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Fisher Signing 1 Year Deal


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34 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

It makes sense now why we signed him with the Achilles. They want to keep him for a couple more years. I just don’t see how they make this work. You are going to have to let several players go that we all love if they signed Fisher. You can’t hurt the rest of the team like that.

 

He has plenty of quality years left in him too, if he can recover from the achilles. Only turned 30 this year. Sounded like a good optimistic guy in his media interviews today. Excited to see him in blue later.

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40 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

It makes sense now why we signed him with the Achilles. They want to keep him for a couple more years. I just don’t see how they make this work. You are going to have to let several players go that we all love if they signed Fisher. You can’t hurt the rest of the team like that.

I have always thought the plan and the hope was that he recovers and we sign him to a long term deal.   He is only 30 years old.  Makes perfect sense to me.  Ballard will find a way to make it work.  Right now he wants him to get back to his old self.  He’s just praying that happens.  My advice is don’t fall in love with any player.  They are the means to an end.  There is no guarantee they will always be with us.  The players and the teams know the environment they are playing under.  That’s just the way it is.

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17 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I have always thought the plan and the hope was that he recovers and we sign him to a long term deal.   He is only 30 years old.  Makes perfect sense to me.  Ballard will find a way to make it work.  Right now he wants him to get back to his old self.  He’s just praying that happens.  My advice is don’t fall in love with any player.  They are the means to an end.  There is no guarantee they will always be with us.  The players and the teams know the environment they are playing under.  That’s just the way it is.


Spot on.

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53 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

To spread his cap holder is reporting fishers deal is actually 2 years that voids early in 22.

 

Very interesting. I've never heard of a team option in the NFL outside of the rookie contracts

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8 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Very interesting. I've never heard of a team option in the NFL outside of the rookie contracts

It’s kind of like what TB did with brady. They signed him to a four year extension to make his cap hit smaller. I don’t think Brady will play four more years. SF kind of did it with Trent Williams too. At 33 is he really going to play 6 more years.  Maybe signing fisher to some ridiculously long deal will voidable years make his cap number smaller if we bring him back after this season.  NO Does this a lot. But it eventually all comes due if you do it for to many players.

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17 hours ago, Nevbot said:

While I love your blind optimism for this exact scenario to unfold, I don’t think Tevi would warrant a 5th in any scenario or even a player of value. He’s a one dimensional journeyman tackle who’s biggest asset is game experience. SD tossed him to the curb for a reason I imagine.

 

Man, you really reached deep to paint a hypothetical scenario but  in all honesty Grover Stewart is a baller. He isn’t going anywhere for a while 

Grover Stewart vs Bilal Nichols a younger version of Stewart and playing much better and will be a FA next year.  Look up Nichols for yourself think you will find him a worthy option to play next to Buckner and the Bears might have an issue signing him.  Nichols is going to get paid over $8 million.  Next look at Stewart's contract and the Colts could actually gain money back by cutting him lose and using that same money as a wash if you will by locking down Nichols.  Colts wanted to build a DL that can dominate and with Paye, Buckner, and Nichols over Stewart we would have a built a solid foundation for many years.  Going back to Tevi and Fisher at LT I really can see Tevi becoming mid-season trade bait.  Last year the Ravens traded Chris Wormley to the Steelers and got a 5th Round pick which later the pick got traded to the Vikings but still not unrealistic for the Colts to trade Tevi since they will either have Davenport or Holden as backup.

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The Achilles injury could turn out being a blessing in disguise. If Fisher doesn't tear his ACL he either could've returned to KC or someone would've paid him a lot more money to play elsewhere. If he comes back healthy and produces, getting him at 9.4 million would be a steal in 2021. If he didn't get injured he could've gotten around $15 million a year from someone. Castonzo was making roughly $16 million a year before he retired.

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16 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

It makes sense now why we signed him with the Achilles. They want to keep him for a couple more years. I just don’t see how they make this work. You are going to have to let several players go that we all love if they signed Fisher. You can’t hurt the rest of the team like that.

I don't know that he will command Top 10 money by then.  And Ryan Kelly's compensation actually goes down each year going forward, it was a very front loaded contract by Ballard standards, if I read it correctly.  So the overall compensation given to the line will be top dollar when Nelson and Smith are extended, but I don't think that it will be outrageous.  

 

But we will almost have to fund the RG position with a young player under a rookie contract, IMO.  Might find a replacement for Kelly at some point if he's dinged a lot or becomes too expensive.

 

If our pricey Olineman are both OTs and the LG, I think we'll be fine.  Might be able to afford a luxury at C if we're not paying WRs top dollar.  I think that's how the cap structure might work under a Reich O.

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New Colts LT Eric Fisher isn't putting timeline on his return from torn Achilles tendon

 

“What I can tell you is I’m a big ‘control what you can control’ kind of guy,” Fisher said. “Obviously, I’d like to snap my fingers and have a perfect Achilles again, but you know, that’s not the case. Obviously, the club feels good with where I’m at, I’m feeling good, but any other questions about my Achilles, I’ll leave up to Chris Ballard or Coach (Frank Reich).”

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/colts-lt-eric-fisher-isnt-173044531.html

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I think it's pretty clear that a big o-lineman is going to take a while to come back from an Achilles.  That said, next season (2022) he should be at a much closer to original explosiveness level (if all goes well rehab-wise, in other words, no set-backs).  I wouldn't put too much stock in anything but a mid to late November return (or later).

 

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Regarding how years, Fisher has left as a quality starter, I'd say not many, unless he's an exception. I agree with the article quoted below. Anthony Costonzo, done at 32, is more the rule than the exception. 

Quote

 

Conclusion

There are instances of offensive tackles continuing to play at a high level in their mid 30s, but they are few and far between. Most elite offensive tackles start to decline at roughly the age of 32 if they haven’t already.

 

 

https://www.milehighreport.com/2017/2/27/14724674/age-wall-for-offensive-tackles-nfl

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5 minutes ago, BeanDiasucci said:

Regarding how years, Fisher has left as a quality starter, I'd say not many, unless he's an exception. I agree with the article quoted below. Anthony Costonzo, done at 32, is more the rule than the exception. 

https://www.milehighreport.com/2017/2/27/14724674/age-wall-for-offensive-tackles-nfl

Well....    this is 4-years old.   Lots of new information, including Trent Williams signing a new 6-year deal this off-season at age 32.  Fisher is 2-years younger.  
 

Ballard and his team are aware of the proper age numbers. 

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An article on the athletic describes why the colts consider Dayo and fisher lower risks.  There are new rehab techniques that bring players back much faster from Achilles injuries than in the past.  The key is how far along they are at the 3 mo window.  Apparently both met that standard.  
 

it’s a pay site but that is the jist 

 

https://theathletic.com/2600367/2021/05/20/colts-confident-about-
 

 

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1 hour ago, Fluke_33 said:

An article on the athletic describes why the colts consider Dayo and fisher lower risks.  There are new rehab techniques that bring players back much faster from Achilles injuries than in the past.  The key is how far along they are at the 3 mo window.  Apparently both met that standard.  
 

it’s a pay site but that is the jist 

 

https://theathletic.com/2600367/2021/05/20/colts-confident-about-
 

 

That makes sense. Mack is at 8 months and looks like he is full go at camp. That’s good news for Fisher and Dayo.

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2 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

That makes sense. Mack is at 8 months and looks like he is full go at camp. That’s good news for Fisher and Dayo.

 

Why, there's no link between the 2 (or 3 technically). That's a very false conclusion to draw.

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3 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Why, there's no link between the 2 (or 3 technically). That's a very false conclusion to draw.

Huh. I was just talking recovery time. If Mack is back looking good at 8 months Fisher may be ready to at least practice by August. What’s false about that?

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5 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

Huh. I was just talking recovery time. If Mack is back looking good at 8 months Fisher may be ready to at least practice by August. What’s false about that?

Because they are two mutually exclusive things. Player X's injury/treatment/rehab curve will be very different to Player Y's. Do you know for example that they were injured to the same extent, received exactly the same treatment and have the same rehab programme. Even then it would be very unlikely to have the same timescale for recovery. There's also a disparity in the recovery rates by position. 

 

That's before you even get into the most overlooked part of rehab in the mental and psychological aspects.  

 

So, yes it's a false conclusion to draw that their recovery will be in time because Mack's has recovered within a certain timeframe. 

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1 hour ago, SteelCityColt said:

Because they are two mutually exclusive things. Player X's injury/treatment/rehab curve will be very different to Player Y's. Do you know for example that they were injured to the same extent, received exactly the same treatment and have the same rehab programme. Even then it would be very unlikely to have the same timescale for recovery. There's also a disparity in the recovery rates by position. 

 

That's before you even get into the most overlooked part of rehab in the mental and psychological aspects.  

 

So, yes it's a false conclusion to draw that their recovery will be in time because Mack's has recovered within a certain timeframe. 

I agree with this.  Plus Mack is only 25 years old, so he's going to heal faster.

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24 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

I agree with this.  Plus Mack is only 25 years old, so he's going to heal faster.

No one was saying their recoveries are going to be the exact time frame. That isn’t what I said at all. It’s encouraging though to see it’s possible Fisher could be back by camp. Will he we don’t know but with the techniques that are now used it’s possible. I don’t even know why anyone on this board keeps arguing about time frames for this injury. Yes everyone is different. But with all the new technologies it’s encouraging it could be sooner then later.

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

No one was saying their recoveries are going to be the exact time frame. That isn’t what I said at all. It’s encouraging though to see it’s possible Fisher could be back by camp. Will he we don’t know but with the techniques that are now used it’s possible. I don’t even know why anyone on this board keeps arguing about time frames for this injury. Yes everyone is different. But with all the new technologies it’s encouraging it could be sooner then later.

 

 

 

I totally agree with that and obviously Colt management does also. 

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3 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

Because they are two mutually exclusive things. Player X's injury/treatment/rehab curve will be very different to Player Y's. Do you know for example that they were injured to the same extent, received exactly the same treatment and have the same rehab programme. Even then it would be very unlikely to have the same timescale for recovery. There's also a disparity in the recovery rates by position. 

 

That's before you even get into the most overlooked part of rehab in the mental and psychological aspects.  

 

So, yes it's a false conclusion to draw that their recovery will be in time because Mack's has recovered within a certain timeframe. 

So are you thinking Fish will return early August then?

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Mike Chapell just said on the blue zone podcast Ballard when he had the film session said they are expecting Fisher to return in august.  Also when asked if they can afford Fisher Ballard said it’s a challenge but they can make it work.  Said Fisher wants to play another 3-5 years maybe longer. 

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3 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

Mike Chapell just said on the blue zone podcast Ballard when he had the film session said they are expecting Fisher to return in august.  Also when asked if they can afford Fisher Ballard said it’s a challenge but they can make it work.  Said Fisher wants to play another 3-5 years maybe longer. 

August is purely coachspeak. Or GM speak.

Affording him this year is kinda easy. Next year and beyond is the challenge. Something will have to give next year or and after (in terms of keeping all of our high paid assets) unless the salary cap goes up more than the average in typical years (even if we factor it goes up bigly after the down 2021).

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8 hours ago, EastStreet said:

August is purely coachspeak. Or GM speak.

Affording him this year is kinda easy. Next year and beyond is the challenge. Something will have to give next year or and after (in terms of keeping all of our high paid assets) unless the salary cap goes up more than the average in typical years (even if we factor it goes up bigly after the down 2021).

Well he said it behind closed doors not in the public. I don’t know why everyone is so hell bent on him being out a lot longer. Ballard is the only one who has his medical records and knows where he is at in rehab. There are plenty of articles that state he could be ready to practice by august. I mean Mack is practicing at the 8 month mark.

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18 hours ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

So are you thinking Fish will return early August then?

 

  Why did YOU say early August? He said no such thing.

  I thought he was thinking late August right? With Two full weeks of practice then this older vet should be ready to go.

  But still such a silly hypothetical that noone on earthly existence could possibly accurately project at this time. Blathering on about this now is useless.

 How about we have the wisdom to ask that question again in later July. There will be information then that may be able to project within weeks when he might come back. 
 Let's hope he is ready or really close by the season opener  Sept. 12th and not put on PUP. He could miss 2 games and have nearly 9 months of recovery. 

  

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2 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  Why did YOU say early August? He said no such thing.

  I thought he was thinking late August right? With Two full weeks of practice then this older vet should be ready to go.

  But still such a silly hypothetical that noone on earthly existence could possibly accurately project at this time. Blathering on about this now is useless.

 How about we have the wisdom to ask that question again in later July. There will be information then that may be able to project within weeks when he might come back. 
 Let's hope he is ready or really close by the season opener  Sept. 12th and not put on PUP. He could miss 2 games and have nearly 9 months of recovery. 

  

 

The biggest clues you're likely to get are whether he's on the PUP list come training camp (likely IMO) and whether he then moves to the reserve/PUP list come the start of the season. IIRC that means he'd have to miss at least the first 6 games of the season which wouldn't be a disaster. But as you say there's not a lot that of firm conclusion that can be drawn at this point. 

 

Even the FO/Medical staff (not just Ballard! :hide:) with intimate knowledge of his progress are unlikely to be putting dates on things at this point. Rehab from long term injury is a real rollercoaster sometimes.

 

Absolutely no qualms with the signing because of the injury, I just found the originally reported contract terms puzzling. 

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On 5/21/2021 at 9:24 AM, Wentzszn said:

Well he said it behind closed doors not in the public. I don’t know why everyone is so hell bent on him being out a lot longer. Ballard is the only one who has his medical records and knows where he is at in rehab. There are plenty of articles that state he could be ready to practice by august. I mean Mack is practicing at the 8 month mark.

People aren't hell bent on anything. They are just aware of the basic recovery times associated with the injury.

 

Mack was injured in week one. So it's been almost 9 months. He also is not running drills with the team. He's been working on the side by himself from everything I read. And that's about normal for the rehab process.

 

I'd also add that Mack is 25, 6ft, 210, and the picture of health as most RBs are. Fisher is 30, 6-7, and 315 lbs. Not saying Fisher can't recover quickly, but it's typically easier for younger guys to recover, and going to guess size adds another dimension. 

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3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

People aren't hell bent on anything. They are just aware of the basic recovery times associated with the injury.

 

Mack was injured in week one. So it's been almost 9 months. He also is not running drills with the team. He's been working on the side by himself from everything I read. And that's about normal for the rehab process.

 

I'd also add that Mack is 25, 6ft, 210, and the picture of health as most RBs are. Fisher is 30, 6-7, and 315 lbs. Not saying Fisher can't recover quickly, but it's typically easier for younger guys to recover, and going to guess size adds another dimension. 

 

On 5/21/2021 at 9:24 AM, Wentzszn said:

Well he said it behind closed doors not in the public. I don’t know why everyone is so hell bent on him being out a lot longer. Ballard is the only one who has his medical records and knows where he is at in rehab. There are plenty of articles that state he could be ready to practice by august. I mean Mack is practicing at the 8 month mark.

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On 5/20/2021 at 2:49 PM, dw49 said:

 

I totally agree with that and obviously Colt management does also. 

 

Well, they know whether either (or both) Fisher and Dayo have hit or surpassed their 'milestones' in recovery.

 

32 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

People aren't hell bent on anything. They are just aware of the basic recovery times associated with the injury.

 

Yes, and the somewhat reduced ability for many those returning quickly. OTOH, Dr.'s and AT's are pushing for notably earlier starting of rehab; all made possible by limited open type surgical techniques and less time (and atrophy) in casts/or boot before starting range of motion exercises. this could potentially slice off 4-6 weeks off recovery time. But what cannot be altered by surgical technique or an early and rigorous rehab is biology.  There's a mean, and outliers above and below the time frame(s) and individually patient specific recovery ability.

 

32 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Mack was injured in week one. So it's been almost 9 months. He also is not running drills with the team. He's been working on the side by himself from everything I read. And that's about normal for the rehab process.

 

I'd also add that Mack is 25, 6ft, 210, and the picture of health as most RBs are. Fisher is 30, 6-7, and 315 lbs. Not saying Fisher can't recover quickly, but it's typically easier for younger guys to recover, and going to guess size adds another dimension. 

RB is one of the worst positions for those recovering from an Achilles and attempting a return to sport. Hoping the best for Mack.

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Yes, and the somewhat reduced ability for many those returning quickly. OTOH, Dr.'s and AT's are pushing for notably earlier starting of rehab; all made possible by limited open type surgical techniques and less time (and atrophy) in casts/or boot before starting range of motion exercises. this could potentially slice off 4-6 weeks off recovery time. But what cannot be altered by surgical technique or an early and rigorous rehab is biology.  There's a mean, and outliers above and below the time frame(s) and individually patient specific recovery ability.

Truly hoping he's an outlier. and... Hoping he has good biology/genetics lol. 

 

8 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

RB is one of the worst positions for those recovering from an Achilles and attempting a return to sport. Hoping the best for Mack.

Yup. I think Mack will heal faster though, but his return, or level of performance I should say, is my main concern. You have to think it went well thus far with him out there on the field, even in a limited role. I just hope that in addition to plain healing, he doesn't have trust issues. Would love for him to have a nice year, and get a nice gig with someone after this year.

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9 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Truly hoping he's an outlier. and... Hoping he has good biology/genetics lol. 

 

I think we all hope it, but some of us are not going to 'bank' on it. Desire it, yes. Expect it, not quite.

 

Quote

Yup. I think Mack will heal faster though,

 

May well be, as everyone is different, and not predictable.  Drew Brees had a similar (and even more intense) shoulder surgery than Luck. He recovered notably quicker than Andrew. Luck just seemed to be the outlier in the 'other' direction in healing time on his injuries; taking slightly longer.  Terrell Suggs (Achilles) and Adrian Peterson (ACL) outliers in quick healing and return to playing.

 

How Dayo and Eric respond is still in question, but the Colts doctors and training staff know where they are physically versus the projected timelines. Apparently, it's on track or better from what we fans can tell.

 

Quote

but his return, or level of performance I should say, is my main concern. You have to think it went well thus far with him out there on the field, even in a limited role. I just hope that in addition to plain healing, he doesn't have trust issues. Would love for him to have a nice year, and get a nice gig with someone after this year.

 

I hope the best for him, but I know with his injury, JT and Hines in the mix, it will be hard for him to rack up incredible stats. But I hope he shines, but I'm not expecting it. I'm interested to see how all these injuries play out.

 

 

 

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I like Fisher. I would really like to see the Colts use cap strategies to their advantage more often. You see a lot of other teams front-load contracts and offer signing/playing bonuses to avoid counting the full amount against the salary cap. 

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The degree of the Achilles tear is all important to the value of this signing. I will say that Ballard is going to have his hands full with tough contracts next year. Someone will have to back load their contract if the Colts are to keep everyone. If Fisher makes it back though, the Colts should have a bunch that can bully people on the O-line. Ballard is sharp and I'm happy. 

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