Colts deserve compensation

[RGIII]

It was a clear flagrant attempt to do damage.. How else can you explain the ripping of of the helmet?

Ripping of the helmet? The only way a player can intentionally and purposefully remove the helmet of another player is by grabbing it and pulling it off via the facemask or underside of the helmet. There are other ways a helmet can come off but a clasping hand is the only way to ensure that it happens if that is your goal. Phillip Daniels did not do that.

In the course of attempting to make the tackle, Daniels tried to get an arm around Manning's shoulders/chest. Due to the fact that Daniels was moving one way and Manning's body was resisting and going in the other direction that arm slipped up, got under the helmet and the helmet was effectively sheared off of Manning's head. Again, none of the markers of an intentional act of ill-will... it's just physics.

Joe Theismann's injury was a freak accident.Peyton Manning's injury was laced with malicious intent.

I see no difference between the two that would point to one being any more malicious than the other. Both were extremely unfortunate hits that you wouldn't wish on anyone, especially as a fellow player.

I for one disagree....that was a two man hit.....been there RG3 That was an attempt at knees and head...you are wrong!

Carter went for the waist, Daniels went for the upper chest. Those were their targets and they had very little conscious control of what happened after initial contact was made.

[BrentMc11]

Ripping of the helmet? The only way a player can intentionally and purposefully remove the helmet of another player is by grabbing it and pulling it off via the facemask or underside of the helmet. There are other ways a helmet can come off but a clasping hand is the only way to ensure that it happens if that is your goal. Phillip Daniels did not do that.

In the course of attempting to make the tackle, Daniels tried to get an arm around Manning's shoulders/chest. Due to the fact that Daniels was moving one way and Manning's body was resisting and going in the other direction that arm slipped up, got under the helmet and the helmet was effectively sheared off of Manning's head. Again, none of the markers of an intentional act of ill-will... it's just physics.

I see no difference between the two that would point to one being any more malicious than the other. Both were extremely unfortunate hits that you wouldn't wish on anyone, especially as a fellow player.

Carter went for the waist, Daniels went for the upper chest. Those were their targets and they had very little conscious control of what happened after initial contact was made.

OK RG3 I play some mean defense too...not gonna argue about William's speech and his numerous bounties. That hit was an attempt to hurt Peyton Manning. You cannot change my mind! Enjoy the Skins....used to like them when I was a kid.

[GoColts8818]

The NFL is not going to open this bag of worms. If they give the Colts something for the hit on Manning than any team in the NFL who has had a player hurt against a team that Williams was the coach for is going to say hey what about us!

Also Williams was busted for doing this with the Saints not the Redskins. While I would agree it's very reasonable to say come on he did it with the Saints it probably means he did other places as well you can't punish other teams for this unless you can prove it happened there too.

Also the NFL has set the standard of punishing those who cheat not compensationing those who were cheated against.

[BrentMc11]

The NFL is not going to open this bag of worms. If they give the Colts something for the hit on Manning than any team in the NFL who has had a player hurt against a team that Williams was the coach for is going to say hey what about us!

Also Williams was busted for doing this with the Saints not the Redskins. While I would agree it's very reasonable to say come on he did it with the Saints it probably means he did other places as well you can't punish other teams for this unless you can prove it happened there too.

Also the NFL has set the standard of punishing those who cheat not compensationing those who were cheated against.

And as head coach of the woeful Bills!

[southwest1]

I watched the video. All I can say is my eyes hurt now. That was terrible to watch. I don't know how they would even begin to figure out how to compensate everyone hurt by this bounty system. I am sure Williams did have this throughout his career. I'm sure he didn't just get to the Saints and come up with it there. I don't know how they would get proof of anything though. There are things people get away with on a daily basis because of lack of proof. I have all the proof I need to know that Williams is (to me) a scum of the earth type of person for what he has done. Putting players careers and future in danger to get a few wins. Trying to make himself look good. He had no regard for the players he was hurting. I will be disgusted if they ever let him coach again. This man should never be aloud back into the NFL or any other coaching job.

Perfect test case for a permanent NFL ban of Gregg Williams IMO. If you don't do for him, what other circumstance dictates, warrants, or mandates a total banishment for the league? The lynch pin for me, is repeatedly lying to Goodell about stopping personal bounties & malicious hits intended to maim, cripple, or almost kill a QB & size that field general up for a body bag. What if 1 of his own kids was hit, leveled, or God forbid severely injured by a cheap shot to the head, neck, or knees? Would Mr. Williams chalk it up to "typical football violence " too?

[Rajput_20]

the redskins should be forced to give us their 2nd overall pick!, lol.

[Jay Kirk]

I remember that hit like it was yesterday and was yelling at the screen. I thought they broke number 18 in two.......thanks for sharing the video, even though I hurt every time I see it. I thought at the time it was an 'intent to mame.'

I agree but truly dont think any thing will come of it,and thats really not right

[Gavin]

Oh no I wasnt thinking that at all, just all the bickering back and forth do to the down time between the draft and everything else related to football and the regular season, that probably means I spend to much time on here Im guessing

[BrentMc11]

Oh no I wasnt thinking that at all, just all the bickering back and forth do to the down time between the draft and everything else related to football and the regular season, that probably means I spend to much time on here Im guessing

Me too. I wanted to make sure you knew I was not arguing. I honestly analyzed the video...I responded after only watching it once. I saw your point and revisited. "After further review...." HA HA HA! I was wrong.

[Ryan Pelley]

Oh geez.... "He hurt our player, we should get pity rewards!" :rolleyes:

[Carolinapantherfan]

YOu shold see the hit roman Harper put on Steve smith in week 6!

[LUCKyday]

Everyone is saying they were head hunting Peyton Manning with that hit, and i saw the video it was just a freak hit they were not trying to hurt Manning. It's like the Theisman (I think I spelled it wrong) Taylor deal, they no one was trying to end his career Just it happens

Edited April 9, 2012 by 21isSuperman

[GoPats]

Has Manning's injury ever been definitively tied to this hit in the first place? Legit question there. I thought it was a long-term, wear-and-tear thing, not a single hit.

Even if it is/was, it's impossible to prove intent. And as others have said, that would open up a giant can of worms. You'd have to investigate every injury that's occured against a Williams-coached defense for the past decade or so (or however long he's been in the coordinator/coach ranks).

[Thewholefnshow28]

Has Manning's injury ever been definitively tied to this hit in the first place? Legit question there. I thought it was a long-term, wear-and-tear thing, not a single hit.

Even if it is/was, it's impossible to prove intent. And as others have said, that would open up a giant can of worms. You'd have to investigate every injury that's occured against a Williams-coached defense for the past decade or so (or however long he's been in the coordinator/coach ranks).

The only thing I have heard is Dungy came out and said that things started happening after this hit, but there no medical evidence that shows the injury lead to this and there is no evidence that Manning had a bounty put on his head. There is some smoke surrounding it since what happened to Gregg in NO, but there is no fire to prove anything.

The idea of compensation is laughable. If the NFL gave us anything then every team in the league that had a player injured while playing Williams would be asking for compensation.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Has Manning's injury ever been definitively tied to this hit in the first place? Legit question there. I thought it was a long-term, wear-and-tear thing, not a single hit.

Even if it is/was, it's impossible to prove intent. And as others have said, that would open up a giant can of worms. You'd have to investigate every injury that's occured against a Williams-coached defense for the past decade or so (or however long he's been in the coordinator/coach ranks).

Manning hasn't come out and pinpointed this hit as the starting point. Dungy has claimed that it is, and I don't anticipate Manning openly discussing it unless it is in a book after he retires.

In my opinion the wear and tear of his career was amplified by that particular play.

No compensation can be given to the player or to the team, it's just up to form our own opinion whether the coach and the players involved were dirty or not. I for one feels Goodell will fail the league if Williams ever coaches again.

[Gavin]

Manning hasn't come out and pinpointed this hit as the starting point. Dungy has claimed that it is, and I don't anticipate Manning openly discussing it unless it is in a book after he retires.

In my opinion the wear and tear of his career was amplified by that particular play.

No compensation can be given to the player or to the team, it's just up to form our own opinion whether the coach and the players involved were dirty or not. I for one feels Goodell will fail the league if Williams ever coaches again.

hes already >>>ed with the rules enough with the helmet to helmet hit call being such a grey area now. hes to wordy with rules (like the more wordy you get the better the rule will be explained-pure silliness) the rule needs to decipher intent not an accidental hit to the helmet, those happen on nearly every play, just look at the JJ Watt hit, perfectly legal, the way I feel about it, to your point, a player knows what hes getting into when he signs up for it, football is a violent sport and many of those players have came away from the sport not in real bad shape and have taken some mean hits, now some players are in bad shape I know, but they signed up for it. Like I said before if Goodell was to go back and look at every hit ever put on a guy to see if he deserves compensation or a team does, then he would never be able to have a life outside of football, I say change the rule to flag the intent with which a guy hit a player not accidental hits

[BrentMc11]

Manning hasn't come out and pinpointed this hit as the starting point. Dungy has claimed that it is, and I don't anticipate Manning openly discussing it unless it is in a book after he retires.

In my opinion the wear and tear of his career was amplified by that particular play.

No compensation can be given to the player or to the team, it's just up to form our own opinion whether the coach and the players involved were dirty or not. I for one feels Goodell will fail the league if Williams ever coaches again.

I love great hits. This was "you go high...I go low....gonna get the Bounty even if it's 2 below..(was gonna sa Tupelo.)"

The 'head of the snake' was torn off. It would have been a suspension by league rule today. The 'wishbone was/is run in college.....Peyton WAS the wishbone.

If Goodell lessens the suspension for any of this nonsense I will be 'hot.'

[FireJimCaldwell]

I love great hits. This was "you go high...I go low....gonna get the Bounty even if it's 2 below..(was gonna sa Tupelo.)"

The 'head of the snake' was torn off. It would have been a suspension by league rule today. The 'wishbone was/is run in college.....Peyton WAS the wishbone.

If Goodell lessens the suspension for any of this nonsense I will be 'hot.'

Agreed on all accounts.

hes already >>>ed with the rules enough with the helmet to helmet hit call being such a grey area now. hes to wordy with rules (like the more wordy you get the better the rule will be explained-pure silliness) the rule needs to decipher intent not an accidental hit to the helmet, those happen on nearly every play, just look at the JJ Watt hit, perfectly legal, the way I feel about it, to your point, a player knows what hes getting into when he signs up for it, football is a violent sport and many of those players have came away from the sport not in real bad shape and have taken some mean hits, now some players are in bad shape I know, but they signed up for it. Like I said before if Goodell was to go back and look at every hit ever put on a guy to see if he deserves compensation or a team does, then he would never be able to have a life outside of football, I say change the rule to flag the intent with which a guy hit a player not accidental hits

I agree. The rules( a lot of rules such a catch going to the ground), need to be overhauled and simplified. The former head of officials that is on fox now, says that the rules committee wants it that the rules are obvious to a group watching a game in a sports bar, and that simply isn't the case.

The thought of compensation just isn't possible, unless there was proof following a game where there is tape like the 49ers/Saints game and a player suffered a serious injury. Too much to police.

[BrentMc11]

Agreed on all accounts.

I agree. The rules( a lot of rules such a catch going to the ground), need to be overhauled and simplified. The former head of officials that is on fox now, says that the rules committee wants it that the rules are obvious to a group watching a game in a sports bar, and that simply isn't the case.

The thought of compensation just isn't possible, unless there was proof following a game where there is tape like the 49ers/Saints game and a player suffered a serious injury. Too much to police.

Correct. No compensation...that is silly. The compensation goes to the league and charity after a fine.

[GoColts8818]

Has Manning's injury ever been definitively tied to this hit in the first place? Legit question there. I thought it was a long-term, wear-and-tear thing, not a single hit.

Even if it is/was, it's impossible to prove intent. And as others have said, that would open up a giant can of worms. You'd have to investigate every injury that's occured against a Williams-coached defense for the past decade or so (or however long he's been in the coordinator/coach ranks).

Dungy said he THINKS Peyton neck injury started there but you are right there is no proof to my knowledge that it did. Like I said before anyways the nfl has a long track record of punishing wrong doers not giving things to those who were hurt by it so even if there was proof as much as it would stink I wouldn't expect the league to give the colts anything. They won't open that can of worms because if they do every team that had a player hurt in a game against Williams is going to say they should get something too.

[Jaric]

Won't happen. You'll open up pandora's box by doing that and anytime a team has a player injured they're going to have their hands out for compensation.

[Dr. T]

Ok, even if the Colts don't get compensation, the Redskins should still be punished.

Let me see, what did the Commish do to the Saints? Oh yeah, they took away their highest draft pick this year!

Uh Oh ....

[Gavin]

Ok, even if the Colts don't get compensation, the Redskins should still be punished.

Let me see, what did the Commish do to the Saints? Oh yeah, they took away their highest draft pick this year!

Uh Oh ....

that wasnt taken away because of the hits in my opinion that was taken away because of the recording

[FireJimCaldwell]

that wasnt taken away because of the hits in my opinion that was taken away because of the recording

I'm not sure the recording was even part of the investgation. That was released after the punishment was handed down.

Ok, even if the Colts don't get compensation, the Redskins should still be punished.

Let me see, what did the Commish do to the Saints? Oh yeah, they took away their highest draft pick this year!

Uh Oh ....

I think Tennessee, Buffalo, Jacksonville & Washington should all be investigated, but the Saints were his most recent team and as time goes on it is harder to punish the current team for actions dating 4-5+ years ago.

[Gavin]

I'm not sure the recording was even part of the investgation. That was released after the punishment was handed down.

I think Tennessee, Buffalo, Jacksonville & Washington should all be investigated, but the Saints were his most recent team and as time goes on it is harder to punish the current team for actions dating 4-5+ years ago.

released to him or the public? big difference, had to be part of the investigation and, without that recording all ya have is heresay

[BrentMc11]

Two things:

1. The tape was released the DAY the Saints met were to meet on the appeal!!

2. It is over! The suspensions are upheld!

[BrentMc11]

I'm not sure the recording was even part of the investgation. That was released after the punishment was handed down.

I think Tennessee, Buffalo, Jacksonville & Washington should all be investigated, but the Saints were his most recent team and as time goes on it is harder to punish the current team for actions dating 4-5+ years ago.

Buffalo and Washington are going to be....not sure on the Jacksonville/Tenn. other than Fisher's love for Williams. Clue me in on JAX!

[FireJimCaldwell]

released to him or the public? big difference, had to be part of the investigation and, without that recording all ya have is heresay

From my understanding they have far more proof than just heresay about more than just that one game. They could have had access first, but the guy that released it hasn't mentioned that to my knowledge.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Buffalo and Washington are going to be....not sure on the Jacksonville/Tenn. other than Fisher's love for Williams. Clue me in on JAX!

Williams spent a year in Jacksonville as DC in 2008.

He was Fisher's DC in Tennessee 97-00

[KaylaD]

Two things:

1. The tape was released the DAY the Saints met were to meet on the appeal!!

2. It is over! The suspensions are upheld!

The suspensions are upheld!!! I am very happy about that. Music to my ears. I would be ticked if they had not!

[KaylaD]

If they keep investigating I'm not sure I even want to hear everything they find. It makes me sick enough with what we do know,and I'm sure we the public only know part of it. I don't even want to imagine everything we don't know.

[BrentMc11]

Williams spent a year in Jacksonville as DC in 2008.

He was Fisher's DC in Tennessee 97-00

OK my friend............time to investigate FISHER! My friends know I want to play 'smash mouth' football. I do not want 'touch' football......no need for specifics on concussion victims or targeting an 'uninjured' player for an ACL!

[BrentMc11]

No compensation needed: Going to start a new topic....enjoy and GOOD Debates!!

[GoPats]

The only thing I have heard is Dungy came out and said that things started happening after this hit, but there no medical evidence that shows the injury lead to this and there is no evidence that Manning had a bounty put on his head. There is some smoke surrounding it since what happened to Gregg in NO, but there is no fire to prove anything.

Manning hasn't come out and pinpointed this hit as the starting point. Dungy has claimed that it is, and I don't anticipate Manning openly discussing it unless it is in a book after he retires.

In my opinion the wear and tear of his career was amplified by that particular play.

No compensation can be given to the player or to the team, it's just up to form our own opinion whether the coach and the players involved were dirty or not. I for one feels Goodell will fail the league if Williams ever coaches again.

Dungy said he THINKS Peyton neck injury started there but you are right there is no proof to my knowledge that it did. Like I said before anyways the nfl has a long track record of punishing wrong doers not giving things to those who were hurt by it so even if there was proof as much as it would stink I wouldn't expect the league to give the colts anything. They won't open that can of worms because if they do every team that had a player hurt in a game against Williams is going to say they should get something too.

Thanks for the responses guys, I wasn't really sure either way. I'm not a doc but watching that hit it doesn't seem like too much of a stretch to say that it's not good for your neck to be bent backwards like that.

And I don't think you guys have to worry about Williams ever coaching in the NFL again. Even if the suspension were lifted, who's going to hire him now that those recordings are out? It would be a PR nightmare for any owner. He'll be lucky if he gets a job coaching at a Division III college.