MLB 2021 Season: It's Your Pitch, Jay Kirk

[Myles]

I really have no interest in watching the highest payrolled team win games. 

[PuntersArePeopleToo]

14 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I know Javi plays for the Mets but other than that not sure. 

Haha, 2015, Cubs beat Pittsburgh in WC, then beat our rival (Cardinals had best record in league, us 3rd behind Pirates), then went on to lose in a sweep in NLCS vs Mets, who then lost to the Royals 

[2006Coltsbestever]

I have no interest in the ALCS, 2 cheaters are playing one another. In the last 5 seasons there have only been 3 legit World Champions IMO. That has been the Cubs in 2016, Nats in 2019, and Dodgers in 2020. Even when the Dodgers won it last season it was a 60 game season but if I had to put money on a team that was going to win it all in 2021 it would be them. They just beat the Giants, a huge hurdle.

 

2017 - Astros*

2018 - Red Sox*

 

I call the 2021 ALCS - The Cheater Bowl for the American League Pennant  

[landrus13]

Braves actually won Game 1 last night. That was a little surprising. They've been pitching very well lately. I'm not sure they'll win the NLCS but I'm definitely rooting for them to win it all. I don't wanna see any of the other 3 teams win it.

[Barry Sears]

Hello all...I was on vacation last week so I'm on here catching up.

 

Shildt firing was a BIG surprise.  Will be interesting to see who the Cardinals hire as their new manager.  They do like to promote from within, but they also did that with Shildt, so who knows.  I hear the Padres are interested in Shildt.

 

As far as the payoffs now, I'm not watching, but do check the scores and watch some highlights.  I'm pulling for the Braves...I don't like the other three teams playing now.

[Myles]

32 minutes ago, Barry Sears said:

Hello all...I was on vacation last week so I'm on here catching up.

 

Shildt firing was a BIG surprise.  Will be interesting to see who the Cardinals hire as their new manager.  They do like to promote from within, but they also did that with Shildt, so who knows.  I hear the Padres are interested in Shildt.

 

As far as the payoffs now, I'm not watching, but do check the scores and watch some highlights.  I'm pulling for the Braves...I don't like the other three teams playing now.

I'm the same way.   Go Braves.   I cannot believe I'm rooting for the Astros to beat the Red Sox but I hate the Red Sox more.  

[landrus13]

I think we'll find out what the Cardinals plans for the offseason are based on who they hire. If they hire from within (which I think they will), Cardinals will likely do minimal things and basically run it back in 2022. If they hire from outside the org, I think they'll be aggressive and sign a top SS and add to the bullpen and rotation. Mozeliak really likes Jeff Albert and he wants him to remain hitting coach so I think it'll be a hire from within. An external coach is gonna wanna pick his own hitting coach, not come in with one already picked for him.

 

Ultimately, I think they'll hire Marmol and stand pat. I think Shildt wanted to improve the roster and get rid of Albert and Mozeliak said no.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

On 10/15/2021 at 8:39 AM, Myles said:

I really have no interest in watching the highest payrolled team win games. 

 

You rather watch teams like the Marlins who go out of the way to cut payroll and give their fans(if they have any) a inferior product year after year to root for? 

 

I get it, it's often unappealing to see the marquee players constantly going to the top teams, and I admit the Dodgers are a bit ridiculous A pitcher had some domestic trouble or something and they replaced him with Matt Schetlrzer lol.... but it's also bad to see the bottom dwellers continually getting rid of what few good players they have to save money and have no linterest in competing. 

 

I'm not really a Dodgers fan(but am luke warmingly rooting for them lately)i'm  a lifelong yankee fan and like 90% of yankee fans are tired of Hal and his self imposed salary cap to fatten his bank account and tearing down the YANKEE BRAND.

[2006Coltsbestever]

In 2016 when we won it all, the Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, Tigers, and Giants all had higher payrolls. We didn't cheat either to win it all. - I honestly didn't think anything could knock the big fella out - his head is made out of iron , Chap must of thrown that pitch.

[Myles]

8 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

You rather watch teams like the Marlins who go out of the way to cut payroll and give their fans(if they have any) a inferior product year after year to root for? 

 

I get it, it's often unappealing to see the marquee players constantly going to the top teams, and I admit the Dodgers are a bit ridiculous A pitcher had some domestic trouble or something and they replaced him with Matt Schetlrzer lol.... but it's also bad to see the bottom dwellers continually getting rid of what few good players they have to save money and have no linterest in competing. 

 

I'm not really a Dodgers fan(but am luke warmingly rooting for them lately)i'm  a lifelong yankee fan and like 90% of yankee fans are tired of Hal and his self imposed salary cap to fatten his bank account and tearing down the YANKEE BRAND.

I don't care for teams that cut payroll and are consistently the lowest in the league either.   That's why I would love to see MLB enact a min/max salary cap.   Maybe something like min $100 million/ Max $150 million.   The larger market teams would still have higher payrolls, just not as spread out as it is currently.

[PuntersArePeopleToo]

6 hours ago, Myles said:

I don't care for teams that cut payroll and are consistently the lowest in the league either.   That's why I would love to see MLB enact a min/max salary cap.   Maybe something like min $100 million/ Max $150 million.   The larger market teams would still have higher payrolls, just not as spread out as it is currently.

Well if that happens, then the Cardinals also need to lose all the benefits that the small market teams gets, between international bonus amounts, signing qualified FA amounts, extra draft picks for it. That is kinda why the upper teams big market spend a lot is the MLB makes it so they have to or else they are at a disadvantage. And lets be real outside of the Dodgers, the rest of the higher cost/routine teams, arent normally up there at the end of the year. Yankees make the playoffs but havent made a WS in 12 years. The Dodgers are the only team that has big high payroll year in and out and actually plays well. But even for that, outside of Mookie, Scherzer, and Bauer (before he got removed) the rest of the guys were homegrown or signed for cheap cheap before they broke out with them

[Myles]

Los Angeles Dodgers 2021 payroll - $267 million

Atlanta Braves 2021 payroll - $147 million

A difference that is more than 14 teams total payroll. 

[Myles]

4 minutes ago, PuntersArePeopleToo said:

Well if that happens, then the Cardinals also need to lose all the benefits that the small market teams gets, between international bonus amounts, signing qualified FA amounts, extra draft picks for it. That is kinda why the upper teams big market spend a lot is the MLB makes it so they have to or else they are at a disadvantage. And lets be real outside of the Dodgers, the rest of the higher cost/routine teams, arent normally up there at the end of the year. Yankees make the playoffs but havent made a WS in 12 years. The Dodgers are the only team that has big high payroll year in and out and actually plays well. But even for that, outside of Mookie, Scherzer, and Bauer (before he got removed) the rest of the guys were homegrown or signed for cheap cheap before they broke out with them

You sure about that?

The top 5 in payroll:

Dodgers

Yankees

Mets

Astros

Red Sox

 

4 of the 5 made the playoffs.   Heck 3 are still playing.

 

In 2020, 4 of the 5 highest payrolls made the playoffs.

 

In 2019 on 2 of 5, but that is still good odds.

 

2018 3 of 5.

 

That's 13 out of 20 playoff spots are teams in the top 5 of total payroll.     

[PuntersArePeopleToo]

1 hour ago, Myles said:

You sure about that?

The top 5 in payroll:

Dodgers

Yankees

Mets

Astros

Red Sox

 

4 of the 5 made the playoffs.   Heck 3 are still playing.

 

In 2020, 4 of the 5 highest payrolls made the playoffs.

 

In 2019 on 2 of 5, but that is still good odds.

 

2018 3 of 5.

 

That's 13 out of 20 playoff spots are teams in the top 5 of total payroll.     

 

 

2 of those teams have been caught cheating, which plays a lot more in to making the playoffs, The Dodgers and technically the Astros (I am surprised they are high payroll) are the only 2 of those that are consistently in playoffs/WS. Yankees are in it, but keep losing. The Red Sox have one good year then crash the next, and go through a cycle. Mets one year they are high and they got destroyed. That is what I am saying is that just a top payroll doesnt mean much, and the MLB forces the Big Markets to spend a lot of money as your team type get a benefit that the big clubs cant. Plus the big markets have to share revenue with your teams. And you really cant count 2020, literally more than half the league made the playoffs. You make it seem just cuz you spend a crap ton the team automatically gets the playoffs. I mean look at the Phillies who went and brought their team, they cant even get to 500. As I said, Dodgers and even the Astros made a lot of their team for cheaper deals or drafting. Yankees is mix on who. Mets tried to buy a team and got destroyed. Cubs the last years had a high payroll with a lot of homegrown guys

[Myles]

16 minutes ago, PuntersArePeopleToo said:

 

 

2 of those teams have been caught cheating, which plays a lot more in to making the playoffs, The Dodgers and technically the Astros (I am surprised they are high payroll) are the only 2 of those that are consistently in playoffs/WS. Yankees are in it, but keep losing. The Red Sox have one good year then crash the next, and go through a cycle. Mets one year they are high and they got destroyed. That is what I am saying is that just a top payroll doesnt mean much, 

I totally disagree.   13 of the top 5 payroll teams of the past 4 years have made the playoffs.   Only 7 did not.   It's pretty obvious the top 5 payroll teams have a great advantage.

There will always be exceptions though.  

[PuntersArePeopleToo]

7 minutes ago, Myles said:

I totally disagree.   13 of the top 5 payroll teams of the past 4 years have made the playoffs.   Only 7 did not.   It's pretty obvious the top 5 payroll teams have a great advantage.

There will always be exceptions though.  

As I said, take out last year, the last 3 years of a full season, where it isnt just random luck, 9 of the 15 made it, which is 60%  and even that, the Dodgers are the one team that has taken it year after year. The Astros, only recently started to get up in money, and likely will be down next year. The Yankees are high in money but choke each year. The fact is MLB made it this way by giving "small market" teams advantages and less harm in signing players who had qualifying offers and also get them more draft shots at higher portion of the draft. The Big market teams have to take advantage of the money portion since they will not get the other portion. It at worst evens out. 

[Myles]

1 minute ago, PuntersArePeopleToo said:

As I said, take out last year, the last 3 years of a full season, where it isnt just random luck, 9 of the 15 made it, which is 60%  and even that, the Dodgers are the one team that has taken it year after year. The Astros, only recently started to get up in money, and likely will be down next year. The Yankees are high in money but choke each year. The fact is MLB made it this way by giving "small market" teams advantages and less harm in signing players who had qualifying offers and also get them more draft shots at higher portion of the draft. The Big market teams have to take advantage of the money portion since they will not get the other portion. It at worst evens out. 

I don't think we need to remove last year.  4 of the 5 highest payrolled team made it, just like this season.   It's a fairly common theme.  The Yankee's may "choke" but they either get to the playoffs most years or lose the division to another top 5 payroll team.  Same happened to the Giants and Dodgers in years past.  

In 4 years, 13 top 5 salary teams have made the playoffs compared to on 7 of the other 25 payrolls.   I understand the smaller teams get some compensation, but it is obviously not enough and doesn't compete with having a top 5 payroll.  

Heck, you can look at the Cubs.  2014 - 23rd, 2015 - 15th, 2016 - 6th.  Not quite top 5, but you get the idea.   Most teams need to spend top 5 to have a successful season.   Not all, but it is obviously a huge advantage.

[PuntersArePeopleToo]

10 minutes ago, Myles said:

I don't think we need to remove last year.  4 of the 5 highest payrolled team made it, just like this season.   It's a fairly common theme.  The Yankee's may "choke" but they either get to the playoffs most years or lose the division to another top 5 payroll team.  Same happened to the Giants and Dodgers in years past.  

In 4 years, 13 top 5 salary teams have made the playoffs compared to on 7 of the other 25 payrolls.   I understand the smaller teams get some compensation, but it is obviously not enough and doesn't compete with having a top 5 payroll.  

Heck, you can look at the Cubs.  2014 - 23rd, 2015 - 15th, 2016 - 6th.  Not quite top 5, but you get the idea.   Most teams need to spend top 5 to have a successful season.   Not all, but it is obviously a huge advantage.

Actually in 4 years, 13 top 5 have made playoffs. But 39 of the other 25 payrolls have made the playoffs. So each year, the top 5 have made the up 3.25 each year, the remaining teams have made up the remainder of the field. 

[Myles]

15 hours ago, PuntersArePeopleToo said:

Actually in 4 years, 13 top 5 have made playoffs. But 39 of the other 25 payrolls have made the playoffs. So each year, the top 5 have made the up 3.25 each year, the remaining teams have made up the remainder of the field. 

Thanks, I mistyped.  

For me the main statistic is that 65% of the teams with a top 5 salary make the playoffs.   That is a clear advantage.  

[Barry Sears]

Well, the Astros and Braves are on the verge of moving onto the World Series, but we know anything can happen.  Astros offense is just too much for the Red Sox in this series, so I see them advancing.  Can't count out the Dodgers making a comeback, but they've lost J. Turner for the year and he's always been clutch in the playoffs, so he will be missed.

 

I was thinking last evening when Lux didn't didn't make a catch in CF, that the Dodgers spending on big names has forced them to play guys out of their best positions on defense to get them into the lineup.  Lux in CF, Seager at 2b, etc.  I think we'll see more misplays from LA because they have guys playing out of position.  When Lux didn't play CF aggressively last night with 2 outs, it allowed Atlanta to score a run they may have otherwise not had if there was a regular CF in the game.

 

Hoping the Braves can wrap this one up tonight!

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 hours ago, Barry Sears said:

Well, the Astros and Braves are on the verge of moving onto the World Series, but we know anything can happen.  Astros offense is just too much for the Red Sox in this series, so I see them advancing.  Can't count out the Dodgers making a comeback, but they've lost J. Turner for the year and he's always been clutch in the playoffs, so he will be missed.

 

I was thinking last evening when Lux didn't didn't make a catch in CF, that the Dodgers spending on big names has forced them to play guys out of their best positions on defense to get them into the lineup.  Lux in CF, Seager at 2b, etc.  I think we'll see more misplays from LA because they have guys playing out of position.  When Lux didn't play CF aggressively last night with 2 outs, it allowed Atlanta to score a run they may have otherwise not had if there was a regular CF in the game.

 

Hoping the Braves can wrap this one up tonight!

Braves up 3-1 I love it but the Dodgers are very capable of coming back, they did it last year vs the Braves. Go Braves. @Jared Cisnerosis a huge Braves fan, I hope for him the Braves don't blow this.

[Myles]

This is what I wanted once it was down to these 4 teams.   I will be happy if the Dodgers and Red Sox lose. 

I may be flipping to the Braves game tonight when the Browns/Broncos are at commercial and halftime.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

57 minutes ago, Myles said:

This is what I wanted once it was down to these 4 teams.   I will be happy if the Dodgers and Red Sox lose. 

I may be flipping to the Braves game tonight when the Browns/Broncos are at commercial and halftime.  

Braves need to close this out tonight because if the Dodgers get any kind of momentum it won't be good. 

[PuntersArePeopleToo]

6 hours ago, Barry Sears said:

Well, the Astros and Braves are on the verge of moving onto the World Series, but we know anything can happen.  Astros offense is just too much for the Red Sox in this series, so I see them advancing.  Can't count out the Dodgers making a comeback, but they've lost J. Turner for the year and he's always been clutch in the playoffs, so he will be missed.

 

I was thinking last evening when Lux didn't didn't make a catch in CF, that the Dodgers spending on big names has forced them to play guys out of their best positions on defense to get them into the lineup.  Lux in CF, Seager at 2b, etc.  I think we'll see more misplays from LA because they have guys playing out of position.  When Lux didn't play CF aggressively last night with 2 outs, it allowed Atlanta to score a run they may have otherwise not had if there was a regular CF in the game.

 

Hoping the Braves can wrap this one up tonight!

 

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Braves up 3-1 I love it but the Dodgers are very capable of coming back, they did it last year vs the Braves. Go Braves. @Jared Cisnerosis a huge Braves fan, I hope for him the Braves don't blow this.

 

 

Well last year the Braves had the Dodgers on the Ropes and then pulled an Indians move a blew a 3-1 lead. Lets see if they can hold on. I will be watching the Browns-Broncos game but will kinda keep up with the MLB games

[LJpalmbeacher2]

On 10/18/2021 at 12:41 PM, Myles said:

I'm the same way.   Go Braves.   I cannot believe I'm rooting for the Astros to beat the Red Sox but I hate the Red Sox more.  

 

Both teams should have been sanctioned ineligible for years from post season games like the NCAA does. But I hate them both too so maybe I'm biased. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Belated post to 3rd game in LA.

What an exciting 8th inning that was and so meaningful too. Dodgers down 2 games and down 3 runs in the 8th and came back and won. 

I was pulling for the Dodgers to come back and win the game and the tension and excitement in that inning was very enjoyable.  And since baseball is a much slower paced game there's so much more time for the tension/anticipation to build. 

I really enjoyed it. 

Too bad for them they played like crud the following game ....but atleast theyp came back to win convincingly in game 5...... I would like to see a game 7, they are usually fun.

[PuntersArePeopleToo]

3 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

Both teams should have been sanctioned ineligible for years from post season games like the NCAA does. But I hate them both too so maybe I'm biased. 

Well you really cant do that, unlike the NCAA these are professionals being paid and made around the fans. 

 

Now their WS trophy and Rings should have been stripped 

[PuntersArePeopleToo]

Braves Advance to World Series! 

 

I am guessing almost this entire forum is going for the Braves, sans @NFLfan

[2006Coltsbestever]

27 minutes ago, PuntersArePeopleToo said:

Braves Advance to World Series! 

 

I am guessing almost this entire forum is going for the Braves, sans @NFLfan

Congrats to the Braves and @Jared Cisneros

[NFLfan]

5 hours ago, PuntersArePeopleToo said:

Braves Advance to World Series! 

 

I am guessing almost this entire forum is going for the Braves, sans @NFLfan

 

Lol. I actually have not been following the post-season. I may watch the World Series. 

[landrus13]

Cardinals are hiring their new "yes man" Oli Marmol today. Press conference should be starting any minute. Not too impressed with the hire. Cardinals wanted another manager they could push around and someone who wouldn't challenge them to acquire new talent, and that's what they got.

[landrus13]

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/another-bird-of-a-feather-cardinals-set-to-announce-oliver-marmol-as-next-manager/article_79fe879a-84a5-51de-aa80-78f5a3faf8f8.html

 

Here's the article about it if anyone wants to read it. Shildt was fired for "pushing too hard". Sounds like he wanted to make some changes to the roster or coaching staff and the front office didn't want to. Mozeliak and Co. don't like being challenged into making moves. That's why they couldn't wait for LaRussa to retire and why they hire internally.

[Myles]

Marmol was a manager for the  Johnson City Cardinals and in 2015 was promoted to manager of the Palm Beach Cardinals.  So he did earn his stipes.  

 

He got his first managerial gig in the organization with the team's rookie-level affiliate, the Johnson City Cardinals, in 2012. He went 39-28 in his only season in Johnson City.

The next two years, he managed the State College Spikes, then the Cardinals' short-season Single-A affiliate. In his two seasons in State College, the team had its best two years, going 48-27 in 2013 and 48-28 in 2014. 

During his time in State College, he managed future big leaguers Luke Voit, Rowan Wick, Luis Perdomo and Carson Kelly, among others.

 

In 2015 and 2016, he managed the Palm Beach Cardinals, St. Louis' full-season Single-A Advanced affiliate. The pitching staff for the 2016 club included Jack Flaherty, Sandy Alcantara, Austin Gomber and Dakota Hudson.

His overall record as a minor league manager was 268-225

Marmol got his call-up to the majors in 2017 when he was named the club's first base coach. After two years in that position, Marmol was promoted to bench coach, a job he held from 2019 until being named manager of the big league team.

[Barry Sears]

5 hours ago, landrus13 said:

Cardinals are hiring their new "yes man" Oli Marmol today. Press conference should be starting any minute. Not too impressed with the hire. Cardinals wanted another manager they could push around and someone who wouldn't challenge them to acquire new talent, and that's what they got.

 

I have no opinion either way on this hire.  Read a little about him, but will need to see how he does next season.  Players should be familiar with him, so that's a plus.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

On 10/25/2021 at 12:25 PM, landrus13 said:

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/another-bird-of-a-feather-cardinals-set-to-announce-oliver-marmol-as-next-manager/article_79fe879a-84a5-51de-aa80-78f5a3faf8f8.html

 

Here's the article about it if anyone wants to read it. Shildt was fired for "pushing too hard". Sounds like he wanted to make some changes to the roster or coaching staff and the front office didn't want to. Mozeliak and Co. don't like being challenged into making moves. That's why they couldn't wait for LaRussa to retire and why they hire internally.

 

Todays managers are the opposite of yesteryears  type of manager, earl weaver, Billy Martin,  Larussa etc.... the management want "yes men" and "puppet" types that do what the analytical people and GM say. That's why the Yankees hired Aaron Boone and now resigned him. 

Teams are in control by management not by managers. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Congrats to the Braves, hope they go on to win it all.

 

Teams like the Braves & Nats will come up on any given year and have things fall together in trades, fa signings,  and play gritty together but they won't be at or near the top consistently year after year....the Nats were no where near this year and  The braves may not even make the playoffs next season.

 

Teams like the Dodgers, that take advantage of their resources,  will be a contender most every year...which is great for their fanbase.

 

Unfortunately for us Yankee fans our team doesn't even come close to the moves & payroll of the Dodgers. But the Yankees do spend enough to make us contenders and usually a playoff team in a tough division. 

Just wish hal & cashman can get us to a world series soon. Lol

 

Go Braves.

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

Congrats to the Braves, hope they go on to win it all.

 

Teams like the Braves & Nats will come up on any given year and have things fall together in trades, fa signings,  and play gritty together but they won't be at or near the top consistently year after year....the bats were no where near this year and  The braves may not even make the playoffs next season.

 

Teams like the Dodgers, that take advantage of their resources,  will be a contender most every year. 

 

Unfortunately for us Yankee fans our team doesn't even come close to the moves & payroll of the Dodgers. But the Yankees do spend enough to make us contenders and usually a playoff team in a tough division. 

Just wish hal & cashman can get us to a world series soon. Lol

 

Go Braves.

I love history and I will admit you guys had the best team I have ever seen in 1998 going 114-48, IMO @NFLfanMets were the 2nd best team I have ever seen at 108-54 in 1986, my Cubs were the 3rd best in 2016 at 103-58. Hey I get a Bronze- It is hard to believe the 2 best franchise of all-time haven't won a WS in over decade = Yankees in 2009 and Cards in 2011. The Dodgers won 1 last year but in a 60 game season and have choked away a ton of chances since 2016 with that payroll. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I love history and I will admit you guys had the best team I have ever seen in 1998 going 114-48, IMO @NFLfanMets were the 2nd best team I have ever seen at 108-54 in 1986, my Cubs were the 3rd best in 2016 at 103-58. Hey I get a Bronze- It is hard to believe the 2 best franchise of all-time haven't won a WS in over decade = Yankees in 2009 and Cards in 2011. The Dodgers won 1 last year but in a 60 game season and have choked away a ton of chances since 2016 with that payroll. 

 

Yeah despite all that money spent, wheeling & dealing, and winning they only have 1 world championship lately. Shows you how hard it is to WIN IT ALL......and it shows how ridiculous and suspicious all the trophies the Pat's & now the cheater in tampa have won. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

Yeah despite all that money spent, wheeling & dealing, and winning they only have 1 world championship lately. Shows you how hard it is to WIN IT ALL......and it shows how ridiculous and suspicious all the trophies the Pat's & now the cheater in tampa have won. 

What Tom Brady is doing has been unreal, I don't like the guy but he is the GOAT IMO and I love Peyton. I have Peyton 2nd or 3rd because I factor in Joe. Yes winning a WS requires a ton of luck, what the Yankees did from 1998-2000 by 3-Peating was so unreal, that is another reason that team was the best at least IMO. = their 1998 team. You guys had a lot of .300 hitters and the pitching was great too. Jeter was one of the best players I have ever seen.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Eventhough the Cards didn't win it all in 1985, that was probably their best team and that sounds dumb (because they have won 11 WS)  but they got cheated. I would fear that team more than any Cards team I have seen. 2011 won it all so they would get my nod in technical terms as being the best Cards team - Albert was a beast.