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The Best at Every Position....


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36 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

This is an ESPN story,  but it is NOT,  an opinion story.    The network has polled 50 execs,  coaches,  scouts and players and asked them to vote for their top 10 at every position.   If there was a tie,  they did another vote to break it.     This is the 2nd year ESPN has done this,  started last year.     And the Colts have done well so far.  

 

I'll break down what I can.    There's only so much I can do as it is a Premium story.    It's a top-10 list per position, plus the best of the rest who received votes.

 

Special Note:   These rankings reflect this year and this year only.    It is not, who would you want for the next 5 or 10 years.    It's who do you want right now,  2021.

 

 

1.   Edge Rushers

Best:   Myles Garrett

Colts:  No one.

 

2.  Interior DL

Best:  Aaron Donald

Colts:   DeForest Buckner is 3rd   

His highest rank received was 2nd and his lowest rank was 6th.   Last year he was 4th

 

3. Off-Ball Linebackers

Best: Devin White

Colts: Darius Leonard is 4th behind Fred Warner and Bobby Wagner

His highest rank received was 1st and his lowest rank was 9th   Last year he was also 4th

 

4.  Cornerbacks

Best:   Jalen Ramsey

Colts:    No one

 

5.  Safeties

Best: Minkah Fitzpatrick

Colts:  No one

 

6.  Offensive Tackles

Best:  Trent Williams

Colts:    Braden Smith in Honorable Mention.    Since I believe they're listed in order of total votes received, it looks like Smith was 19th

 

7.   Interior OL

Best:   Quenton Nelson     1st this year,  1st last year.   His lowest ranking was 2nd.

Colts:    Also on the list is Ryan Kelly who was 1st in the also receiving votes,  so he's 11th overall.

Note:     Wyatt Teller, who one Colts fan says that some think this guy is the best,  is 13th overall.

 

8.  Quarterbacks

Best:    Patrick Mahomes

Colts:   Carson Wentz did indeed receive votes.   And one player says he thinks Wentz is going to do great here because of the Culture and Vibe.   That player pointed to 

our line and our running game as perfect for Wentz

 

9.  Running Backs    (Tomorrow,  7/13)

 

 

10.  Wide Receivers   (Wednesday,  7/14)

 

 

11.  Tight End             (Thursday,   7/15)

 

 

If you have questions that I can't answer here, feel free to send me a PM.

 

can you post the link?

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3 minutes ago, PuntersArePeopleToo said:

Ya, I am guessing premium is ESPN+? 

 

I just can't ever find articles when I go look for them

 

Your wish is my command.

 

Here's the link,  for whatever it's worth....    

 

Good luck....

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/31800661/ranking-nfl-top-10-quarterbacks-2021-execs-coaches-players-make-their-picks

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46 minutes ago, Coslosky24 said:

Braden Smith is severely underrated across the board outside Indianapolis.

Underrated?

 

Smith is 19th among 64 total starting tackles, left and right.   That’s the top third of all tackles. Doesn’t seem too bad…

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12 minutes ago, Coslosky24 said:

I honestly never see or hear anyone bring him up outside of Colts fans.

19th for Smith is about right, he is good but not great. None of our O.Lineman (except Nelson) will get much publicity because Nelson is so great, he gets 99% of it.

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2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

19th for Smith is about right, he is good but not great. None of our O.Lineman (except Nelson) will get much publicity because Nelson is so great, he gets 99% of it.

Kelly is pretty respected by people who follow football across the board.  No he doesn’t get the attention that Nelson gets but no one is going to but he gets some in his own right.  

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2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

19th for Smith is about right, he is good but not great. None of our O.Lineman (except Nelson) will get much publicity because Nelson is so great, he gets 99% of it.

Fisher is darn good maybe even to level of great. I hope we get him playing sooner than later. 

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4 hours ago, superrep1967 said:

Fisher is darn good maybe even to level of great. I hope we get him playing sooner than later. 

Fish was great but injured his achilles, he will still most likely be good and Kelly is good too. My point is that Nelson is so great he will get most of the pub regarding our O.Line. Most of the media rarely talk about O.Lineman from any team unless they are top 3 at their position as it is. We are a small market team which even adds to that. I don't think I have ever heard ESPN or the NFL Network even talk about Smith or Kelly on any pre-game shows. They have Nelson a bunch.  Most talk about QB's, WR's, Pass Rushers, etc..

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Its nice to see that we fans are as smart as the execs, because most of us have said that we lack talent at the skill/outside positions but are strong up the middle.  That formula creates limitations on how you can play/coach offense and defense.  Reich/Flus can only do so much to have a chance of winning.

 

Lets see how the RBs and WRs do.  JT will be noticed, quite nicely maybe, but I doubt that Pittman scratches the surface with all of the WR talent in the NFL.  Our TEs wont show up.  

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9 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

19th for Smith is about right, he is good but not great. None of our O.Lineman (except Nelson) will get much publicity because Nelson is so great, he gets 99% of it.

I disagree.   Last season he gave up 0 sack and only 1 QB hit.  Only 3 penalties as well. 

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42 minutes ago, Myles said:

I disagree.   Last season he gave up 0 sack and only 1 QB hit.  Only 3 penalties as well. 

Eye popping stats but he has never made a pro-bowl in his 3 yr career. If he was great he would've been a pro-bowl selection at least once. I am not even talking all-pro, I am just talking pro-bowl selection. I like Smith but saying he's great is a stretch. I think he is good which is still a huge compliment.

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9 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Eye popping stats but he has never made a pro-bowl in his 3 yr career. If he was great he would've been a pro-bowl selection at least once. I am not even talking all-pro, I am just talking pro-bowl selection. I like Smith but saying he's great is a stretch. I think he is good which is still a huge compliment.

 

Probowl is kinda a joke in itself anyway. A lot of great players aren't voted in every year.

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3 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

 

Probowl is kinda a joke in itself anyway. A lot of great players aren't voted in every year.

The pro-bowl is a joke to watch I agree but getting selected to it isn't. I haven't watched a pro-bowl in years but it is still a great accolade to have on your resume. Nelson is the definition of great = 3 pro-bowl selections and 3 all-pro 1st teams.

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19 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The pro-bowl is a joke to watch I agree but getting selected to it isn't. I haven't watched a pro-bowl in years but it is still a great accolade to have on your resume. Nelson is the definition of great = 3 pro-bowl selections and 3 all-pro 1st teams.

 

Costanzo didn't get a probowl either. And he was great.

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1 hour ago, Myles said:

I disagree.   Last season he gave up 0 sack and only 1 QB hit.  Only 3 penalties as well. 

 

 He had a 18 year vet QB that got rid of the ball any time pressure came.
 Starting about his 6th season, Mannings o-line had amazing stats like Smith has. Smith got beat bad quite a bit and Rivers was always ready for it.
 He is top notch as a run blocker and just decent as a pass blocker.
 Glad to have him for sure but there is no reason to ignore the elephant in the room. And i do think he would make as good or better as a guard because of his slight lack of quickness. He is more of a bull than a cat.

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13 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

Costanzo didn't get a probowl either. And he was great.

I don't think Costanzo was great, he was good. There is a difference. Great is a whole another level. That is JMO though and I don't put a lot of players on the great level. Costanzo was a very solid LT, I still wish we had him but he isn't a Hall of Famer and was never considered the best LT in the league, I guess I can buy he was very good. Nelson is considered the best O.Lineman period by a lot of media people.   

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12 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

Costanzo didn't get a probowl either. And he was great.

 

 CAstonzo had one season he graded just into the top ten.
 And he benefitted a great deal having Nelson help protect his inside.
  He was a good Colt.

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16 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I don't think Costanzo was great, he was good. There is a difference. Great is a whole another level. That is JMO though and I don't put a lot of players on the great level. Costanzo was a very solid LT, I still wish we had him but he isn't a Hall of Famer and was never considered the best LT in the league, I guess I can buy he was very good. Nelson is considered the best O.Lineman period by a lot of media people.   

 

Is great the same as elite? Or is great lesser than? 

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If you read the OP carefully, this is a survey of EXECS and NFL football people....people who watch film in game-prep and evaluations of players.  This isn't a fan/media popular vote contest.

 

I would assume that the lack of "respect" for Kelly and Smith in this survey speaks more accurately to their overall performance in the NFL relative to the opinion of homers, who might think both players are among the best in the league.

 

To go deep into the playoffs, a team needs to have more top 10 players on the edges.  JMO.  Its not sustainable over the long term, but that's what's needed for that SB window.

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1 hour ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

Is great the same as elite? Or is great lesser than? 

It is a tough thing to dissect, that is why doing all-time lists are so difficult but I do them as a hobby as funny as it sounds lmao . Eventhough it is all opinionated. Not sure how to explain it fully but I will try, I will use QB's as an example:

 

Elite to me is Tom Brady, Joe Montana, Peyton Manning, Johnny Unitas, John Elway, Aaron Rodgers for example = GOAT convo.

 

Great is Hall of Fame material but hardly nobody thinks they are in the GOAT convo such as Drew Brees, Brett Favre, Dan Marino, Big Ben. I would honestly even put Philip Rivers in the great category, he was 134-106 in his career, he threw for over 63,000 yards/threw for 421 TD's, and his longevity/durability ranks among the best of any QB that has ever played. He played with injuries and never missed a start for 15 years from 2006--2020.

 

ESPN loves to put Mahomes in the GOAT convo already lmao but it is too early to do that, he is in the great category until he has 7 or 8 seasons in a row that are Elite. I am talking career wise on these players. Nelson is in the great category as well, he has only been in the league 3 years but he has made 3 1st team all-pro teams. Mahomes and Nelson both look like they could be future Hall of Famers and even could end up Elite for their career's.

 

Costanzo never made 1 all-pro team, for his career he was solid good. One of best LT's we have ever had. Like I said that is my opinion and it is all opinionated so it doesn't mean I am right but I feel solid about my takes.

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2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The pro-bowl is a joke to watch I agree but getting selected to it isn't. I

It is though.   It is a popularity contest.   Many times the most popular is also one of the best, but not all the time.   It's like that in every sports all-star game.   I remember players in the NBA all star game that didn't even play in the season yet.  

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1 minute ago, Myles said:

It is though.   It is a popularity contest.   Many times the most popular is also one of the best, but not all the time.   It's like that in every sports all-star game.   I remember players in the NBA all star game that didn't even play in the season yet.  

What about getting selected to be an all-pro? That definitely isn't a joke.

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54 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

If anyone is severely underrated, it's Kenny Moore. 

 

I know people immediately think of outside CB's on these types of things, but he is the best slot CB in the league. 

Moore is great the problem is the other corners on the outside. It would of been better to have a separate position of outside corner 

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4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

What about getting selected to be an all-pro? That definitely isn't a joke.

No, but the fans don't count as 1/3 of that selection process.  

 

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16 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

This is an ESPN story,  but it is NOT,  an opinion story.    The network has polled 50 execs,  coaches,  scouts and players and asked them to vote for their top 10 at every position.   If there was a tie,  they did another vote to break it.     This is the 2nd year ESPN has done this,  started last year.     And the Colts have done well so far.  

 

I'll break down what I can.    There's only so much I can do as it is a Premium story.    It's a top-10 list per position, plus the best of the rest who received votes.

 

Special Note:   These rankings reflect this year and this year only.    It is not, who would you want for the next 5 or 10 years.    It's who do you want right now,  2021.

 

 

1.   Edge Rushers

Best:   Myles Garrett

Colts:  No one.

Reasonable. Big area of concern for the Colts. 

16 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

2.  Interior DL

Best:  Aaron Donald

Colts:   DeForest Buckner is 3rd   

His highest rank received was 2nd and his lowest rank was 6th.   Last year he was 4th

Reasonable.

 

16 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

3. Off-Ball Linebackers

Best: Devin White

Colts: Darius Leonard is 4th behind Fred Warner and Bobby Wagner

His highest rank received was 1st and his lowest rank was 9th   Last year he was also 4th

Reasonable.

 

16 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

4.  Cornerbacks

Best:   Jalen Ramsey

Colts:    No one

Reasonable. Big area of concern for the Colts. 

16 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

5.  Safeties

Best: Minkah Fitzpatrick

Colts:  No one

Reasonable.

16 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

6.  Offensive Tackles

Best:  Trent Williams

Colts:    Braden Smith in Honorable Mention.    Since I believe they're listed in order of total votes received, it looks like Smith was 19th

Reasonable. I think Smith is a bit underrated, but not horribly so. 

16 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

7.   Interior OL

Best:   Quenton Nelson     1st this year,  1st last year.   His lowest ranking was 2nd.

Colts:    Also on the list is Ryan Kelly who was 1st in the also receiving votes,  so he's 11th overall.

Note:     Wyatt Teller, who one Colts fan says that some think this guy is the best,  is 13th overall.

Reasonable. But Wyatt Teller was much better than no. 13 last year. Still maybe it's good to wait for at least 2 years of play on that level before we put him among the top of the top at the position. 

16 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

8.  Quarterbacks

Best:    Patrick Mahomes

Colts:   Carson Wentz did indeed receive votes.   And one player says he thinks Wentz is going to do great here because of the Culture and Vibe.   That player pointed to our line and our running game as perfect for Wentz

Reasonable. Also... Carson Wentz for MVP. You heard it here first. :D 

 

16 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

9.  Running Backs    (Tomorrow,  7/13)

Personal prediction - best RB - Derrick Henry. Jonathan Taylor - around no. 10-12

 

16 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

10.  Wide Receivers   (Wednesday,  7/14)

Top WR - many good candidates... Devante Adams? Diggs? No colts receiver on the list. 

16 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

11.  Tight End             (Thursday,   7/15)

Top TE - Kittle, no Colts TE on the list

16 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

If you have questions that I can't answer here, feel free to send me a PM.

 

Thanks for compiling the lists. 

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16 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Note:     Wyatt Teller, who one Colts fan says that some think this guy is the best,  is 13th overall.

 

 

PFF did grade Teller the highest at G for last season. But that was just a 2020 grade. In their rankings, I haven't seen Teller higher than Nelson for next season.

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58 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

PFF did grade Teller the highest at G for last season. But that was just a 2020 grade. In their rankings, I haven't seen Teller higher than Nelson for next season.

I know.   I understand. 
 

I just wanted that poster to know as well.   But I haven’t seen much of him for a while. 

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The voting on running backs is in.   Taylor finished tied for 10th with Josh Jacobs. 

 

And on a re-vote to break the tie, Taylor lost,  so he finished 11th.   The quote used for him came from an AFC scout.   Said look for Taylor to be about 5th next season.   

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3 hours ago, DougDew said:

Its nice to see that we fans are as smart as the execs, because most of us have said that we lack talent at the skill/outside positions but are strong up the middle.  That formula creates limitations on how you can play/coach offense and defense.  Reich/Flus can only do so much to have a chance of winning.

 

Lets see how the RBs and WRs do.  JT will be noticed, quite nicely maybe, but I doubt that Pittman scratches the surface with all of the WR talent in the NFL.  Our TEs wont show up.  

 

Confirms what we already sort of knew. And you are correct about the limitations. We all saw the crazy QB numbers and record team scoring (700 points MORE than the previous high). I could also post recent analytics that show how important passing offense and QB play is to getting to the SB, but I don't want to be a broken record.

 

Offense drives the game, and will continue to do so. The Colts are set up at OL and RB, which is good, but won't really matter without the passing game.

 

Also, if the NFL continues to call holding far less to help boost the passing offense, you would think that would make an elite, disciplined OL less of an advantage. But that remains to be seen.

 

The Colts are a good team though...I just have real concerns about how they are supposedly going to take this huge leap on offense. But it's going to be a fun season either way.

 

 

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4 hours ago, stitches said:

Reasonable. Big area of concern for the Colts. 

Reasonable.

 

Reasonable.

 

Reasonable. Big area of concern for the Colts. 

Reasonable.

Reasonable. I think Smith is a bit underrated, but not horribly so. 

Reasonable. But Wyatt Teller was much better than no. 13 last year. Still maybe it's good to wait for at least 2 years of play on that level before we put him among the top of the top at the position. 

Reasonable. Also... Carson Wentz for MVP. You heard it here first. :D 

 

Personal prediction - best RB - Derrick Henry. Jonathan Taylor - around no. 10-12

 

Top WR - many good candidates... Devante Adams? Diggs? No colts receiver on the list. 

Top TE - Kittle, no Colts TE on the list

Thanks for compiling the lists. 

 

Nailed the Taylor ranking. I expect he will move up next year as some age out or get hurt. But the competition is fierce at RB. And we haven't even seen what this rookie class looks like...though it doesn't appear to be nearly as strong as last year.

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7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

The voting on running backs is in.   Taylor finished tied for 10th with Josh Jacobs. 

 

And on a re-vote to break the tie, Taylor lost,  so he finished 11th.   The quote used for him came from an AFC scout.   Said look for Taylor to be about 5th next season.   

I don't know my NFL RBs that well, but I'd think Jacobs should be higher than 10.  Other than Henry, what other RB is clearly better? 

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26 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I don't know my NFL RBs that well, but I'd think Jacobs should be higher than 10.  Other than Henry, what other RB is clearly better? 


Doug….

 

Please see your inbox.

 

I think the others are ranked higher because the have a longer track record, plus JT was only great the last 6-7 games.    Hopefully he picks up where he left off last year.  

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9 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

The voting on running backs is in.   Taylor finished tied for 10th with Josh Jacobs. 

 

And on a re-vote to break the tie, Taylor lost,  so he finished 11th.   The quote used for him came from an AFC scout.   Said look for Taylor to be about 5th next season.   

That is an accurate rating for him IMO. I had him 10th around a month ago when I was discussing where he should be ranked at with @EastStreet. Thanks for the update.

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