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Another off day?


Iron Colt
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1 hour ago, Blueblood23 said:

Don’t think we have any linebackers the size of a Ray Lewis, Brian Urlaucher, Junior Seau. We had Leonard playing at about 215lbs last year. He said so himself. 

It is a huge misconception that players are bigger or stronger in general today than they were at least going to back to the late 80's and especially the 90's. The 1995 Dallas Cowboys still have the record for biggest O.Line of all-time across the board and Larry Allen could bench 700 pounds. That isn't an outlier when we are talking about a whole O.Line and not just 1 player. Ray Donaldson (ex Colt) was the Cowboys Center in 1995 and he played at 330 pounds, Nate Newton's playing WT was at 335. I have had this discussion before in here with a few. There is still nobody faster than players like Deion Sanders, Darrell Green, Willie Gault, Bo Jackson, Barry Sanders, or even Dickerson who was fast for a big RB. The only difference today compared to 20/30 years ago is medical technology. Players are able to recover from major injury a lot better and minor injuries quickly. 

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The players are soft today. They're more worried about spending millions on their bodies to become as big and fast as possible that they don't have time to smoke on the sidelines and drink beer at halftime. 

 

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12 hours ago, Iron Colt said:

That's two out of five days. I hope they are at least in the film room. Eason needs the work.

 

Well at least no one should get hurt if there's no practice..... But I wonder if anyone ever got injured in the film room? haha

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16 minutes ago, wig said:

The players are soft today. They're more worried about spending millions on their bodies to become as big and fast as possible that they don't have time to smoke on the sidelines and drink beer at halftime. 

The players are soft today. They're more worried about spending millions on their bodies to become as big and fast as possible that they don't have time to smoke on the sidelines and drink beer at halftime. 

I don't think players are soft today but to say an all-pro team is bigger, stronger, and faster today compared to the late 80's and 90's players is way wrong. I could put together a team just from the 90's that could beat any all-pro team today. I would start with John Elway as my QB if we are just going by 90's. Back then it wasn't a passing league like it is now and he still threw for over 50,000 yards and 300 TD's, was clutch as hell, and could even run a little. He won 2 SB's so I feel great with him. Try to defend Jerry Rice, Michael Irvin, and Cris Carter lmao . I'll take Barry and Emmitt for my RB's and just give me the 1995 Cowboys O.Line for craps and giggles. That is just offense lmao 

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22 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I don't think players are soft today but to say an all-pro team is bigger, stronger, and faster today compared to the late 80's and 90's players is way wrong. I could put together a team just from the 90's that could beat any all-pro team today. I would start with John Elway as my QB if we are just going by 90's. Back then it wasn't a passing league like it is now and he still threw for over 50,000 yards and 300 TD's, was clutch as hell, and could even run a little. He won 2 SB's so I feel great with him. Try to defend Jerry Rice, Michael Irvin, and Cris Carter lmao . I'll take Barry and Emmitt for my RB's and just give me the 1995 Cowboys O.Line for craps and giggles. That is just offense lmao 

He didn’t say less talented.   He said today’s players are bigger and faster.   And they are.  That’s not even in dispute.   And no one but you limited thus to only all-pro players.   Giant players from way back when were the exception, not the rule.   Now they are the rule. 

 

Pointing to the best of the best in any given decade misses the bigger issue.  We’re talking about players today on all 32 teams being bigger and faster then the players on all of the teams from decades in the past.  Make it all the everyday players and it’s obvious.  The game is bigger and faster, but not necessarily more talented.

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2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

He didn’t say less talented.   He said today’s players are bigger and faster.   And they are.  That’s not even in dispute.   And no one but you limited thus to only all-pro players.   Giant players from way back when were the exception, not the rule.   Now they are the rule. 

 

Pointing to the best of the best in any given decade misses the bigger issue.  We’re talking about players today on all 32 teams being bigger and faster then the players on all of the teams from decades in the past.  Make it all the everyday players and it’s obvious.  The game is bigger and faster, but not necessarily more talented.

Yeah but I am not listing outliers, I listed 5 or 6 guys that are just as fast and just as big if not bigger in the 90's. I could actually list over 75 players from several rosters back then, some from every team (not just an all-pro team) but it will take a lot of time. I guess if you want to say players on each roster from 35-53 are bigger, stronger, and faster today than I can buy that but those guys rarely play. Throughout history most people only care about the starters and just a handful of backups.  You are older me, you should know this. Today's technology is better medically which I posted above, players can get healthier quicker and recover from bad injury a lot better, no debate there.  

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3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah but I am not listing outliers, I listed 5 or 6 guys that are just as fast and just as big if not bigger in the 90's. I could actually list over 75 players from several rosters back then, some from every team (not just an all-pro team) but it will take a lot of time. I guess if you want to say players on each roster from 35-53 are bigger, stronger, and faster today than I can buy that but those guys rarely play. Throughout history most people only care about the starters and just a handful of backups.  You are older me, you should know this. Today's technology is better medically which I posted above, players can get healthier quicker and recover from bad injury a lot better, no debate there.  

You’re decaying something that usnt debatable.

 

Players are bigger and faster today than before.    Not better

 

Telling me you can name 75 guys who were big and fast is worthless when you realize that there were roughly 1250-1500 players in the NFL once upon a time.   Now it’s roughly 2000.   Times have changed. 
 

In 1984 Refrigerator Perry was drafted at 304 pounds.  And the next day a number of teams admitted he was completely off their entire board because he was too heavy.   Now, he’d barely be heavy enough.   Times have changed. 

 

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2 hours ago, wig said:

The players are soft today. They're more worried about spending millions on their bodies to become as big and fast as possible that they don't have time to smoke on the sidelines and drink beer at halftime. 

 

I'll drink to that.

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19 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

You’re decaying something that usnt debatable.

 

Players are bigger and faster today than before.    Not better

 

Telling me you can name 75 guys who were big and fast is worthless when you realize that there were roughly 1250-1500 players in the NFL once upon a time.   Now it’s roughly 2000.   Times have changed. 
 

In 1984 Refrigerator Perry was drafted at 304 pounds.  And the next day a number of teams admitted he was completely off their entire board because he was too heavy.   Now, he’d barely be heavy enough.   Times have changed. 

 

Fair enough, I just think there were plenty of guys back in the late 80's and 90's that could hold their own as far as speed and strength in todays league. The 80's and 90's get too short changed IMO. Yeah and talent wise they may have been better so credit to you there. When I said 75, it is probably more like a couple of hundred but I didn't want to go over board with it lol. Plus it would take me all my day to list that stuff, I would need glasses after a while  See Season 16 GIF by The Simpsons

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Screen_Shot_2017_02_03_at_3.48.18_PM.png

 

https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/a19531098/the-evolution-of-the-football-player/

 

“When we look at the trend of athletes getting bigger and faster, I think it’s really about efficiency of training,” Capretta tells MensHealth.com. When he's given someone who's genetically gifted, like Arizona Cardinals star Larry Fitzgerald, Capretta is able to put the athlete on a specific training plan that pushes him as fast as he'll go, to get a maximum benefit.

But it’s also about training for the individual, not for the position on the field. “I have an offensive lineman who is 280,” Capretta says. “The mistake is to say you have to gain an unhealthy amount weight. You’ll see an influx of injuries to players like that.

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14 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

Screen_Shot_2017_02_03_at_3.48.18_PM.png

 

https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/a19531098/the-evolution-of-the-football-player/

 

“When we look at the trend of athletes getting bigger and faster, I think it’s really about efficiency of training,” Capretta tells MensHealth.com. When he's given someone who's genetically gifted, like Arizona Cardinals star Larry Fitzgerald, Capretta is able to put the athlete on a specific training plan that pushes him as fast as he'll go, to get a maximum benefit.

But it’s also about training for the individual, not for the position on the field. “I have an offensive lineman who is 280,” Capretta says. “The mistake is to say you have to gain an unhealthy amount weight. You’ll see an influx of injuries to players like that.

I know as a whole 1-53 teams are bigger, stronger, and faster because players 35-53 are in general. Do you realize the 1995 Dallas Cowboys Offensive Line across the board was this:

LT - Tuinei 320 pounds, LG - Larry Allen 335 pounds, C - Ray Donaldson 330 pounds (he was this WT in 1995), RG - Nate Newton 335 pounds, RT - Erik Williams 325 pounds. They would say hold my beer, that was 26 years ago. Larry Allen could bench press 700 pounds - these are all facts. Nobody today can bench press 700 pounds. That is just 1 team I named.

 

I get it as a whole 1-53 you are right, I agree with you and @NewColtsFanbut you guys clearly aren't seeing my point but it is all good.  

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32 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Fair enough, I just think there were plenty of guys back in the late 80's and 90's that could hold their own as far as speed and strength in todays league. The 80's and 90's get too short changed IMO. Yeah and talent wise they may have been better so credit to you there. When I said 75, it is probably more like a couple of hundred but I didn't want to go over board with it lol. Plus it would take me all my day to list that stuff, I would need glasses after a while  See Season 16 GIF by The Simpsons

I’m with you all the way if we’re talking about the quality of the best teams being better. 
 

Pittsburgh in the 70’s

Wash in the 80’s

San Fran in the 80’s and 90’s

Dallas in the 90’s

Chicago in the mid-80’s

NYG in the mud80’s and 90’s

 

The teams were awesome!   Is stack those teams up with anyone.   But lots has changed since then. 

 

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8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I know as a whole 1-53 teams are bigger, stronger, and faster because players 35-53 are in general. Do you realize the 1995 Dallas Cowboys Offensive Line across the board was this:

LT - Tuinei 320 pounds, LG - Larry Allen 335 pounds, C - Ray Donaldson 330 pounds (he was this WT in 1995), RG - Nate Newton 335 pounds, RT - Erik Williams 325 pounds. They would say hold my beer, that was 26 years ago. Larry Allen could bench press 700 pounds - these are all facts. Nobody today can bench press 700 pounds. That is just 1 team I named.

 

I get it as a whole 1-53 you are right, I agree with you and @NewColtsFanbut you guys clearly aren't seeing my point but it is all good.  

It’s not just players 1-53.   It’s teams 1-24 or 28 or 30 and 32 teams.  However many teams there were before several rounds of expansion.

 

In other words, it’s most all players on every team.   The game in general is bigger and faster,  not necessarily better. 

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I think the biggest difference from players in the 70s or 80s or 90s or even early 00s is the year round training players do and the advances in health programs to help them maximize their bodies.  It used to be the point of training camp was to get in football shape.  For the most part guys show up that way now because training for football is a lifestyle now. That’s not a knock on the older guys.  Everything is always advancing and getting better that’s just nature. In another 20 years we will probably look back on today’s athletes and say wow that’s nothing compared to what they are doing now.  
 

Still great players are great.  Take a guy like Jerry Rice.  Say he found the fountain of youth, that Brady has stashed in his basement, I think he would be even better than he was because of advancements in training programs and health science.  

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10 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

It’s not just players 1-53.   It’s teams 1-24 or 28 or 30 and 32 teams.  However many teams there were before several rounds of expansion.

 

In other words, it’s most all players on every team.   The game in general is bigger and faster,  not necessarily better. 

I can no doubt see a huge difference from 70's and even early 80's players compared to now. Hogs of 82 were considered big back then but today they wouldn't be today. I started to see a huge difference around 1987ish/1988ish as far as speed and strength goes and how big players were getting. The 90's really too off.

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47 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think the biggest difference from players in the 70s or 80s or 90s or even early 00s is the year round training players do and the advances in health programs to help them maximize their bodies.  It used to be the point of training camp was to get in football shape.  For the most part guys show up that way now because training for football is a lifestyle now. That’s not a knock on the older guys.  Everything is always advancing and getting better that’s just nature. In another 20 years we will probably look back on today’s athletes and say wow that’s nothing compared to what they are doing now.  
 

Still great players are great.  Take a guy like Jerry Rice.  Say he found the fountain of youth, that Brady has stashed in his basement, I think he would be even better than he was because of advancements in training programs and health science.  

I think a lot of it with me is I compare great teams from the last 10 years to a team like the 1995 Cowboys for example. Forget about talent for a moment but could that team match up with any of the SB winners over the last 10 years strength, speed, and being just as big? I would say yes. Could the 2006 Colts, I would yes again. Take the Patriots for example, their defenses in 2001, 2003, and 2004 looked faster to me than what their 2018 team had. The LB's they had in 2004 were so quick it wasn't even funny when they held us to 3 points in the playoffs. Now take a team like the 72 Dolphins, I would fully agree they would be outmatched by todays teams.  

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7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

You’re decaying something that usnt debatable.

 

Players are bigger and faster today than before.    Not better

 

Telling me you can name 75 guys who were big and fast is worthless when you realize that there were roughly 1250-1500 players in the NFL once upon a time.   Now it’s roughly 2000.   Times have changed. 
 

In 1984 Refrigerator Perry was drafted at 304 pounds.  And the next day a number of teams admitted he was completely off their entire board because he was too heavy.   Now, he’d barely be heavy enough.   Times have changed. 

 

Perry wouldn’t be heavy enough today so he wouldn’t have been drafted? Right! :funny:

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For sure they are bigger and stronger in todays game, but it's all about the money now.  Todays player will sit out with a broken toe nail, yesterdays players would line up with broken bones.  Don't get me wrong, I love watching football, But trying to compare players today with players from the past is impossible. 

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