Wentz

[shasta519]

7 minutes ago, stitches said:

I've had this bottled up for a while but what better place and time to release it than mid-June. I've been listening to series of podcasts, TV segments, radio hits, etc. about Wentz and the Colts and a ton of them bring up the same exact sentiment in different forms that can be shortly summarized by "The Colts don't need Wentz to be Luck/2017 Wentz/MVP, they just need him to be an average QB because of the strong roster they've put around him".

 

I can't handle this anymore. This is complete and utter nonsense. If we want to be a legit contender year to year we need Wentz to be great, we don't need him to be mediocre. You don't pay 1st and 3d round pick + 100M in contract value for a player you expect to be Kirk Cousins(sorry @NFLfan). We want him AND NEED him to be more. This is especially true when the young all-pros and pro-bowl adjacent players that are on cheap rookie deals now graduate to huge paydays and/or leave because we can't pay them. We NEED the QB we are paying big money and big assets for to be great . Imagine me saying "we don't need Buckner to be great, we just need him to be at about Grover Stewart level, because the rest of the roster is so good". wth? This is horrible reasoning. You don't determine expectations of players based on the rest of your roster. You determine them by their talent and what you are paying for them and what reasonably would justify the price you are paying. 

 

SO yeah. I'm not on board with that sentiment. I want and expect Wentz to be great. I want and expect him to be the engine, not the trailer of this offense. He needs to be really really good. Or we will continue to fight tooth and nail for playoff spots and be bounced out in the wildcard rounds. Prolonged success/dynasties are almost always tied to a great QB and we need him to be that for us. Mediocre QBs give you mediocre consistency in team performance. 

 

LOL I have heard this as well. It's such a goofy narrative that continues to get parroted through the local media. Almost like a collective effort to manage expectations for Wentz (to avoid any potential issues that might or might not have been prevalent in PHI). Or perhaps a way to set the bar lower...same difference.

 

I really have no clue why they say the things they say, but I do agree that it is complete nonsense. It's as lazy as it is impractical. For this team to get to the SB, the offense has to get better:

 

In 2020 (with Rivers), they were #12 in offense DVOA and #16 in passing offense DVOA.

 

In 2018 (with Luck), they were #10 in offense DVOA and #11 in passing offense DVOA.

 

Going back to the start of the Luck era, only ONE SB participant has had a team offense outside the top 7 (DVOA) and a passing offense outside the 8 (DVOA).  It was the same team...that elite DEN defense in 2015. 

 

So for the Colts to get to the SB, the team offense needs to improve. And for that to happen, the passing offense has to improve and become great (top 8 or better in DVOA). And how does the passing offense improve to that level? 

 

Also, only TWO SB QBs in that same timeframe have finished outside the top 8 in EPA...Manning on that 2015 team and Brady (#10) in 2018. 

 

Respectively, Luck finished #11 and Rivers #8. So they actually had a QB who performed at that level last year. Yet, between Luck and Rivers, the Colts are 1-2 in the playoffs. So again, how is the passing offense going to improve without great QB play?

 

You are right. It doesn't make any sense. They absolutely need Wentz to be great to advance this team. And not only that, they still might need some help. 

[ColtV]

100%. The 4 qb's in the AFC semis last year were 25 years old or younger at game time. The Colts are going to be dealing with these guys for a while I fear. And there very well may be another wave right behind them in Burrow,, Tongavialoa, Herbert, etc. We're seeing a literal arms race in the afc

[CoachLite]

51 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

You are right. It doesn't make any sense. They absolutely need Wentz to be great to advance this team. And not only that, they still might need some help. 

They don't need Wentz to be perfect, they just need him to play near his ability.  I think he has excellent ability so I'm not concerned about Wentz at all. Sit back and enjoy the ride. 

[Nickster]

5 hours ago, richard pallo said:

I have to admit I lol when I read your “easy part” examples of Ballards attempt at team building.  Those were certainly no brainer can’t miss moves right?  I guess you think so.  I guess it’s “this current plan “ that has you worried.  I have to admit you do a good job of straddling the fence.  Lol. 

How about easier part.  More accurate as to what I mean. Easy part is figurative.  I think he’s done a great job making us competitive out of a disaster, but I AM ON THE FENCE, as to whether his plan will get us to championship level.

 

  As far as being on the fence am not polar on these issues.  I liked Rock.  Right now not real confident on him.  None of the EDGE type players he’s drafted have panned out yet.  Doesn’t mean they won’t. Dayo and Paye aren’t projected to come in right  away and be really good sackers.  Paye is raw and Dayo is injured.  I could see this line being like a couple hockey lines constantly running bodies in and out and playing fast and fresh.  Appears Ballard is trying to mimic SF and run guys in and out,  I could see it’s working if Dayo and Paye produce as is hoped, but the other guys haven’t done defecate yet.  I saw some good stuff from Turay but not very much of it.
 

so far there hasn’t been great production from Ballard’s Wr, DE, and CB drafting.  Those are the harder ones to build.  I like what he’s done so far, just not sure where this team goes from here.  There will be cap issues after next season too.

 

 

[Nickster]

17 hours ago, EastStreet said:

We were great at turnovers last year, just lacking in coverage. It would have been nice to get one of those INTs, but it would have been as good or better if we simply didn't give up 300+ yards passing. We were carved up plain and simple.

Carved like Daniel Day Lewis’ character in Gangs of New York.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Wentz needs to make big plays when they are called for. He doesn’t have to play hero ball is where some of that commentary is coming from I think. If he makes the big plays when asked and runs the offense efficiently this will be a very good team.

[Nickster]

17 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I actually like the early schedule for the most part, and no, I'm not into S&M lol.

 

I just think the timing of it is good, and I like having the easy stretch at the end of the year. Stinks that we'll likely be without Fisher to start the season, but the easy stretch at the end could be very beneficial in getting guys rested and healthy. I'm ifot saying we just sit guys at the end of the year or anything, but if we've got key injuries, we should be able to get by, and use the time to get healthy for the playoffs.

 

1. Seattle - Home game. We have our core back, and Seattle has been a bit down. As long as our LT holds up, we get the win IMO. We're early Vegas favs.
2. Rams - Another home game. The downside is their stud potentially killing our LT, but I'd rather get their new QB earlier than later.
3. Titans - can't really complain about a division team. Tough away game, but it's going to happen during the season twice anyway.
4. Dolphins - Unless Reich pulls another boneheaded 2019 game plan in Miami, we should win this easily. Yes, improved, but still we have a much better can more complete team.
5. Ravens - Tough one, but Reich needs to get over the Raven's hump at some point. A lot of other teams seem to have figured them out, so Reich needs too. I also think our improved QB mobility will be huge vs the blitz happy D.
6. Houston - If we don't win this one, we don't have the team I think we do.

Overall, 3-3 to start would be great, and I think we can do that. I think we might be able to go 4-2. Then the rest of the schedule is much more manageable. 

 

One thing I really hope for..... is that Reich doesn't think he can keep training wheels on Wentz early...... The Rams, Seahawks, and Ravens are all top 10 vs the run. We're going to need to be successful throwing the ball. The necessity to pass is something I like because it may force Reich to open things up a bit, or at minimum, let Wentz be Wentz, and give him some confidence. How he responds if things are on his back could tell us a lot early about his development. 

I’d suspect Wentz will be coached the same way he was coached when Reich was in Philly, but TBH, I have no idea how that was.  You have any ideas of how he was managed?

[EastStreet]

2 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

 

Right, you can make cases for many QBs...and stronger cases in most cases. That's why it's a crazy high expectation.

 

I get that 2020 had a ton of context, but it's also intellectually dishonest to act like 2020 didn't happen...especially when we are projecting stats. There is a huge lack of stability in the stats, which makes it even harder to project.

On the first bolded..... I'm going to bet you didn't look at the prior links I posted about OL snap counts and injuries, and WR stats, injuries, etc...

 

So, here they are again...

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/phi/2020.htm

https://www.lineups.com/nfl/snap-counts/philadelphia-eagles-snap-counts

 

In short, 2020 was atrocious in Philly for just about every reason.

• a ton of pressures and sacks
• a ton of drops
• a new OL lineup almost every week
• not one WR in the top 3 in receiving yards due to WR injuries. Aside from Ertz, bet you can't name the other two.
• mediocre/bad rushing... bet you can't name their top 2 RBs....

Here's a blurb from PFF on their OL...

 

"The Eagles’ offensive line went through the wringer this past season, as they were trotting out a new starting five up front seemingly every week due to injury. Those injuries all came after they lost projected starting left tackle Andre Dillard and right guard Brandon Brooks to injury before the season began. Eleven different offensive linemen played at least 50 snaps for Philadelphia this season. It’s going to be nearly impossible for any offensive line to lose all that talent and still produce at a high level."

 

Please tell me what QB wouldn't take a major dookie in stats if the above happened.

 

2 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

I also think pointing to 2019 is a weak argument. You basically have QBR, along with a few counting stats. There are so many variables in counting stats that don't really measure QB play.

 

Either way, it's certainly not 'most stats' in 2019.

 

Dude, I just listed the 3 most used QB stats. QBR, PR, and YPG... and added several others like TDs, Comp%, and ANY/A. What stats or grades are better? LOL. He also had to deal with a ton of injuries in 2019, especially a revolving door at WR. 

 

Falling back on the "there are so many variables" is a lazy response for people trying to argue against a preponderance of evidence. I get it if it was just one stat, but all the big ones say pretty much the same thing. So they are all wrong because of some mysterious variables that you can even name.... Come on man.

 

2 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

His 2019 ANY/A might have been average because the offense ran through TEs and RBs. But it's also why his QBR was at high as it is. Goedert, Sanders, Scott...all got him a TON of YAC. And look at his box scores AFTER Jeffrey and Agholor went down. He greatly benefited from that offense running through TEs and RBs in 2019.

He had a ton of injury to WR..... I'm sorry, but that's not a good thing.... PFF had him ranked top 10 earlier in the season before his WR core got decimated. He was still 12th in week 14... He kept sliding though because he didn't have WRs and ended up 16th rated heading into 2020... 

2 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

And I expect his QBR will be really good in Indy as well...because Reich runs an offense that is very favorable to that stat.

 

But QBR is just one stat. In that 2019 season, he was #20 in EPA and #20 in DVOA. For what it's worth, his PFF grade was #16. Along with being #16 in ANY/A...you really have a QB more in the 15-20 range, not 8-12. Here is his PFF summary:

Did you even read the PFF blurb you posted, and notice that it specifically called out the WR injuries, and the reason he faded..

2 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

I think he can get back to his 2019 level, but even if he does, it might not matter how conservative or "stable" the Colts offense is if he's still mediocre in those situations, especially if he can't replicate the big throws.

If he returns to 2019 form, with our team, a much better team all around, simple logic would suggest his stats would be better in Indy.... 

2 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

But like I said before...2019 was two seasons ago. Not only has the QB landscape changed dramatically (meaning there are more good QBs now), but QB stats have improved. That 2019 QBR would have been 20th (behind Rivers) last season, that 2019 EPA would have been #22 and that ANY/A would have been #23.

Huh???? His EPA in 2019 was ranked 6th at 90.5.......... In 2020, 90.5 would have ranked him 11th.....

https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr/_/seasontype/2/sort/cwepaTotal/dir/desc

 

BTW, I'm pretty sure EPA grading (formula) changed from 19 to 20.... It's why almost EVERYONE jumped..... lol

 

Also, were you aware EPA is one part of QBR??????? It's why people quote QBR, instead of EPA.... 

2 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

 

Barring injuries from multiple high-profile QBs, a 2019 level season from Wentz is not going to get him close to the 8-12 range in the 2022 NFL. We will just have to agree to disagree on this particular prediction.

You've made no statistical argument, or provided any linear logic to back your point. 

But OK>..... lol

[EastStreet]

1 hour ago, Nickster said:

Carved like Daniel Day Lewis’ character in Gangs of New York.

[EastStreet]

54 minutes ago, Nickster said:

I’d suspect Wentz will be coached the same way he was coached when Reich was in Philly, but TBH, I have no idea how that was.  You have any ideas of how he was managed?

Nope.... All I know is that play calling in Philly when Reich was there, is not the same as Reich's play calling in Indy... 

 

Probably morning prayer with Frank, followed by 

[Nickster]

35 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Nope.... All I know is that play calling in Philly when Reich was there, is not the same as Reich's play calling in Indy... 

 

Probably morning prayer with Frank, followed by 

You sure don’t rank Frank and you are consistent on it.

[Nickster]

42 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I hope this is not what passing O’s look like to us again this year.

 

I sure disagree with you that having the harder schedule early is better for us this year.  Pass rush could be a HUGE negative early with no Vet EDgE a raw Paye and Dayo in his Civvies.  I would expect our rush to be significantly improved later on in the season.  New QB should be better later too.

[EastStreet]

4 hours ago, Nickster said:

You sure don’t rank Frank and you are consistent on it.

I don't dislike Frank. I think he's a great guy. However.... if looking at his complete coaching career, it's a very mixed bag. He gets way too much credit for not-calling-plays for the 2017 Eagles???... And nobody wants to talk about his horrible balance when he was in LAC, or his mixed bag here in Indy. I get it, we've had a revolving door at QB. That doesn't diminish some of the super bad and illogical game plans we've seen periodically, or some some very questionable play calling. There's just a decent amount of stuff that you simply can't "splain" away, and typically gets a lazy response like "oh you think you know better than..."... lol

 

He's got his QB now, and I'm cheering for him cause I want to win. Just not sure a status quo O scheme will yield much more than years past. We shall see, but I'm really hoping we take big steps forward in several areas (including coaching). IMO, pivotal year for him.

4 hours ago, Nickster said:

I hope this is not what passing O’s look like to us again this year.

 

I sure disagree with you that having the harder schedule early is better for us this year.  Pass rush could be a HUGE negative early with no Vet EDgE a raw Paye and Dayo in his Civvies.  I would expect our rush to be significantly improved later on in the season.  New QB should be better later too.

The only problem I see is not having FIsher early. Teams won't have film on Paye, so I expect him to flash early. I'm not really counting on much of anything from Dayo this year. Lewis should do a decent job replacing Autry in the tweener role. I'm more concerned with LB and S play than DL.

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I don't dislike Frank. I think he's a great guy. However.... if looking at his complete coaching career, it's a very mixed bag. He gets way too much credit for not-calling-plays for the 2017 Eagles???... And nobody wants to talk about his horrible balance when he was in LAC, or his mixed bag here in Indy. I get it, we've had a revolving door at QB. That doesn't diminish some of the super bad and illogical game plans we've seen periodically, or some some very questionable play calling. There's just a decent amount of stuff that you simply can't "splain" away, and typically gets a lazy response like "oh you think you know better than..."... lol

 

He's got his QB now, and I'm cheering for him cause I want to win. Just not sure a status quo O scheme will yield much more than years past. We shall see, but I'm really hoping we take big steps forward in several areas (including coaching). IMO, pivotal year for him.

The only problem I see is not having FIsher early. Teams won't have film on Paye, so I expect him to flash early. I'm not really counting on much of anything from Dayo this year. Lewis should do a decent job replacing Autry in the tweener role. I'm more concerned with LB and S play than DL.

 

I don't think anyone in here ranks Frank as a great headcoach or as even a very good headcoach. On my scale he is arguably good though, better than average IMO. When he had a healthy Luck and Rivers he went 10-6 and 11-5 in those seasons. Even when JB started and finished games, the Colts were 7-7. I like Frank's overall approach to the game and even his gambling ways sometimes.

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I don't think anyone in here ranks Frank as a great headcoach or as even a very good headcoach. On my scale he is arguably good though, better than average IMO. When he had a healthy Luck and Rivers he went 10-6 and 11-5 in those seasons. Even when JB started and finished games, the Colts were 7-7. I like Frank's overall approach to the game and even his gambling ways sometimes.

 

I think you underestimate some of the Frank worshipers on the board. Not near as many as the Ballard worshipers, but still plenty. I think he is above average overall, with some very horrendous moments. And I don't mind gambling, but some of the bets he made were bad bets lol. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I think you underestimate some of the Frank worshipers on the board. Not near as many as the Ballard worshipers, but still plenty. I think he is above average overall, with some very horrendous moments. And I don't mind gambling, but some of the bets he made were bad bets lol. 

Yeah going for it on 4th sometimes pays off and sometimes it doesn't. That playoff game at Buffalo is still fresh in people's mind and I can see why, it was the last game we played. Above average is a fair ranking.

[EastStreet]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah going for it on 4th sometimes pays off and sometimes it doesn't. That playoff game at Buffalo is still fresh in people's mind and I can see why, it was the last game we played. Above average is a fair ranking.

I don't mind following what the card (statistics) says. Pretty sure Frank ignored the card several times lol. The 4th and 4 was definitely not on the card. I'm fine with going on 4th and 1 anytime if were past the 50. And I will also take the tie (FG) in a close game. 

[Nickster]

9 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I don't dislike Frank. I think he's a great guy. However.... if looking at his complete coaching career, it's a very mixed bag. He gets way too much credit for not-calling-plays for the 2017 Eagles???... And nobody wants to talk about his horrible balance when he was in LAC, or his mixed bag here in Indy. I get it, we've had a revolving door at QB. That doesn't diminish some of the super bad and illogical game plans we've seen periodically, or some some very questionable play calling. There's just a decent amount of stuff that you simply can't "splain" away, and typically gets a lazy response like "oh you think you know better than..."... lol

 

He's got his QB now, and I'm cheering for him cause I want to win. Just not sure a status quo O scheme will yield much more than years past. We shall see, but I'm really hoping we take big steps forward in several areas (including coaching). IMO, pivotal year for him.

The only problem I see is not having FIsher early. Teams won't have film on Paye, so I expect him to flash early. I'm not really counting on much of anything from Dayo this year. Lewis should do a decent job replacing Autry in the tweener role. I'm more concerned with LB and S play than DL.

 

I’m with you on LB and safety play in coverage totally, but I think kerosene will be thrown on it because early I expect an inadequate pass rush, worse than last year to start with.  
 

I did like some of what I saw from Turay though, so I could see him with Paye at the least getting some attention, and Buck dominating breaking through this season.  Not counting on it but hopeful.

[Nickster]

9 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I don't think anyone in here ranks Frank as a great headcoach or as even a very good headcoach. On my scale he is arguably good though, better than average IMO. When he had a healthy Luck and Rivers he went 10-6 and 11-5 in those seasons. Even when JB started and finished games, the Colts were 7-7. I like Frank's overall approach to the game and even his gambling ways sometimes.

I think he’s very good, and personally I think it’s obvious.  
 

I dont like some of the gambles he takes, but overall I think he’s been fantastic at steering this team through some difficult circumstances.

 

at the very least he’s the best HC the Indy Colts have ever had, though personally I don’t think we’ve had great ones.  Some good but none great IMO.

[2006Coltsbestever]

41 minutes ago, Nickster said:

I think he’s very good, and personally I think it’s obvious.  
 

I dont like some of the gambles he takes, but overall I think he’s been fantastic at steering this team through some difficult circumstances.

 

at the very least he’s the best HC the Indy Colts have ever had, though personally I don’t think we’ve had great ones.  Some good but none great IMO.

Going by the Indy era (1984-2021 seasons), I have Dungy #1, he was great but let me explain the great part. He wasn't like top 10 ever great. There are different levels of great = coaches as in BB, Lombardi, Walsh, Knoll, Landry, Shula, Gibbs, Parcells, Shannhan, and I even think Andy Reid was better. That is 10 coaches off the top of my head that are top 10 material. All have won Multiple SB's except Reid but Reid has won 1 like Dungy + he has led coached teams to 6 Championship Games/2 SB's. Dungy was 82-30 here and we won a SB with him so he deserves the #1 slot, JMO. Who is 2nd is the million dollar question?? Because like you said we haven't had great one's to choose from. I am not a Frank worshiper nor do I think he is great but I will say if someone put him at #2, I wouldn't scoff at it. Chuck had a decent record here at the start, Meyer was ok too in the late 80's, and Marchibroda I really thought was good (1995) but Frank is as good as them IMO. Caldwell is in that convo as well, he was good in 2009 but we seen how he coached without Manning at QB, we were 2-14 that season. 

[Nickster]

28 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Going by the Indy era (1984-2021 seasons), I have Dungy #1, he was great but let me explain the great part. He wasn't like top 10 ever great. There are different levels of great = coaches as in BB, Lombardi, Walsh, Knoll, Landry, Shula, Gibbs, Parcells, Shannhan, and I even think Andy Reid was better. That is 10 coaches off the top of my head that are top 10 material. All have won Multiple SB's except Reid but Reid has won 1 like Dungy + he has led coached teams to 6 Championship Games/2 SB's. Dungy was 82-30 here and we won a SB with him so he deserves the #1 slot, JMO. Who is 2nd is the million dollar question?? Because like you said we haven't had great one's to choose from. I am not a Frank worshiper nor do I think he is great but I will say if someone put him at #2, I wouldn't scoff at it. Chuck had a decent record here at the start, Meyer was ok too in the late 80's, and Marchibroda I really thought was good (1995) but Frank is as good as them IMO. Caldwell is in that convo as well, he was good in 2009 but we seen how he coached without Manning at QB, we were 2-14 that season. 

Yeah Dungy is really hard to argue against.  His record is difficult to argue. All a person really has to say in favor of Dungy is 139 and 69 and Super Bowl Champion.

 

The Manning factor though is undeniable.  
 

So I’ll just put it this way,  I feel Frank is better than TD or any of the other guys.  I really rate the job he's done here under fairly unprecedented circumstances IMO.

 

to me, the simple question to ask is what did he do with what he had?  I think American fans are too caught up in who won what. It’s a major factor obviously, but not the only major factor IMO.

 

The coach doesn’t play and generally doesn’t general manage.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Yeah Dungy is really hard to argue against.  His record is difficult to argue. All a person really has to say in favor of Dungy is 139 and 69 and Super Bowl Champion.

 

The Manning factor though is undeniable.  
 

So I’ll just put it this way,  I feel Frank is better than TD or any of the other guys.  I really rate the job he's done here under fairly unprecedented circumstances IMO.

It is really sad and almost cringe worthy to wonder what Frank and Ballard could have accomplished if Andrew Luck had a long career here. We may have won a SB already?? In 2018 things were looking really good. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

45 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Yeah Dungy is really hard to argue against.  His record is difficult to argue. All a person really has to say in favor of Dungy is 139 and 69 and Super Bowl Champion.

 

The Manning factor though is undeniable.  
 

So I’ll just put it this way,  I feel Frank is better than TD or any of the other guys.  I really rate the job he's done here under fairly unprecedented circumstances IMO.

 

to me, the simple question to ask is what did he do with what he had?  I think American fans are too caught up in who won what. It’s a major factor obviously, but not the only major factor IMO.

 

The coach doesn’t play and generally doesn’t general manage.

We should've won more than 1 SB with Dungy I agree. Having said that there have been a lot of same great core teams that have only 1 SB = the 70's Raiders when Madden was coach, the Favre led Packers in the 90's only won 1, same for the Rodgers led Packers, also coaches like Sean Peyton and Mike Tomlin have had many very good to great teams and only won 1. It happens unfortunately to many. When I think about our run with Peyton and winning only 1 SB, I think about the 90's Bills from 1990-1993 who won 0 and the Dolphins with Dan Marino and Don Shula coaching who won 0. It just makes me feel better . At least we were World Champions.

[NodakColt]

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Listening to Marlon Mack interview on the colts podcast. They were talking about how different it will be in 22 to have the same QB for more then a year. I think we will need to have a little patience this season. But the second year with Wentz should be huge.

[Four2itus]

I think Frank is a great coach.

[a06cc]

Carson is on Frank Reich. Remember Phylis Rivers lead the league in interceptions before coming here. Yes I get to call him Phylis. He took away our joy in 07 and 08 seasons. I can’t forgive that lol. Back to the topic. I hope Carson can elevate this team. Regardless I believe we’ll be fine. Defense pass rush looks promising 

[NFLfan]

On 6/15/2021 at 1:51 PM, stitches said:

You don't pay 1st and 3d round pick + 100M in contract value for a player you expect to be Kirk Cousins(sorry @NFLfan). We want him AND NEED him to be more.

 

No apologies. I understand. I agree.

[EastStreet]

On 6/16/2021 at 8:34 AM, Nickster said:

I’m with you on LB and safety play in coverage totally, but I think kerosene will be thrown on it because early I expect an inadequate pass rush, worse than last year to start with.  
 

I did like some of what I saw from Turay though, so I could see him with Paye at the least getting some attention, and Buck dominating breaking through this season.  Not counting on it but hopeful.

Lewis's production/snap was actually as good or better than any of our DEs. I realize he was tweener'd and was situational (which helped his stats), but I still expect him to do a decent job replacing Autry. I think Paye will do fine early. Sure he'll have some struggles, but his motor alone will likely put him on par with our DEs last year. At the end of the day, Buckner is still going to draw a lot of attention so the DEs in general will get opportunity. If Turay comes on, all the better. My biggest beef with the DL is simply it's predictability and near league low blitz.  

[Nickster]

10 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Lewis's production/snap was actually as good or better than any of our DEs. I realize he was tweener'd and was situational (which helped his stats), but I still expect him to do a decent job replacing Autry. I think Paye will do fine early. Sure he'll have some struggles, but his motor alone will likely put him on par with our DEs last year. At the end of the day, Buckner is still going to draw a lot of attention so the DEs in general will get opportunity. If Turay comes on, all the better. My biggest beef with the DL is simply it's predictability and near league low blitz.  

[Nickster]

So you want less of our LBs and S in coverage?

 

 

 

 

[NodakColt]

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

In Buckners interview with Rich Eisen he said he had Carson and his family over for dinner before Buckner left to go back to Vegas to train.

[Thebrashandthebold]

On 6/15/2021 at 11:48 AM, shasta519 said:

 

LOL I have heard this as well. It's such a goofy narrative that continues to get parroted through the local media. Almost like a collective effort to manage expectations for Wentz (to avoid any potential issues that might or might not have been prevalent in PHI). Or perhaps a way to set the bar lower...same difference.

 

I really have no clue why they say the things they say, but I do agree that it is complete nonsense. It's as lazy as it is impractical. For this team to get to the SB, the offense has to get better:

 

In 2020 (with Rivers), they were #12 in offense DVOA and #16 in passing offense DVOA.

 

In 2018 (with Luck), they were #10 in offense DVOA and #11 in passing offense DVOA.

 

Going back to the start of the Luck era, only ONE SB participant has had a team offense outside the top 7 (DVOA) and a passing offense outside the 8 (DVOA).  It was the same team...that elite DEN defense in 2015. 

 

So for the Colts to get to the SB, the team offense needs to improve. And for that to happen, the passing offense has to improve and become great (top 8 or better in DVOA). And how does the passing offense improve to that level? 

 

Also, only TWO SB QBs in that same timeframe have finished outside the top 8 in EPA...Manning on that 2015 team and Brady (#10) in 2018. 

 

Respectively, Luck finished #11 and Rivers #8. So they actually had a QB who performed at that level last year. Yet, between Luck and Rivers, the Colts are 1-2 in the playoffs. So again, how is the passing offense going to improve without great QB play?

 

You are right. It doesn't make any sense. They absolutely need Wentz to be great to advance this team. And not only that, they still might need some help. 

If we have a super dominant running game then the passing game needs to be efficient but it doesn't have to be a top 8. 

 

[Thebrashandthebold]

On 6/16/2021 at 4:36 PM, Wentzszn said:

Listening to Marlon Mack interview on the colts podcast. They were talking about how different it will be in 22 to have the same QB for more then a year. I think we will need to have a little patience this season. But the second year with Wentz should be huge.

IF, there is a second year. This was year where lots of QBs changed teams but I don't think Indy had much or any competition for Wentz. Why do you suppose that was the case? Other teams if they made the same trade would have been providing draft picks that would have come much earlier in the day.

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 hours ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

IF, there is a second year. This was year where lots of QBs changed teams but I don't think Indy had much or any competition for Wentz. Why do you suppose that was the case? Other teams if they made the same trade would have been providing draft picks that would have come much earlier in the day.

 

I am not worried about Wentz playing that bad and not getting a second year. Lol

[EastStreet]

2 hours ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

IF, there is a second year. This was year where lots of QBs changed teams but I don't think Indy had much or any competition for Wentz. Why do you suppose that was the case? Other teams if they made the same trade would have been providing draft picks that would have come much earlier in the day.

Most would assume there will be a 2nd year given the contract structure, and simply because we're likely to give up a 1st round pick next year. IIRC, there's no dead cap after next year, so all bets are off once we get through next season. In short, the "IF" is a very, very, very small IF. 

 

 

[EastStreet]

8 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

In Buckners interview with Rich Eisen he said he had Carson and his family over for dinner before Buckner left to go back to Vegas to train.

DeFo is a good guy. Don't forget he's a bit unique too. He's from Hawaii (his mom was Samoan), likes to paint, and was just baptized a Christian late last year. Really really well spoken, and seems to be very humble. I think he clicked well with Rivers too. He grew up a Chargers fan. He and Carson also have new-ish additions to their family. I remember watching one of his first interviews and he was not at all like I pictured for a 3T wrecking ball lol.. He seems laid back (off the field) and I could see him and Carson bonding.

 

Here's one.

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

13 hours ago, EastStreet said:

DeFo is a good guy. Don't forget he's a bit unique too. He's from Hawaii (his mom was Samoan), likes to paint, and was just baptized a Christian late last year. Really really well spoken, and seems to be very humble. I think he clicked well with Rivers too. He grew up a Chargers fan. He and Carson also have new-ish additions to their family. I remember watching one of his first interviews and he was not at all like I pictured for a 3T wrecking ball lol.. He seems laid back (off the field) and I could see him and Carson bonding.

 

Here's one.

 

He mentioned how Carson’s little girl and his son are just 3 days apart.  It’s nice to see players from different sides of the ball bonding. 
 

Nor to get going on vaccinations again but Buckner was very well spoken in that Eisen interview on vaccinations and why he and his wife decided to get vaccinated. Every player needs to do that kind of research and stop with all the conspiracy theories. 

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

On 6/14/2021 at 12:02 AM, EastStreet said:

Assuming Frank doesn't change the scheme much, I'd predict Wentz will be right around 8-12ish in most QB stat/rank categories. 

 

I wish folks would take a look how injuries impacted his OL over the season. And also his pass catching unit. Travis Fulgham was his leading pass catcher. I bet most folks would say "who is that". There was just a lot of bad going on last season in Philly. 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/phi/2020.htm

https://www.lineups.com/nfl/snap-counts/philadelphia-eagles-snap-counts

I watched games from last season & Travis Fulgham looked pretty good he & Wentz connected alot  it will be interesting in the passing game this season our receivers are not as bad as some seem to believe . I do believe given the weapons around Wentz will lead to more then 10 wins this season .IMHO