Just how bad and injured was Wentz's supporting cast last year?

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I would absolutely love to be wrong about Reich's conservative nature. Until I see it though, it is what it is. I really don't expect anything to really open up early this season (unless we're down, which is not far fetched vs a few early opponents). I think Reich will install some training wheels on Wentz early. Rivers had a good deep throw success rate, but low deep throw attempt rate. You'd think a high success rate would translate into more attempts, but it never did. It'll be interesting that's for sure.

 

On the mechanics, I'm just not worried about it. If he's winning, it won't get mentioned even if he's foot-funky. I'm sure they're working on it, and I have to believe he's focused. 

 

So no prediction (QBR)?

 

I forgot about the QBR question. I don't pay a lot of attention to QBR, but I think Wentz will be top 10-12, assuming the OL does their job. Rivers was 19, and he couldn't escape pressure, and wouldn't throw downfield.

 

More on that last point, since you mentioned it. I watched a lot of All 22 last year, and my thinking is that Rivers passed up chances to go deep. He also wasn't good on play action. After 2018, he wasn't able to do it.

[EastStreet]

10 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I forgot about the QBR question. I don't pay a lot of attention to QBR, but I think Wentz will be top 10-12, assuming the OL does their job. Rivers was 19, and he couldn't escape pressure, and wouldn't throw downfield.

 

More on that last point, since you mentioned it. I watched a lot of All 22 last year, and my thinking is that Rivers passed up chances to go deep. He also wasn't good on play action. After 2018, he wasn't able to do it.

To me, it seemed that just about all of his first and second reads were short/shallow. I just didn't see a lot of deep play calls (early read deep). I got a little happy with some of the success vs MN, but we seemed to go back to conservative ball after that.

 

On QBR, I said earlier 8-12 which triggered a few folks. The closer we get, my gut is getting closer to the 7-10 range.

[Superman]

41 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

To me, it seemed that just about all of his first and second reads were short/shallow. I just didn't see a lot of deep play calls (early read deep). I got a little happy with some of the success vs MN, but we seemed to go back to conservative ball after that.

 

On QBR, I said earlier 8-12 which triggered a few folks. The closer we get, my gut is getting closer to the 7-10 range.

 

Yeah, my 10-12 is worst case scenario, assuming the offense doesn't fall apart. With his talent, our skill guys and running game, his production and efficiency should have a solid baseline. If everything clicks, he could be top five, but that might be a little over the top.

 

Rivers quickly got rid of the ball, but there were openings developing that he didn't wait on. I'm mostly fine with that, but he didn't threaten the back end of the defense often enough, and I mostly put that on him, not the play calling. I know that's something we disagree on, but that's why I say I want to see how Reich adjusts to Wentz.

[Colt.45]

52 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

To me, it seemed that just about all of his first and second reads were short/shallow. I just didn't see a lot of deep play calls (early read deep). I got a little happy with some of the success vs MN, but we seemed to go back to conservative ball after that.

 

On QBR, I said earlier 8-12 which triggered a few folks. The closer we get, my gut is getting closer to the 7-10 range.

 

Reich and his staff are well known for crafting plays that the QB is most comfortable with i.e. they work with the QB IIRC. If the first and second reads were often short, do you think that's more an indication of what the player likes? Or you feel the story was the same in 18 with #12?

[EastStreet]

20 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Yeah, my 10-12 is worst case scenario, assuming the offense doesn't fall apart. With his talent, our skill guys and running game, his production and efficiency should have a solid baseline. If everything clicks, he could be top five, but that might be a little over the top.

Well we know he has the ability to be #1 in QBR (2017), and can also be 28th (2020)... lol...

 

So not sure top 5 is really over the top. Unlikely a bit maybe, but not over the top. I would not be shocked anywhere between 1 and 16. I would be very surprised if he's 20 or worse.

20 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Rivers quickly got rid of the ball, but there were openings developing that he didn't wait on. I'm mostly fine with that, but he didn't threaten the back end of the defense often enough, and I mostly put that on him, not the play calling. I know that's something we disagree on, but that's why I say I want to see how Reich adjusts to Wentz.

I think there were some games he clearly had deep/intermediate calls, and had zero problem waiting for those to develop. There were several sail routes vs MN that he waited and executed flawlessly. You could tell it was a priority play. So I'm just not sure that it wasn't play calling, instead of Rivers not waiting.

[EastStreet]

20 hours ago, Colt.45 said:

 

Reich and his staff are well known for crafting plays that the QB is most comfortable with i.e. they work with the QB IIRC. If the first and second reads were often short, do you think that's more an indication of what the player likes? Or you feel the story was the same in 18 with #12?

 

As far as last year is concerned, I think it was more about what Reich wanted, and IMO, Reich wanted to play possession ball (running + short high % passes). I think Rivers was comfortable with much more than game plan called for. Ballard and Reich both made comments, something like "Philip has to realize he doesn't have to do XX, for this team to win". 

 

We'll never know what Reich was pushing Rivers to do, or not to do, but I think we saw Rivers at times look great long (planned and unplanned hero ball), but mostly it just looked and felt (to me anyway) that we were grinding and dinking.