Gregg Rosenthal

[TheBlueAndWhite]

From NFL.COM  - Colts coach Frank Reich said it was a "fair question" to ask whether sixth-round rookie quarterback Sam Ehlinger is worthy of a bigger role after outplaying nominal starter Jacob Eason in practice over the last week, in the wake of Carson Wentz's foot surgery.

Ehlinger is a nice story so far, but the fact that he's reportedly going through his reads more quickly than Eason, a second-year player, doesn't bode well for the Colts' current setup. Watching the young kids for a preseason game or three makes some sense, but I still expect the Colts to add another veteran quarterback to the mix before the regular season begins, given Wentz's uncertain recovery timetable.

 

I thought people watching camp are saying that Eason is looking better than Ehlinger and that Ehlinger has no chance at starting, it looks like Rosenthal is reporting the opposite? 

 

Thoughts? 

[Bravo]

Many other threads speak about this topic.

 

Ehlinger doesn’t not have an NFL arm by the sounds of it and many of his passes are small check downs to RBs. He seems smart and is mobile but the arm just doesn’t seem to be there. (Film and reports)

 

Eason has elite arm strength. Also his first year was basically nonexistent. No training camp or preseason. Didn’t get any play time during the season either. It was basically a red shirt year. Eason seems to struggle with decision making but has all the tools needed to succeed. A lot of his issues can be coached. It seems Eason has a higher upside right now. (Film and Reports)

 

Idk why a decision has to be made now. Carson is the starter when he comes back. Let the young guys play their preseason games.

[pgt_rob]

He's our Chad Kelly again. Apparently has had a decent camp with the 2's and 3's. I envision fans call for him to replace Wentz at some point. 

[Chucklez]

If you listen to the Around the NFL Podcast, you will know Gregg has been a bit of a Colts doubter. He wouldn't admit it, but he is already biased against the Colts this season and I think he is subconsciously wish-casting a bad season for us. He will be reading into the reports that Eason isn't making the reads as quickly and then drawing conclusions from that. 

He does have to cover all 32 teams though and can't deep dive into every single one, so you can forgive him for not having all of the details, but in his mind our 2021/2022 season is already over. I'm not surprised to see him writing this and casting more doubt over our upcoming season and QB situation.

[coltsfeva]

   I don’t put much stock in “National Commentators” like Rosenthal. It seems they are not as clued in to what is actually going on. 
    However, there does seem to be more of a competition at QB until Wentz is ready and if there is any doubt about the Oline protection, the Colts could opt for the “quicker release” game Ehlinger brings. Too soon to tell, really but if the Colts are headed that way, we’ll see Ehlinger’s snaps increase.

    Where I think he’s wrong is “adding another veteran QB in the mix”. At this point, Reich/Ballard aren’t thinking that way. Time will tell.

[Smonroe]

5 minutes ago, Chucklez said:

If you listen to the Around the NFL Podcast, you will know Gregg has been a bit of a Colts doubter. He wouldn't admit it, but he is already biased against the Colts this season and I think he is subconsciously wish-casting a bad season for us. He will be reading into the reports that Eason isn't making the reads as quickly and then drawing conclusions from that. 

He does have to cover all 32 teams though and can't deep dive into every single one, so you can forgive him for not having all of the details, but in his mind our 2021/2022 season is already over. I'm not surprised to see him writing this and casting more doubt over our upcoming season and QB situation.

 

Are you politely saying he's a hack?  LOL!

 

I've learned long ago that the national media isn't nearly as informed as the local people.  They're usually fed some story, probably by one of their producers who reads the local media content.

 

I'm kind of surprised when they have any Colts stories on ESPN or the NFL Network.  So I take it all with a huge grain of salt.

[throwing BBZ]

 

 Going through reads a little faster does not a NFL Starter make.

Eason has the arm to attack the sidelines in a way that EHL Can't.

 There are more things to his advantage but let Frank deal with it.

[John Hammonds]

Yes, it's "a fair question".  Sure it's a fair question.  Ehlinger has started far more college games than Eason, and so will naturally make his reads more quickly.  Eason also has a much Much MUCH bigger arm.  And Reich is on record saying that you can do so much more with a big arm like that.  Sure it's a fair question.  But there's a reason why Eason is getting the starter's snaps at this time.

[Breeze]

Playing in an actual NFL game has always been the best measuring stick for how a player will perform in an actual NFL game.

[krunk]

1 hour ago, TheBlueAndWhite said:

From NFL.COM  - Colts coach Frank Reich said it was a "fair question" to ask whether sixth-round rookie quarterback Sam Ehlinger is worthy of a bigger role after outplaying nominal starter Jacob Eason in practice over the last week, in the wake of Carson Wentz's foot surgery.

Ehlinger is a nice story so far, but the fact that he's reportedly going through his reads more quickly than Eason, a second-year player, doesn't bode well for the Colts' current setup. Watching the young kids for a preseason game or three makes some sense, but I still expect the Colts to add another veteran quarterback to the mix before the regular season begins, given Wentz's uncertain recovery timetable.

 

I thought people watching camp are saying that Eason is looking better than Ehlinger and that Ehlinger has no chance at starting, it looks like Rosenthal is reporting the opposite? 

 

Thoughts? 

Its not a report. Its his opinion and what he claims he anticipates based on really not many facts

[Myles]

It's an opinion piece.  

[The Fish]

1 hour ago, Smonroe said:

 

Are you politely saying he's a hack?  LOL!

 

I've learned long ago that the national media isn't nearly as informed as the local people.  They're usually fed some story, probably by one of their producers who reads the local media content.

 

I'm kind of surprised when they have any Colts stories on ESPN or the NFL Network.  So I take it all with a huge grain of salt.

The national sports media complex is bad it's job on several fronts, but long before I cared about the other examples, the fact that they mangled Colts info and projected dumb op-ed points frequently clued me into the perspective they were providing. Indy isn't NYC, they don't care- at all.

[The Fish]

57 minutes ago, Breeze said:

Playing in an actual NFL game has always been the best measuring stick for how a player will perform in an actual NFL game.

Fact check, true. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Kevin Bowen said sunday Sam was super accurate bur you could add all his passss up and all together probably didn’t total 20 yards.

[IndyEric07]

All Ehlinger has to do is hit the weight room and add 15-20lbs of muscle!

[throwing BBZ]

17 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

Kevin Bowen said sunday Sam was super accurate bur you could add all his passss up and all together probably didn’t total 20 yards.

 

 It's Great that he is executing his plays really well. He absolutely can help us mix it up with his athleticism, in short yardage, including red zone situations.
Make the defenses have to practice for it. Go Sam go!!

[stitches]

Ehlinger's strengths are well suited to exploit our type of defense(which is what he's playing against in practice). According to reports he's much better reading the zone and making progression reads than Eason. BUT... a ton of his passes are of the dink and dunk variety. In essense he's doing what a lot of teams do against us - small gains with short safe passes. 

 

Now the question is - how does that translate to other styles of defenses in the league? How would he fare against tight man coverage where he will need to fit some balls in tight spaces? This is where Eason is supposedly going to be better with his arm talent. 

 

I have a sneaky suspicion that neither will start a game for the Colts. The reports coming from camp are that both are just too inconsistent. I would have loved for one of them to take the reins and excel in Wentz' absence but doesn't seem like it's happening and if it is... it seems like Ehlinger is the one that's closing the gap to Eason more than Eason closing the gap to a starting level of play. IMO if Wentz is not ready, we likely sign some vet to be caretaker for a few games. 

 

But this is all based on reports I'm getting from camp. I haven't actually watched a minute of either of them in the NFL yet, so I'd love to see the games coming up over the next several weeks. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

29 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

Kevin Bowen said sunday Sam was super accurate bur you could add all his passss up and all together probably didn’t total 20 yards.

 

..  hmm.... so we have our own version of Tua. 

[Flash7]

1. The NFL is littered with failed QBs who had amazing arm strength. Guys like Kyle Boller, Jamarcus Russel, Jeff George, etc. You just need enough arm strength to be able to make every throw. Anything beyond that is just gravy. Eason has more than enough arm talent, while it's yet to be seen in Ehlinger has the bare minimum required. Given that he was drafted by Ballard, you would have to assume that he has enough arm talent.

2. I read in a tweet that Ehlinger was under pressure, he bought time and found Patmon 45 yards down field. So he can throw deep when needed. 

3. The Colts just had a QB (Jalen Morton) that claimed he could throw the ball 100 yards. He was released last week. (It takes more than just arm strength).

 

4. In the NFL, the hardest thing to do is to be able to read and react to defenses and deliver accurate passes. This is what makes Peyton, Brees, Brady, etc. great. Not their arm strength, but  their ability to diagnose defenses and go through their progressions and deliver an accurate ball while under pressure. Eason is well behind in this regard while it would appear that Ehlinger is doing better, (maybe not good enough but better than Eason at this point).

5. Our offense is designed to be a quick-read and dink & dunk offense, with some deep shots sprinkled in. It seems like that's what Ehlinger is doing.

 

 

[buccolts]

7 minutes ago, stitches said:

Ehlinger's strengths are well suited to exploit our type of defense(which is what he's playing against in practice). According to reports he's much better reading the zone and making progression reads than Eason. BUT... a ton of his passes are of the dink and dunk variety. In essense he's doing what a lot of teams do against us - small gains with short safe passes. 

 

Now the question is - how does that translate to other styles of defenses in the league? How would he fare against tight man coverage where he will need to fit some balls in tight spaces? This is where Eason is supposedly going to be better with his arm talent. 

 

I have a sneaky suspicion that neither will start a game for the Colts. The reports coming from camp are that both are just too inconsistent. I would have loved for one of them to take the reins and excel in Wentz' absence but doesn't seem like it's happening and if it is... it seems like Ehlinger is the one that's closing the gap to Eason more than Eason closing the gap to a starting level of play. IMO if Wentz is not ready, we likely sign some vet to be caretaker for a few games. 

 

But this is all based on reports I'm getting from camp. I haven't actually watched a minute of either of them in the NFL yet, so I'd love to see the games coming up over the next several weeks. 

Sounds like,  between the two of them we have the scout QB position covered.

[twfish]

I still laugh at this thought. We don’t give our defense near enough credit. We made a couple really good starting caliber QB’s look wayyyy worse then the reports of Eason having a couple bad days when the majority of the o-line is banged up and then Ehlinger goes up against back ups and looks decent… well duh..

[The Fish]

18 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

1. The NFL is littered with failed QBs who had amazing arm strength. Guys like Kyle Boller, Jamarcus Russel, Jeff George, etc. You just need enough arm strength to be able to make every throw. Anything beyond that is just gravy. Eason has more than enough arm talent, while it's yet to be seen in Ehlinger has the bare minimum required. Given that he was drafted by Ballard, you would have to assume that he has enough arm talent.

2. I read in a tweet that Ehlinger was under pressure, he bought time and found Patmon 45 yards down field. So he can throw deep when needed. 

3. The Colts just had a QB (Jalen Morton) that claimed he could throw the ball 100 yards. He was released last week. (It takes more than just arm strength).

 

4. In the NFL, the hardest thing to do is to be able to read and react to defenses and deliver accurate passes. This is what makes Peyton, Brees, Brady, etc. great. Not their arm strength, but  their ability to diagnose defenses and go through their progressions and deliver an accurate ball while under pressure. Eason is well behind in this regard while it would appear that Ehlinger is doing better, (maybe not good enough but better than Eason at this point).

5. Our offense is designed to be a quick-read and dink & dunk offense, with some deep shots sprinkled in. It seems like that's what Ehlinger is doing.

 

 

Quick point (good post)

If Morton could throw the ball 100 yards, he'd be showing that off at least some of that. I my self can throw this football over them mountains- take my word for it! 

[Flash7]

Just now, The Fish said:

Quick point (good post)

If Morton could throw the ball 100 yards, he'd be showing that off at least some of that. I my self can throw this football over them mountains- take my word for it! 

I agree: If he could throw the ball 100 yards he'd be showing that off. I know that I would (if I could). Even if the receiver was running a 5-yard hitch, I'd sling that ball 100 yards just to show off. And then I'd be cut.

[The Fish]

11 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

I agree: If he could throw the ball 100 yards he'd be showing that off. I know that I would (if I could). Even if the receiver was running a 5-yard hitch, I'd sling that ball 100 yards just to show off. And then I'd be cut.

same

[Mackrel829]

3 hours ago, Smonroe said:

 

Are you politely saying he's a hack?  LOL!

 

I've learned long ago that the national media isn't nearly as informed as the local people.  They're usually fed some story, probably by one of their producers who reads the local media content.

 

I'm kind of surprised when they have any Colts stories on ESPN or the NFL Network.  So I take it all with a huge grain of salt.

 

He's not a hack by any means.

 

I like the Around the NFL podcast a lot but, as you say, they're not tuned into the fine details of all 32 teams. Their job is to give surface coverage of the league as a whole. They can't possibly know what's going on with every camp battle at every facility.

 

Some national guys think they know absolutely everything about absolutely everything but the ATN guys aren't like that. They're very self-depricating and don't take themselves too seriously.

[Mackrel829]

1 hour ago, Flash7 said:

1. The NFL is littered with failed QBs who had amazing arm strength. Guys like Kyle Boller, Jamarcus Russel, Jeff George, etc. You just need enough arm strength to be able to make every throw. Anything beyond that is just gravy. Eason has more than enough arm talent, while it's yet to be seen in Ehlinger has the bare minimum required. Given that he was drafted by Ballard, you would have to assume that he has enough arm talent.

2. I read in a tweet that Ehlinger was under pressure, he bought time and found Patmon 45 yards down field. So he can throw deep when needed. 

3. The Colts just had a QB (Jalen Morton) that claimed he could throw the ball 100 yards. He was released last week. (It takes more than just arm strength).

 

4. In the NFL, the hardest thing to do is to be able to read and react to defenses and deliver accurate passes. This is what makes Peyton, Brees, Brady, etc. great. Not their arm strength, but  their ability to diagnose defenses and go through their progressions and deliver an accurate ball while under pressure. Eason is well behind in this regard while it would appear that Ehlinger is doing better, (maybe not good enough but better than Eason at this point).

5. Our offense is designed to be a quick-read and dink & dunk offense, with some deep shots sprinkled in. It seems like that's what Ehlinger is doing.

 

 

 

I agree with a lot of this but just wanted to make a quick point.

 

Arm strength isn't only about being able to throw the ball deep. A QB with a stronger arm will also be able to deliver short and intermediate passes with higher velocity, achieve a tighter spiral, reduce the time the ball is in the air, etc.

 

Touch and finesse is obviously also important. You can't just have a strong arm. But, at the same time, arm strength doesn't only apply to deep passes.

[Four2itus]

3 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Going through reads a little faster does not a NFL Starter make.

Eason has the arm to attack the sidelines in a way that EHL Can't.

 There are more things to his advantage but let Frank deal with it.

Just maybe.....Sam isn't slinging those long passes until he breaks the pocket, because he can't see over the D-line.

 

 

[JMichael557]

Sam was really bad today with the starters. Eason had a great day playing with 1s and 2s. 

[throwing BBZ]

42 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

Just maybe.....Sam isn't slinging those long passes until he breaks the pocket, because he can't see over the D-line.

 

 

 

  Brees was amazing. But i believe by reading the D he usually knew where he was going with it. And it was funny watching him rise up on his toes so often to make those quick slant throws. Russell Wilson is brilliant but he has had to do a lot of running to make it work. 

 I'm excited for Sam and hope he gets so good over the next few years we have us a solid, playmaking jewell of a backup. 

[IndyEric07]

4 hours ago, Flash7 said:

I agree: If he could throw the ball 100 yards he'd be showing that off. I know that I would (if I could). Even if the receiver was running a 5-yard hitch, I'd sling that ball 100 yards just to show off. And then I'd be cut.

Musta been a windy day! I myself threw 70-75yds in 8th grade with a high school fball, but there were 30mph+ wind gusts, I couldnt throw it more than 65yds since that before I changed positions! I did kick a rugby ball 100yds back then also when there were 50mph gusts! Lol.

[DougDew]

Sam was working with a new set of players on O and D, so its not surprised he struggled.  I think Sam sticks on the roster, or has shown that another team will pick him up.  Beyond that, its too early to tell.

 

But please look up his college stats.  He was billed as a limited QB, a runner, but check out his PASSING numbers.  He was no one year wonder, did it for three years and got better each year.  At this early stage, it just seems like a guy that you have to let prove to you that he can't do it in the NFL rather than prove to you he can, because his opportunities will not provide a clean data-set.

[craigerb]

8 hours ago, TheBlueAndWhite said:

......All generilazations are false......

and some are misspelled.

[Moosejawcolt]

12 hours ago, twfish said:

I still laugh at this thought. We don’t give our defense near enough credit. We made a couple really good starting caliber QB’s look wayyyy worse then the reports of Eason having a couple bad days when the majority of the o-line is banged up and then Ehlinger goes up against back ups and looks decent… well duh..

What  qbs has this defence made look bad? I mean above average.

[EastStreet]

3 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

What  qbs has this defence made look bad? I mean above average.

I'm confused. 

Are you asking

 

1. What QBs made our D look bad?

or 

2. What good QBs looked bad vs our D?

 

The answer to 1 is easy. There are several. And Minshew looked like a surgeon.

I'd have to dig on 2

[SteelCityColt]

18 hours ago, Four2itus said:

Just maybe.....Sam isn't slinging those long passes until he breaks the pocket, because he can't see over the D-line.

 

 

 

On this point, how does Wilson cope with this, especially given he's known for the consistency and accuracy of his deep ball. 

[lollygagger8]

22 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Going through reads a little faster does not a NFL Starter make.

Eason has the arm to attack the sidelines in a way that EHL Can't.

 There are more things to his advantage but let Frank deal with it.

 

Neither does just having a strong arm. 

 

Just sayin! 

[throwing BBZ]

2 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

On this point, how does Wilson cope with this, especially given he's known for the consistency and accuracy of his deep ball. 

 

 You should watch him. He holds onto the ball a long time and runs around a lot.

[SteelCityColt]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 You should watch him. He holds onto the ball a long time and runs around a lot.

 

Snide aside, I was conscious that a lot of what I see of Wilson will be the highlight reel where he's playing backyard miracle ball. It's somewhat amazing to consistently do this and get away with it. 

 

I blame him for Manziel going in the 1st.. 

[Four2itus]

5 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

On this point, how does Wilson cope with this, especially given he's known for the consistency and accuracy of his deep ball. 

I think it's about super quick processing. I think Wilson and Brees...both see flashes (windows if you will), for a split second, and they trust their WR to be where they are supposed to....and make the pass. It's my guess (as I never played the position), that some QB's need full view before trusting that throw. 

 

I do believe that QB's don't have near the view that a lot of fans think they do. Height matters. That said, there are always exceptions. Bob Sanders devastated people at an explosion far greater than many players bigger than him. He was an exception. I think Wilson and Brees are as well when relating to QB height. 

[Moosejawcolt]

On 8/10/2021 at 11:23 PM, EastStreet said:

I'm confused. 

Are you asking

 

1. What QBs made our D look bad?

or 

2. What good QBs looked bad vs our D?

 

The answer to 1 is easy. There are several. And Minshew looked like a surgeon.

I'd have to dig on 2

Sorry.  I meant to say that this defence has performed miserably against very good qbs and well balanced offenses.