Passing on a LT in the draft

[bluephantom87]

Let me start by saying that the poor showing by all who attempted to fill in at the LT position against the Panthers only mirrored what has been shown in training camp thus far. To put all your faith on a vet player coming off an Achilles tear in the hopes that he returns to all pro form is one thing but to add subpar, cheap FA bodies to "fill in" at such a critical position is another. Especially considering Carson's injury history and the duress in which he played under the last few years behind a porous o-line in Philly.

 

Don't get me wrong Indy has one of the best o-lines in football BUT is missing one of the most important pieces in the LT position which protects the qb's blindside. In a draft DEEP with LTs by all accounts on team in need, it was a head scratcher to most nfl gurus that the Colts did not address the issue in the early rounds. The gamble at LT could work out but the early returns has yielded major concerns.

[Nate!]

Let’s see how the rookie LTs that were available at their picks do this year.   

[throwing BBZ]

5 minutes ago, bluephantom87 said:

Let me start by saying that the poor showing by all who attempted to fill in at the LT position against the Panthers only mirrored what has been shown in training camp thus far. To put all your faith on a vet player coming off an Achilles tear in the hopes that he returns to all pro form is one thing but to add subpar, cheap FA bodies to "fill in" at such a critical position is another. Especially considering Carson's injury history and the duress in which he played under the last few years behind a porous o-line in Philly.

 

Don't get me wrong Indy has one of the best o-lines in football BUT is missing one of the most important pieces in the LT position which protects the qb's blindside. In a draft DEEP with LTs by all accounts on team in need, it was a head scratcher to most nfl gurus that the Colts did not address the issue in the early rounds. The gamble at LT could work out but the early returns has yielded major concerns.

 

  It's been beat to death that a number of YOUR LT prospects probably won't play LT in the NFL. Then you have the draft board thingy. 

 You are not scratching 'your head here'.

[John Hammonds]

Yup.  Our choices were simple.

 

It was either OT Christian Darrisaw or DE Kwity Paye at pick 21

Or trading up in the 2nd to get OT Samuel Cosmi at 51, instead of DE Dayo Odeyingbo at 54.

Instead, we traded for Fisher, brought in Tevi and Davenport, and crossed our fingers.

 

I hope we chose correctly.

[That Guy]

We had already signed Tevi and Davenport before the draft.  Those signings were for depth, and they had NO bearing on how the draft/Fisher situation went down.  If we had drafted a LT that needed time to develop, and wasn't ready by week one, we'd be in the same situation.  No draft pick is a sure thing (Quentin Nelson was as close as you can get, but even HE had negatives in the draft process).

[TimetobringDfence!]

26 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

Yup.  Our choices were simple.

 

It was either OT Christian Darrisaw or DE Kwity Paye at pick 21

Or trading up in the 2nd to get OT Samuel Cosmi at 51, instead of DE Dayo Odeyingbo at 54.

Instead, we traded for Fisher, brought in Tevi and Davenport, and crossed our fingers.

 

I hope we chose correctly.

To Ballard's Defense Holden was filling in nice last year. Had a rough start to the game but got better as it went on. Really good run blocker. Tevi has to go, he's not even practice squad material at this point.

[John Hammonds]

1 minute ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

To Ballard's Defense Holden was filling in nice last year. Had a rough start to the game but got better as it went on. Really good run blocker. Tevi has to go, he's not even practice squad material at this point.

As a preemptive measure --  I know, I didn't say it right.  We didn't "trade for" Fisher.  Just in case anyone cares.

[John Hammonds]

7 minutes ago, That Guy said:

We had already signed Tevi and Davenport before the draft.  Those signings were for depth, and they had NO bearing on how the draft/Fisher situation went down.  If we had drafted a LT that needed time to develop, and wasn't ready by week one, we'd be in the same situation.  No draft pick is a sure thing (Quentin Nelson was as close as you can get, but even HE had negatives in the draft process).

Good point!  If our rookie LT wasn't ready, we'd be down to the Three Amigo Wannabee's, similar to what we're doing today.

[Archer]

Yeah, I’m pretty certain we would have drafted Radunz or Cosmi had both of them not gone in the last three picks before our 2nd rounder.  But, you can’t moan over those players that weren’t available.  If it makes you feel better, Radunz has been beaten out at RT so far in Tenn by a nobody, Darrislaw’s been injured and probably won’t be starting Game 1 for Minn, and Cosmi looks to be starting at RT for Wash.  So, none of the possibilities are starting LTs yet.  Hard to imagine that’s much better than crossing our fingers on a known quantity at LT.  No perfect solution.  Plus, playing your draft board is how you build a perennial contender…

[TigerColt]

Would not be surprised if the starting LT for week one is not on our current roster. Just a hunch

 

Joseph

[GoHorse1992]

I know some Vikings fans and they said that there are rumblings that Darrisaw will never be right. Concerning groin issues. So there is that….

[coltsfan1965]

18 minutes ago, cjrichard said:

Would not be surprised if the starting LT for week one is not on our current roster. Just a hunch

 

Joseph

If Tevi or Davenport makes the roster, they should be very tense as Ballard looks at what other teams cut. 

[The Fish]

This won't be an issue if Fisher comes back and plays pretty well.

 

[Archer]

43 minutes ago, cjrichard said:

Would not be surprised if the starting LT for week one is not on our current roster. Just a hunch

 

Joseph

I was thinking that trading Ya Sin to a CB-hungry team might net a quality back-up LT that’s better than what we got.  Initially, I was thinking maybe to NO for James Hurst.  But I guess he’s a really key 6th OL that they wouldn’t part with.  Ya could go wi the Niners and Shon Coleman, but he hasn’t played in a few years…

1 minute ago, Archer said:

[Smonroe]

48 minutes ago, cjrichard said:

Would not be surprised if the starting LT for week one is not on our current roster. Just a hunch

 

Joseph

 

Are you thinking that a team is going to release a LT that's better than anyone on our roster (other than Fisher)?

 

I'd be shocked.  Better chance of calling up AC and tell him to start working out...fast.

[Jackie Daytona]

57 minutes ago, Archer said:

Yeah, I’m pretty certain we would have drafted Radunz or Cosmi had both of them not gone in the last three picks before our 2nd rounder.  But, you can’t moan over those players that weren’t available.  If it makes you feel better, Radunz has been beaten out at RT so far in Tenn by a nobody, Darrislaw’s been injured and probably won’t be starting Game 1 for Minn, and Cosmi looks to be starting at RT for Wash.  So, none of the possibilities are starting LTs yet.  Hard to imagine that’s much better than crossing our fingers on a known quantity at LT.  No perfect solution.  Plus, playing your draft board is how you build a perennial contender…

Imagine that, none of them are starters YET at LT, and maybe only one ever will be.   Kinda the scenario Ballard always claimed it to be!

[Yoshinator]

14 minutes ago, The Fish said:

This won't be an issue if Fisher comes back and plays pretty well.

 

Not this year, but he's on a one-year contract and we'd have to hope to re-sign him and for a decent price. The alternative was a rookie LT on a cheap 4 or 5 year deal in the 1st or 2nd round. 

 

So far, Darrisaw is hurt. Jenkins is hurt. Cosmi is a starting RT (maybe he could start at LT?). Radunz is getting beat out.

 

That leaves 2 out of 4 that are hurt, one that might be bad so far, and Cosmi who may or may not be able to start at LT.

 

Right now, we have Paye, Dayo, and Fisher. Looks like we may of made the right decision. 

[NorthernColt]

I think at this point, I'd rather go Nelson at LT and use Reed at LG, until Fisher is back, not a long term thing. I think the line would be much better instead of trying to shoehorn one of these subpar guys in there.

[jbaron04]

1 hour ago, bluephantom87 said:

Let me start by saying that the poor showing by all who attempted to fill in at the LT position against the Panthers only mirrored what has been shown in training camp thus far. To put all your faith on a vet player coming off an Achilles tear in the hopes that he returns to all pro form is one thing but to add subpar, cheap FA bodies to "fill in" at such a critical position is another. Especially considering Carson's injury history and the duress in which he played under the last few years behind a porous o-line in Philly.

 

Don't get me wrong Indy has one of the best o-lines in football BUT is missing one of the most important pieces in the LT position which protects the qb's blindside. In a draft DEEP with LTs by all accounts on team in need, it was a head scratcher to most nfl gurus that the Colts did not address the issue in the early rounds. The gamble at LT could work out but the early returns has yielded major concerns.

A lot of them guys that was available to be drafted  at the tackle position was projected by the nfl and colts to be Rt or guards . We had a major need in pass rush department and Payne just so happened to be the highest on the board. Every need can’t be filled in one offseason when your LT and qb retired in same offseason. 

[Yoshinator]

Just now, jbaron04 said:

A lot of them guys that was available to be drafted  at the tackle position was projected by the nfl and colts to be Rt or guards . We had a major need in pass rush department and Payne just so happened to be the highest on the board. Every need can’t be filled in one offseason when your LT and qb retired in same offseason. 

Yep, Paye was ranked 10th in the entire draft on Ballard's board. Imagine being a GM and getting that at 21!

[MikeCurtis]

By the end of Sept, we should be set all across the line

[jbaron04]

Just now, NorthernColt said:

I think at this point, I'd rather go Nelson at LT and use Reed at LG, until Fisher is back, not a long term thing. I think the line would be much better instead of trying to shoehorn one of these subpar guys in there.

Don’t panic yet we had no starters playing , it’s a big difference between playing next to Nelson’s and Kelly at LT than reed and tevi and the lot 

[NorthernColt]

4 minutes ago, jbaron04 said:

Don’t panic yet we had no starters playing , it’s a big difference between playing next to Nelson’s and Kelly at LT than reed and tevi and the lot 

Forsure, have to see more reps. I'm just saying based on what we've seen. Its also easier to help a Guard than it is a Tackle.

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, Archer said:

Yeah, I’m pretty certain we would have drafted Radunz or Cosmi had both of them not gone in the last three picks before our 2nd rounder.  But, you can’t moan over those players that weren’t available.  If it makes you feel better, Radunz has been beaten out at RT so far in Tenn by a nobody, Darrislaw’s been injured and probably won’t be starting Game 1 for Minn, and Cosmi looks to be starting at RT for Wash.  So, none of the possibilities are starting LTs yet.  Hard to imagine that’s much better than crossing our fingers on a known quantity at LT.  No perfect solution.  Plus, playing your draft board is how you build a perennial contender…

 

Would still be nice to have a healthy Cosmi and Radunz right now. Hopefully, PayeDayo can get back healthy soon.

[shasta519]

What is the latest on Fisher? I don't think I have heard anything for a week or so. 

 

If they can get Q back early, that will help. Can also have TEs chip that side. 

 

If Q and Fisher are out for a few weeks, I think you might see Ehlinger at some point.

[stitches]

I will never fault a GM for not drafting for need. This is a bad reason to take a player. Draft players you like and think can have the best long-term outcome(especially early in the draft), don't draft players you have doubts about but at positions you need. It's much more important that the player is good than that he fills a need. You can fill a need with questionable talent any time you want... hell we did it in FA at LT... twice.  But at least it doesn't cost as much as wasting a premier pick. 

 

If you can blame Ballard for something it's about how he addressed the position in FA. This is where you go for needs(draft - BPA, FA-fill holes and needs).... and we went for Fisher who had an injury that might make him miss anywhere between few games and the full season instead of players of similar level who were healthy. And added two LTs who have been nothing but bad in their careers so far... so not sure why Ballard expected them to be any different for us but... I guess there is still hope that Davenport might actually be able to play? 

 

Anyways... we are playing the Vikings this weekend. Paye has returned and seems like is practicing. No idea if Darrisaw is healthy, but if he is... it's very likely that we will see that matchup directly for the fun and drama of it all... not that it should matter a ton as a 1st preseason game. 

[BlackTiger]

1 hour ago, cjrichard said:

Would not be surprised if the starting LT for week one is not on our current roster.

Doubt anyone will be available, starting lts dont get cut

[TimetobringDfence!]

2 hours ago, coltsfan1965 said:

If Tevi or Davenport makes the roster, they should be very tense as Ballard looks at what other teams cut. 

That's exactly what's going on at the moment. We are looking for the top cut to replace Tevi.

[jbaron04]

3 hours ago, NorthernColt said:

Forsure, have to see more reps. I'm just saying based on what we've seen. Its also easier to help a Guard than it is a Tackle.

But it’s easier to scheme edge pressure than interior 

[bluephantom87]

6 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  It's been beat to death that a number of YOUR LT prospects probably won't play LT in the NFL. Then you have the draft board thingy. 

 You are not scratching 'your head here'.

 

I didn't know I had listed any prospects now or before the draft and further more no draft board thingy for me either. Sorry to burst your bubble but wrong guy!

[Zoltan]

6 hours ago, Nate! said:

Let’s see how the rookie LTs that were available at their picks do this year.   

Well I saw Darrisaw just had a second surgery this year and has been limited all training camp, it doesn't seem like it will keep him out long but not a good start for the rookie 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32009879/minnesota-vikings-first-round-draft-pick-christian-darrisaw-second-surgery-groin

[BProland85]

I really wanted OT Spencer Brown from Northern Iowa, and he went late 3rd round Buffalo if I'm not mistaken. Could've possibly traded up from the 4th to snatch him. 

4 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

Would still be nice to have a healthy Cosmi and Radunz right now. Hopefully, PayeDayo can get back healthy soon.

 

Radunz has really been struggling in Titans camp, which is just fine with me. 

[funktacious2]

Right, I'm pretty sure Ballard or Reich admitted they had an OT that they would have taken that went right before us at 54. My guess is Radunz. It is what it is. We probably went in hoping we could address both LT and DE but knew we would need some fortune to get both. I personally still think the Fischer pick-up could be a nice move. Long-term I have little qualms at all. We got two young DE/DTs with a ton of promise and we needed it. Short-term this is a bit scary. But let's not forget that they don't have all-pro Nelson over there to help out either.

[shasta519]

3 hours ago, BProland85 said:

I really wanted OT Spencer Brown from Northern Iowa, and he went late 3rd round Buffalo if I'm not mistaken. Could've possibly traded up from the 4th to snatch him. 

 

Radunz has really been struggling in Titans camp, which is just fine with me. 

From what I read, Radunz was the top OL player in TEN’s first preseason game. But hard telling who played. 

[coltsfeva]

Holden looked decent in the run game. I expect the coaching staff to look at any flaws in pass pro technique (for all three backups) and hopefully, we’ll see some improvement.

[GoColts8818]

My guess is even if they won’t admit it that if the people upset that the Colts didn’t draft a tackle would making the same thread right now just about passing on a pass rusher had the Colts drafted a tackle instead.  
 

The Colts had multiple big needs and weren’t in position to get a tackle based on how the draft played out.  The good news is that they should have addressed the other major need in terms of the pass rusher with two guys with first round grades.  
 

Ballard then signed a pretty solid “bandaid” for the LT spot if Fisher gets healthy.  I think he handled it pretty well given the cards he was dealt and he adjusted and pivoted without panicking.  

[PrincetonTiger]

6 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

My guess is even if they won’t admit it that if the people upset that the Colts didn’t draft a tackle would making the same thread right now just about passing on a pass rusher had the Colts drafted a tackle instead.  
 

The Colts had multiple big needs and weren’t in position to get a tackle based on how the draft played out.  The good news is that they should have addressed the other major need in terms of the pass rusher with two guys with first round grades.  
 

Ballard then signed a pretty solid “bandaid” for the LT spot if Fisher gets healthy.  I think he handled it pretty well given the cards he was dealt and he adjusted and pivoted without panicking.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I am not worried about the left side until I see what happens in the regular season. Reich can game plan to help that left side. He isn’t going to do that in the regular season. Dlines also aren’t showing anything. 
 

I think the lines are probably the two things it’s hard to get a grasp on in preseason games or practices.

 

 

[csmopar]

11 hours ago, bluephantom87 said:

Let me start by saying that the poor showing by all who attempted to fill in at the LT position against the Panthers only mirrored what has been shown in training camp thus far. To put all your faith on a vet player coming off an Achilles tear in the hopes that he returns to all pro form is one thing but to add subpar, cheap FA bodies to "fill in" at such a critical position is another. Especially considering Carson's injury history and the duress in which he played under the last few years behind a porous o-line in Philly.

 

Don't get me wrong Indy has one of the best o-lines in football BUT is missing one of the most important pieces in the LT position which protects the qb's blindside. In a draft DEEP with LTs by all accounts on team in need, it was a head scratcher to most nfl gurus that the Colts did not address the issue in the early rounds. The gamble at LT could work out but the early returns has yielded major concerns.

By several accounts this was a rather weak OT class. Most of the top round picks were talked about being RT. We weren’t high enough to grab a starting Lt

[krunk]

4 hours ago, BProland85 said:

I really wanted OT Spencer Brown from Northern Iowa, and he went late 3rd round Buffalo if I'm not mistaken. Could've possibly traded up from the 4th to snatch him. 

 

Radunz has really been struggling in Titans camp, which is just fine with me. 

I said a number of times i didnt like Radunz. I didnt like his level of competition and i questioned his strength.