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Bill Pollan didn't reach his first SB until after he was GM for 7 years.


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My main point in bringing this up, is simply that something special can take time to develop. 

 

I think both Chris Ballard, and Frank Reich are showing enough promise that you give them the time to develop. 

 

Bill Belichick didn't win his first SB until after 10 years of being the Browns HC. 

 

Yes, it's another praising Ballard thread. 

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Maybe my NFL history knowledge is off here but didn’t Polian also go to 4SBs prior to winning one? 
 

Regards BB, it would be an interesting thought experiment to see could

he have had the same success outside of NE, but I do think he’s one of the best football minds ever. His Dad’s scouting manual is an interesting read.

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12 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

My main point in bringing this up, is simply that something special can take time to develop. 

 

I think both Chris Ballard, and Frank Reich are showing enough promise that you give them the time to develop. 

 

Bill Belichick didn't win his first SB until after 10 years of being the Browns HC. 

 

Yes, it's another praising Ballard thread. 

 

 But, but, i'm old (I Am) so older fans are n a hurry up and win now mode.
 Ballard is doing his best to develop a great core than can be near the top
 for years. Like the Pats, Steelers franchises have been, and KC now.
  If it was easy, Everybody would be doing it. I think seeing the basis, the progress, IS Easy to see. 
Starting to knock on the door this year Would be nice!!

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2 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

Maybe my NFL history knowledge is off here but didn’t Polian also go to 4SBs prior to winning one? 
 

Regards BB, it would be an interesting thought experiment to see could

he have had the same success outside of NE, but I do think he’s one of the best football minds ever. His Dad’s scouting manual is an interesting read.

BB is arguably the greatest Coach ever, having said that IMO he doesn't have 6 SB wins without Tom Brady. No way no how. As much as everyone likes to pick on Tom in here I feel pretty good in saying BB wouldn't. Tom wouldn't have 6 without BB either but Tom proved last season he could win with another team and coach lol. If you put Tom on KC, Buffalo, Tennessee, or even the Browns I would favor them to win the SB. If we had Tom I would feel good about saying that too. It wouldn't shock me at all if the Bucs Repeat.

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14 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

My main point in bringing this up, is simply that something special can take time to develop. 

 

I think both Chris Ballard, and Frank Reich are showing enough promise that you give them the time to develop. 

 

Bill Belichick didn't win his first SB until after 10 years of being the Browns HC. 

 

Yes, it's another praising Ballard thread. 

Bill Pollian was bailed out by Manning. Without Peyton, he would be just another guy.

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36 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

Bill Pollian was bailed out by Manning. Without Peyton, he would be just another guy.

Hilarious.    He built the 90s Bills long before coming here

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7 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

How many Super Bowls did Buffalo win? 


Better question: How many Hall of Famers has Bill Polian drafted?

 

The answer is probably the reason Polian himself is in the Hall of Fame.

 

He was also a 6-time Executive of the Year, receiving the award 4 times pre-Manning.

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1 hour ago, Blueblood23 said:

Bill Pollian was bailed out by Manning. Without Peyton, he would be just another guy.

Dear God…..

 

Polian was a Hall of Fame GM before he e we drafted Peyton Manning.   Buffalo?   Carolina?

 

Hello? 

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1 hour ago, Blueblood23 said:

Bill Pollian was bailed out by Manning. Without Peyton, he would be just another guy.

The Buffalo Bills who reached three (and made a fourth with his team) Super Bowls under Polian and the Panthers who reached the NFCCG in their second year of existence say other wise.  
 

Also Polian is the one who drafted Peyton and despite what revisionist history and 20/20 hindsight say it wasn’t a no brainer.  Also someone had to go get all those great players Peyton played with.  
 

The Colts had the perfect storm with a Hall of Fame GM, Head Coach, and QB.  Not one of them could do it by himself and they ALL helped each other.  That’s why that was the golden era of Colts football.  Anyone who says that one carried the other two just doesn’t want to give the other two credit.  

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25 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

How many Super Bowls did Buffalo win? 

Losing Super Bowls falls on players and coaches not GMs.  If you have the talent to get there you have the talent to win it.  The fact the Bills are still the only team to go to four straight Super Bowls shows how loaded those teams were with talent which is the GM’s job.  You clearly just don’t want to give Polian credit which is your choice but not many are going to agree with you.  

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For the record….   The Bills are the only team to go to 4 straight Super Bowls. 
 

And only two other teams have to three straight.   Miami, 72-74….   NE from 16-18. 
 

That’s it.  
 

Otherwise, a bunch of teams have been to two in a row….  Pittsburgh, NE, Dallas, San Fran.  Seattle.   Min. 
 

Here are some of the great teams that didn’t go to consecutive SB’s….   Chicago…. NY Giants.   Baltimore.   Oakland. 
 

 

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1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

The Buffalo Bills who reached three (and made a fourth with his team) Super Bowls under Polian and the Panthers who reached the NFCCG in their second year of existence say other wise.  
 

Also Polian is the one who drafted Peyton and despite what revisionist history and 20/20 hindsight say it wasn’t a no brainer.  Also someone had to go get all those great players Peyton played with.  
 

The Colts had the perfect storm with a Hall of Fame GM, Head Coach, and QB.  Not one of them could do it by himself and they ALL helped each other.  That’s why that was the golden era of Colts football.  Anyone who says that one carried the other two just doesn’t want to give the other two credit.  

I agree he could have drafted Ryan Leaf instead. He did great finding players to help during the season when injuries occurred. Never impressed with his free agents signings of Tyrone Poole and Chad Bratzke. Didn’t like it at the time, so no hindsight. Disappointed with his draft picks for the most part. Without Manning the Colts were what 2-14? That doesn’t say much for the roster, as Polian was there long enough to not have it be that bad. Manning covered up a lot for the Colts for his time here.

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The idea that a team built by Polian could go to 4 straight SB's, which is an all time NFL record, ....and have that result in the question of Polian's validity, is hilarious in the extreme. 

 

It is jaw dropping, gut laughing, pants pooping funny.  

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2 hours ago, Blueblood23 said:

I agree he could have drafted Ryan Leaf instead. He did great finding players to help during the season when injuries occurred. Never impressed with his free agents signings of Tyrone Poole and Chad Bratzke. Didn’t like it at the time, so no hindsight. Disappointed with his draft picks for the most part. Without Manning the Colts were what 2-14? That doesn’t say much for the roster, as Polian was there long enough to not have it be that bad. Manning covered up a lot for the Colts for his time here.

Do you think Edge, Jeff Saturday, Bob Sanders, Dallas Clark, Robert Mathis, Dwight Freeney, Pat McAfee, and Reggie Wayne were good players?

 

That’s also not including guys like Diem, Rhodes, Addai, Hayden, Jackson, Bethea, and several more who all had very good careers.  
 

Also funny that you left out a Adam, Stokely, and trading for Booger which was a big reason they won their super bowl.  It’s almost like you are only trying to look at the negatives.  Also Bratzke wasn’t a bad player.  Whole not Freeney or Mathis he was solid to even good, especially right after the Colts got him.  At the end of his time here which also turned out to be the end of his career his numbers dropped off like they do for most aging players.  
 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BratCh20.htm

 

If so then he put great talent around Peyton Manning.  Without question Peyton was a great talent in his own right and losing a player like that is going to kill your team.  Let’s also not pretend the Colts teams there were the most loaded team they had.  They had just gone 10-6 the year before.  It’s possible they could have been about a .500 team with Peyton team that year.  
 

Yes Bill Polian shares in the blame for the talent fall off which is why he lost his job after that season.  It doesn’t undo everything he did from 98 to that point or what he did before he got to the Colts.  
 

I’d suggest you take the advice someone else gave you in this thread and stop digging because we all get it you don’t want to give Polian any credit.  Fine.  You are in the minority with that opinion.

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4 hours ago, Blueblood23 said:

I agree he could have drafted Ryan Leaf instead. He did great finding players to help during the season when injuries occurred. Never impressed with his free agents signings of Tyrone Poole and Chad Bratzke. Didn’t like it at the time, so no hindsight. Disappointed with his draft picks for the most part. Without Manning the Colts were what 2-14? That doesn’t say much for the roster, as Polian was there long enough to not have it be that bad. Manning covered up a lot for the Colts for his time here.


I am big Polian fan. His approach to the offense was ahead of its time. And I think he drafted some amazing talent.
 

However, I do think he could have done more with FA to maximize those windows. 
 

Also, Polian from 2007-on is a different discussion. That GM didn’t have it…and neither did his son, which is why the end result of that team was 2-14.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Myles said:

I give Polian credit for drafting Manning instead of Leaf and James instead of Ricky Williams.

But not for Jim Kelly, Bruce Smith, Thurman Thomas, Andre Reed, Reggie Wayne, Dwight Freeney, or Robert Mathis who all had Hall of Fame worthy careers in addition to Manning and Edge?

 

Thats not including guys like Saturday, Bethea, Clark, or Sanders that any team in the league would have taken in their prime.  
 

Polian did a lot more in his career than hit on two draft picks.  

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Let’s also be honest that a reason why it took 8 years was reason #18. He was fantastic in their (3) playoff wins against DEN and KC x2…decent in that upset loss to PIT…but really bad in (5) losses to TEN, MIA, NYJ and of course NE x2.

 

Even during that time 2006 run, that was mostly the run game and defense.

 

But once Manning got well into his prime (30+), he became a much more consistent playoff QB.

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10 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

But not for Jim Kelly, Bruce Smith, Thurman Thomas, Andre Reed, Reggie Wayne, Dwight Freeney, or Robert Mathis who all had Hall of Fame worthy careers in addition to Manning and Edge?

 

Thats not including guys like Saturday, Bethea, Clark, or Sanders that any team in the league would have taken in their prime.  
 

Polian did a lot more in his career than hit on two draft picks.  

I don't think I said I ONLY give him credit for manning and James.  

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23 hours ago, Blueblood23 said:

Bill Pollian was bailed out by Manning. Without Peyton, he would be just another guy.

Won a Grey Cup in the CFL as a GM

 

Built a Bills team that went to 4 consecutive Super Bowls

 

Built the expansion Panthers into the NFC Championship game in year 2

 

In consecutive drafts chose between Manning vs Leaf and then James vs Williams - making the best decision both times.

Built a team that won the most games in the decade between 2000 and 2010

Yeah, the Colts only went to 2 Superbowls but woulda been more except for those pesky Patriots......

 

God bless your ignorance, but, he was already a great GM before arriving in Indy - he just cemented his legacy with the Colts.

 

Hall of Famers drafted by Polian:

Jim Kelly, Andre Reed, Bruce Smith, and Thurman Thomas.

Peyton Manning, Edgerrin James, and on the cusp Reggie Wayne, Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis

 

Yeah, he's just another guy though......

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6 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

Won a Grey Cup in the CFL as a GM

 

Built a Bills team that went to 4 consecutive Super Bowls

 

Built the expansion Panthers into the NFC Championship game in year 2

 

In consecutive drafts chose between Manning vs Leaf and then James vs Williams - making the best decision both times.

Built a team that won the most games in the decade between 2000 and 2010

Yeah, the Colts only went to 2 Superbowls but woulda been more except for those pesky Patriots......

 

God bless your ignorance, but, he was already a great GM before arriving in Indy - he just cemented his legacy with the Colts.

 

Hall of Famers drafted by Polian:

Jim Kelly, Andre Reed, Bruce Smith, and Thurman Thomas.

Peyton Manning, Edgerrin James, and on the cusp Reggie Wayne, Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis

 

Yeah, he's just another guy though......

I was speaking of his stay exclusively with the Colts. I don’t believe the Colts would have done much without Manning. I may be ignorant, but that’s my opinion. I don’t feel he gave the Colts the players necessary on defense to win more Super Bowls. He did draft some great players too.  He missed out on a lot of draft picks. They all miss picks, but feel Bill missed more than his share. Just a disappointed fan expecting to win more championships than one considering how close they were. I feel Polian held them back.

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30 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

I was speaking of his stay exclusively with the Colts. I don’t believe the Colts would have done much without Manning. I may be ignorant, but that’s my opinion. I don’t feel he gave the Colts the players necessary on defense to win more Super Bowls. He did draft some great players too.  He missed out on a lot of draft picks. They all miss picks, but feel Bill missed more than his share. Just a disappointed fan expecting to win more championships than one considering how close they were. I feel Polian held them back.

 

Polian did great for a long time but lost his edge after the 2007 season. But that doesn't take away from a HOF career. He was special just couldn't finish most years. I agree he failed on defense for the most part and didn't understand the pros of having a balanced team. Manning could make almost anyone special and Polian just couldn't see the benefits of focusing mostly on defense having an all time great at the helm (just look at the Colts oline that Peyton made look good). 

 

Also letting David Thornton walk in FA was a mistake. 

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20 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

I was speaking of his stay exclusively with the Colts. I don’t believe the Colts would have done much without Manning. I may be ignorant, but that’s my opinion. I don’t feel he gave the Colts the players necessary on defense to win more Super Bowls. He did draft some great players too.  He missed out on a lot of draft picks. They all miss picks, but feel Bill missed more than his share. Just a disappointed fan expecting to win more championships than one considering how close they were. I feel Polian held them back.

Well you would be wrong.  Also if they hadn’t had Peyton that would have drastically altered how the Colts were built under Polian so you are asking people to play a major what if game that really can’t be done because there is no telling what the Colts do without Peyton.  The samething could be said if they didn’t have Dungy or Polian either.  What if Ryan Grigson had been the GM with Peyton do you think Peyton and the Colts are as good?  Before you say yes look at what Ryan Grigson did to Andrew Luck’s career by failing to put good players around him.  
 

Polian drafted no less than probably five Hall of Famers here with Peyton, Edge, Wayne, Freeney, and Mathis.  He also drafted guys like Sanders, Bethea, McAfee, and Clark who were some of the best at their positions for their era.  He also drafted guys like Washington, June, Peterson, Hayden, Jackson, Scott, DeMulling, and Diem who were solid starters for the Colts while they were here.  He also found guys like Saturday, Rhodes, and, Harper who played major roles as undrafted free agents.  Let’s not forget he also got Jerry Hughes who is often overlooked here because Ryan Grigson traded him for a bag of peanuts. 
 

Anyway you slice it he did his job in terms of putting talent around Peyton which is a large part of the reason the Colts had the success they did with Peyton.  You want to see a GM who failed at that job with an elite QB look at what happened with Andrew Luck under Ryan Grigson.  Polian’s Colts went 8 straight years winning at least 12 games.  Grigson’s Colts never won more than 11.  Both had elite QBs, what was the difference between one being able to get over the hump and the other not?  My guess is the talent and coaches around the elite QB.  Who gets that?  The GM.

 

Add in what he did in Buffalo and Carolina and it’s hard to argue that Polian wasn’t a major factor in that.  
 

Was he perfect?  No there was a clear a fall off at the end which is what lead to him getting fired.  However that doesn’t undo everything he did to that point.  Other than for a very special few like Tony Dungy there is a fall off at the end in the NFL that’s how it works and for the few like Dungy it’s normally because they walk away before there is a chance for the fall off.  Even Father Time caught Peyton, while he won a Super Bowl in his last season he was a shell of his former self.  

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35 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

I was speaking of his stay exclusively with the Colts. I don’t believe the Colts would have done much without Manning. I may be ignorant, but that’s my opinion. I don’t feel he gave the Colts the players necessary on defense to win more Super Bowls. He did draft some great players too.  He missed out on a lot of draft picks. They all miss picks, but feel Bill missed more than his share. Just a disappointed fan expecting to win more championships than one considering how close they were. I feel Polian held them back.

Polian is why you expected them to win more championships.   The team had excellent talent.    Unfortunately the Patriots had BB and Brady.   It wasn't a lack of talent on indys part.   It was a perfect storm in New England 

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I guess for me, I started being a Colts fan in 1998, and only paid attention to football starting around that time. To me, as a Colts fan, it doesn't matter what he did as a Bills or Panther GM. That may make him a HOF GM in the overall picture of things, but as the Colts GM, he didn't do enough to help Peyton and the results were underwhelming for a QB of Peyton's calibur in his time with the Colts. 

 

Just look at what he did with the Colts and Broncos and compare them. In 14 years, Peyton made 2 SBs with the Colts and won one. With the Broncos in 4 years with a better team around him, Peyton did the same thing. He made 2 SBs and won one. Imagine what he could of done with a better team around him. We can't use the NE excuse either, because he still had to beat them to get to the SB in Denver, and Brady hadn't declined at all, and NE was still a SB contending team around that time. 

 

Besides an outlier year of 2002, the only years the defense were really a top ten unit for Peyton were 2007-2009. So it was very tough in the playoffs to advance to the SB. I don't think Polian is a scrub GM, but I think he managed to do very little to help Peyton reach his full potential on the Colts, and if he would of stayed on the Colts til around 2015 and retired a Colt, Peyton wouldn't of made another SB or won another one like he did by going to the Broncos.

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49 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Well you would be wrong.  Also if they hadn’t had Peyton that would have drastically altered how the Colts were built under Polian so you are asking people to play a major what if game that really can’t be done because there is no telling what the Colts do without Peyton.  The samething could be said if they didn’t have Dungy or Polian either.  What if Ryan Grigson had been the GM with Peyton do you think Peyton and the Colts are as good?  Before you say yes look at what Ryan Grigson did to Andrew Luck’s career by failing to put good players around him.  
 

Polian drafted no less than probably five Hall of Famers here with Peyton, Edge, Wayne, Freeney, and Mathis.  He also drafted guys like Sanders, Bethea, McAfee, and Clark who were some of the best at their positions for their era.  He also drafted guys like Washington, June, Peterson, Hayden, Jackson, Scott, DeMulling, and Diem who were solid starters for the Colts while they were here.  He also found guys like Saturday, Rhodes, and, Harper who played major roles as undrafted free agents.  Let’s not forget he also got Jerry Hughes who is often overlooked here because Ryan Grigson traded him for a bag of peanuts. 
 

Anyway you slice it he did his job in terms of putting talent around Peyton which is a large part of the reason the Colts had the success they did with Peyton.  You want to see a GM who failed at that job with an elite QB look at what happened with Andrew Luck under Ryan Grigson.  Polian’s Colts went 8 straight years winning at least 12 games.  Grigson’s Colts never won more than 11.  Both had elite QBs, what was the difference between one being able to get over the hump and the other not?  My guess is the talent and coaches around the elite QB.  Who gets that?  The GM.

 

Add in what he did in Buffalo and Carolina and it’s hard to argue that Polian wasn’t a major factor in that.  
 

Was he perfect?  No there was a clear a fall off at the end which is what lead to him getting fired.  However that doesn’t undo everything he did to that point.  Other than for a very special few like Tony Dungy there is a fall off at the end in the NFL that’s how it works and for the few like Dungy it’s normally because they walk away before there is a chance for the fall off.  Even Father Time caught Peyton, while he won a Super Bowl in his last season he was a shell of his former self.  

Ok I get it, you think Polian was great and to me not all that. Peyton Manning all the way!

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6 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

Ok I get it, you think Polian was great and to me not all that. Peyton Manning all the way!

I think Polian, Manning and Dungy were all great.  It wasn’t a one man show.  If it was why didn’t Andrew Luck have the same success?  It wasn’t lack of talent on Andrew’s part.  

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14 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think Polian, Manning and Dungy were all great.  It wasn’t a one man show.  If it was why didn’t Andrew Luck have the same success?  It wasn’t lack of talent on Andrew’s part.  

 

Who was it from the Colts that said you need a great HC, GM and QB to make consistent runs at SBs?  

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41 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think Polian, Manning and Dungy were all great.  It wasn’t a one man show.  If it was why didn’t Andrew Luck have the same success?  It wasn’t lack of talent on Andrew’s part.  

 

I know it's not a popular opinion but I consider Dungy good not great, 1 Super Bowl appearance/win with Manning was underperforming.

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23 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

 

I know it's not a popular opinion but I consider Dungy good not great, 1 Super Bowl appearance/win with Manning was underperforming.

That Super Bowl win is one more than any Colts coach not named Tony Dungy had while coaching Peyton Manning and frankly is one more than any Indianapolis Colts coach had.  Also like Polian, Dungy had a track record of success before he ever got to the Colts.  
 

I know people don’t like to admit this but before Dungy came in the Colts were regressing.  They went from 13-3 to 10-6 and 6-10 and had failed to even win a playoff game with Peyton Manning to that point.  Dungy came in installed his simpler defense and was smart enough to not change the offense other than teach Peyton a punt wasn’t the worst thing that could happen (something Peyton himself has credited Dungy with as the hardest yet most important thing he learned in his career and helped Peyton take the next step to become one of the all time greats).  
 

Like I said before the Colts hit the very rare combo of having a Hall of Fame GM, Head coach, and QB and the result was the golden era of Colts football.  No it didn’t end in as many Super Bowls as fans wanted but winning Super Bowls is hard just ask Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Bress, or Russell Wilson who all only have one Super Bowl ring and in the case of Brees or Rodgers who only got once chance or even a guy like Marino who only went to one Super Bowl despite being paired with the Head Coach whose won more games than anyone.  

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