Bill Pollan didn't reach his first SB until after he was GM for 7 years.

[2006Coltsbestever]

56 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

 

I know it's not a popular opinion but I consider Dungy good not great, 1 Super Bowl appearance/win with Manning was underperforming.

I think he has to be considered great (he also is the Hall of Fame) but there are even different levels of great  . Was he Vince Lombardi, Chuck Knoll, Don Shula, Tom Landry, Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs, or BB great - I would say no. Having said that he did almost take a Bucs team to the SB in 1999 with Shaun King playing QB lol, they barely lost to the explosive Rams in the NFC Title Game. Dungy built that great D in Tampa. His record here from 2002-2008 was 82-30 in 7 seasons + a SB win. I understand having Manning was like having a Michael Jordan on your team but Dungy still had a great career coaching wise. 

[GoColts8818]

19 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think he has to be considered great (he also is the Hall of Fame) but there are even different levels of great  . Was he Vince Lombardi, Chuck Knoll, Don Shula, Tom Landry, Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs, or BB great - I would say no. Having said that he did almost take a Bucs team to the SB in 1999 with Shaun King playing QB lol, they barely lost to the explosive Rams in the NFC Title Game. Dungy built that great D in Tampa. His record here from 2002-2008 was 82-30 in 7 seasons + a SB win. I understand having Manning was like having a Michael Jordan on your team but Dungy still had a great career coaching wise. 

I think Dungy was one of the top three coaches of his generation.  I’d agree he’s not Lombardi, Knoll, Shula etc.  So not an all time great like Polian or Manning but still great.  In players terms he’s like Reggie Wayne or Robert Mathis or Dwight Freeney one of the best to do it in his era but not in the discussion in terms of one of the best to ever do it.

[Zoltan]

25 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think he has to be considered great (he also is the Hall of Fame) but there are even different levels of great  . Was he Vince Lombardi, Chuck Knoll, Don Shula, Tom Landry, Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs, or BB great - I would say no. Having said that he did almost take a Bucs team to the SB in 1999 with Shaun King playing QB lol, they barely lost to the explosive Rams in the NFC Title Game. Dungy built that great D in Tampa. His record here from 2002-2008 was 82-30 in 7 seasons + a SB win. I understand having Manning was like having a Michael Jordan on your team but Dungy still had a great career coaching wise. 

I mean don't get me wrong, I think Dungy is a great human being but to me having an all time QB and getting to only one Super Bowl is underperforming. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

9 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

I mean don't get me wrong, I think Dungy is a great human being but to me having an all time QB and getting to only one Super Bowl is underperforming. 

I can't argue the part underperformed that much but he was still great. That is like me saying Dan Marino underperformed because he never won a SB, perhaps he did going by that aspect but he was still great. Eventhough Peyton got his 2nd ring on a different team I was still happy for him, your legacy is definitely looked at differently when one has won multiple SB's, especially a QB or coach. Some could say Brees and Rodgers have underperformed going by the aspect of SB wins. They have each only won 1.

[Blueblood23]

10 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think Polian, Manning and Dungy were all great.  It wasn’t a one man show.  If it was why didn’t Andrew Luck have the same success?  It wasn’t lack of talent on Andrew’s part.  

I don’t think Luck was as good as Manning. Maybe he would have gotten there had he not retired. At each ones best Peyton was better in his thirties than Luck was before he retired. Luck was a slow starter and played with his pants on fire in the second half’s. Team always started the season with 2 losses and that was not Lucks fault. Made it mostly impossible to get home field advantage.

[chad72]

I wish Ballard would have the success rate Polian had with drafting pass rushers . Knowing we need a position for drafting is one thing but having a high hit rate on first round picks is another. Granted, half of them were offensive skill position guys that worked great for a stable system led by Peyton and Tom Moore but still, getting a player that was the right fit like Wayne, Castanzo in the first round translated to beyond the Polian era, IMO. Plus, the defensive players like Freeney, Rob Morris and Marlin Jackson all played key roles in the only SB this franchise got.

[throwing BBZ]

34 minutes ago, chad72 said:

I wish Ballard would have the success rate Polian had with drafting pass rushers . Knowing we need a position for drafting is one thing but having a high hit rate on first round picks is another. Granted, half of them were offensive skill position guys that worked great for a stable system led by Peyton and Tom Moore but still, getting a player that was the right fit like Wayne, Castanzo in the first round translated to beyond the Polian era, IMO. Plus, the defensive players like Freeney, Rob Morris and Marlin Jackson all played key roles in the only SB this franchise got.

 

 And remember how Rob Morris was a clear disaster in the middle but with his years of experience and toughness they surprisingly found a role as a strong side linebacker.
 At that, pretyy much all he was good at was holding up tackles and tight ends, pretty much stringing out any plays to his side. That meant so much with people endlessly trampling over Mathis in the run game.
 Morris was a Big Deal for the D once they experimented with him playing that position and he was so stout.
 That is an example of developing players, in the hopes they can be the next man up to fill important roles. 

[Nickster]

On 6/12/2021 at 1:07 PM, Blueblood23 said:

How many Super Bowls did Buffalo win? 

So he would have been a better GM if Norwood Would have made the FG?

 

see how ridiculous that logic is?

[Nickster]

14 hours ago, Blueblood23 said:

I was speaking of his stay exclusively with the Colts. I don’t believe the Colts would have done much without Manning. I may be ignorant, but that’s my opinion. I don’t feel he gave the Colts the players necessary on defense to win more Super Bowls. He did draft some great players too.  He missed out on a lot of draft picks. They all miss picks, but feel Bill missed more than his share. Just a disappointed fan expecting to win more championships than one considering how close they were. I feel Polian held them back.

Either that or Manning didn’t step up in AFC championship games.

[Blueblood23]

52 minutes ago, Nickster said:

So he would have been a better GM if Norwood Would have made the FG?

 

see how ridiculous that logic is?

Most all games come down to 3 or 4 plays which defines winning from losing. That’s why most all say it’s tough to win in the NFL. Hank Baskett probably cost the Colts a super bowl win. That was the defining play in that game as it changed everything.

[Zoltan]

17 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I can't argue the part underperformed that much but he was still great. That is like me saying Dan Marino underperformed because he never won a SB, perhaps he did going by that aspect but he was still great. Eventhough Peyton got his 2nd ring on a different team I was still happy for him, your legacy is definitely looked at differently when one has won multiple SB's, especially a QB or coach. Some could say Brees and Rodgers have underperformed going by the aspect of SB wins. They have each only won 1.

I understand your argument although I don't believe comparing a QB and a coach works well, because the head coach has overall control of the offense, defense and in-game decisions while the QB can only affect the offense. So I can understand a great QB not winning a super bowl because it's a whole team effort and you can argue that having a great QB can make a coach look better than they actually are (not referencing Dungy in this, he is a proven team-builder with his time with tampa). I do think that Dungy was not good at his in-game decision making, often being to conservative, but I know I am in the minority on this mindset.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 hours ago, Zoltan said:

I understand your argument although I don't believe comparing a QB and a coach works well, because the head coach has overall control of the offense, defense and in-game decisions while the QB can only affect the offense. So I can understand a great QB not winning a super bowl because it's a whole team effort and you can argue that having a great QB can make a coach look better than they actually are (not referencing Dungy in this, he is a proven team-builder with his time with tampa). I do think that Dungy was not good at his in-game decision making, often being to conservative, but I know I am in the minority on this mindset.

I think in that era both Dungy and Caldwell were too conservative at times. There were a lot of times where we punted on 4th and 1 or 4th and 2. With the offense we had I would've gambled more. Frank would've loved coaching that offense and would've went for it a ton lol. Dungy and Caldwell never seemed to care about going undefeated either which was a shame because we had a couple shots at it. It was Polian's call in 2009 to pull the starters though, having said that Caldwell went with it.

[John Hammonds]

Thank you for posting something new that got a little conversation going.  Since the draft, and the subsequent addition of Eric Fisher, there haven't been that many new posts.  And people have just been beating the existing posts to death.

Nice to see a new topic to chat about.

[MPStack]

On 6/13/2021 at 10:06 PM, Zoltan said:

 

I know it's not a popular opinion but I consider Dungy good not great, 1 Super Bowl appearance/win with Manning was underperforming.

I liked Dungy, but he is overrated. 
 

https://thegruelingtruth.com/football/5overrated-coachesnfl-history/

[Nickster]

On 6/13/2021 at 10:46 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I can't argue the part underperformed that much but he was still great. That is like me saying Dan Marino underperformed because he never won a SB, perhaps he did going by that aspect but he was still great. Eventhough Peyton got his 2nd ring on a different team I was still happy for him, your legacy is definitely looked at differently when one has won multiple SB's, especially a QB or coach. Some could say Brees and Rodgers have underperformed going by the aspect of SB wins. They have each only won 1.

It’s nothing like saying Marino underperformed because he didn’t win a SB at all.  Most people think DM had mediocre talent therefore no SB.

 

The argument about Dungy is he had more talent than the results.

 

this is the polar opposite argument bestie.  Isn’t it?

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, MPStack said:

I liked Dungy, but he is overrated. 
 

https://thegruelingtruth.com/football/5overrated-coachesnfl-history/

Who cares about what the “Grueling Truth” says?

 

Since when are they an authority on anything? 
 

[MPStack]

13 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Who cares about what the “Grueling Truth” says?

 

Since when are they an authority on anything? 
 

Just a small and reasonable breakdown of Dungy’s career as coach. Made the HOF in his first year of eligibility and it took Tom Flores 26 years to make it after retiring. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/587572-jeff-fisher-redux-the-26-most-overrated-coaches-in-nfl-history.amp.html

And another! 

 

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

5 minutes ago, MPStack said:

Just a small and reasonable breakdown of Dungy’s career as coach. Made the HOF in his first year of eligibility and it took Tom Flores 26 years to make it after retiring. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/587572-jeff-fisher-redux-the-26-most-overrated-coaches-in-nfl-history.amp.html

And another! 

 

 

 

The Tom Flores situation is 100% fair.  A really good point by you.  He’s been totally screwed for years.   No argument. 
 

But that doesn’t mean Dungy is over-rated. 

[Dingus McGirt]

On 6/14/2021 at 10:55 AM, Blueblood23 said:

Most all games come down to 3 or 4 plays which defines winning from losing. That’s why most all say it’s tough to win in the NFL. Hank Baskett probably cost the Colts a super bowl win. That was the defining play in that game as it changed everything.

Not 'probably' IMO.  More like definitely.  But, I get your point.

 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

18 minutes ago, MPStack said:

Just a small and reasonable breakdown of Dungy’s career as coach. Made the HOF in his first year of eligibility and it took Tom Flores 26 years to make it after retiring. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/587572-jeff-fisher-redux-the-26-most-overrated-coaches-in-nfl-history.amp.html

And another! 

 

 

 

 

And a nice gig on Sunday Night Football too......

[LJpalmbeacher2]

On 6/14/2021 at 10:06 AM, Nickster said:

Either that or Manning didn’t step up in AFC championship games.

 

Too many one and dones too. 

[MPStack]

5 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

Too many one and dones too. 

[Nickster]

23 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think in that era both Dungy and Caldwell were too conservative at times. There were a lot of times where we punted on 4th and 1 or 4th and 2. With the offense we had I would've gambled more. Frank would've loved coaching that offense and would've went for it a ton lol. Dungy and Caldwell never seemed to care about going undefeated either which was a shame because we had a couple shots at it. It was Polian's call in 2009 to pull the starters though, having said that Caldwell went with it.

I’m sorry to keep opposing what you are saying bestie but Frank’s offense is NOTHING like the downfield tempo attack of the Colts.  Nothing at all like it.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, Nickster said:

I’m sorry to keep opposing what you are saying bestie but Frank’s offense is NOTHING like the downfield tempo attack of the Colts.  Nothing at all like it.  

Not really my point, I know it isn't but if he had that offense he would have many more weapons and definitely could open things up more. Also he would rarely punt on 4th and short if ever if we had the ball at midfield or better, he goes for it a lot now.