

So lets relax on the sky is falling attitudes a bit.

 

That said the OL play was a concern.  It wasn't just the left tackle, the run game was not able to get going and that is on the OL.

 

Defense did ok given the circumstances, but could have done better.  Its silly to think you are going to hold Russell Wilson to 10 points or get a bunch of turnovers off him.  

 

I am generally in favor of going for it on 4th and short when you are deep in your opponents territory.  I think we should have gone for it on the first drive and it was the correct call to go for it on the other 2 drives.  

 

QB sneak is the right call most of the time.  It's a shame that we fumbled the snap that one time but I would have done it again.   The last time we did it was an example that I see as my one problem with Frank is that he gets too cute on 3rd and 4th and short.  

 

 

[Flash7]

20 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

1. Seattle is a good team with a great quarterback we knew this going in.   

 

2. We have a habit of starting the season poorly and doing better later on, it sucks but it is reality.

 

So lets relax on the sky is falling attitudes a bit.

 

That said the OL play was a concern.  It wasn't just the left tackle, the run game was not able to get going and that is on the OL.

 

Defense did ok given the circumstances, but could have done better.

 

I am generally in favor of going for it on 4th and short when you are deep in your opponents territory.  I think we should have gone for it on the first drive and it was the correct call to go for it on the other 2 drives.  

 

QB sneak is the right call most of the time.  It's a shame that we fumbled the snap that one time but I would have done it again.   The last time we did it was an example that I see as my one problem with Frank is that he gets too cute on 3rd and 4th and short.  

 

 

Agree on some points, but would like to offer my take on points #2 and going for it on 4th down.

 

1. "We have a habit of starting the season poorly and doing better later on".  This is a narrative that exists on this forum, but does it bear out in reality? 

 

2017 - We had a 4-12 record. We did not play better later on. We were consistently bad.

2018 - We had a 10-6 record, after starting out 1-5. This is the only year this would apply and perhaps where this misconception began. I think it had more to do with Luck coming back, getting reacclimated with football, and letting his shoulder strengthen as the season went on. We would not have had a bad start if Luck's shoulder was fine to begin with, IMO.

2019 - We had a 7-9 record. We started 3-2 prior to the bye week (winning record) and finished 4-7 for the remaining games.

2020 - We had an 11-5 record. We started out 4-2 prior to the bye week. We finished 7-3 for the remaining games. We were consistent throughout the season.

 

I agree that we do lose our first game just about every season, thus further perpetuating this myth.

 

2. As for going for it on 4th down, I agree that we should have gone for it to start the game. If it backfired, there was plenty of time to right the ship. However, I don't think we should have gone for it with 3 minutes left in the game and down by 11. A field goal would have brought it to a 1-possession game (down by 8 points).

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, coming on strong said:

Frank does not have to trash his guys but he can say they did not play up to standard .  Toney dungy was a nice player coach too but he called out his guys . In 06 after getting trashed two weeks in a row dungy called the defense soft it led to them getting motivated and dominating in the playoffs. Holding guys accountable can be done without yelling .

I know.   I understand.   I’m not saying it can’t be done.   I’m saying I believe Frank chooses not too.    I think the comments you’re looking for Frank to say will likely come today. 

[cbear]

5 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I don't we needed 7 there. 3 puts us behind by 8 and Russell Wilson was getting at least another FG at some point in time. This is why I am great in playing Chess - I think 3 moves ahead. If you or anyone are going to tell me Russ wasn't going to score another point then stick to Checkers. People complained for years because Dungy didn't go for it 4th down, then Chuck never did, now people complain that Frank does - this place makes me 

 

On that play, Frank designed a great play, Hines was wide open, all Wentz had to do was flick to him, instead he held on to the ball and took a sack.

He had several players open and even seemed to look at Hines. Not sure why he held the ball. Too much confidence in his oline and took a quick peak into the end zone? I'd like to hear what he was thinking. That was the one egregious play he had. Other than that, he played fairly well. 

[cbear]

What does holding guys accountable publicly mean and for what purpose? To make fans feel better? To make him feel better by venting to the world? Maybe he was so angry at that point, he knew he had to cool down a bit first before saying something Holder could further whine about and the media and fans make a bigger stink about. 

 

How about we give him a day or so to speak to his team and coaches and do some self reflection before talking to the media. Not as exciting maybe for media and fans but so what? Behind closed doors is where the talking that counts happens. 

[MikeCurtis]

Enormous overreaction from the media

 

We played an excellent playoff team with a QB that had a hot hand

 

We were NOT in sync, on defense or offense

 

We should get a bit better.....

 

We need some more time together

 

We also should just kick the dang FG

 

It will all be ok, I think

 

 

[EastStreet]

7 hours ago, coming on strong said:

Frank is gonna be mad when he looks at the tape .

 

Yup. Davenport gave up two sacks in similar fashion. And surprisingly, Smith was ole'ing guys too.

I don't mind at all that Frank doesn't throw specific guys under the bus. I actually don't want him too.

 

But you have to be able to say at minimum, "we stunk protecting our QB today" and can add on that we need to watch film.

 

The coach speak and aphorisms from Frank are getting tired. There's a time for them of course, but some times you just gotta be a bit more raw and truthful. 

[EastStreet]

6 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

@EastStreetsaid the same thing, if that is the case we have some weak minded dudes on defense. People always want to blame someone for a loss, our O.Line played like garbage, Frank doesn't block and Wentz I thought played good but not seeing Hines wide open there is puzzling.

 

It's not weak minded dudes on D. It's the whole team, and as big or bigger, the crowd... And then it gives a huge boost to the opponent.

[EastStreet]

6 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It is a fair question, I would've probably ran it outside with Hines because Seattle was probably thinking Taylor up the middle. Having said that Hines was wide open on that shotgun play which @EastStreetor anyone in here has admitted too for some reason.

Honestly I don't care if everyone was open. It was the wrong decision to begin with, and the wrong play given what we saw all game. Having a guy open does not change those things.

[Pat Curtis]

I would like to know when will a major media outlet call out Leonard's play?  Rick Venturi did a couple years ago and I noticed it too, that he's a "splash" player which overshadows his terrible plays.  I saw him get mauled by a TE yesterday.....I actually LOL'd about it because it was so bad.  

 

Splash plays are cool and all but.....for $95.5 million I think he should do a little more than 1 forced fumble.  

[NannyMcafee]

While I am a bit disgruntled it would really do the Colts wonders if Wentz was able to start next year as well. 

[JediXMan]

Yikes.

[EastStreet]

54 minutes ago, JediXMan said:

Yikes.

 

Yikes is right lol.

At least he's being honest. Blackmon has never been a great coverage guy. I hope he develops in that area. At least he's taking the first step and admitting he lacks in some areas.

 

But not knowing down and distance situation is pretty much 101 stuff. Pretty lame for any DB. 

Understanding how Carroll or others OCs/HCs might attack is a little more forgivable, but still not good.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Yikes is right lol.

At least he's being honest. Blackmon has never been a great coverage guy. I hope he develops in that area. At least he's taking the first step and admitting he lacks in some areas.

 

But not knowing down and distance situation is pretty much 101 stuff. Pretty lame for any DB. 

Understanding how Carroll or others OCs/HCs might attack is a little more forgivable, but still not good.

Doesnt that go back to a coaching issue.

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

Doesnt that go back to a coaching issue.

Yes, if we're talking about the D itself, or the DB unit. 

If this is Blackmon talking about himself, goes to both him and coaching.

You don't play P5, get drafted, and still not know down and distance situations.... 

Not knowing how an opponent is going to attack is mostly on Flus and the DB coaches.

[TimetobringDfence!]

On 9/12/2021 at 9:26 PM, Andrew_Luck said:

That going over the tape comment is giving me Chuck Pagano flashbacks.

We're gonna go out behind the shed and work on this, come back tomorrow and chop more wood! Watch out it's a rolling ball of butcher knives...