Xavien Howard and his agent have requested a trade

[DownHillRunner]

Says he's not valued or respected by the Dolphins organization. Xavien Howard was a 1st team All Pro CB in 2020. This would be huge if the Dolphins indeed trade him. 1. It removes a top 3 CB in the NFL from their defense, 2. They don't have anyone in house to replace him, 3. I believe the price tag will be high to acquire him. Before anyone says Ballard should trade for him; giving him a new contract would be tough given all the contracts Ballard has to give his own players. Also, minimal draft capital to acquire him. Goes to show you, some organizations are not run properly. Why wouldn't you take care of your All Pro corner who is in the prime of his career? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Blueblood23]

8 minutes ago, DownHillRunner said:

Says he's not valued or respected by the Dolphins organization. Xavien Howard was a 1st team All Pro CB in 2020. This would be huge if the Dolphins indeed trade him. 1. It removes a top 3 CB in the NFL from their defense, 2. They don't have anyone in house to replace him, 3. I believe the price tag will be high to acquire him. Before anyone says Ballard should trade for him; giving him a new contract would be tough given all the contracts Ballard has to give his own players. Also, minimal draft capital to acquire him. Goes to show you, some organizations are not run properly. Why wouldn't you take care of your All Pro corner who is in the prime of his career? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He should be mad at his agent then. Did the Dolphins put a gun to his head to sign the contract? He signed it so honor it and quit complaining about it. Sick and tired of these pampered athletes crying over something they did to themselves and now what to blame the organization.

[DownHillRunner]

36 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

He should be mad at his agent then. Did the Dolphins put a gun to his head to sign the contract? He signed it so honor it and quit complaining about it. Sick and tired of these pampered athletes crying over something they did to themselves and now what to blame the organization.

 

 

Would you be crying if you were a 1st team All Pro CB who is grossly underpaid? It's not about being pampered, its about earning your money in this league. That is what he has done. 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, DownHillRunner said:

Says he's not valued or respected by the Dolphins organization. Xavien Howard was a 1st team All Pro CB in 2020. This would be huge if the Dolphins indeed trade him. 1. It removes a top 3 CB in the NFL from their defense, 2. They don't have anyone in house to replace him, 3. I believe the price tag will be high to acquire him. Before anyone says Ballard should trade for him; giving him a new contract would be tough given all the contracts Ballard has to give his own players. Also, minimal draft capital to acquire him. Goes to show you, some organizations are not run properly. Why wouldn't you take care of your All Pro corner who is in the prime of his career? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, but I don’t think this is as simple as you’re making this out to be.  
 

Howard is just two years in to a six year contract, 5 new additional Years added on to the last year of his last year of his rookie contract.   They signed it.   
 

There are still FOUR years left in this deal.   I’m not aware of any team that reworks a deal with four years left.   That said, Howard has clearly out-performed his deal.   Is that Miami’s fault?

 

Say yes to re-doing this deal and players will line up outside the GM’s door for years to come to re-work their contracts. They are screwed either way.   It’s very complicated.   It’s not as simple and straight forward as just re-doing this deal.  
 

Im sure Ballard doesn’t envy the Dolphins GM one bit. 

[Blueblood23]

31 minutes ago, DownHillRunner said:

 

 

Would you be crying if you were a 1st team All Pro CB who is grossly underpaid? It's not about being pampered, its about earning your money in this league. That is what he has done. 

Man up and honor the contract that he signed. Don’t sign for multiple years then. He is to blame along with the agent.  It’s that simple.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I can see both sides. Give him some more guaranteed money and make him happy. But then again he did sign this contract.  A good organization will make their star players happy as long as it isn’t unreasonable.

[Four2itus]

How is signing for 75 million feeling disrespected? I'm all for players getting paid. He is getting paid. 

[TomDiggs]

This is why what Ballard says rings true......you need to have the locker room in the right place before you can bring in outside guys and pay them. And it has to be the right guy.

 

If you are going to bring in a CB and pay him $14M annually with basically $54M that you are going to have to pay him over the next 3 years (What Miami did with Byron Jones), then you have to see how your All-Pro current CB who is making $12M a year and who basically has no money guaranteed and is essentially year-to-year after this season could get upset. 

 

Especially when he outplayed that contract figure the previous year.

 

I am all for a guy living up to his contract and the "he signed it" stuff. But the NFL is a different league than MLB or the NBA. The moment these guys don't justify their contract that both they and the team signed, the team walks away and pays them nothing. 

 

Even the dead cap hits are usually tied to the signing bonus or guarantees that have often already been paid out. So the player cuts cut with no new money going into his pocket.

 

With how short their careers are, these guys need to basically re-negotiate every time they play well enough to out-perform their contract because the moment they under-perform it they are gone and never see the $ they thought they were getting when signed.

 

End of the day you have Howard ticked off after the Jones signing and you have Chandler Jones ticked off after the JJ Watt signing.

 

That is exactly why Ballard is spot on with saying they are picking and choosing their investments and much prefer to pay guys from within who earned it.

 

 

[CR91]

If I'm the dolphins, I'd trade Howard, Tua, and two first round picks for Watson

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, CR91 said:

If I'm the dolphins, I'd trade Howard, Tua, and two first round picks for Watson

You’d do it without knowing if he’s going to jail?   Without knowing if the NFL will suspend him?     This story with the accusers is NOT over.   Not even close. 

[Yoshinator]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

You’d do it without knowing if he’s going to jail?   Without knowing if the NFL will suspend him?     This story with the accusers is NOT over.   Not even close. 

Agreed. The most I'd give up for him are fully conditional picks based on if he goes to jail or gets suspended by the league. If he goes to jail, every pick is returned. If he gets suspended by the league but doesn't go to jail, maybe get a certain amount of picks back based on how long he got suspended for. 

 

Any team that trades for Watson is going to have to protect themselves and have major insurance in case something goes wrong. I can't even imagine trading a major player in this deal and having Deshaun go to jail or something.

[throwing BBZ]

 It makes sense for them to find ways to add $5m or so to this season.

A Great move by Ballard would be Leonard for Howard. 

  Thoughts haha!

 

[Blueblood23]

8 hours ago, TomDiggs said:

This is why what Ballard says rings true......you need to have the locker room in the right place before you can bring in outside guys and pay them. And it has to be the right guy.

 

If you are going to bring in a CB and pay him $14M annually with basically $54M that you are going to have to pay him over the next 3 years (What Miami did with Byron Jones), then you have to see how your All-Pro current CB who is making $12M a year and who basically has no money guaranteed and is essentially year-to-year after this season could get upset. 

 

Especially when he outplayed that contract figure the previous year.

 

I am all for a guy living up to his contract and the "he signed it" stuff. But the NFL is a different league than MLB or the NBA. The moment these guys don't justify their contract that both they and the team signed, the team walks away and pays them nothing. 

 

Even the dead cap hits are usually tied to the signing bonus or guarantees that have often already been paid out. So the player cuts cut with no new money going into his pocket.

 

With how short their careers are, these guys need to basically re-negotiate every time they play well enough to out-perform their contract because the moment they under-perform it they are gone and never see the $ they thought they were getting when signed.

 

End of the day you have Howard ticked off after the Jones signing and you have Chandler Jones ticked off after the JJ Watt signing.

 

That is exactly why Ballard is spot on with saying they are picking and choosing their investments and much prefer to pay guys from within who earned it.

 

 

The NFL is no different than the jobs most people have. The minute one doesn’t do the job well, that company will demote you or let you go most likely. Everyone gets paid to do their job whether it’s the NFL or IBM. Once the company feels your value is less than what they pay you then hit the door.

[CR91]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

You’d do it without knowing if he’s going to jail?   Without knowing if the NFL will suspend him?     This story with the accusers is NOT over.   Not even close. 

 

Did Big Ben go to the jail when he was accused of rape twice?

[TomDiggs]

2 hours ago, Blueblood23 said:

The NFL is no different than the jobs most people have. The minute one doesn’t do the job well, that company will demote you or let you go most likely. Everyone gets paid to do their job whether it’s the NFL or IBM. Once the company feels your value is less than what they pay you then hit the door.

Not disagreeing conceptually with the idea.

 

But it is very rare that the jobs most people have include signed contracts that tell you what you are going to make each year, etc.

 

Most of us have jobs that if we are over-performing we can simply give two weeks notice and walk away to someone else that is willing to pay us more and give us the going rate for our services.

 

So that's why i never really try to compare these sports jobs to regular jobs. Apples and oranges.

 

I will gladly compare sports jobs to each other. And the NFL is unlike MLB and the NBA in a way that is clearly slanted towards the teams and not the players.

 

That's why I rarely fault a player when they try to use whatever the little leverage is that they may have.

 

It is also why the moment the guaranteed $ of a contract is all paid out to the player, you run the risk of the player being unhappy and this stuff happening.

 

If the player is still performing at a high level, teams can often circumvent their angst by simply providing more guarantees in the construct of their existing deals. Not even upping their annual salary but just giving them more certainty for the future.

 

In Howard's case it sounds like they even tried to take that approach and got no response. So if that is true i can totally see why he's requesting to move on.

[Blueblood23]

32 minutes ago, TomDiggs said:

Not disagreeing conceptually with the idea.

 

But it is very rare that the jobs most people have include signed contracts that tell you what you are going to make each year, etc.

 

Most of us have jobs that if we are over-performing we can simply give two weeks notice and walk away to someone else that is willing to pay us more and give us the going rate for our services.

 

So that's why i never really try to compare these sports jobs to regular jobs. Apples and oranges.

 

I will gladly compare sports jobs to each other. And the NFL is unlike MLB and the NBA in a way that is clearly slanted towards the teams and not the players.

 

That's why I rarely fault a player when they try to use whatever the little leverage is that they may have.

 

It is also why the moment the guaranteed $ of a contract is all paid out to the player, you run the risk of the player being unhappy and this stuff happening.

 

If the player is still performing at a high level, teams can often circumvent their angst by simply providing more guarantees in the construct of their existing deals. Not even upping their annual salary but just giving them more certainty for the future.

 

In Howard's case it sounds like they even tried to take that approach and got no response. So if that is true i can totally see why he's requesting to move on.

People having jobs with signed contracts are not as rare as you believe. Public and private school teachers, administrators, media people, TV actors, news people, contractors, are a list of a few. There are many more.

[CR91]

5 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Agreed. The most I'd give up for him are fully conditional picks based on if he goes to jail or gets suspended by the league. If he goes to jail, every pick is returned. If he gets suspended by the league but doesn't go to jail, maybe get a certain amount of picks back based on how long he got suspended for. 

 

Any team that trades for Watson is going to have to protect themselves and have major insurance in case something goes wrong. I can't even imagine trading a major player in this deal and having Deshaun go to jail or something.

 

The justice system is tailor made for the rich especially for these kind of he said she said cases. It's sad, but that's the courts for you.

[DownHillRunner]

I have a question for everyone on this post. Does anyone think think Xavien Howard is worth more than what he is currently getting paid? Yes he signed a 4 year deal, but he's outplayed that deal. His base salary is $12 million, Byron Jones his teammate's base salary is $16 million. How is Byron Jones worth more than Howard? Tua is still on his rookie deal, and so are their other rookies and 2 year players. Miami can't rework this man's deal knowing they don't have to pay their other guys 3-4 years from now. Guys like Wilkins, Tua, Waddle, etc are still on rookie contracts. 

 

 

I'm not trying to argue here. If a player deserves to be paid accordingly then he should be paid. Also, its not like Howard is 31-32 years old. He's in the prime of his career. 

 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, CR91 said:

 

Did Big Ben go to the jail when he was accused of rape twice?

Seriously? 
 

That’s your response?

 

Do you expect Watson’s lawyer to stand up in court and make that argument?    
 

You didn’t even say that you’d wait for the legal process to play out.    Nope, you doubled down on a bad answer.  

Congrats!      

[CR91]

16 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Seriously? 
 

That’s your response?

 

Do you expect Watson’s lawyer to stand up in court and make that argument?    
 

You didn’t even say that you’d wait for the legal process to play out.    Nope, you doubled down on a bad answer.  

Congrats!      

 

My point is especially with he said she said cases, if you have money you can make it go away. That's the justice system for those making millions

[NewColtsFan]

8 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

My point is especially with he said she said cases, if you have money you can make it go away. That's the justice system for those making millions

You're still not getting it. 
 

In the most optimistic version of events, Watson writes 23 very large checks and the complaints go away. 
 

Do you think the NFL is going to do nothing about this?    This awful story is just going to go away?    Odds are the “woke” NFL will come down on Watson for embarrassing the league.   Remember, you don’t have to be found guilty if a crime to receive punishment from the NFL.   So a team trading for Watson now as you want would have no idea how long DW might be suspended?    A month?  Half a season?   A full season?    All that impacts his trade value. 
 

This is not going away quickly.   23 different women aren’t all going to find common ground and be satisfied with a check.  Ask Harvey Weinstein, currently doing time in prison. 

[CR91]

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

You're still not getting it. 
 

In the most optimistic version of events, Watson writes 23 very large checks and the complaints go away. 
 

Do you think the NFL is going to do nothing about this?    This awful story is just going to go away?    Odds are the “woke” NFL will come down on Watson for embarrassing the league.   Remember, you don’t have to be found guilty if a crime to receive punishment from the NFL.   So a team trading for Watson now as you want would have no idea how long DW might be suspended?    A month?  Half a season?   A full season?    All that impacts his trade value. 
 

This is not going away quickly.   23 different women aren’t all going to find common ground and be satisfied with a check.  Ask Harvey Weinstein, currently doing time in prison. 

 

He'll only get suspended if he's found guilty. hes not going to jail anytime soon if at all. Cases like these hardly ever get to trial. If a team really wants Watson's talent, they'll take the baggage.

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, CR91 said:

 

He'll only get suspended if he's found guilty. hes not going to jail anytime soon if at all. Cases like these hardly ever get to trial. If a team really wants Watson's talent, they'll take the baggage.

In years passed, I’d agree. Not sure that can be said as quickly or as a blanket statement these days. There’s been plenty of big names brought down by such allegations and in the modern metoo era, I would not be surprised to see if suspended and suspended for a long time IF any of these allegations are proven true. That’s if he doesn’t go to jail first

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

He'll only get suspended if he's found guilty. hes not going to jail anytime soon if at all. Cases like these hardly ever get to trial. If a team really wants Watson's talent, they'll take the baggage.

It’s possible you’re right.   But I think it’s highly, highly, HIGHLY unlikely.  
 

If you think the NFL is going to do NOTHING to Watson after 23 women come forward with disgusting charges would be one of the most shocking developments of the year.  The outrage would be enormous.  It would be counter to everything the NFL says it now stands for. 

[CR91]

38 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

It’s possible you’re right.   But I think it’s highly, highly, HIGHLY unlikely.  
 

If you think the NFL is going to do NOTHING to Watson after 23 women come forward with disgusting charges would be one of the most shocking developments of the year.  The outrage would be enormous.  It would be counter to everything the NFL says it now stands for. 

 

Unless he's proven guilty, what can the NFL do? You can't punish someone who could be found "legally" (I use that term loosely) innocent.

[CR91]

2 hours ago, csmopar said:

In years passed, I’d agree. Not sure that can be said as quickly or as a blanket statement these days. There’s been plenty of big names brought down by such allegations and in the modern metoo era, I would not be surprised to see if suspended and suspended for a long time IF any of these allegations are proven true. That’s if he doesn’t go to jail first

 

Court proceedings take years before a trial starts. Watson could be done with this season and charges still won't hit the docket.

[NewColtsFan]

15 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Unless he's proven guilty, what can the NFL do? You can't punish someone who could be found "legally" (I use that term loosely) innocent.

False.   The NFL made it very clear a few years ago.   You don’t have to be found guilty if a crime to get suspended.   If you do something that embarrassed the league, the shield, they can and will suspend you.   That’s niw part of the CBA. 

[Myles]

19 hours ago, DownHillRunner said:

 

 

Would you be crying if you were a 1st team All Pro CB who is grossly underpaid? It's not about being pampered, its about earning your money in this league. That is what he has done. 

He signed a 5 year $75 million dollar contract.   $7 signing bonus with $40 million guaranteed.   He should be happy.  

[CR91]

40 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

False.   The NFL made it very clear a few years ago.   You don’t have to be found guilty if a crime to get suspended.   If you do something that embarrassed the league, the shield, they can and will suspend you.   That’s niw part of the CBA. 

 

So guilty before being guilty. If that's the case, why hasnt Watson been suspended already?

[ColtJax]

He has no leverage, not a drop. He has 4 years left on his contract and he's 28. If the Dolphins get blown away they might, but other than that they can just tell him to sit. You can't have guys with that many years left demanding a trade or a new contract.

[bestQBever]

6 hours ago, DownHillRunner said:

I have a question for everyone on this post. Does anyone think think Xavien Howard is worth more than what he is currently getting paid? Yes he signed a 4 year deal, but he's outplayed that deal. His base salary is $12 million, Byron Jones his teammate's base salary is $16 million. How is Byron Jones worth more than Howard? Tua is still on his rookie deal, and so are their other rookies and 2 year players. Miami can't rework this man's deal knowing they don't have to pay their other guys 3-4 years from now. Guys like Wilkins, Tua, Waddle, etc are still on rookie contracts. 

 

 

I'm not trying to argue here. If a player deserves to be paid accordingly then he should be paid. Also, its not like Howard is 31-32 years old. He's in the prime of his career. 

 

Yeah I'd be mad if my teammate who plays the same position as me is getting paid more even though he is clearly inferior.

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, CR91 said:

 

Court proceedings take years before a trial starts. Watson could be done with this season and charges still won't hit the docket.

Very possibly. It will be interesting to see what comes of all this

[csmopar]

13 minutes ago, bestQBever said:

Yeah I'd be mad if my teammate who plays the same position as me is getting paid more even though he is clearly inferior.

It’s not that simple. Howard signed his contract 2 years ago. His teammate just signed on this year.  Every offseason, new standards are set in the market. This is where these 5-7 contracts can suck for a player even though it’s a huge contract at the time, in a matter of years, it’s not near as big compared to similar players. 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, CR91 said:

 

So guilty before being guilty. If that's the case, why hasnt Watson been suspended already?

The league says they’re letting the legal system play out first.   Then, they will weigh in. 

[CR91]

16 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

The league says they’re letting the legal system play out first.   Then, they will weigh in. 

 

So the NFL is waiting for what exactly? The 24th woman to come forward? Watson is one of their marquee money-makers. Their not suspending him unless he's guilty. 

[NewColtsFan]

13 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

So the NFL is waiting for what exactly? The 24th woman to come forward? Watson is one of their marquee money-makers. Their not suspending him unless he's guilty. 

What are you asking?    I answered that with my first sentence.    They’re first letting the legal system play out, then they’ll deal with Watson.   
 

You’re horribly cynical.  It’s not a good look.   Just today,  Peter King said Texas shouldn’t try to trade him now, because his value is too low.   And no team should try to trade for him because no one knows how this will play out in the legal system or with the NFL.  Not smart to give up assets when you don’t know the fate of the player. 
 

Your offer from Miami is the right idea, but at the exact wrong time.    It’s likely not happening. 

[CR91]

31 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

What are you asking?    I answered that with my first sentence.    They’re first letting the legal system play out, then they’ll deal with Watson.   
 

You’re horribly cynical.  It’s not a good look.   Just today,  Peter King said Texas shouldn’t try to trade him now, because his value is too low.   And no team should try to trade for him because no one knows how this will play out in the legal system or with the NFL.  Not smart to give up assets when you don’t know the fate of the player. 
 

Your offer from Miami is the right idea, but at the exact wrong time.    It’s likely not happening. 

 

My point is don't be quick to assume he will suspended and have that be the reason to de-value him. 

[NewColtsFan]

2 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

My point is don't be quick to assume he will suspended and have that be the reason to de-value him. 

I understand.   You’ve made this point overwhelmingly clear.   And your point is very likely to be spectacularly wrong.   And you’re not the least bit aware of it.   
 

There's nothing out there being reported by people who follow this that supports your view.   In fact, it’s quite the opposite.   I just gave you the view of Peter King, one of the top reporters covering the NFL for decades.  He says what I’m saying.   He says the exact opposite of what you’re saying and you act like I didn’t tell you a thing.  You ignored it.  And he’s one of many.   And you simply don’t care.    Okie-dokie. 
 

So that’s it for us….

 

Game!   Set!   And Match!!      

[jvan1973]

17 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

So guilty before being guilty. If that's the case, why hasnt Watson been suspended already?

The NFL is still investigating.    

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-investigation-into-deshaun-watson-ongoing-and-active-qb-eligible-to-particip

[jvan1973]

17 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

So guilty before being guilty. If that's the case, why hasnt Watson been suspended already?

Big Ben was suspended 4 games and was never charged with a crime