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Fisher Signing 1 Year Deal


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10 hours ago, Nickster said:

I don’t see the future at LT.  Next year’s 2nd?

 

 

I think they are hoping Fisher is the future LT.  He is only 30 and many LT's play well into their late 30's.  If he recovers and played well I'm sure they will extend him.  If not then another veteran add is more likely.  

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Such a weird deal. We're gonna pay him $9.4m to rehab his Achilles, and there's a strong chance he won't even play for us.    Of course, the team and doctors know where he is. And maybe the

I love the signing for the obvious potential he brings but...anytime I see a timeline with the Colts and an injury I cringe. Based on the Colts saying mid-September Im expecting him game 5 of 2027 

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31 minutes ago, DiogoSales said:

It's funny when we complain in the past because we were too conservative and then we take risks (Fischer/Dayo) with really great upside and we're complaining again.

To be fair, a lot of the people that are apprehensive/complaining about this signing are the same ones that were defending Ballard's conservative FA approach.

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14 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I think they are hoping Fisher is the future LT.  He is only 30 and many LT's play well into their late 30's.  If he recovers and played well I'm sure they will extend him.  If not then another veteran add is more likely.  

 

Well, we do have the trial by fire competion between Tevi, Davenport and Holden out of which the odds are good that 1 of them impresses the coaches enough to start game 1. The coaches will continue on that path, IMO, till they are convinced in practice that Eric Fisher can come back and play at the same level as their starter (or better) if they replace whoever is starting at that point in time without missing too many beats. So they will know their options by that time IF the Eric Fisher move does backfire, IMO.

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42 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

 

No surprise for me.  I think he has always been the target in FA.  Even the surprise Leno release didn't change a thing.  I think they feel confident he is going to recover and be our LT for a long time.  The one year deal works great for both sides.   That said I think both sides are expecting and looking forward to a longer deal next off season. 

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6 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Well, we do have the trial by fire competion between Tevi, Davenport and Holden out of which the odds are good that 1 of them impresses the coaches enough to start game 1. The coaches will continue on that path, IMO, till they are convinced in practice that Eric Fisher can come back and play at the same level as their starter (or better) if they replace whoever is starting at that point in time without missing too many beats. So they will know their options by that time IF the Eric Fisher move does backfire, IMO.

Now that we have signed Fisher I wouldn't be surprised if either Tevi, Davenport or Holden is cut.  I mean how many tackles are we going to have on the roster.  

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29 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I think they are hoping Fisher is the future LT.  He is only 30 and many LT's play well into their late 30's.  If he recovers and played well I'm sure they will extend him.  If not then another veteran add is more likely.  

I think 30 is where they generally drop off.  I hope he plays longer but here is an article on it.  

 

https://www.milehighreport.com/2017/2/27/14724674/age-wall-for-offensive-tackles-nfl

 

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11 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Now that we have signed Fisher I wouldn't be surprised if either Tevi, Davenport or Holden is cut.  I mean how many tackles are we going to have on the roster.  

Colts will have to perform a tacklectomy. 

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41 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

No surprise for me.  I think he has always been the target in FA.  Even the surprise Leno release didn't change a thing.  I think they feel confident he is going to recover and be our LT for a long time.  The one year deal works great for both sides.   That said I think both sides are expecting and looking forward to a longer deal next off season. 

I don’t think we can afford to keep him if he recovers and plays well this year.

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27 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

I think 30 is where they generally drop off.  I hope he plays longer but here is an article on it.  

 

https://www.milehighreport.com/2017/2/27/14724674/age-wall-for-offensive-tackles-nfl

 

 

Some LTs age gracefully...like Jason Peters and Andrew Whitworth. I think they would have gladly kept AC for a couple more seasons if he was up for it.

 

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44 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Now that we have signed Fisher I wouldn't be surprised if either Tevi, Davenport or Holden is cut.  I mean how many tackles are we going to have on the roster.  

 

I'm hoping Davenport is cut, but then we look at still signing a great swing player in Dennis Kelly. I live in Nashville, and the Titans got plenty of use out of Kelly. He has started at LT, RT, and OG at times and did well at all spots. With the uncertainty with Fisher, you need at least 2 solid backup OTs in case God forbid Braden Smith were also to get injured. 

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11 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

Some LTs age gracefully...like Jason Peters and Andrew Whitworth. I think they would have gladly kept AC for a couple more seasons if he was up for it.

 

 

I won't be surprised if they ring up AC in August and ask how he's doing...and if he'd like to help out for a couple weeks.

 

Can't hurt to make the call.  Sort of how they called up Andrew right before they traded for CW.

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1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

I think they are hoping Fisher is the future LT.  He is only 30 and many LT's play well into their late 30's.  If he recovers and played well I'm sure they will extend him.  If not then another veteran add is more likely.  

 

That would work if he doesn't take a raise if he is pro bowl caliber again.   I can't imagine that we can afford 4 extremely highly paid linemen.

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16 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

I won't be surprised if they ring up AC in August and ask how he's doing...and if he'd like to help out for a couple weeks.

 

Can't hurt to make the call.  Sort of how they called up Andrew right before they traded for CW.

I was thinking that earlier too but i bet he is one of those guys that drops weight immediately upon retirement.  I think i read him saying he ate something ridiculous like 6000 calories a day and it was work to eat like that.

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51 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

I don’t think we can afford to keep him if he recovers and plays well this year.

 

 

Agree and it would probably mean letting Smith walk. It would be way too much money locked into the O line.

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48 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

I won't be surprised if they ring up AC in August and ask how he's doing...and if he'd like to help out for a couple weeks.

 

Can't hurt to make the call.  Sort of how they called up Andrew right before they traded for CW.

Sounds like AC has already lost a bunch of weight. Ryan Kelly got married like a week ago and there were pictures going around with all the oline guys.

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2 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

Yeah...this is just the defense we are talking about. The offense has to be much better by default if they want to play late in January.

 

 

The one thing on offense I think we will see this year that we didn't see last year, is that our offense will have a clear identity. Which it seems we often talked about them not really knowing what they were last year. 

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I think this is a fine stopgap.  I am not seeing eye to eye with the notion that he might not play all year.  I mean I guess it's possible, but it would take several setbacks or if we rushed him into the lineup before he's ready (which Reich said he wouldn't do).  He'll play this year, just the question is whether or not he can get back to form and hope he doesn't reinjure it.

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42 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

I was thinking that earlier too but i bet he is one of those guys that drops weight immediately upon retirement.  I think i read him saying he ate something ridiculous like 6000 calories a day and it was work to eat like that.

I think I remember AC saying he was going to drop weight.

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1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

Now that we have signed Fisher I wouldn't be surprised if either Tevi, Davenport or Holden is cut.  I mean how many tackles are we going to have on the roster.  

Probably cut one after Training camp.

 

Have a good open competition in TC and cut the loser.

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4 hours ago, Smonroe said:

If things go sideways, Reich isn't going to take all the blame.  Ballard didn't shore up the O-Line last year.  He admits that was a mistake.  He didn't hit on edge rushers in the draft (yet) so he had to go for it again this year.  Which meant he didn't go for an OT in round one.

 

Yes, Frank pounds the table for his guys.  Sometimes things just don't work out because of injuries, etc.

 

I think they have at least three years of goodwill and I really believe they're both doing a great job.

Wentz has already been pigeon holed as the whipping boy for the O.  You know some are just waiting for the opportunity.  He partly was that at Philly, and that reputation has already partly made its way to the Colts.  Its not going to take much to blame him for a lot that goes wrong.

 

I'm sure Ballard is more fair than that, but my guess is that if Wentz fails, its going to be viewed more as a statement about Wentz than it will a statement about Reich.

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2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Wentz has already been pigeon holed as the whipping boy for the O.  You know some are just waiting for the opportunity.  He partly was that at Philly, and that reputation has already partly made its way to the Colts.  Its not going to take much to blame him for a lot that goes wrong.

 

I'm sure Ballard is more fair than that, but my guess is that if Wentz fails, its going to be viewed more as a statement about Wentz than it will a statement about Reich.

 

Maybe I'm too much of an optimist but I think Wentz is going to be just fine.  Reich knows how to handle QBs, and not to put too much on their plates.

 

The schedule is going to be tougher this year, but that never plays out like we think.  Last year I thought the Vikings, and even the rest of the NFC was going to be tough and a split would be good.  But we swept them.  Same expectations with the NFC West this year.

 

I expect the Jags to be better, and none of us should be surprised if they win a game there.  IMO Titans stayed about the same and who the heck knows what the Texans are doing?  

 

Anyway, the most important game on the schedule is the next one.  I'm so looking forward to it!

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Achilles surgeries and rehab have made tremendous progress in the past decade. Look at Emmanuel Sanders being ready for OTAs and preseason after a December injury. I never understood why people assume the worst when they have the bare minimum information about the patient. I rather trust the people that actually have the inside knowledge. Especially the doctors that no doubt gave Ballard a positive prognosis 

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3 hours ago, dw49 said:

 

 

Agree and it would probably mean letting Smith walk. It would be way too much money locked into the O line.

 

I am also concerned that we just won't be able to afford them all.  Can we really afford big contracts for Q, Smith, Leonard, Fisher.  And if Wentz pans out he is going to be in for a big payday also.  

 

Just seems like it will be too much money in 5 guys.

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3 minutes ago, gspdx said:

 

I am also concerned that we just won't be able to afford them all.  Can we really afford big contracts for Q, Smith, Leonard, Fisher.  And if Wentz pans out he is going to be in for a big payday also.  

 

Just seems like it will be too much money in 5 guys.

If by some miracle Wentz wins a SB in these next two years he will deserve a pay raise. Let’s not forget Lewis and Turay are both  FA after this season. What happens if they have big years this year. We have some very expensive players coming up. We really can’t afford Fisher. I think Tevi has a great opportunity to become the starter in 22 id he proves he can play while Fisher is healing up.

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50 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

If by some miracle Wentz wins a SB in these next two years he will deserve a pay raise. Let’s not forget Lewis and Turay are both  FA after this season. What happens if they have big years this year. We have some very expensive players coming up. We really can’t afford Fisher. I think Tevi has a great opportunity to become the starter in 22 id he proves he can play while Fisher is healing up.

 

Agreed.  Even if he doesn't win a SB - let's just say he is competitive and leads the team on a good playoff run 1 of the 2 years - I think he will cost a bunch of money.  That is just the way it is with QBs.

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10 hours ago, Nickster said:

Personnel.  They’ve spent quite a bit of draft capital on secondary and Dends.  Thus far the results of that outlay of capital is mediocre at best.  With our weakness in coverage including our all pro Will, I think blitzing would be disastrous in the current scheme.

 

Our soft zone makes it easy for WR/QBs. Our low blitz % makes it easy for OL/QBs.... 

Those two things have little to do with personnel.

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8 hours ago, RudyB4u said:

Why not put Fisher at LG and Big Q at LT?

Why do that?  When healthy Fisher is one of the better LTs in the league and when healthy you could argue Big Q is the best LG in the league. 

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8 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

Scheme...and stubbornness to stick with it. I don't have an axe to grind with the coaching staff, but this is my observation:

 

I think the current defensive scheme works extremely well against bad teams with bad OLs and QBs. The Colts are able to get pressure with their front 4 and can sit back in zone and make plays on the ball. And then they get a good lead and are able to do this even more. These games lift the overall stats for the season...and it's what many people tend to remember. But it's an incomplete view of the defense.

 

Because as the schedule gets tougher, teams also start to adjust...and then you have a precipitous drop-off in performance over the course of the season. You also see this in-game as well later in the season (with slow starts and then the Colts roaring back to somehow win). 

 

So which defense are the Colts? 

 

1st 8 games (2020)

- 63% completion

- 206 passing yds/game

- 10 TD/11 INT

- 76 passer rating

- 3.3 yds/carry

- 6 rushing TDs

 

Last 8 games (2020)

- 68% completion

- 277 passing yds/game

- 14 TD/4 INT

- 98 passer rating

- 4.1 yds/carry

- 10 rushing TDs

 

It's a fair question to ask. Because there wasn't any high-profile injuries (other than Hooker at the beginning). The defense over the back half of the season wasn't anywhere near a top 10 defense.

 

Interestingly, a very similar thing happened to the offense in 2019 with JB at QB. Obviously they didn't have the same expectations, but they were really good earlier in the season (against bad pass defenses)...but then fell off tremendously as the schedule got tougher and teams adjusted to the offense.

 

So you have different sides of the ball in different seasons...with similar levels of regression.

 

Talent is part of it...but it would also seem to me like some combo of scheme and stubborn coaching mindset is the big culprit here. 

 

 

Yup. Doesn't take much to look good against bad teams lol.

I'm not asking to blitz near the top of the league, but I just want to be near the mean/median. Right now we're close to last. 

I just don't think people understand how low our blitz % is/was. And our personnel did not do bad at all taking that into context. Heck, we got more pressures than several teams that blitzed twice as much (like Houston and the Bills).

 

And I'm tired of our soft zone making bad QBs look good lol... I still have night terrors of Minshew carving us up.. 

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3 hours ago, TheMose said:

Achilles surgeries and rehab have made tremendous progress in the past decade. Look at Emmanuel Sanders being ready for OTAs and preseason after a December injury.

 

His Injury/repair was December 5th.  (Almost 2 months earlier than Fisher)  He got 1 catch for 5 yards in a pre-season game (where they don't play the whole game) about 8 1/2 months later (August 19), or 257 days.  Fisher would have to make his first game appearance on about October 17, 2021 to be comparable.  It seems many teams are accelerating rehab on players that had limited or mini-open repair Technique.  And things don't always work the same for every player.

 

Take Sidney Jones. For example. He tore his Achilles at his pro day in 2017. He fell from a certain first round pick to the Eagles in the second round at #43.  Jones also had the new tech mini-open Achilles repair performed by Dr. R. Anderson on March 21, 2017 which is just a couple months shy of his 21st birthday. 

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/261854/new-advances-in-achilles-treatment-encouraging-for-sidney-jones-nfl-players

 

He did not get activated onto the Eagles active 53 roster until December 30, 2017, the Eagles final regular season game. (It was just slightly more than 9 months in recovery). He was not active for any post season play (Super Bowl season) that year.

 

He was waived by the Eagles a couple years later, and has suffered hamstring and Achilles injuries with the Jags since.

 

Here was his 'talk' and buzz after his surgery-

 

Sidney Jones said he’s certain he’ll play in 2017 — and play like the first-round pick he believes he still deserves to be.

“I’m the best corner in the draft, plain and simple,” Jones told USA TODAY Sports. “Don’t look at the possibility of me not playing this first year....  ... I can play basically right when the season starts."

Ummm, no. I'm sorry, he did not. He was only 20-21 years old, and also had the 'latest' improvements in surgical technique for Achilles repair. It was just 3-4 years ago.

 

You can't make a comp based upon just one other person, otherwise Terrell Suggs would be the target and not the outlier.

 

3 hours ago, TheMose said:

I never understood why people assume the worst when they have the bare minimum information about the patient. I rather trust the people that actually have the inside knowledge. Especially the doctors that no doubt gave Ballard a positive prognosis 

 

Some don't assume the worst, but they are aware of the averages.

 

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20 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Yup. Doesn't take much to look good against bad teams lol.

I'm not asking to blitz near the top of the league, but I just want to be near the mean/median. Right now we're close to last. 

I just don't think people understand how low our blitz % is/was. And our personnel did not do bad at all taking that into context. Heck, we got more pressures than several teams that blitzed twice as much (like Houston and the Bills).

 

And I'm tired of our soft zone making bad QBs look good lol... I still have night terrors of Minshew carving us up.. 

Yeah but... you still need athletes that can mix it up a little too. At some point it does kind of become about personnel. If you draft and sign for scheme fit, you get what you get and hope for a plus in other areas so you can throw in some different looks. At least they are honest about it. At least they don't have Mike Shanahan trying to put square pegs in round holes.

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1 minute ago, JoeThornburg said:

Yeah but... you still need athletes that can mix it up a little too. At some point it does kind of become about personnel. If you draft and sign for scheme fit, you get what you get and hope for a plus in other areas so you can throw in some different looks. At least they are honest about it. At least they don't have Mike Shanahan trying to put square pegs in round holes.

Agreed. Who on our defense is supposed to blitz, from what position?  Name the players, and you'll probably see an incompetent blitzer.  Leonard may be good at it, but who is talented enough to cover Leonard's position?  

 

Blitz Willis?, maybe.  Rhodes..no.  RYS?  Oke?  Should we have blitzed with Walker? 

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Just now, JoeThornburg said:

Yeah but... you still need athletes that can mix it up a little too. At some point it does kind of become about personnel. If you draft and sign for scheme fit, you get what you get and hope for a plus in other areas so you can throw in some different looks. At least they are honest about it. At least they don't have Mike Shanahan trying to put square pegs in round holes.

LOL, says the fan of Pitt who blitzes 40+% (Colts blitz 17%) and has had an exciting D over the years. And you guys only had 3% more pressures than Indy. Can you imagine if we blitzed near the league average or a bit more, like around 27%. 

 

IMO, our DE personnel were hampered by our low blitz %. OLs could settle in and expect pretty much the same thing all game. Just stunting. Personnel wise though, Oke had a horrible blitz-to-pressure success rate when they did blitz him. But the other guys were decent.

 

Around scheme fit... I wouldn't say Ballard has drafted heavy scheme fit. I have questioned that facet many times.

Ya-Sin - came from a press man system, and asked to play mostly zone

Hooker - was a single high FS then asked to play C2 mostly.

Blackmon - from a heavy man system, now playing zone.

Banogu - from a unique 4-2-5 that many call an up-safety 8 man front (lots of blitzing from all over)

Oke - ILB from a 3-4, not playing MIKE in what is mostly a 4-2-5

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16 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Agreed. Who on our defense is supposed to blitz, from what position?  Name the players, and you'll probably see an incompetent blitzer.  Leonard may be good at it, but who is talented enough to cover Leonard's position?  

 

Blitz Willis?, maybe.  Rhodes..no.  RYS?  Oke?  Should we have blitzed with Walker? 

Maybe you should look at the stats before chiming in lol...

 

Leonard, Willis, Walker, and Moore all had good blitz-to-pressure ratios. Moore's was very good, and Willis's almost elite. Oke stunk. 

 

Teams rarely blitz their CB1 (Rhodes), and to a lesser extent FS (in our scheme).

 

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14 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

His Injury/repair was December 5th.  (Almost 2 months earlier than Fisher)  He got 1 catch for 5 yards in a pre-season game (where they don't play the whole game) about 8 1/2 months later (August 19), or 257 days.  Fisher would have to make his first game appearance on about October 17, 2021 to be comparable.  It seems many teams are accelerating rehab on players that had limited or mini-open repair Technique.  And things don't always work the same for every player.

 

Take Sidney Jones. For example. He tore his Achilles at his pro day in 2017. He fell from a certain first round pick to the Eagles in the second round at #43.  Jones also had the new tech mini-open Achilles repair performed by Dr. R. Anderson on March 21, 2017 which is just a couple months shy of his 21st birthday. 

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/261854/new-advances-in-achilles-treatment-encouraging-for-sidney-jones-nfl-players

 

He did not get activated onto the Eagles active 53 roster until December 30, 2017, the Eagles final regular season game. (It was just slightly more than 9 months in recovery). He was not active for any post season play (Super Bowl season) that year.

 

He was waived by the Eagles a couple years later, and has suffered hamstring and Achilles injuries with the Jags since.

 

Here was his 'talk' and buzz after his surgery-

 

Sidney Jones said he’s certain he’ll play in 2017 — and play like the first-round pick he believes he still deserves to be.

“I’m the best corner in the draft, plain and simple,” Jones told USA TODAY Sports. “Don’t look at the possibility of me not playing this first year....  ... I can play basically right when the season starts."

Ummm, no. I'm sorry, he did not. He was only 20-21 years old, and also had the 'latest' improvements in surgical technique for Achilles repair. It was just 3-4 years ago.

 

You can't make a comp based upon just one other person, otherwise Terrell Suggs would be the target and not the outlier.

 

 

Some don't assume the worst, but they are aware of the averages.

 

Great post man. I will say this. If I'm doing this I look first and foremost at where the bye weeks are gonna fall this year. If yinz end up with say a week 5 bye, Fisher ain't sniffing the field until after that bye week. I seriously doubt the Colts will be 0-4 at that point no matter who they plug in on the short term. I'd personally rather let the guy heal and worry about what I gotta pay people next year, plus, if you roll it that way Ballard can always go back and say well yanno, we were only 2-2 without you. I'd see how the schedule pans out before really setting a timeline to any of it. Also, if he's got a game early against an elite pass rush, that's another consideration.

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1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

LOL, says the fan of Pitt who blitzes 40+% (Colts blitz 17%) and has had an exciting D over the years. And you guys only had 3% more pressures than Indy. Can you imagine if we blitzed near the league average or a bit more, like around 27%. 

 

IMO, our DE personnel were hampered by our low blitz %. OLs could settle in and expect pretty much the same thing all game. Just stunting. Personnel wise though, Oke had a horrible blitz-to-pressure success rate when they did blitz him. But the other guys were decent.

 

Around scheme fit... I wouldn't say Ballard has drafted heavy scheme fit. I have questioned that facet many times.

Ya-Sin - came from a press man system, and asked to play mostly zone

Hooker - was a single high FS then asked to play C2 mostly.

Blackmon - from a heavy man system, now playing zone.

Banogu - from a unique 4-2-5 that many call an up-safety 8 man front (lots of blitzing from all over)

Oke - ILB from a 3-4, not playing MIKE in what is mostly a 4-2-5

OK man I get it. But again the point stands about scheme fit. 4-3, or more often what you guys have you don't even have a Sam on the field most of the time. So that part I do get what you are saying.

 

But a 3-4 zone is a totally different animal. I mean I don't care if my corners can't cover as long as they can tackle. But you need linebackers that can run the gamut. I'm not gonna take a guy like Paye and toss him in at 3 tech or zero nose in the nickel even if he's technically a defensive end. By definition a 3-4 defense has to blitz more. I know you're talking 5+ here but in a 3-4 you have to have to sniff out what side the extra guy is coming from because you only have 3 down. It makes it easier to scheme for blitz packages.

 

Your point is taken because I know you know your stuff but at the same time, what are we seeing in practice that says not to send that 5th guy? Is he just gonna be wasted? Is there gonna be a 20 yard gap on a seam or a slant if I do send him?

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9 minutes ago, JoeThornburg said:

OK man I get it. But again the point stands about scheme fit. 4-3, or more often what you guys have you don't even have a Sam on the field most of the time. So that part I do get what you are saying.

 

But a 3-4 zone is a totally different animal. I mean I don't care if my corners can't cover as long as they can tackle. But you need linebackers that can run the gamut. I'm not gonna take a guy like Paye and toss him in at 3 tech or zero nose even if he's technically a defensive end. By definition a 3-4 defense has to blitz more. I know you're talking 5+ here but in a 3-4 you have to have to sniff out what side the extra guy is coming from because you only have 3 down. t makes it easier to scheme for blitz packages.

 

Your point is taken because I know you know your stuff but at the same time, what are we seeing in practice that says not to send that 5th guy? Is he just gonna be wasted? Is there gonna be a 20 yard gap on a seam or a slant if I do send him?

I know 3-4s naturally have higher blitz rates. But we're not mid of 4-3s either. Like I said, I don't want to be blitz happy, just not 31st in the league. We're just way too predicable. And to play so much nickel and dime, and not blitz, and be so soft in our zone... Just frustrating. Feels like we're the safest team in the league. And it showed late in the season. Having 5 or 6 DBs out there and still get picked apart lol. We're conservative on the other side too... It feels like our identity lol...

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14 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

What’s sad about the blitz is we have two of the best in the league at it in Leonard and Moore.

I'd love to see more from Willis and Moore.

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