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With all of this Saints bounty scandal news, everybody seems to be forgetting that Gregg Williams was also the defensive co-ordinator for the Washington Redskins previously, when their DE named Phillip Daniels clearly headhunted Peyton Manning and probably caused his neck injury. Daniels is no longer a player, but still works for the Redskins. Has anyone questioned him? If he was out to injury Peyton at the behest of Williams, the Redskins also need to be placed under the microscope, not just the Saints. And if the Redskins organization condoned this or looked the other way, they owe the Colts compensation for injuring Manning.

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No one forgot this....in fact it has been discussed at length here. I am sure the NFL has looked at this. I would imagine with the time that has passed they will struggle to find hard evidence. Williams has already been suspended indefinitely. I would love compensation for this, however, it opens the door for every other team who had a player injured against the Skins to request compensation (during the Williams period). At the end of the day, this is football.....a violent sport. This type of thing has been happening for years.

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First, I personally think, that "bounty-gate" wasn't investigated in it's full depth, the whole extent of bounties within the NFL hasn't been revealed. Some other teams were also using bounty at some level (however not as high level as Saints did) in recent years. I don't think any further investigation or any action from NFL will occur in connection with bounties. Goodell's sent a strong message to all the teams to forget bounty, but thats all.

On the other hand if Colts, then some other teams may also claim for compensation (like Vikings for Favre etc.), for more it is hard (or maybe impossible) to prove now that Manning (and Colts) was victim of Williams' bounty system at Redskins (however it is very likely).

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No one forgot this....in fact it has been discussed at length here. I am sure the NFL has looked at this. I would imagine with the time that has passed they will struggle to find hard evidence. Williams has already been suspended indefinitely. I would love compensation for this, however, it opens the door for every other team who had a player injured against the Skins to request compensation (during the Williams period). At the end of the day, this is football.....a violent sport. This type of thing has been happening for years.

Football is a tough game, that involves full contact between players, still I don't think bounty, and/or causing injuries intentionally is part of "toughness".

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Wouldn't Manning deserve compensation more than the Colts if it could be proved? I don't think it's provable unless someone comes out and says that they had a bounty on Peyton for that play. Peyton didn't leave the game, so it's doubtful any money was paid out at the time for the injury.

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Wouldn't Manning deserve compensation more than the Colts if it could be proved? I don't think it's provable unless someone comes out and says that they had a bounty on Peyton for that play. Peyton didn't leave the game, so it's doubtful any money was paid out at the time for the injury.

I think at least the players that had been targeted should be able to get compensation yes. Like they get there bills paid for ect. And more. They were out of work casue of this. Like Manning. It could quite possible of ruind the rest of his carrier. We don't know this, yet.

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Football is a tough game, that involves full contact between players, still I don't think bounty, and/or causing injuries intentionally is part of "toughness".

I am not condoning bounties. My point was football is a violent sport and how do you separate what was part of a bounty and what was just a normal game speed occurence. It would be tought to award the Colts compensation without awarding every other team that got a player hurt against the Redskins some kind of compensation.

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Just because Daniels didn't knock Peyton out of the game, there is no question in my mind that he was trying to injure him. Just look at the tape. He held onto his head and twisted him helmut off. I am AMAZED that there was no penalty called. The hit was clearly flagrant. Now it's true that Farve was beat up mercilessly in that playoff game against the Saints, but I do not remember any head shots or hits after the plays were dead. But with this Phillip Daniels play, it was OBVIOUS that he was trying to injure Manning and take him out.

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I am not condoning bounties. My point was football is a violent sport and how do you separate what was part of a bounty and what was just a normal game speed occurence. It would be tought to award the Colts compensation without awarding every other team that got a player hurt against the Redskins some kind of compensation.

Well, it's good that we have actual footage of Williams so now we can at least decide what are the "bounty hits/plays". I would go and say everything he said from the sitting on people knees to head-hunting are the bounty plays. It's a difference between playing to be physical and dominate your opponent and intentionally harming someone and their career. Even in boxing, a sport where you HAVE to dominate you're opponent, the sport does not allow for someone to go through life/career threatening injuries. They will stop the fight before the boxer even goes to work on whatever he is targeting. A boxing coach might tell the boxer to target a weakness (say a cut, broken rib, etc.) but it's for different intentions, not to harm the opponent but actually win the match by making the ref stop the fight. What Williams was trying to was mess with people careers which is a no no.

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It would be nice to see recognition that Daniels was intentionally trying to hurt Peyton. It would also be nice to prove that Williams was doing bounty schemes for most likely his entire NFL coaching career. But sadly, it won't happen.

Since the news of this broke, I knew that Williams had most likely been running schemes like this no matter where he was.--which irritates the heck out of me. :flaming:

I do realize that bounty hunting is more common in the NFL than any of us would like to admit, but I will tell you that I am beyond happy that Commish Goodell has taken a stand and said "NO MORE. IT STOPS HERE." I hope he sticks to his guns regarding all punishment he has issued, and I hope that Williams gets Pete Rose'd from football and is never allowed to coach again--anywhere. :flag:

That would satisfy me. Emensly.

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Yeah...here is the play. I'm not going to go into compensation for that but for it not to be a penalty was rediculous. Those people that said Luck was a "football player" for his tackle...well Peyton was a football player for getting up and coming back into the game for us. He also played several years through the injury at a high level. It is amazing but this year could be his first pain free year since that season. Wonder what he will do?

I never noticed before how he is grabbing his shoulder. Wonder if he was feeling the nerve issues even then?

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With all of this Saints bounty scandal news, everybody seems to be forgetting that Gregg Williams was also the defensive co-ordinator for the Washington Redskins previously, when their DE named Phillip Daniels clearly headhunted Peyton Manning and probably caused his neck injury. Daniels is no longer a player, but still works for the Redskins. Has anyone questioned him? If he was out to injury Peyton at the behest of Williams, the Redskins also need to be placed under the microscope, not just the Saints. And if the Redskins organization condoned this or looked the other way, they owe the Colts compensation for injuring Manning.

Incorrect - was discussed frequently weeks ago.

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well in a round about way, the #1 pick this year (and Andrew Luck) would be the "compensation" that the Colts will receive. If the Redskins were just going for a sack and not actually trying to take Manning out of the game then there's a very real chance he's still the Colts QB and who knows who would have wound up with the #1 pick and Andrew Luck.

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I would think that any player who was injured by a Williams coached defence has a good legal case for compenastion. Teams won't recieve anything. Players could go after the players that injured, coach Williams and the teams that he coached. Some players who had their carrers cut short by Williams could be in for a big pay day.

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Just because Daniels didn't knock Peyton out of the game, there is no question in my mind that he was trying to injure him. Just look at the tape. He held onto his head and twisted him helmut off. I am AMAZED that there was no penalty called. The hit was clearly flagrant. Now it's true that Farve was beat up mercilessly in that playoff game against the Saints, but I do not remember any head shots or hits after the plays were dead. But with this Phillip Daniels play, it was OBVIOUS that he was trying to injure Manning and take him out.

Dr T.... I would stay tuned on all this because the dust really hasn't settled from the Saints organizational punishments..... and I'm guessing that the NFL isn't at all ready to slam shut further investigations. Because this could develop into some really heavy and complicated legal battles, another result of the incentivizing of these vicious hits, and the key factor in why Goodell's punishment was so crushing.

But IMO.... even if someone were to come forward from the 2006 Redskins team and clearly state that the hit on Peyton was driven by a bounty payment or the existence of a bounty program at the time I'm not gonna hold my breath as far as any organizational compensation coming our way.

Lost draft picks and fines or suspensions for the Redskins? Sure.... if there was organizational knowledge of Williams conducting the same thing there, but I don't believe we'd be awarded anything.

Now...... criminal and civil charges are a completely different case and I believe there could be an avalanche of them after all of the current league action is settled.... and clearly why the NFLPA has advised its members to "lawyer up" if they have been involved in any way.

I was very surprised to hear Roger Cossack, who is ESPNs legal expert, say that there probably wouldn't be any successful criminal or civil charges that arise out of this because "football is an inherently dangerous game". My response to Roger Cossack would be if he thinks NHL hockey is an inherently dangerous game?

Because I can remember two incidents in the NHL involving Marty McSorely slashing Donald Brashear in the head and giving him a Grade 3 concussion.... and Todd Bertuzzi attacking and maiming Steve Moore in 2004, causing 3 fractured vertebrae in his neck and a grade 3 concussion, and forcing Moore to retire from the sport. Both of those cases saw court action and the financial compensation piece of the Bertuzzi case is STILL being litigated. McSorely was convicted of assault and never played another NHL game.

So if NHL hockey.... a sport that actually provides for 5 minute major penalties for fighting, and we've all seen some very nasty ones, can have court action result from violent incidents among some of its more aggressive players like Bertuzzi, McSorely and Brashear.... who in spite of being the victim was a thug himself.... then I would say that the Saints or any other NFL team that it can be proved took part in a bounty system that was ignored and may have been sanctioned by a defiant GM and Head Coach with a "wink and a nod" better buckle up their seat belts.

If the same thing weere to carry back to WIlliams' days in Washington then they'd be in hot water as well.

I'm not sure whether or not Peyton would ever lead or take part in any legal action even if evidence of a bounty on him by the Skins were to be revealed.... he tends to have the overall welfare and image of the NFL in mind and he certainly doesn't need the money.... but the larger principle of paid thuggery HAS to be addressed, and as harsh as Goodell has been on the Saints, the commissioner and the NFLPA see the warning signs of some very nasty legal battles perhaps from lower paid and lower profile players than Manning, but who truly did have their livelihoods jeopardized.

So I can see a very complicated and long legal mess arising out of this, but direct compensation awarded by the NFL to us from the Redskins would surprise me.

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I have not seen the video since that day. I choose to not watch it again even though it was provided here, because my soul does not need the anguish of visual revisiting it. Thanks for the link but I'll pass.

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I have not seen the video since that day. I choose to not watch it again even though it was provided here, because my soul does not need the anguish of visual revisiting it. Thanks for the link but I'll pass.

I have never watched it since as well. However, given the topic I thought people should see the severity of the hit. I watched it in awe at how Peyton could just take a series off and then come back and play. Just another example of his strength. In another thread people were praising Luck on being a true "football" player by making a tackle yet I just hope he can take a hit like Peyton and stay on the field. I have no reason to think Luck will be skiddish in the pocket like Gabbert or be injury prone but I also have only faith/prayer in that he won't either. He has yet to play a down and I just hope he has some of that Peyton grit and determination and drive.
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I agree that it is an important reminder of the bad place that this league has been heading in some circles. I really hope that this kind of thing is lessened severely, although I think it will remain to some degree with those who choose to do it under the table or simple act as an individual.

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Yeah...here is the play. I'm not going to go into compensation for that but for it not to be a penalty was rediculous. Those people that said Luck was a "football player" for his tackle...well Peyton was a football player for getting up and coming back into the game for us. He also played several years through the injury at a high level. It is amazing but this year could be his first pain free year since that season. Wonder what he will do?

I never noticed before how he is grabbing his shoulder. Wonder if he was feeling the nerve issues even then?

I remember that hit like it was yesterday and was yelling at the screen. I thought they broke number 18 in two.......thanks for sharing the video, even though I hurt every time I see it. I thought at the time it was an 'intent to mame.'
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I watched the video. All I can say is my eyes hurt now. :( That was terrible to watch. I don't know how they would even begin to figure out how to compensate everyone hurt by this bounty system. I am sure Williams did have this throughout his career. I'm sure he didn't just get to the Saints and come up with it there. I don't know how they would get proof of anything though. There are things people get away with on a daily basis because of lack of proof. I have all the proof I need to know that Williams is (to me) a scum of the earth type of person for what he has done. Putting players careers and future in danger to get a few wins. Trying to make himself look good. He had no regard for the players he was hurting. I will be disgusted if they ever let him coach again. This man should never be aloud back into the NFL or any other coaching job.

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I watched the video. All I can say is my eyes hurt now. :( That was terrible to watch. I don't know how they would even begin to figure out how to compensate everyone hurt by this bounty system. I am sure Williams did have this throughout his career. I'm sure he didn't just get to the Saints and come up with it there. I don't know how they would get proof of anything though. There are things people get away with on a daily basis because of lack of proof. I have all the proof I need to know that Williams is (to me) a scum of the earth type of person for what he has done. Putting players careers and future in danger to get a few wins. Trying to make himself look good. He had no regard for the players he was hurting. I will be disgusted if they ever let him coach again. This man should never be aloud back into the NFL or any other coaching job.

The thug mentality did not help him when he was with the horrendous Buffalo Bills. The intent to mame....needs to needs to go away. Good hard clean hits! No mention of ACL, concussion ridden players...specifics are the darning 'finality' for Williams.
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The thug mentality did not help him when he was with the horrendous Buffalo Bills. The intent to mame....needs to needs to go away. Good hard clean hits! No mention of ACL, concussion ridden players...specifics are the darning 'finality' for Williams.

Yes, the specifics just does him in. How can anyone hear that and not be disturbed? I truly felt sick listening to that. I also wonder why there were no players or other coaches who stepped up and said, This is not right. This has to stop. Why did no one have a conscious about this? I know Payton and other staff had knowledge. That whole defense he has going on is completely ludicrous! No one is buying that crap he is trying to sell.

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Neither the Colts nor Manning deserve squat in the way of compensation for that play. Football is a tough sport and occasionally things like that will happen, there's really no foolproof way of preventing it. As far as Bountygate is concerned, though...

It's asinine to believe that what happened to Peyton on that play was intentional. I know that looking for someone to blame is only natural and Gregg Williams certainly does seem to fit the bill of the villain as of late but it's a massive leap to say that Phillip Daniels wanted Manning hurt. Daniels is one of the NFL's legitimately good guys and, for that matter, so is the guy responsible for tying Peyton's legs up (Andre Carter). It's an ugly hit because of the way Peyton got bent backwards but it wasn't particularly vicious. Daniels didn't launch himself at Peyton or go for the head or anything, he just tried to wrap up a QB who was still trying to get rid of the ball and very likely wasn't aware of the fact that Peyton was tied up and in a compromising position until it was too late.

The key elements that usually signify a dirty play are all missing from the equation. PeytonGirl said it pretty well in another thread...

The main player involved in that certainly would not have been a part of a bounty program. Daniels was horrified that Peyton was hurt and distraught, going to him and Coach Dungy several times to see if things were okay. It was a freak accident when one player went high and one went low. Daniels has always been blamed for that and I was there and have never thought he did it purposely. Not even now.

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Sorry Willy. I didn't see the post.

But seeing that Daniels hit again makes me SO MAD! :flaming:

No problem - it was discussed when the scandal first arose.

And yes, that hit makes many of us mad! It seems pretty clear to me now why that hit was so extreme.

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Neither the Colts nor Manning deserve squat in the way of compensation for that play. Football is a tough sport and occasionally things like that will happen, there's really no foolproof way of preventing it. As far as Bountygate is concerned, though...

It's asinine to believe that what happened to Peyton on that play was intentional. I know that looking for someone to blame is only natural and Gregg Williams certainly does seem to fit the bill of the villain as of late but it's a massive leap to say that Phillip Daniels wanted Manning hurt. Daniels is one of the NFL's legitimately good guys and, for that matter, so is the guy responsible for tying Peyton's legs up (Andre Carter). It's an ugly hit because of the way Peyton got bent backwards but it wasn't particularly vicious. Daniels didn't launch himself at Peyton or go for the head or anything, he just tried to wrap up a QB who was still trying to get rid of the ball and very likely wasn't aware of the fact that Peyton was tied up and in a compromising position until it was too late.

The key elements that usually signify a dirty play are all missing from the equation. PeytonGirl said it pretty well in another thread...

I for one disagree....that was a two man hit.....been there RG3 That was an attempt at knees and head...you are wrong!
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Neither the Colts nor Manning deserve squat in the way of compensation for that play. Football is a tough sport and occasionally things like that will happen, there's really no foolproof way of preventing it. As far as Bountygate is concerned, though...

It's asinine to believe that what happened to Peyton on that play was intentional. I know that looking for someone to blame is only natural and Gregg Williams certainly does seem to fit the bill of the villain as of late but it's a massive leap to say that Phillip Daniels wanted Manning hurt. Daniels is one of the NFL's legitimately good guys and, for that matter, so is the guy responsible for tying Peyton's legs up (Andre Carter). It's an ugly hit because of the way Peyton got bent backwards but it wasn't particularly vicious. Daniels didn't launch himself at Peyton or go for the head or anything, he just tried to wrap up a QB who was still trying to get rid of the ball and very likely wasn't aware of the fact that Peyton was tied up and in a compromising position until it was too late.

The key elements that usually signify a dirty play are all missing from the equation. PeytonGirl said it pretty well in another thread...

It was a clear flagrant attempt to do damage.. How else can you explain the ripping of of the helmet?

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If Goodell started going back and fining everyone who put a bad hit on everyone he would be their for a LONG time, their is SO MUCH grey area with the late hit and helmet to helmet hit now the rule fails to realize that when two bodies collide the head will be jostled or whipped back do to the force of the collision thats why football is a collision sport and do to the head whipping back and the size of the helmet itself, helmet to helmet is unavoidable if your going to PROPERLY tackle someone, what the rule needs to do is eliminate hits like the Merriweather hit on Todd Heap NOT silly accidental contact helmet to helmet hits like JJ Watt did on Orlovsky

Terrible Call and the rule needs changed to clarified to distinguish between the two types of hits, cause helmet to helmet is unavoidable, cheap shots arent, its only a matter of rewording the rule, not hard at all

type of hit needs to be eliminated from the game
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If Goodell started going back and fining everyone who put a bad hit on everyone he would be their for a LONG time, their is SO MUCH grey area with the late hit and helmet to helmet hit now the rule fails to realize that when two bodies collide the head will be jostled or whipped back do to the force of the collision thats why football is a collision sport and do to the head whipping back and the size of the helmet itself, helmet to helmet is unavoidable if your going to PROPERLY tackle someone, what the rule needs to do is eliminate hits like the Merriweather hit on Todd Heap NOT silly accidental contact helmet to helmet hits like JJ Watt did on Orlovsky

Terrible Call and the rule needs changed to clarified to distinguish between the two types of hits, cause helmet to helmet is unavoidable, cheap shots arent, its only a matter of rewording the rule, not hard at all

type of hit needs to be eliminated from the game

Great videos to compare. My feeling is that they are both clean. You have a DB flying to the ball in one, and the hit on Orlovsky is clean as a whistle. The first one is a penalty, but not intentional. Peytons was an intent to mame.....been there Gavin!!
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Great videos to compare. My feeling is that they are both clean. You have a DB flying to the ball in one, and the hit on Orlovsky is clean as a whistle. The first one is a penalty, but not intentional. Peytons was an intent to mame.....been there Gavin!!

I disagree, i think the Merriweather hit was dirty. He launched his head right at heaps head.

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I disagree, i think the Merriweather hit was dirty. He launched his head right at heaps head.

I looked at it 5 times, and I now agree he was aiming at the head. He did launch. After further review, 15 yds and a fine by Goodell. I can admit when I am wrong....he did....look at the ball...that is what the officials saw and I did at first! I had to watch it 5 times....look as an official...not just a the head.
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Neither the Colts nor Manning deserve squat in the way of compensation for that play.  Football is a tough sport and occasionally things like that will happen, there's really no foolproof way of preventing it.  As far as Bountygate is concerned, though...

It's asinine to believe that what happened to Peyton on that play was intentional. I know that looking for someone to blame is only natural and Gregg Williams certainly does seem to fit the bill of the villain as of late but it's a massive leap to say that Phillip Daniels wanted Manning hurt.  Daniels is one of the NFL's legitimately good guys and, for that matter, so is the guy responsible for tying Peyton's legs up (Andre Carter).  It's an ugly hit because of the way Peyton got bent backwards but it wasn't particularly vicious.  Daniels didn't launch himself at Peyton or go for the head or anything, he just tried to wrap up a QB who was still trying to get rid of the ball and very likely wasn't aware of the fact that Peyton was tied up and in a compromising position until it was too late.

The key elements that usually signify a dirty play are all missing from the equation.  PeytonGirl said it pretty well in another thread...

Joe Theismann's injury was a freak accident.Peyton Manning's injury was laced with malicious intent.

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Merriweather came to a full stop and turned then reared back and didnt use any hands at all and blasted him directly in the head I think

I agree after looking 5 times....he launched. This is a nice comparison. You can see how officials 'tow the line.'
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I agree after looking 5 times....he launched. This is a nice comparison. You can see how officials 'tow the line.'

the offseason especially up to the Draft is entirely to long for us fans to go around and around about the same ideas, I tell ya thats part of what starts arguments, not the biggest reason but a small part
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the offseason especially up to the Draft is entirely to long for us fans to go around and around about the same ideas, I tell ya thats part of what starts arguments, not the biggest reason but a small part

I was watching the video....thinking about the Peyton hit. I was in no way starting an argument if you thought that????? I am all for great hits...like I said been there. Sorry if you thought I was starting an argument. Your videos were a great compare and contrast!
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Daviyon Nixon           Iowa      DL3T      6'3"        305 29.   Richie Grant               UCF        S              6'0"        194 30.   Azeez Ojulari              Georgia EDGE     6'3"        240 31.   Nick Bolton Missouri               ILB          6'0"        235 32.   Alijah Vera-Tucker   USC        OG         6'4"        315 33.   Najee Harris               Alabama              RB           6'2"        230 34.   Kyle Trask    Florida  QB          6'4''        240 35.   Terrace Marshall      LSU        WR         6'3"        200 36.   Zaven Collins              Tulsa      OLB        6'4''        260 37.   Joseph Ossai              Texas    EDGE     6'4"        253 38.   Alex Leatherwood   Alabama              OT          6'6"        312 39.   Trey Smith  Tennessee          OG         6'6"        330 40.   Creed Humphrey     Oklahoma           OC          6'5"        320 41.   Tyson Campbell        Georgia CB           6'2"        180 42.   Jay Tufele    USC        DL3T      6'2"        310 43.   Andre Cisco Syracuse              S              6'0"        203 44.   Jalen Mayfield           Michigan              OT          6'5"        320 45.   Marvin Wilson           Florida State       DL1T      6'3"        319 46.   Dylan Moses              Alabama              OLB        6'3"        235 47.   Pat Freiermuth         Penn State          TE           6'5"        250 48.   Jayson Oweh             Penn State          EDGE     6'5"        257 49.   Greg Newsome II     Northwestern   CB           6'1"        190 50.   Tylan Wallace             Oklahoma State WR         6'0"        185 51.   Carlos Basham Jr.     Wake Forest       DL5T      6'5"        285 52.   Jabril Cox     LSU        OLB        6'2"        233 53.   Tyler Shelvin              LSU        DL1T      6'3"        346 54.   Kadarius Toney         Florida  WR         5'11''      190 55.   Elijah Molden            Washington        CB           5'10"      186 56.   Elijah Moore              Ole Miss               WRS       5'9"        184 57.   Ben Cleveland           Georgia OG         6'6"        335 58.   Jevon Holland            Oregon S              6'1"        196 59.   Landon Dickerson    Alabama              OC          6'6''        325 60.   Jaylen Twyman         Pitt         DL5T      6'2"        290 61.   Shakur Brown            Michigan State  CB           5'11"      190 62.   Alim McNeill               North Carolina State       DL3T      6'2"        320 63.   Hamsah Nasirildeen Florida State       S              6'4"        215 64.   Jaelan Phillips             Miami (FL)           EDGE     6'5"        255 65.   Shaun Wade               Ohio State           CB           6'1"        194 66.   Kenneth Gainwell    Memphis             RB           5'11"      191 67.   Patrick Jones II          Pitt         EDGE     6'5"        260 68.   Amon-Ra St. Brown USC        WR         6'1"        195 69.   Cameron McGrone Michigan              OLB        6'1''        232 70.   Darius Stills West Virginia      DL5T      6'1"        285 71.   Jackson Carman        Clemson              OT          6'5"        335 72.   Joe Tryon     Washington        EDGE     6'5"        262 73.   Ifeatu Melifonwu     Syracuse              CB           6'3"        212 74.   Talanoa Hufanga      USC        S              6'1"        215 75.   Chazz Surratt              North Carolina   OLB        6'3"        230 76.   Josh Myers Ohio State           OC          6'5''        312 77.   Liam Eichenberg       Notre Dame       OT          6'6"        302 78.   Trey Sermon              Ohio State           RB           6'0"        224 79.   Javonte Williams       North Carolina   RB           5'10"      220 80.   Marlon Williams        UCF        WR         6'0"        215 81.   Michael Carter          North Carolina   RBC        5'9"        195 82.   Paris Ford    Pittsburgh           S              6'0"        190 83.   Levi Onwuzurike      Washington        DL3T      6'3"        293 84.   Dillon Radunz            North Dakota State         OT          6'6''        299 85.   Brevin Jordan            Miami (FL)           TE           6'3"        245 86.   Deonte Brown           Alabama              OG         6'4''        350 87.   Walker Little               Stanford              OT          6'7"        313 88.   Hamilcar Rashed      Oregon State     EDGE     6'3''        248 89.   Chuba Hubbard         Oklahoma State RB           6'1"        207 90.   D'Wayne Eskridge    W Michigan        WRS       5'9"        188 91.   Quincy Roche            Miami (FL)           EDGE     6'4"        235 92.   Anthony Schwartz   Auburn WR         6'0"        197 93.   Jamie Newman         Georgia QB          6'4"        230 94.   Jaelon Darden           North Texas        WRS       5'9"        174 95.   Dyami Brown             North Carolina   WR         6'1"        185 96.   Teven Jenkins            Oklahoma State OT          6'6''        320 97.   Seth Williams             Auburn WR         6'2"        224 98.   Tutu Atwell Louisville              WRS       5'9"        156 99.   Baron Browning        Ohio State           ILB          6'3"        248 100.           Ronnie Perkins  Oklahoma           OLB        6'4'         230 101.           Dazz Newsome North Carolina   WR         5'11"      175 102.           Paulson Adebo  Stanford              CB           6'1"        190 103.           Richard LeCounte III        Georgia S              5'11"      190 104.           Damonte Coxie Memphis             WR         6'3''        197 105.           Aaron Robinson UCF        CB           5'11''      193 106.           Jaret Patterson Buffalo RB           5'9"        195 107.           Drake Jackson    Kentucky             OC          6'2''        292 108.           Sage Surratt        Wake Forest       WR         6'2"        215 109.           Dayo Odeyingbo              Vanderbilt           DL5T      6'5''        279 110.           Israel Mukuamu               South Carolina   CB           6'3"        205 111.           Hunter Long       Boston College  TE           6'5"        253 112.           Kenny Yeboah   Ole Miss               TE           6'4''        240 113.           Marlon Tuipulotu             USC        DL3T      6'1"        308 114.           Divine Deablo    Virginia Tech      S              6'3''        226 115.           Khalil Herbert    Virginia Tech      RBC        5'9"        205 116.           Rashad Weaver Pitt         EDGE     6'5"        270 117.           Eric Stokes          Georgia CB           6'1"        185 118.           Ar'Darius Washington    TCU        S              5'8"        175 119.           Aaron Banks       Notre Dame       OG         6'5"        330 120.           Pete Werner      Ohio State           ILB          6'3''        239 121.           Chris Rumph II   Duke     EDGE     6'3"        225 122.           Tony Poljan        Virginia TE           6'7"        265 123.           Trey Hill                Georgia OC          6'4"        330 124.           Cary Angeline    North Carolina State       TE           6'7"        250 125.           Ihmir Smith-Marsette    Iowa      WR         6'2"        175 126.           Kylin Hill               Mississippi State               RB           5'11"      215 127.           Charles Snowden             Virginia OLB        6'6"        232 128.           Caden Sterns     Texas    S              6'0"        210 129.           Rodarius Williams             Oklahoma State CB           6'0"        193 130.           Quinn Meinerz  UW-Whitewater              OC          6'3"        320 131.           Keith Taylor        Washington        CB           6'3"        191 132.           Elijah Mitchell    Louisiana             RB           5'11"      221 133.           Tedarrell Slaton Florida  DL1T      6'5"        358 134.           Pooka Williams  Kansas  RBC        5'10"      170 135.           Olaijah Griffin    USC        CB           6'0''        170 136.           Torrance Marable            Coastal Carolina                RBC        5'10"      200 137.           Damon Hazelton              Missouri               WR         6'2"        215 138.           Tariq Thompson               San Diego State S              6'0"        200 139.           Ta'Quon Graham              Texas    DL3T      6'4"        294 140.           K.J. Britt                Auburn ILB          6'0"        236 141.           Monty Rice         Georgia OLB        6'1"        235 142.           Kylen Granson   SMU      TE           6'2''        235 143.           Kellen Mond      Texas A&M         QB          6'3"        217 144.           Paddy Fisher      Northwestern   ILB          6'4"        246 145.           Amari Rodgers  Clemson              WR         5'9"        210 146.           Jamien Sherwood            Auburn S              6'2''        220 147.           Max Duffy           Kentucky             P             6'1"        185 148.           Spencer K. Brown             Northern Iowa  OT          6'9''        321 149.           Nico Collins         Michigan              WR         6'4"        222 150.           Tommy Togiai    Ohio State           DL3T      6'2"        300 151.           JaCoby Stevens LSU        S              6'1''        228 152.           Jordan Smith      UAB       EDGE     6'7"        255 153.           Tyler Vaughns   USC        WR         6'2"        190 154.           Jack Anderson   Texas Tech          OG         6'5"        315 155.           Bobby Brown III Texas A&M         DL1T      6'3"        325 156.           Darren Hall          San Diego State CB           6'0"        190 157.           Donovan Stiner Florida  S              6'1"        203 158.           Wyatt Hubert    Kansas State       EDGE     6'3"        270 159.           Thomas Graham Jr.         Oregon CB           5'10"      193 160.           Shemar Jean-Charles      Appalachian State            CB           5'11"      190 161.           Malik Herring     Georgia DL5T      6'3"        283 162.           Daelin Hayes      Notre Dame       EDGE     6'4"        268 163.           Tommy Kraemer              Notre Dame       OG         6'6"        317 164.           Marco Wilson    Florida  CB           6'0"        190 165.           Trill Williams       Syracuse              CB           6'2'         198 166.           Shaka Toney       Penn State          EDGE     6'3"        243 167.           Jimmy Morrissey              Pitt         OC          6'3"        305 168.           Sam Ehlinger      Texas    QB          6'3"        225 169.           Sadarius Hutcherson      South Carolina   OG         6'4"        320 170.           D.J. Daniel           Georgia CB           6'0''        183 171.           Camryn Bynum Cal          CB           6'0''        198 172.           Jermar Jefferson              Oregon State     RBC        5'9"        215 173.           Jose Borregales Miami (FL)           PK           5'10"      205 174.           Alaric Jackson    Iowa      OT          6'6"        315 175.           Brennan Eagles Texas    WR         6'2"        225 176.           Tommy Doyle    Miami (OH)         OT          6'8''        326 177.           Jonathan Marshall           Arkansas              DL1T      6'3"        317 178.           Shane Buechele SMU      QB          6'1"        207 179.           Joshua Kaindoh Florida State       EDGE     6'7"        261 180.           James Hudson   Cincinnati            OT          6'5"        310 181.           Benjamin St-Juste            Minnesota          CB           6'3"        200 182.           Demetric Felton                UCLA     RBC        5'9"        189 183.           Victor Dimukeje Duke     EDGE     6'2"        265 184.           Xavier Kelly         Arkansas              DL3T      6'4"        305 185.           Kary Vincent Jr. LSU        CB           5'10"      182 186.           Noah Gray           Duke     TE           6'4"        240 187.           Adrian Ealy          Oklahoma           OT          6'6"        327 188.           Michal Menet   Penn State          OC          6'4''        305 189.           Pressley Harvin III            Georgia Tech      P             6'0"        255 190.           Amen Ogbongbemiga    Oklahoma State OLB        6'1"        231 191.           T.J. Vasher          Texas Tech          WR         6'6"        210 192.           Josh Imatorbhebhe         Illinois   WR         6'2"        215 193.           Matt Bushman  BYU        TE           6'5"        245 194.           Stevie Scott        Indiana RB           6'2"        231 195.           Brady Christensen           BYU        OT          6'6''        300 196.           Quintin Morris   Bowling Green  TE           6'4"        248 197.           Riley Patterson Memphis             PK           6'0"        190 198.           Malcolm Koonce              Buffalo EDGE     6'3"        250 199.           Robert Rochell   Central Arkansas              CB           6'0''        195 200.           Ben Mason         Michigan              FB           6'3"        254
    • It's kind of like comparing what I did in the bathroom to what you did in the bathroom, but Collins played worse than Painter in 2011, on the same team, with the same staff. I didn't say Painter played better, because that word doesn't seem appropriate here. But I thought Collins was clearly worse, and a bad fit for our offense at the time.   It was always weird to bring Collins in as the starter the way they did. I get signing him. Making him the starter wasn't a good idea. Of course, the alternative was Curtis Painter, so it probably wouldn't have mattered.
    • Round 4 97.   Jacksonville (1-15) - Javonte Williams, RB, North Carolina 98.   NY Jets (2-14) - Chubba Hubbard, RB, Oklahoma State 99.   Atlanta (4-12) - Paris Ford, S, Pittsburgh 100.  New Orleans from Houston (4-12) - Dyami Brown, WR, North Carolina 101.  Cleveland - from Philadelphia (4-11-1) - Hamilcar Rashed, EDGE, Oregon 102.  Cincinnati (4-11-1) - Tutu Atwell, WR, Louisville 103.  Detroit (5-11) 104.  New Orleans from Houston from Carolina (5-11) 105.  Denver (5-11) 106.  Dallas (6-10) 107.  NY Giants (6-10) 108.  San Francisco (6-10) 109.  LA Chargers (7-9) 110.  Minnesota (7-9) 111.  LA Chargers from New England (7-9) 112.  Las Vegas from Miami - from Las Vegas (8-8) 113.  Eagles from Carolina from Houston - from Arizona (8-8) 114.  Miami (10-6) 115.  WFT* (7-9) 116.  Minnesota - from Chicago* (8-8) 117.  Tennessee* (11-5) 118.  Las Vegas from Indianapolis* (11-5) 119.  Pittsburgh* (12-4) 120.  Seattle* (12-4) 121.  Jacksonville - from LA Rams* (10-6) 122.  Baltimore* (11-5) 123.  Chicago from Cleveland* (11-5) 124.  New Orleans* (12-4) 125.  Minnesota - from Buffalo* (13-3) 126.  Green Bay* (13-3) 127.  Kansas City* (14-2) 128.  Tampa Bay* (11-5)     Arizona -> Houston: De'Andre Hopkins Buffalo -> Minnesota: Stefon Diggs Chicago -> Minnesota: 2020 picks LA Rams -> Jacksonville: Jalen Ramsey Philadelphia -> Cleveland: Genard Avery Las Vegas -> Miami: Raekwon McMillan Miami -> Las Vegas: Lynn Bowden Jr. Carolina -> Houston: Tua trade Houston -> Carolina: Tua trade Carolina -> Eagles: Zach Ertz trade Indianapolis -> Las Vegas: Carr trade New England -> LA Chargers: Patrick Surtain Cleveland -> Chicago: Jarvis Landry trade Houston -> New Orleans: Lattimore trade
    • Since the Manning era started...I think so. At least his stats as a starting QB for the Colts would seem to indicate that. But overall, Painter and Tolzien were worse QBs.    
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