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For a long time leading up to the draft, it seemed as if the Colts would have no chance of trading up for a quarterback without absolutely mortgaging the future of the franchise. It made perfect sense when Ballard began pursuing veteran options like Stafford, before eventually trading for Carson Wentz.

 

Now that the draft is over, however, and we can look back on how things played out with hindsight, I think an interesting conversation can be had about the QB the colts ended up with.

 

Justin Fields - considered for a long time to be QB2 - fell to 11, and the Bears were able to trade up for him with just a 1st, 4th and 5th round selection. Given Fields's potential upside and rookie contract, this wasn't exactly an expensive price to pay, even if he was QB4.

 

Without knowing anything at all about the organisation's evaluation of Fields, it's difficult to say whether Ballard would have been interested in drafting Fields, even if he was available at #21. However, it's interesting to consider whether they would have been willing to make the same move that Chicago made, had they entered the off-season with the knowledge that Fields would fall to #11.

 

If we assume that Chicago would have been interested in this hypothetical scenario, it makes sense to swap their 4th with the Colts 3rd. So the two deals (real and hypothetical) end up looking like this:

 

Colts get: Carson Wentz

Eagles get: 2021 3rd, 2022 1st (probably)

 

Vs.

 

Colts get: Justin Fields

Giants get: 2021 1st, 2021 5th, 2022 1st, 2022 3rd

 

Two questions:

 

1. Do you think Ballard would have been willing to give up the second package if he knew that Fields would have been available?

2.Which trade would you prefer the Colts to have made?

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1. No, I don’t think Ballard would go for that trade if it was available. Just too much to give away for a man who ‘loves them picks!’

2. Not the easiest decision, but I think I would stick with the Wentz trade. Wentz has proven himself as a NFL starter (ranging from MVP candidate to worst starter in the league, I know...), will be able to pick up the system much faster than a rookie, and is already acclimatised to life in the NFL. 

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1 hour ago, Mackrel829 said:

For a long time leading up to the draft, it seemed as if the Colts would have no chance of trading up for a quarterback without absolutely mortgaging the future of the franchise. It made perfect sense when Ballard began pursuing veteran options like Stafford, before eventually trading for Carson Wentz.

 

Now that the draft is over, however, and we can look back on how things played out with hindsight, I think an interesting conversation can be had about the QB the colts ended up with.

 

Justin Fields - considered for a long time to be QB2 - fell to 11, and the Bears were able to trade up for him with just a 1st, 4th and 5th round selection. Given Fields's potential upside and rookie contract, this wasn't exactly an expensive price to pay, even if he was QB4.

 

Without knowing anything at all about the organisation's evaluation of Fields, it's difficult to say whether Ballard would have been interested in drafting Fields, even if he was available at #21. However, it's interesting to consider whether they would have been willing to make the same move that Chicago made, had they entered the off-season with the knowledge that Fields would fall to #11.

 

If we assume that Chicago would have been interested in this hypothetical scenario, it makes sense to swap their 4th with the Colts 3rd. So the two deals (real and hypothetical) end up looking like this:

 

Colts get: Carson Wentz

Eagles get: 2021 3rd, 2022 1st (probably)

 

Vs.

 

Colts get: Justin Fields

Giants get: 2021 1st, 2021 5th, 2022 1st, 2022 3rd

 

Two questions:

 

1. Do you think Ballard would have been willing to give up the second package if he knew that Fields would have been available?

2.Which trade would you prefer the Colts to have made?

I’m not a fan of the Wentz deal. I’m not a fan of Wentz. 
 

that said, I am also not a fan of Fields. So if it were me, and these were the only two options. would stick with the Wentz deal. It’s cheaper and having the coach who he’s connected with before, that gives it an edge over Fields. Plus if Wentz flames out or gets hurt and we drop games, we retain our first which will likely be very high in that scenario. If fields gets hurt or flames out, we’d lose the first anyway.

 

bottomline is this, the closest thing to a sure fire stud at QB is Lawerence. And no way would we have been able to get him.

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Yeah hindsight is hindsight. The rumor was the colts really liked fields. But there was no way to know he would drop. Bears got him got a good price too. I don’t think they had to give up much at all. I will take the proven QB in Wentz any day over a guy in the draft though.

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1 hour ago, csmopar said:

I’m not a fan of the Wentz deal. I’m not a fan of Wentz. 
 

that said, I am also not a fan of Fields. So if it were me, and these were the only two options. would stick with the Wentz deal. It’s cheaper and having the coach who he’s connected with before, that gives it an edge over Fields. Plus if Wentz flames out or gets hurt and we drop games, we retain our first which will likely be very high in that scenario. If fields gets hurt or flames out, we’d lose the first anyway.

 

bottomline is this, the closest thing to a sure fire stud at QB is Lawerence. And no way would we have been able to get him.

I am not sure about Lawrence. Skill is there but he just doesn’t seem to have drive and never faced adversity in college. His interviews rub me the wrong way.

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12 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

I am not sure about Lawrence. Skill is there but he just doesn’t seem to have drive and never faced adversity in college. His interviews rub me the wrong way.

 

All of the interviews about him not "needing" football in his life and he could step away and be completely happy give me Andrew Luck vibes way too much. I want a guy who lives and breathes football to be the QB of this team. I know we all hate on Tom Brady (me included) but the dude LOVES the game. Matt Stafford is another player that comes to mind. 

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1 minute ago, Wentzszn said:

Yeah hindsight is hindsight. The rumor was the colts really liked fields. But there was no way to know he would drop. Bears got him got a good price too. I don’t think they had to give up much at all. I will take the proven QB in Wentz any day over a guy in the draft though.

 

Ok...but you can't just say "well Ballard couldn't have known". That's a bit of a cop out. If he hadn't traded for Wentz, and got that Fields deal, people would be calling him a genius. 

 

It's part of his job to know these things or get a very good read on the situation. People were giving him credit for getting Paye before the ER run and then grabbing Dayo before some other teams. 

 

In recent interviews, Reich said that he started thinking about the possibilities of Wentz as QB when he was benched in Dec. And then they started having internal discussions about Wentz a month prior to the trade, which would have been mid-January. They made the trade weeks before any Pro Days. 

 

And from other things that Reich has said, it doesn't even sound like that they were really looking at the draft yet. Not to mention Ballard has always said he won't "force it" at QB.

 

Wentz was the route they chose...in lieu of playing the draft. And I think we can judge that.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

Ok...but you can't just say "well Ballard couldn't have known". That's a bit of a cop out. If he hadn't traded for Wentz, and got that Fields deal, people would be calling him a genius. 

 

It's part of his job to know these things or get a very good read on the situation. People were giving him credit for getting Paye before the ER run and then grabbing Dayo before some other teams. 

 

In recent interviews, Reich said that he started thinking about the possibilities of Wentz as QB when he was benched in Dec. And then they started having internal discussions about Wentz a month prior to the trade, which would have been mid-January. They made the trade weeks before any Pro Days. 

 

And from other things that Reich has said, it doesn't even sound like that they were really looking at the draft yet. Not to mention Ballard has always said he won't "force it" at QB.

 

Wentz was the route they chose...in lieu of playing the draft. And I think we can judge that.

 

 

And what happens if the bears had beat us out for a trade up. Then the colts are stuck with no QB. He couldn’t wait around to see what happened in the draft. Like I said I take Wentz over fields any day anyway. He at least has proven he can be good.

 

After they got Wentz Reich did mention In a interview Thry had talked about how they were going to get their QB in a trade.

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3 hours ago, Mackrel829 said:

For a long time leading up to the draft, it seemed as if the Colts would have no chance of trading up for a quarterback without absolutely mortgaging the future of the franchise. It made perfect sense when Ballard began pursuing veteran options like Stafford, before eventually trading for Carson Wentz.

 

Now that the draft is over, however, and we can look back on how things played out with hindsight, I think an interesting conversation can be had about the QB the colts ended up with.

 

Justin Fields - considered for a long time to be QB2 - fell to 11, and the Bears were able to trade up for him with just a 1st, 4th and 5th round selection. Given Fields's potential upside and rookie contract, this wasn't exactly an expensive price to pay, even if he was QB4.

 

Without knowing anything at all about the organisation's evaluation of Fields, it's difficult to say whether Ballard would have been interested in drafting Fields, even if he was available at #21. However, it's interesting to consider whether they would have been willing to make the same move that Chicago made, had they entered the off-season with the knowledge that Fields would fall to #11.

 

If we assume that Chicago would have been interested in this hypothetical scenario, it makes sense to swap their 4th with the Colts 3rd. So the two deals (real and hypothetical) end up looking like this:

 

Colts get: Carson Wentz

Eagles get: 2021 3rd, 2022 1st (probably)

 

Vs.

 

Colts get: Justin Fields

Giants get: 2021 1st, 2021 5th, 2022 1st, 2022 3rd

 

Two questions:

 

1. Do you think Ballard would have been willing to give up the second package if he knew that Fields would have been available?

2.Which trade would you prefer the Colts to have made?

 

1. I would hope so...but I honestly don't know. In all of the org's that Ballard has been part of at the time, a trade up for a QB in the 1st round has not happened (Mahomes happened after he was already in Indy). And the only time his orgs even used a 1st round pick was CHI on Grossman at #22 (which was an extra 1st round pick they had gotten in a trade back from #4). BUT...those orgs have all made substantial trades for vet QBs (Jay Cutler, Alex Smith, Carson Wentz).

 

Small sample size of transactions, but one might say that Ballard has a certain approach to QB...and it's not early in the draft.

 

Perhaps if Fields was his guy...he would have done it though. 

 

2. As for me...I definitely would have. The Fields trade is just much better. Basically the only difference in draft capital is the 1st this past year and then some change next season (since the 3rd round picks cancel out). With the 5th year option, Fields' entire rookie deal will be similar to the gtd amount they took on with Wentz. Over that same time frame, Wentz will cost at least 6x more year...and that ratio will only grow if he gets an extension after two years. 

 

With the saved cap space each year, you could do a lot of things. 

 

But even setting aside the financials, I just think Fields has more upside than Wentz. His college production in the Big 10 is just much better than what Wentz did at NDSU. And his rushing ability might even give Fields a better floor. Fields is also significantly younger...and doesn't have the injury history that Wentz has.

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1 minute ago, shasta519 said:

 

1. I would hope so...but I honestly don't know. In all of the org's that Ballard has been part of at the time, a trade up for a QB in the 1st round has not happened (Mahomes happened after he was already in Indy). And the only time his orgs even used a 1st round pick was CHI on Grossman at #22 (which was an extra 1st round pick they had gotten in a trade back from #4). BUT...those orgs have all made substantial trades for vet QBs (Jay Cutler, Alex Smith, Carson Wentz).

 

Small sample size of transactions, but one might say that Ballard has a certain approach to QB...and it's not early in the draft.

 

Perhaps if Fields was his guy...he would have done it though. 

 

2. As for me...I definitely would have. The Fields trade is just much better. Basically the only difference in draft capital is the 1st this past year and then some change next season (since the 3rd round picks cancel out). With the 5th year option, Fields' entire rookie deal will be similar to the gtd amount they took on with Wentz. Over that same time frame, Wentz will cost at least 6x more year...and that ratio will only grow if he gets an extension after two years. 

 

With the saved cap space each year, you could do a lot of things. 

 

But even setting aside the financials, I just think Fields has more upside than Wentz. His college production in the Big 10 is just much better than what Wentz did at NDSU. And his rushing ability might even give Fields a better floor. Fields is also significantly younger...and doesn't have the injury history that Wentz has.

Wentz has already proven he can play at a elite level. Fields hasn’t proven anything. 

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7 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

And what happens if the bears had beat us out for a trade up. Then the colts are stuck with no QB. He couldn’t wait around to see what happened in the draft. Like I said I take Wentz over fields any day anyway. He at least has proven he can be good.

 

After they got Wentz Reich did mention In a interview Thry had talked about how they were going to get their QB in a trade.

 

Don't let them beat you out. I mean...you aren't always going to be the only team bidding on a player/trade. Ballard has a great relationship with Dorsey...who has a great relationship with Gettleman. I would have liked the Colts chances in that scenario (not to mention they are an AFC team).

 

Reich said they were discussing trading for Wentz a month before they even made the deal. So basically since shortly after the WC game. That, along with their reported interest in Stafford, makes it pretty clear that they were prioritizing a quicker fix (which is consistent with the org's that Ballard has been part of).

 

Here is what Reich said about the draft: 

 

"Was it going to be a draft pick? Honestly, I think Chris and I were thinking, somehow we were going to figure out how we were going to be able to draft the quarterback of our future. And then this thing came with Carson and it fell into our laps. And that's the great thing about it, when it works that way, it almost makes you feel like it's more meant to be because you can't make this stuff up and you can't manufacture it. "

 

That thing with Carson (which is a great way to describe it) fell in their lap as soon as their season ended. So sure, they had preliminary talks about drafting a QB. But actions speak more than words...and nothing since Luck retired...shows that drafting a QB early is their aim. 

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4 hours ago, Mackrel829 said:

For a long time leading up to the draft, it seemed as if the Colts would have no chance of trading up for a quarterback without absolutely mortgaging the future of the franchise. It made perfect sense when Ballard began pursuing veteran options like Stafford, before eventually trading for Carson Wentz.

 

Now that the draft is over, however, and we can look back on how things played out with hindsight, I think an interesting conversation can be had about the QB the colts ended up with.

 

Justin Fields - considered for a long time to be QB2 - fell to 11, and the Bears were able to trade up for him with just a 1st, 4th and 5th round selection. Given Fields's potential upside and rookie contract, this wasn't exactly an expensive price to pay, even if he was QB4.

 

Without knowing anything at all about the organisation's evaluation of Fields, it's difficult to say whether Ballard would have been interested in drafting Fields, even if he was available at #21. However, it's interesting to consider whether they would have been willing to make the same move that Chicago made, had they entered the off-season with the knowledge that Fields would fall to #11.

 

If we assume that Chicago would have been interested in this hypothetical scenario, it makes sense to swap their 4th with the Colts 3rd. So the two deals (real and hypothetical) end up looking like this:

 

Colts get: Carson Wentz

Eagles get: 2021 3rd, 2022 1st (probably)

 

Vs.

 

Colts get: Justin Fields

Giants get: 2021 1st, 2021 5th, 2022 1st, 2022 3rd

 

Two questions:

 

1. Do you think Ballard would have been willing to give up the second package if he knew that Fields would have been available?

2.Which trade would you prefer the Colts to have made?

 

Not sure about 1, but if we didn't have a QB IMO he would have been open to it.

 

About 2 - trade for Top tier rookie QB(Fields is in this category for me) this has been my preferred outcome to this off-season since Rivers retired. I think the chance either Fields or Wentz succeeds is about the same and you are paying almost 20M more for Wentz than for Fields. 4 years of 20M additional capspace IMO is more than worth the additional 1st.

 

I still like Wentz and think he has good chance to succeed. He was one of the other two top 3 options for me at the QB positions before the off-season started. I just would have preferred we go rookie QB.

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11 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

Wentz has already proven he can play at a elite level. Fields hasn’t proven anything. 

 

Proven? It was a 12-game stretch four seasons ago...before two season-ending injuries.

 

If he's proven that he can play at an elite level...then he's also proven he can be one of the worst QBs in the NFL. Because, for the same number of games in 2020, he was a complete garbage QB.

 

But these are both extremes...and very unlikely outcomes. The bulk of the time Wentz has been a decent QB. .I just think Fields has the upside to be better than that.

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

Not sure about 1, but if we didn't have a QB IMO he would have been open to it.

 

About 2 - trade for Top tier rookie QB(Fields is in this category for me) this has been my preferred outcome to this off-season since Rivers retired. I think the chance either Fields or Wentz succeeds is about the same and you are paying almost 20M more for Wentz than for Fields. 4 years of 20M additional capspace IMO is more than worth the additional 1st.

 

I still like Wentz and think he has good chance to succeed. He was one of the other two top 3 options for me at the QB positions before the off-season started. I just would have preferred we go rookie QB.

 

I would have as well...for a multitude of reasons. But oh well. Hopefully, I am really wrong about what Wentz can do here because I really want to see this team take that next step in the near future.

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Carson has NFL tape from years of playing. We have a basic understanding of him in regards to mechanics and how he responds to NFL caliber defenses and stress. That's all on film for our staff to have seen. 

 

We have no NFL tape on Justin yet. So we don't even have a basic idea of how he will respond to the NFL when the lights turn on, and it's not even a guarantee he plays this year as Dalton is still tabbed the starting QB as of today. We won't know how Justin will do as an NFL QB until later in the future.

 

Carson was the right call for our situation. He's familiar with Reich's offense,  and he's got experience playing at a high level.

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That is really not something you want to take a chance with. You never know how a draft will fall. Look at Kwity. No one realistically thought he would fall to 21

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Reality looks much more Obvious in hind sight than in foresight. People who experience Hindsight Bias misapply current Hindsight to past Foresight . They perceive events that occurred to have been more predictable before the fact than was actually the case .

 

We have seen tape of Wentz doing really good in a Frank Reich offense & the Coach & Chris Ballard believes in him something he did not have in Philly . 

 

I look forward to the start of the season so we can live in the here & now we can then evaluate the off season moves with common sense .  

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I look at it like this:

 

If we really truly want to look at this through the prism of hindsight being 20:20, then most likely let's assume to top the Bears offer with them picking one spot earlier than us, let's assume we would have had to do a 2021 1 and 3 and a future 1 and 4 (to top the Bears' 2021 1 & 5 and future 1 & 4).

 

For simplicity sake I laid it out like this since we gave up a 2021 3rd and a 2022 1st (likely) for Wentz.

 

The question then becomes, would you right now trade:

 

Kwity Paye

Carson Wentz

2022 4th Rounder

 

For

 

Justin Fields 

 

???

 

 

When I lay it out like that, I would prefer what we have personally.

 

I could see some folks who really believe in Fields and really do not believe in Wentz as being OK w a trade like that, however.

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1 hour ago, shasta519 said:

 

Proven? It was a 12-game stretch four seasons ago...before two season-ending injuries.

 

If he's proven that he can play at an elite level...then he's also proven he can be one of the worst QBs in the NFL. Because, for the same number of games in 2020, he was a complete garbage QB.

 

But these are both extremes...and very unlikely outcomes. The bulk of the time Wentz has been a decent QB. .I just think Fields has the upside to be better than that.

You think. I mean a 12 game stretch that had Wentz in the discussion for MVP he was playing so lights out. That's not enough of a sample size for you to take a chance on him? Put this in context. Reich left and the offense as a whole in Philly went south. Pederson did not have a grip on that team either. There were a lot of factors that contributed to the mess in Philly. That team is run very poorly, which can again be illustrated by them trading up to take a 166 pound WR in one of the deepest WR classes in memory.

 

They get praised for that by some, but Pittsburgh gets crapped on for taking a generational RB at #24 that they would never get in FA, and Jacksonville gets praised for taking one right after, when they franchise tagged a LT that nobody expressed any interest in via FA. There's a lot of bias flying around in a lot of these takes. So these are all bad, unless you're Jacksonville or Philly because hey look Heisman winner, and it's good to play Russian Roulette with 3 rounds in the cylinder on a college QB with medical issues because, well hey omg it's a QB. It makes zero sense to me how people pick and choose what they like and don't like here because there is no consistency to any of it.

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I have extremely limited knowledge on Justin Fields, but while he looked good at points this last year, in certain games (cough IU game cough) he looked very shaky. Who knows, maybe he’ll be the next Aaron Rodgers. Will be interesting to see

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2 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

Ok...but you can't just say "well Ballard couldn't have known". That's a bit of a cop out. If he hadn't traded for Wentz, and got that Fields deal, people would be calling him a genius. 

 

It's part of his job to know these things or get a very good read on the situation. People were giving him credit for getting Paye before the ER run and then grabbing Dayo before some other teams. 

 

In recent interviews, Reich said that he started thinking about the possibilities of Wentz as QB when he was benched in Dec. And then they started having internal discussions about Wentz a month prior to the trade, which would have been mid-January. They made the trade weeks before any Pro Days. 

 

And from other things that Reich has said, it doesn't even sound like that they were really looking at the draft yet. Not to mention Ballard has always said he won't "force it" at QB.

 

Wentz was the route they chose...in lieu of playing the draft. And I think we can judge that.

 

 

Fields dropped in the draft in part because teams became aware in the pre-draft process that he has epilepsy. This appears to have been revealed in April, while the Colts trade for Wentz was in mid-March. How could Ballard have known? 

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6 hours ago, Mackrel829 said:

For a long time leading up to the draft, it seemed as if the Colts would have no chance of trading up for a quarterback without absolutely mortgaging the future of the franchise. It made perfect sense when Ballard began pursuing veteran options like Stafford, before eventually trading for Carson Wentz.

 

Now that the draft is over, however, and we can look back on how things played out with hindsight, I think an interesting conversation can be had about the QB the colts ended up with.

 

Justin Fields - considered for a long time to be QB2 - fell to 11, and the Bears were able to trade up for him with just a 1st, 4th and 5th round selection. Given Fields's potential upside and rookie contract, this wasn't exactly an expensive price to pay, even if he was QB4.

 

Without knowing anything at all about the organisation's evaluation of Fields, it's difficult to say whether Ballard would have been interested in drafting Fields, even if he was available at #21. However, it's interesting to consider whether they would have been willing to make the same move that Chicago made, had they entered the off-season with the knowledge that Fields would fall to #11.

 

If we assume that Chicago would have been interested in this hypothetical scenario, it makes sense to swap their 4th with the Colts 3rd. So the two deals (real and hypothetical) end up looking like this:

 

Colts get: Carson Wentz

Eagles get: 2021 3rd, 2022 1st (probably)

 

Vs.

 

Colts get: Justin Fields

Giants get: 2021 1st, 2021 5th, 2022 1st, 2022 3rd

 

Two questions:

 

1. Do you think Ballard would have been willing to give up the second package if he knew that Fields would have been available?

2.Which trade would you prefer the Colts to have made?

Let’s be clear...    you stated the terms of the Fields deal twice in your post.   The first time you got it wrong.   The second time you got it right. 
 

The Bears traded TWO 1sts,  not one.  Plus the 4 and 5.   Four picks, not 3.


Im fine with what the Colts did.  With a rookie, we’d fall back to maybe a 6 win team.   No thanks.   There was no way to know what happed.   And to do the deal, you have to assume the team would be willing to trade back to 21 for the same terms.  Not likely.

 

Everything worked out for everyone. 

 

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6 hours ago, cjrulli said:

 

All of the interviews about him not "needing" football in his life and he could step away and be completely happy give me Andrew Luck vibes way too much. I want a guy who lives and breathes football to be the QB of this team. I know we all hate on Tom Brady (me included) but the dude LOVES the game. Matt Stafford is another player that comes to mind. 

It’s not even what the media is saying. Watch him in interviews. Even luck showed passion for football when interviewed. His personality is like a dead rat lol.

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I would rather have Wentz, Paye and Davis than Fields. Fields is going to bust up there in Chicago. In three years when we are basically penciled in for AFC south title every year and Chicago is looking for a new QB, everyone will know Ballard made the better of the two choices

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4 hours ago, JoeThornburg said:

You think. I mean a 12 game stretch that had Wentz in the discussion for MVP he was playing so lights out. That's not enough of a sample size for you to take a chance on him? Put this in context. Reich left and the offense as a whole in Philly went south. Pederson did not have a grip on that team either. There were a lot of factors that contributed to the mess in Philly. That team is run very poorly, which can again be illustrated by them trading up to take a 166 pound WR in one of the deepest WR classes in memory.

 

They get praised for that by some, but Pittsburgh gets crapped on for taking a generational RB at #24 that they would never get in FA, and Jacksonville gets praised for taking one right after, when they franchise tagged a LT that nobody expressed any interest in via FA. There's a lot of bias flying around in a lot of these takes. So these are all bad, unless you're Jacksonville or Philly because hey look Heisman winner, and it's good to play Russian Roulette with 3 rounds in the cylinder on a college QB with medical issues because, well hey omg it's a QB. It makes zero sense to me how people pick and choose what they like and don't like here because there is no consistency to any of it.


Who is the QB with medical issues? Fields? His issue has been there since 9th grade. 
 

Wentz has far more injury potential...not even close.

 

People talk about one sample (2017) and ignore another sample (2020). OR they acknowledge it in the context of a bunch of reasons that have little to do with Wentz. Every sample has context...2017 too. And not just that Reich was his OC.

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1 hour ago, shasta519 said:


Who is the QB with medical issues? Fields? His issue has been there since 9th grade. 
 

Wentz has far more injury potential...not even close.

 

People talk about one sample (2017) and ignore another sample (2020). OR they acknowledge it in the context of a bunch of reasons that have little to do with Wentz. Every sample has context...2017 too. And not just that Reich was his OC.

OK my point here is, relative to the haul that other teams gave up to draft kids who have never taken a snap in the NFL, and looking at the fit they get with Wentz, how is there even a reasonable comparison here?

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8 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

Yeah hindsight is hindsight. The rumor was the colts really liked fields. But there was no way to know he would drop. Bears got him got a good price too. I don’t think they had to give up much at all. I will take the proven QB in Wentz any day over a guy in the draft though.

i would take any proven talent at any position over a maybe in the draft, i remember ryan leaf and trent r.

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57 minutes ago, DEFENSE said:

i would take any proven talent at any position over a maybe in the draft, i remember ryan leaf and trent r.


That’s a fair position. But Paye and Dayo (especially) are “maybes.” Nobody is lamenting passing on the ER FAs now. 

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12 hours ago, Mackrel829 said:

For a long time leading up to the draft, it seemed as if the Colts would have no chance of trading up for a quarterback without absolutely mortgaging the future of the franchise. It made perfect sense when Ballard began pursuing veteran options like Stafford, before eventually trading for Carson Wentz.

 

Now that the draft is over, however, and we can look back on how things played out with hindsight, I think an interesting conversation can be had about the QB the colts ended up with.

 

Justin Fields - considered for a long time to be QB2 - fell to 11, and the Bears were able to trade up for him with just a 1st, 4th and 5th round selection. Given Fields's potential upside and rookie contract, this wasn't exactly an expensive price to pay, even if he was QB4.

 

Without knowing anything at all about the organisation's evaluation of Fields, it's difficult to say whether Ballard would have been interested in drafting Fields, even if he was available at #21. However, it's interesting to consider whether they would have been willing to make the same move that Chicago made, had they entered the off-season with the knowledge that Fields would fall to #11.

 

If we assume that Chicago would have been interested in this hypothetical scenario, it makes sense to swap their 4th with the Colts 3rd. So the two deals (real and hypothetical) end up looking like this:

 

Colts get: Carson Wentz

Eagles get: 2021 3rd, 2022 1st (probably)

 

Vs.

 

Colts get: Justin Fields

Giants get: 2021 1st, 2021 5th, 2022 1st, 2022 3rd

 

Two questions:

 

1. Do you think Ballard would have been willing to give up the second package if he knew that Fields would have been available?

2.Which trade would you prefer the Colts to have made?

 

If Wentz wasn't available, I doubt colts go into draft with just Eason on roster. Ballard would have acquired someone...someone like Dalton, Bridewater, Darnold, maybe even Brisset.....maybe even talk Rivers into coming back.

I don't think our draft capital would have been compromised to a point where we couldn't have traded up for Fields....but I kinda doubt he would have pulled it off. 

 

Despite liking Wentz, ( I was one of the first here to say let's get him ), I wish Fields was a Colt.

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Everyone knows I’ve been Team Fields from the jump.  So I’m taking the Fields deal every time over Wentz.  I even advocated for us to let the Bears take Wentz so we could pursue Fields.  How ironic that the opposite would play out...

 

I personally think Frank was the big reason for us letting Rivers walk and thus us getting Wentz.  That seems all the more certain by Frank & Carson sharing bible verses in the With the Next Pick video.  Honestly, I’d have rather brought Rivers back & still moved up for Fields & let him sit for a year. 
 

He could have played the Jacoby role (specialized packages) & got to learn the quick game from watching Rivers.  That ship has sailed now though and I’m praying that Frank & Carson can rediscover their mojo.  I have my doubts (I was even willing to part with Frank & let he & Carson do their reunion in Philly) but I’m a Colts fan, so I’ll be pulling for us to win it all regardless of who’s the QB & head coach.

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9 hours ago, TomDiggs said:

I look at it like this:

 

If we really truly want to look at this through the prism of hindsight being 20:20, then most likely let's assume to top the Bears offer with them picking one spot earlier than us, let's assume we would have had to do a 2021 1 and 3 and a future 1 and 4 (to top the Bears' 2021 1 & 5 and future 1 & 4).

 

For simplicity sake I laid it out like this since we gave up a 2021 3rd and a 2022 1st (likely) for Wentz.

 

The question then becomes, would you right now trade:

 

Kwity Paye

Carson Wentz

2022 4th Rounder

 

For

 

Justin Fields 

 

???

 

 

When I lay it out like that, I would prefer what we have personally.

 

I could see some folks who really believe in Fields and really do not believe in Wentz as being OK w a trade like that, however.

 

Justin Fields for Wentz, Kwitty Paye, and a 2022 4th round draft pick?.....

YES....everyday and Sunday too!!!

A most likely Franchise QB/potentially Elite for 15 years...how can you turn that down? 

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In Ballard’s interview today, he discussed the fact the he didn’t want to trade down as he didn’t have enough information, and instead let the players come to him. I believe he felt similarly with trading up. And he might have come to that conclusion earlier when he decided it was worth it to get Wentz and not gamble too many picks away to get one of the 5 rookie QBs. 
 

It was a rough year to scout players, from limited contact during the college season to having no combine... Essentially, everyone is in the same boat in doing a little bit of guessing and hoping that their guys were the right guys. It also makes sense that Chris would look for some high character men, as that was something he could gather from their actions and interviews. 
 

I truly believe Chris feels that Carson is the best choice for the team right now. 

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2 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

Everyone knows I’ve been Team Fields from the jump.  So I’m taking the Fields deal every time over Wentz.  I even advocated for us to let the Bears take Wentz so we could pursue Fields.  How ironic that the opposite would play out...

 

I personally think Frank was the big reason for us letting Rivers walk and thus us getting Wentz.  That seems all the more certain by Frank & Carson sharing bible verses in the With the Next Pick video.  Honestly, I’d have rather brought Rivers back & still moved up for Fields & let him sit for a year. 
 

He could have played the Jacoby role (specialized packages) & got to learn the quick game from watching Rivers.  That ship has sailed now though and I’m praying that Frank & Carson can rediscover their mojo.  I have my doubts (I was even willing to part with Frank & let he & Carson do their reunion in Philly) but I’m a Colts fan, so I’ll be pulling for us to win it all regardless of who’s the QB & head coach.

 

I was for Wentz early, one of the first here. And knew if Eagles were foolishly getting rid of him, he would be more easily acquired than a Fields,Wilson etc... I think we lucked into getting  Wentz and he will be a good QB for us.

 

But I didn't think Fields, my favorite QB draftee would fall to 11.. and I would have been thrilled & excited if we moved up to get Fields.

 

It is what it is and be happy we have Wentz and not Brissett, Dalton, etc...

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11 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

Justin Fields for Wentz, Kwitty Paye, and a 2022 4th round draft pick?.....

YES....everyday and Sunday too!!!

A most likely Franchise QB/potentially Elite for 15 years...how can you turn that down? 

Again hindsight is 20:20 but essentially that is what the difference amounts to.

 

I truly believe it comes down to how folks evaluate Fields and Wentz. 

 

If someone loves Fields then that's the way it should go especially w his cheaper rookie contract.

 

If someone believes Wentz can be a top-15 QB again (not even the MVP 2017 version but just the Top-15 2018-2019 version) then a lot of times the idea of giving up a potential top-notch pass rusher along w another pick is hard to stomach.

 

I actually have some faith in Wentz so I am ok with what we did. Fields is awfully enticing though. I hope he works out well for Chicago and that more importantly Chicago works out well for him.

 

 

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2 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

Justin Fields for Wentz, Kwitty Paye, and a 2022 4th round draft pick?.....

YES....everyday and Sunday too!!!

A most likely Franchise QB/potentially Elite for 15 years...how can you turn that down? 

Animated GIF

 

Man i respect you. But I just have to say the talent gradient in college is so vast compared to the NFL. I Trust Ballard. It makes sense and no way in hell am i making that trade. Whatever happened to sitting a kid for a year? I mean you got a bag, buy in or gtho.

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On 5/5/2021 at 11:02 AM, Wentzszn said:

And what happens if the bears had beat us out for a trade up. Then the colts are stuck with no QB. He couldn’t wait around to see what happened in the draft. Like I said I take Wentz over fields any day anyway. He at least has proven he can be good.

 

After they got Wentz Reich did mention In a interview Thry had talked about how they were going to get their QB in a trade.

Eason would have started in that scenario 

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