Colts one of lowest vaccinated rates in the NFL

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, Smonroe said:

 

I'm not sure what you mean.  The NFLPA agreed with the protocols.  No one is being forced to be vaccinated.  Each player can make his own decision.

 

But pro sports are not Little League.  The best players will play, and coaches have to make decisions on who to keep on the team based on their ability and availability.

 

As @DougDew pointed out, the policy will probably evolve.  I think it's a fair policy for everyone.  

I mean are they  going to keep all these protocols forever. Next ten years. That isn’t realistic. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

I just want to know when the NFL is going to stop with the protocols. This will never completely go away and you can’t force players.

I was under the assumption that NFL players still get tested a lot even if vaccinated. After reading @Smonroepost I guess they don't. The NBA still does a lot of testing regardless. Having said that NFL players could still get randomly tested is what I have been looking up even if vaccinated. So that still means if someone who is vaccinated tests positive for Covid-19 than they will be out for a game more than likely.

[Nadine]

1 hour ago, Coltsfan98 said:

Why keep testing for the % anyway? Everyone who wants the vaccine has had the opportunity to get it. If someone develops symptoms then test them and isolate them but not sure why we need to continue worrying about it. People die from the flu too but we aren't testing people for that or requiring vaccinations either. It's a personal choice whether to vaccinate or not. 

My guess is they're trying to protect the season. Lots of people are asymptomatic but pass the virus on to other people.  And we have more than one unvaccinated player

 

There are a lot of reasons why covid is more serious than flu.  I'll leave you to research that

 

Nobody is saying vaccination isn't a personal choice.  the NFL isn't saying that, nobody in this country is saying that

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, csmopar said:

At least not until 2022. Probably 2023. I would say not until the infection rate drops to that of the common flu.

It’s already dropped like a rock. The question becomes have enough been vaccinated and had it to keep it that way once fall gets here. I believe the US is under 10k cases now. Most states are barely having 200 cases a day. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I was under the assumption that NFL players still get tested a lot even if vaccinated. After reading @Smonroepost I guess they don't. The NBA still does a lot of testing regardless. Having said that NFL players could still get randomly tested is what I have been looking up even if vaccinated. So that still means if someone who is vaccinated tests positive for Covid-19 than they will be out for a game more than likely.

I think vaccinated players will still get tested once a week. But it looks like it’s everyday if they aren’t. According to that Vikings reporting Stills said everyday testing if your not. Can’t leave for the bye week. Can’t eR with other players. Will be isolated on the road.

[chad72]

7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I was under the assumption that NFL players still get tested a lot even if vaccinated. After reading @Smonroepost I guess they don't. The NBA still does a lot of testing regardless. Having said that NFL players could still get randomly tested is what I have been looking up even if vaccinated. So that still means if someone who is vaccinated tests positive for Covid-19 than they will be out for a game more than likely.

 

When we get through the 2021 season and everyone endures the test of time over the winter and flu season, vaccinated and unvaccinated, against all the possible variants, we will have more data to see how things unfold. Like @DougDew said, some want to take the chance and play the waiting game. 

[Nadine]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I have never had a flu shot either and when I tell people that, you should hear some of the responses I get  . You have to get that, etc. etc.. I haven't had a bad cold in 20 years.

I've never had tetnus but, I got a vaccine for it yesterday just as a preventive measure.

Because, I don't want tetnus

 

I never get flu either but, I get the flu shot.  It looks as though this new mRNA technology will lead to better flu shots. I hope so.

 

I cannot remember the last time I had a bad cold. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Nadine said:

I've never had tetnus but, I got a vaccine for it yesterday just as a preventive measure.

Because, I don't want tetnus

 

I never get flu either but, I get the flu shot.  It looks as though this new mRNA technology will lead to better flu shots. I hope so.

 

I cannot remember the last time I had a bad cold. 

I actually have had my Tetnus shot lol. I had it a few years ago when I went in to see the doc. I had stepped on a nail that went through my shoe but my foot looked fine but it hurt like heck. 

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, Smonroe said:

 

I'm not arguing for either side of the vaccination choice.  I'm stating a fact as presented by the NFL and asking a legitimate question with what I think is an obvious answer.  

 

You changed the question - It's if two players are equally evaluated (and if you ever watched Hard Knocks, this happens with every team making final cuts) - one is vaccinated, one is not.  Which one makes the team?

 

Remember the cliche about one of the greatest abilities - availability.  

Easy choice the one who is vaccinated.  The Bills GM let the cat out of the bag.  He pretty much said they want players who are vaccinated.  I think all teams will feel the same way.  If you are a rookie or an UDFA your chances of making the team increase if you are vaccinated.  That's just the simple truth.  If you are a veteran who thinks your spot is in jeopardy you would be smart to get vaccinated.  Availability is the key.  These GM's work hard to put good rosters together and try for a championship and they will not hurt their chances by having players on their teams who are not vaccinated if they can help it.  It helps increase their chances of winning.  Decisions at cut down time could come down to this.  For example a rookie RB who is vaccinated had a good camp and is competing for a backup roster spot against a veteran backup who is not.  Advantage rookie.  What if a player goes on waivers who is vaccinated and is good enough to replace one of our players who  is not.  Advantage to the waived player.  That's going to be a fact of life in the new NFL during covid.  A team and GM's success in the NFL is measured on winning.  Without the shot you are a risk plain and simple.  The players should realize that and hopefully will be making their decision knowing the potential consequences.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I have a gut feeling Wentz did get vaccinated and that’s why he missed the first two days of OTA. 
 

I truly do wonder how it could divide the locker room in a bad way.

[Nadine]

2 hours ago, iuswingman said:

 

I think when anything gets this politicized, it makes it hard to get past that.  Then there were the anti-vaxers that existed before it became politicized and are still anti-vax.

 

Some people tell me because it isn't fda approved.  It will be interesting to see if they go get it once it is fda approved or if that was just a convenient excuse.

Politics and misinformation play a huge role in this

The anti-vax movement has responsibility as well.

 

The only reason against a vaccine that's made sense to me (aside from health and religious reason) was one guy told me he didn't get the J & J vaccine because he didn't trust the company due to them selling baby powder that was a known carcinogen.  He got the Pfizer vaccine instead.  We are very fortunate to have choices.  Most other countries are no where near in as good of shape as we are (and we came from a very very bad place).

 

Everybody else I've talked to insists there are conspiracies etc.  It all boils down to lack of trust.......and a fair amount of intolerance and hate and in my opinion, an addiction to rage.

 

So many people live in a state of rage these days

 

That said, people are free to believe whatever they want. They can choose to not get the vaccine because they are afraid of it. That includes NFL players

 

It doesn't have anything to do with their character or intelligence. This anti vax thing crosses all intelligence and character lines.  It also crosses some political lines

 

Makes no sense to me but, until we agree on a common set of facts, that's how it will stay.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Easy choice the one who is vaccinated.  The Bills GM let the cat out of the bag.  He pretty much said they want players who are vaccinated.  I think all teams will feel the same way.  If you are a rookie or an UDFA your chances of making the team increase if you are vaccinated.  That's just the simple truth.  If you are a veteran who thinks your spot is in jeopardy you would be smart to get vaccinated.  Availability is the key.  These GM's work hard to put good rosters together and try for a championship and they will not hurt their chances by having players on their teams who are not vaccinated if they can help it.  It helps increase their chances of winning.  Decisions at cut down time could come down to this.  For example a rookie RB who is vaccinated had a good camp and is competing for a backup roster spot against a veteran backup who is not.  Advantage rookie.  What if a player goes on waivers who is vaccinated and is good enough to replace one of our players who  is not.  Advantage to the waived player.  That's going to be a fact of life in the new NFL during covid.  A team and GM's success in the NFL is measured on winning.  Without the shot you are a risk plain and simple.  The players should realize that and hopefully will be making their decision knowing the potential consequences.  

Oh of course and I don't disagree with any of this. Money talks is the key though. Player A may make something like 600,000 in 1 year as a borderline starter or clear backup that barely makes the roster if he gets the shot. Player B that doesn't get the vaccine will lose out on that once in a lifetime payout without getting the vaccine and may never make it in the NFL period. 600,000 dollars is a lot of money for anyone that may only play in the league 1 or 2 years.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[Nadine]

24 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I actually have had my Tetnus shot lol. I had it a few years ago when I went in to see the doc. I had stepped on a nail that went through my shoe but my foot looked fine but it hurt like heck. 

OUCH!

no damage to the tendons in your feet?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[DougDew]

35 minutes ago, Nadine said:

Politics and misinformation play a huge role in this

The anti-vax movement has responsibility as well.

 

The only reason against a vaccine that's made sense to me (aside from health and religious reason) was one guy told me he didn't get the J & J vaccine because he didn't trust the company due to them selling baby powder that was a known carcinogen.  He got the Pfizer vaccine instead.  We are very fortunate to have choices.  Most other countries are no where near in as good of shape as we are (and we came from a very very bad place).

 

Everybody else I've talked to insists there are conspiracies etc.  It all boils down to lack of trust.......and a fair amount of intolerance and hate and in my opinion, an addiction to rage.

 

So many people live in a state of rage these days

 

That said, people are free to believe whatever they want. They can choose to not get the vaccine because they are afraid of it. That includes NFL players

 

It doesn't have anything to do with their character or intelligence. This anti vax thing crosses all intelligence and character lines.  It also crosses some political lines

 

Makes no sense to me but, until we agree on a common set of facts, that's how it will stay.

I think what happens a lot with some is the feeling that they are being told to do something with their bodies or lifestyle that primarily benefits somebody other than themselves, when they are unsure if that action would hurt themselves.  Sort of coerced into social dogoodism.   That is something that can't generally be directed onto a person by other persons in higher positions. 

 

Most of the efforts around covid have been to control the spread to others beyond ourselves, not around increasing efforts for helping those who have it.  The message was usually about helping the community, not about helping yourself.  Even mask wearing was to prevent others from getting it, not preventing you from getting it.

 

So the way the preventative message has been delivered, that it benefits others (the more vulnerable) more directly than it benefits you (the less vulnerable), it gives many a desire to naturally push back. There is a natural reaction to push back and to not go where others want you to go out of instinctive self defense.   

 

 I think its a decision by some who have less of a drive for social dogoodism, not hate or intolerance.  Not all people respond well to preaching by nonpreachers.  Others embrace it, and are proud to fulfill the message.

 

I can see where it can cut across many typical social categorization buckets.

 

[NewColtsFan]

21 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

 

Wondering if the posters here who view this strictly as a person’s right….  Their choice…

 

Are you still going to feel the same way if one of the Colts best players tests positive and is forced to miss time?    Remember, this is likely to resurface in the second half of the season and the playoffs.   

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Zak and Stephen just posted a new podcast where they are going to talk about this. Will listen after lunch.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Stephen said his colts source said they are aware of the apprehension and they are trying to work through it. 

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, iuswingman said:

 

I think when anything gets this politicized, it makes it hard to get past that.  Then there were the anti-vaxers that existed before it became politicized and are still anti-vax.

 

Some people tell me because it isn't fda approved.  It will be interesting to see if they go get it once it is fda approved or if that was just a convenient excuse.

I don’t know how long the FDA will take to give full official approval, but a story I read yesterday said the average length of time for full approval is 10 years.   Now, I’m not expecting that in this case,  I’m just saying those waiting on the government might be wsiting longer than they expect. 

[DougDew]

21 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Wondering if the posters here who view this strictly as a person’s right….  Their choice…

 

Are you still going to feel the same way if one of the Colts best players tests positive and is forced to miss time?    Remember, this is likely to resurface in the second half of the season and the playoffs.   

I think the only way it can be viewed as a personal right is because it involves a medical process, which are protected as a matter of personal choices.

 

Its fundamental why employers and governments have to make vaxs a personal choice.  How can you command someone to not choose about their bodies one way, but demand they have the right to choose about their bodies another way?  

 

Common sense says that it is not a personal right since their actions involve the health of another human.  But common sense doesn't always prevail.

 

Other issues that don't involve personal health or medical issues can be more prescriptive. 

[Fisticuffs111]

13 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

Zak and Stephen just posted a new podcast where they are going to talk about this. Will listen after lunch.

 

Mostly about the competitive disadvantage. Not just players potentially missing games but also the restrictions off-field that are big too. I think that part gets kind of ignored or glossed over by a lot of people.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Stephen thinks that when players see the freedoms vaccinated  players have more players will get vaccinated.  When they see vaccinated players not having to be tested everyday ect he thinks things will change. Players are going to want more freedom to do what they want on days off and not have to be tested everyday.

[NewColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think the only way it can be viewed as a personal right is because it involves a medical process, which are protected as a matter of personal choices.

 

Its fundamental why employers and governments have to make vaxs a personal choice.  How can you command someone to not choose about their bodies one way, but demand they have the right to choose about their bodies another way?  

 

Common sense says that it is not a personal right since their actions involve the health of another human.  But folks like to toss out common sense when it suits their lifestyle.

 

Other issues that don't involve personal health or medical issues can be more prescriptive. 

I understand all that, Doug…

 

I’m only asking a simple straightforward question….   Will those who support the players choice to not get the vaccine, for whatever reason,  still feel the same way if/when one of the Colts top players has to miss a game or two…. 
 

That’s all I’m asking. 

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

I understand all that, Doug…

 

I’m only asking a simple straightforward question….   Will those who support the players choice to not get the vaccine, for whatever reason,  still feel the same way if/when one of the Colts top players has to miss a game or two…. 
 

That’s all I’m asking. 

Well, if you're going to use the word "support"  I would assume they would support the person's decision.  I think most would be sad about the consequences.  I don't think the sadness or consequences drives the support or not.  I see them as two different things. 

[Nadine]

29 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think what happens a lot with some is the feeling that they are being told to do something with their bodies or lifestyle that primarily benefits somebody other than themselves, when they are unsure if that action would hurt themselves.  Sort of coerced into social dogoodism.   That is something that can't generally be directed onto a person by other persons in higher positions. 

 

Most of the efforts around covid have been to control the spread to others beyond ourselves, not around increasing efforts for helping those who have it.  The message was usually about helping the community, not about helping yourself.  Even mask wearing was to prevent others from getting it, not preventing you from getting it.

 

So the way the preventative message has been delivered, that it benefits others (the more vulnerable) more directly than it benefits you (the less vulnerable), it gives many a desire to naturally push back. There is a natural reaction to push back and to not go where others want you to go out of instinctive self defense.   

 

 I think its a decision by some who have less of a drive for social dogoodism, not hate or intolerance.  Not all people respond well to preaching by nonpreachers.  Others embrace it, and are proud to fulfill the message.

 

I can see where it can cut across many typical social categorization buckets.

 

I guess for some that's true. I didn't need an immediate tangible on how it was best for me personally. I don't have a negative reaction to being asked to contribute to the common good. Especially when I'm being asked for simple things that I can easily do.

 

My heart breaks for all the pain and suffering that has gone on this year. For people I know and for people I don't know.

 

I care about my country and my community.

 

It truly has been so devastatingly tragic.  Every day

 

Now we're in a situation where non vaccinated people are just gong to  be spreading it to non vaccinated people. Covid will find them one way or another.  Maybe it will be mild, maybe it will be terrible. Nothing much can be done about that other than spreading accurate information

 

And businesses like the NFL have to find a way to move forward. I think they're doing that and am optimistic we've reached a place where we can have fun at games again.

 

[chad72]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I was under the assumption that NFL players still get tested a lot even if vaccinated. After reading @Smonroepost I guess they don't. The NBA still does a lot of testing regardless. Having said that NFL players could still get randomly tested is what I have been looking up even if vaccinated. So that still means if someone who is vaccinated tests positive for Covid-19 than they will be out for a game more than likely.

 

You hit on an important point. My daughter's school is foregoing masks in middle school due to the availability of vaccines to middle and high school students for in person schooling. No more staggered lunches and back to crowded cafeterias. I am just afraid people are jumping the gun.

 

Vaccinated people can still get Covid-19 - that is a fact.

Vaccinated people viral load to transmit Covid-19 is far less than unvaccinated people - that is a fact.

 

If vaccinated people are symptomatic, I asked the school authorities that if they have a fever of 100 F or higher, even pre-Covid rules state those students should stay home, they probably will lean back to those rules is my understanding. Maybe not quarantined for 14 days but still stay home till the fever subsides. A symptomatic vaccinated person, how long they are contagious, those studies are still being done and we should get some data soon, waiting on those, that is KEY and affects every employer and school across the nation. We all know the rules are cut and dry for the unvaccinated, quarantine for 14 days.

 

There will still be enough unvaccinated kids in middle school that, IMO, it is not a prudent thing to abandon all safeguards of staggered lunch timings and contact tracing in the name of a "rush back to normal". It might be too late before they realize that. 

[NannyMcafee]

The only people getting upset by those not getting vaccinated are they themselves vaccinated. If youre this upset it tells me how little faith you actually have in the vaccine.. so it begs the question why you even got the vaccine in the first place if youre worried about its effectiveness against an unvaccinated person. 

 

If you think covid is going to go away youre sorely mistaken. The flu never went away and neither will covid. 

[Les Poulains]

3 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

The only people getting upset by those not getting vaccinated are they themselves vaccinated. If youre this upset it tells me how little faith you actually have in the vaccine.. so it begs the question why you even got the vaccine in the first place if youre worried about its effectiveness against an unvaccinated person. 

 

If you think covid is going to go away youre sorely mistaken. The flu never went away and neither will covid. 

What the hell does that first paragraph even mean? Complete, complete drivel. 

[NannyMcafee]

7 minutes ago, Les Poulains said:

What the hell does that first paragraph even mean? Complete, complete drivel. 

 

Id like to repeat it but it would seem the only effort youre willing to put in, is to say I am uneducated. If you have such faith in the vaccine and have taken it, your worries are over because clearly the vaccine has proven effective. 

[Les Poulains]

Just now, NannyMcafee said:

 

Id like to repeat it but it would seem the only effort youre willing to put in, is to say I am uneducated. 

I didnt say that, I said the paragraph was nonsense. I literally cannot decipher it. 

[NannyMcafee]

6 minutes ago, Les Poulains said:

I didnt say that, I said the paragraph was nonsense. I literally cannot decipher it. 

 

I dont see any unvaccinated people worried about other unvaccinated people. Only those who have been vaccinated are worried about those who haven't received the shot. 

 

I am questioning what they are worried about exactly? 

[SteelCityColt]

2 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

The only people getting upset by those not getting vaccinated are they themselves vaccinated. If youre this upset it tells me how little faith you actually have in the vaccine.. so it begs the question why you even got the vaccine in the first place if youre worried about its effectiveness against an unvaccinated person. 

 

If you think covid is going to go away youre sorely mistaken. The flu never went away and neither will covid. 

 

This is one way at looking at it or.....

 

I can choose to get the vaccine knowing it's not 100% effective, it's doesn't mean I lack "faith" in it. It's like saying I don't have faith in condoms and won't use one because they're not 100% effective. 

 

I would also worry as other people's choices can impact on mine. The point of a liberal (the actual definition not political) is by all means do what you like in life as long you don't impact negatively on others. By choosing to not get vaccinated people can have a negative impact on my life in a few ways. 

 

Firstly let's take the contact scenario, and using made up numbers for simplicity here. For arguments sake the general chance of getting COVID is 50%, but with a vaccine it's say 20%. I have contact with you and you're not vaccinated and you could say my chances of getting COVID are 10%.. if you've been vaccinated they drop to 4%. Multiply that up over the sample size of how ever many contacts and that's why vaccines have been the tried and tested method to eradicate or supress diseases. Add in that people who are very anti-vax do have some cross over with those who are very anti social distancing/masks or you know general manners/hygiene. 

 

The other impact is, if people don't get vacianted and we get more surges in cases, then the chances are we all have a little less 'freedom' in our lives. 

 

The comparison with flu is not apples to apples at all. Flu is in no way as infective as COVID. The stupid 1% mortality number that gets used, fails to add the context of incidence. It may be only 1% but if there's a high chance of infection that soon racks up to a big death toll. It's 'just' 1% would add up to 3+ million deaths in US if you had the extreme of everyone having a case of COVID.

 

Seriously, 600,000 plus deaths with draconian measures and  people are still saying it's all harmless/hoax. 

[chad72]

7 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

The other impact is, if people don't get vaccinated and we get more surges in cases,

 

Would it be accurate to state that mutations and variants emerge more that are resistant to vaccines if the virus is allowed to spread more among the unvaccinated rendering initial vaccines less effective? 

[Les Poulains]

8 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

I dont see any unvaccinated people worried about other unvaccinated people. Only those who have been vaccinated are worried about those who haven't received the shot. 

 

I am questioning what they are worried about exactly? 

Umm, that the pandemic continues to rage on at an uncontrollable rate, maybe? Continuation of lockdowns for the foreseeable future with new variants popping up with no conceivable solution until the virus maybe burns out? Or maybe it wouldnt. Those are very valid concerns. Vaccines are a tangible solution to ending the pandemic for all of us, if you take it. If you dont, with few exceptions willing, you are essentially doing nothing to help, no matter how you want to justify your choice. I know you think youre making a smart point here, but I dont think you get it, so Ill stop there. 

[SteelCityColt]

3 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Would it be accurate to state that mutations and variants emerge more that are resistant to vaccines if the virus is allowed to spread more among the unvaccinated rendering initial vaccines less effective? 

I’m not enough of an expert to comment but initial signs against the Indian variant are encouraging. 
 

You could argue that this first round is just a sticking plaster to get the world back to some normality while longer term strategies are figured out. 

[The Fish]

5 minutes ago, Les Poulains said:

Umm, that the pandemic continues to rage on at an uncontrollable rate, maybe? Continuation of lockdowns for the foreseeable future with new variants popping up with no conceivable solution until the virus maybe burns out? Or maybe it wouldnt. Those are very valid concerns. Vaccines are a tangible solution to ending the pandemic for all of us, if you take it. If you dont, with few exceptions willing, you are essentially doing nothing to help, no matter how you want to justify your choice. I know you think youre making a smart point here, but I dont think you get it, so Ill stop there. 

"I know you think youre making a smart point here, but I dont think you get it, so Ill stop there. "

 

 

No, do look at the data and show us where it's "raging out of control". We can do India too. 1/7 the death rate per million compared to America.. 

 

And natural immunity is a thing, for the crowd who thought "herd immunity" was a myth or something last year, while triple masking or whatever.

 

CDC COVID Data Tracke rhttps://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#trends_dailytrendscases

[Nadine]

24 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

The only people getting upset by those not getting vaccinated are they themselves vaccinated. If youre this upset it tells me how little faith you actually have in the vaccine.. so it begs the question why you even got the vaccine in the first place if youre worried about its effectiveness against an unvaccinated person. 

 

If you think covid is going to go away youre sorely mistaken. The flu never went away and neither will covid. 

Covid isn't going away.  It will lose our focus when it's death toll gets down to where the flu is. Vaccinations will get us there.

 

As to vaccinated people being upset and not having faith in the vaccine, that's just a spin

 

I'm not upset with unvaccinated people.  I do think we need to be aware of them and proceed accordingly. They are mostly only hurting themselves.  Where they cross the line into putting others at risk is another matter.

[Les Poulains]

1 minute ago, The Fish said:

"I know you think youre making a smart point here, but I dont think you get it, so Ill stop there. "

 

 

No, do look at the data and show us where it's "raging out of control". We can do India too. 1/7 the death rate per million compared to America.. 

 

And natural immunity is a thing, for the crowd who thought "herd immunity" was a myth or something last year, while triple masking or whatever.

 

CDC COVID Data Tracke rhttps://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#trends_dailytrendscases

 

You didnt even read my post correctly. I was asked why we would be worried about the unvaccinated and I gave scenarios as to what could happen if people didnt get vaccinated. The data we see now is with more than half of populations in numerous countries vaccinated. 

[Chrisaaron1023]

 

Before this thread gets shut down.. 

 

It's their business. But hey, maybe Jim should offer them 5 mill more a year for the jab since this is how far we've come...