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Doyel from indy star says we have spent the offseason getting worse


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Sadly I agree. You lose your starting left tackle and two very good dline man. These are important positions that we didn’t replace with good players. I know we drafted two Dline men but one needs time to develop and the other needs time to recover. So IMO the line play on both sides won’t be near as good, which is extremely important. Now two years from now we might be better if our two picks pan out. One thing that’s TBD is who is wentz? If he plays like he did three years ago, that’ll offset some. A lot of unknowns but on paper he’s correct. 

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23 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

Opinions are like as.......

Almost everyone has one :)

 

 


Wait…when you say ‘almost’ does that mean there are people without…..opinions?

 

How would they ….opinionate?

 

Reminds me of the old joke about the Allicrok.  He had a gator head on one end and crok head on the other end.  When people asked why he was so mean he said “you’d be mean too if you couldn’t take an …opinion.”   

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1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Lets go through this and see if he's right.

 

QB: We have Wentz instead of Rivers and gained Elhinger. Probably better here as long as Wentz is adequate.

RB: The same starters which is great, and a solid UDFA as well that can compete right away.

WR: Definitely better depth-wise and for competition. However, none of them are guaranteed to make the team. Also get Campbell back and have him play when he hasn't played before.

TE: Add Granson to the group and it's a bit better. Lost Burton, but that should be a even exchange this year and an upgrade year two and beyond if he does well.

OT: Got some depth in Tevi and Davenport, but lost Costanzo. Like the depth, but we are worse here.

OG: Added Chris Reed and Fries. Some better depth here this year.

C: We are still good here

 

DE: This is an interesting debate honestly. We lose Houston and Autry, but gain Rochell, Paye, and Dayo. I actually think we are worse this year, but will be better in year 2 and beyond. Paye will do well year 1, but probably not better than Autry or Houston would have done. Dayo is out most of the year most likely.

DT: Solid here, but probably slightly worse because of no Autry to play DT on situational downs

LB: We lose Walker and gain some UDFA guys and Skai Moore back. Definitely a bit of a downgrade right now. If Okereke or Leonard gets hurt, we are in trouble.

CB: Mostly the same except we get Tell back. So hopefully the group is a little better.

S: We signed the Sean and Shawn Davis guys lol, so I'm hoping for some quality depth. Blackmon and Willis are really good, so we'll see if they can grow this year.

 

K/P: Should see some growth from Blankenship and Rigberto is always good and hopefully can return at full health.

 

So we are mostly better. However, starting LT is much worse, the EDGE rushers may be worse in year 1, and LBer is a bit weaker without Walker. Other than that, we are the same or stronger IMO. Lets hope to fill in the rest of the holes in the 2nd wave of FA. :) 

Well done!

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The reality is... To a huge degree it will depend on Wentz. I think some of the most important positions got worse -LT, both EDGE positions possibly(at least for year 1). We got better at CB, TE. Overall I would say we are probably at about the same level,  with Wentz swinging it either way depending on how he pans out.

 

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2 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Lets go through this and see if he's right.

 

QB: We have Wentz instead of Rivers and gained Elhinger. Probably better here as long as Wentz is adequate.

RB: The same starters which is great, and a solid UDFA as well that can compete right away.

WR: Definitely better depth-wise and for competition. However, none of them are guaranteed to make the team. Also get Campbell back and have him play when he hasn't played before.

TE: Add Granson to the group and it's a bit better. Lost Burton, but that should be a even exchange this year and an upgrade year two and beyond if he does well.

OT: Got some depth in Tevi and Davenport, but lost Costanzo. Like the depth, but we are worse here.

OG: Added Chris Reed and Fries. Some better depth here this year.

C: We are still good here

 

DE: This is an interesting debate honestly. We lose Houston and Autry, but gain Rochell, Paye, and Dayo. I actually think we are worse this year, but will be better in year 2 and beyond. Paye will do well year 1, but probably not better than Autry or Houston would have done. Dayo is out most of the year most likely.

DT: Solid here, but probably slightly worse because of no Autry to play DT on situational downs

LB: We lose Walker and gain some UDFA guys and Skai Moore back. Definitely a bit of a downgrade right now. If Okereke or Leonard gets hurt, we are in trouble.

CB: Mostly the same except we get Tell back. So hopefully the group is a little better.

S: We signed the Sean and Shawn Davis guys lol, so I'm hoping for some quality depth. Blackmon and Willis are really good, so we'll see if they can grow this year.

 

K/P: Should see some growth from Blankenship and Rigberto is always good and hopefully can return at full health.

 

So we are mostly better. However, starting LT is much worse, the EDGE rushers may be worse in year 1, and LBer is a bit weaker without Walker. Other than that, we are the same or stronger IMO. Lets hope to fill in the rest of the holes in the 2nd wave of FA. :) 

That's a fair assessment.  Better at most position and worse at a couple.  

 

RB - I think we got much better.   Having Mack back with a ready Taylor will be better than last season when Taylor was learning the game.  

 

WR - I think we are much better here as well.  Pittman should be better than he was at the start of last season. Campbell looked real good in his one game last year.

 

 

 

 

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I dont think our defense will be any better than last year! The DLine still wont get enough push and our dbs/safeties will still give way too much cushion for wrs! All this, unless Eberflush changes his crap strategies!

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1 minute ago, Wentzszn said:

Ha Ha. The Indy morning show is trashing them too. Even Kevin Bowen. 

They will take some media blows this morning, there's no doubt.  It's just a natural thing when you didn't fill (arguably) your #1 need.  Or number 1.5 need. It's up to Ballard to mitigate the threat of someone impeding on Wentz' blind-side.  He's on high alert to be sure and I think he's up to the task of finding someone (outside of Tevi and company)

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Just now, chrisfarley said:

They will take some media blows this morning, there's no doubt.  It's just a natural thing when you didn't fill (arguably) your #1 need.  Or number 1.5 need. It's up to Ballard to mitigate the threat of someone impeding on Wentz' blind-side.  He's on high alert to be sure and I think he's up to the task of finding someone (outside of Tevi and company)

What I think is funny is you would think they don’t listen to Ballard at all. They are complaining we didn’t trade up for a tackle in the second. Ballard said Dayo was graded higher then the tackles that went ahead of us. Even Irsay said they weren’t taking any of those tackles if Dayo was there.

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5 minutes ago, IndyEric07 said:

I dont think our defense will be any better than last year! The DLine still wont get enough push and our dbs/safeties will still give way too much cushion for wrs! All this, unless Eberflush changes his crap strategies!

We god better on the dline. The question will be will they contribute right away or take a year to develop. Paye will contribute right away in the run game. We got younger and better. The secondary will be much better with a better pass rush. Sure there might be some growing pains but in the long run we got much better.

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2 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

What I think is funny is you would think they don’t listen to Ballard at all. They are complaining we didn’t trade up for a tackle in the second. Ballard said Dayo was graded higher then the tackles that went ahead of us. Even Irsay said they weren’t taking any of those tackles if Dayo was there.

Agree! Irsay said it was the 3rd and 4th round that got them, not the 1st and 2nd. After everything shakes out , 2022 will put the disgruntlements to bed IMO.  Fewer top draft picks, but we have scads of people to sign and retain.  Water will find its level.

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1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

He's now last in line when Ballard calls on reporters in press conferences.

Very well could be. I know nothing of Ballard's personality but did have the opportunity to see how politics works behind the scenes with management, players, and the media. It's been over 11 years since I've been around the team so maybe things are different. Under the Bill Polian regime if you ticked him off he absolutely could stick it to the reporter (no I was not in that industry) by denying interviews or simply making it hard to do their job. I got to see it first hand with the way some of the local Indy beat guys were treated shabby, but they pretty much kissed the ring for John Clayton of ESPN or Peter King of SI. 

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22 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

What I think is funny is you would think they don’t listen to Ballard at all. They are complaining we didn’t trade up for a tackle in the second. Ballard said Dayo was graded higher then the tackles that went ahead of us. Even Irsay said they weren’t taking any of those tackles if Dayo was there.

Which makes you think we could have taken a tackle with the 1st pick and Dayo would have most likely been there for our 2nd.  I would have liked that better.  Oh well.  Now on to plan C? For LT.

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 He is complaining about change in the NFL.
 We dumped some aging vets that got a number of team sacks but didn't get enough hits and hurries. Hopefully the comp picks for them help someday.
 It is possible that we will be a better overall pass rushing team THIS year.
Let them Play!!!
 Are we not with better depth on the o-line? LT we will see.
 The RB room is as good or better.
 Same with the WR group.
 TE should be about the same.
  Rivers had a very solid year, but relied so heavily on quick releases.
 Walker gets lots of love here but i saw what was almost a free 6-8 yards/first down when the opposing OC decided to exploit him. A gimme in pass situations. Not sure we can't meet or beat that with someone else. And that is made worse with Leonard also very exploitable in pass coverage.
Lace them up, each year is a new beginning!
 

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I'm not a fan of Greg Doyel anyhow. I'll always remember him for his post-game tantrum where he actually acted like a child whining on a post-game broadcast. He's about as doom and gloom as it gets, so this take tracks pretty well with his usual negativity.

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3 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Lets go through this and see if he's right.

 

QB: We have Wentz instead of Rivers and gained Elhinger. Probably better here as long as Wentz is adequate.

Not better, not worse.  Push

Quote

RB: The same starters which is great, and a solid UDFA as well that can compete right away.

No difference from last year.  Push, slight advantage to better.

Quote

WR: Definitely better depth-wise and for competition. However, none of them are guaranteed to make the team. Also get Campbell back and have him play when he hasn't played before.

Will the development of Campbell offset the decline of TY?  Push.

Quote

TE: Add Granson to the group and it's a bit better. Lost Burton, but that should be a even exchange this year and an upgrade year two and beyond if he does well.

Granson instead of Burton.  Younger stabilizes the future from further decline.  Immediate production, push.

Quote

OT: Got some depth in Tevi and Davenport, but lost Costanzo. Like the depth, but we are worse here.

Better backups, but the loss of AC with no replacement.  A lot worse.

Quote

OG: Added Chris Reed and Fries. Some better depth here this year.

Backup depth better than Pinter and Hunt?  Push.

Quote

C: We are still good here

Push

Quote

 

DE: This is an interesting debate honestly. We lose Houston and Autry, but gain Rochell, Paye, and Dayo. I actually think we are worse this year, but will be better in year 2 and beyond. Paye will do well year 1, but probably not better than Autry or Houston would have done. Dayo is out most of the year most likely.

Got younger which prevent future decline.  Will Paye and Dayo be better than Autry Houston soon?  Push

Quote

DT: Solid here, but probably slightly worse because of no Autry to play DT on situational downs

Lewis instead of Autry.  Worse.   Dayo in for Autry. Push for the time being.

Quote

LB: We lose Walker and gain some UDFA guys and Skai Moore back. Definitely a bit of a downgrade right now. If Okereke or Leonard gets hurt, we are in trouble.

Worse

Quote

CB: Mostly the same except we get Tell back. So hopefully the group is a little better.

Got better, but its not because of the draft.

Quote

S: We signed the Sean and Shawn Davis guys lol, so I'm hoping for some quality depth. Blackmon and Willis are really good, so we'll see if they can grow this year.

Added the 3rd safety we didn't have....a true zone FS.  Better.

Quote

 

 

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They'd have to play a game for us to have an idea.

On paper, if Wentz plays well, the team is better. If he's the guy he was last year and LT and DE's don't show up, they're worse and noticeably so.

 

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3 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Lets go through this and see if he's right.

 

QB: We have Wentz instead of Rivers and gained Elhinger. Probably better here as long as Wentz is adequate.

RB: The same starters which is great, and a solid UDFA as well that can compete right away.

WR: Definitely better depth-wise and for competition. However, none of them are guaranteed to make the team. Also get Campbell back and have him play when he hasn't played before.

TE: Add Granson to the group and it's a bit better. Lost Burton, but that should be a even exchange this year and an upgrade year two and beyond if he does well.

OT: Got some depth in Tevi and Davenport, but lost Costanzo. Like the depth, but we are worse here.

OG: Added Chris Reed and Fries. Some better depth here this year.

C: We are still good here

 

DE: This is an interesting debate honestly. We lose Houston and Autry, but gain Rochell, Paye, and Dayo. I actually think we are worse this year, but will be better in year 2 and beyond. Paye will do well year 1, but probably not better than Autry or Houston would have done. Dayo is out most of the year most likely.

DT: Solid here, but probably slightly worse because of no Autry to play DT on situational downs

LB: We lose Walker and gain some UDFA guys and Skai Moore back. Definitely a bit of a downgrade right now. If Okereke or Leonard gets hurt, we are in trouble.

CB: Mostly the same except we get Tell back. So hopefully the group is a little better.

S: We signed the Sean and Shawn Davis guys lol, so I'm hoping for some quality depth. Blackmon and Willis are really good, so we'll see if they can grow this year.

 

K/P: Should see some growth from Blankenship and Rigberto is always good and hopefully can return at full health.

 

So we are mostly better. However, starting LT is much worse, the EDGE rushers may be worse in year 1, and LBer is a bit weaker without Walker. Other than that, we are the same or stronger IMO. Lets hope to fill in the rest of the holes in the 2nd wave of FA. :) 

Dayo is projected back in September/October, not most of the year. There will be a process of easing him back in but he won’t be out for most of the year. 

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42 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 He is complaining about change in the NFL.
 We dumped some aging vets that got a number of team sacks but didn't get enough hits and hurries. Hopefully the comp picks for them help someday.
 It is possible that we will be a better overall pass rushing team THIS year.
Let them Play!!!
 Are we not with better depth on the o-line? LT we will see.
 The RB room is as good or better.
 Same with the WR group.
 TE should be about the same.
  Rivers had a very solid year, but relied so heavily on quick releases.
 Walker gets lots of love here but i saw what was almost a free 6-8 yards/first down when the opposing OC decided to exploit him. A gimme in pass situations. Not sure we can't meet or beat that with someone else. And that is made worse with Leonard also very exploitable in pass coverage.
Lace them up, each year is a new beginning!
 

 

Yeah none of the local media guys seem to recognize that the team can and likely will get better from the improvement in the young players...guys like Pittman, Taylor, Blackmon, Willis, and Okereke. 

 

The depth at LT is certainly better. While losing AC sucked we also don't need to have an All-Pro level guy at every spot on the OL. With the other guys on that line they need the 5th guy to not be a liability. That might be Tevi or Holden at LT or it could involve moving Nelson or Smith to LT. They can still sign a veteran and I think that is their plan but even if they don't I don't think the LT spot will be an issue.

 

Wentz has the potential to make this offense more explosive as well. I didn't look at that trade and think it was a no brainer decision by any means. What I'll say about Wentz is only Ballard/Reich had the info to know whether that was a good bet to make. If they feel good about trading for Wentz then I am optimistic that it will work out. Time will tell though.

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I don’t get the luck line comparisons as overall the line is great.  LT is a weak spot but they have three great guys on the line including at LG.  I think they’ll be OK

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38 minutes ago, ar7 said:

 

Yeah none of the local media guys seem to recognize that the team can and likely will get better from the improvement in the young players...guys like Pittman, Taylor, Blackmon, Willis, and Okereke. 

 

Not aimed at you personally but you mention a point I keep hearing a lot that is very overstated IMO; the players on this roster will get better. Doesn't that apply to every team and their players?

 

The first three games this year are Arizona, Baltimore and Buffalo. Two of those 3 teams we're better than the Colts last year. Should we assume Kyler and Isiah Simmons are finished products? Dobbins and DuVernay reached maximum potential their rookie years and wont improve this offseason? Allen, Singeltary and White will regress this season?

 

The Colts aren't the only team with young talented players and a coaching staff. 

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I should also add in FA they added:

Bills signed Emanuel Sanders and Matt Breida 

Cardinals added JJ Watt, AJ Green, James Connor and Malcom Bulter

Ravens added Zeitler and Wakins.


We had better hope none of the young players on these 3 teams get any better.

 

Before the response it 'we have to sign our own players' tell me how the Bucs and Chiefs are adding talent and signing their own players (best in the league players in many cases both drafted and free agents). Sure the Chiefs drafted an all world QB but the Bucs didn't and they both have rosters packed with elite drafted players and free agents. 

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20 minutes ago, Mitch Connors said:

Not aimed at you personally but you mention a point I keep hearing a lot that is very overstated IMO; the players on this roster will get better. Doesn't that apply to every team and their players?

 

The first three games this year are Arizona, Baltimore and Buffalo. Two of those 3 teams we're better than the Colts last year. Should we assume Kyler and Isiah Simmons are finished products? Dobbins and DuVernay reached maximum potential their rookie years and wont improve this offseason? Allen, Singeltary and White will regress this season?

 

The Colts aren't the only team with young talented players and a coaching staff. 

When talking about whether the Colts got better or worse at each position, I think players improvement can be used.   Taylor has some growing pains last year and should start this season even better.   Having Mack back will be nice too.  

 

Now you are correct if we are comparing teams though.  

 

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31 minutes ago, Mitch Connors said:

Not aimed at you personally but you mention a point I keep hearing a lot that is very overstated IMO; the players on this roster will get better. Doesn't that apply to every team and their players?

 

The first three games this year are Arizona, Baltimore and Buffalo. Two of those 3 teams we're better than the Colts last year. Should we assume Kyler and Isiah Simmons are finished products? Dobbins and DuVernay reached maximum potential their rookie years and wont improve this offseason? Allen, Singeltary and White will regress this season?

 

The Colts aren't the only team with young talented players and a coaching staff. 

 

It is true that other teams have young players who will improve. However, I would be surprised if the Colts don't have the most or close to it in terms of guys who have already played meaningful snaps and been productive. 

 

In your next post you mentioned several free agents these teams signed. However, I don't think any of these guys are making their team significantly better. Maybe Watt can but I don't think most of the other guys are keeping coordinators up at night to game plan around. They are good players but what matters the most is who your top 5-7 players are. 

 

Regarding how other teams signed free agents it comes down to how you manage the cap. The Colts tend to give our roster bonuses over signing bonuses. The roster bonus doesn't get prorated over the length of the contract. (unlike a signing bonus) Someone once described the Colts philosophy on this as using cash over credit and I think that's a good way to describe it.

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56 minutes ago, Mitch Connors said:

Not aimed at you personally but you mention a point I keep hearing a lot that is very overstated IMO; the players on this roster will get better. Doesn't that apply to every team and their players?

 

The first three games this year are Arizona, Baltimore and Buffalo. Two of those 3 teams we're better than the Colts last year. Should we assume Kyler and Isiah Simmons are finished products? Dobbins and DuVernay reached maximum potential their rookie years and wont improve this offseason? Allen, Singeltary and White will regress this season?

 

The Colts aren't the only team with young talented players and a coaching staff. 


The NFL schedule hasn’t even been released yet for you to say those are the Colts opening three games...

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I can't read the article because of the paywall, so I am not sure what his arguments are, but below are mine.

 

Disclaimer: Even though I am not a Doyel fan, I am going to actually agree (to a degree) that his overall premise could be correct. Or better yet...that it was a lateral offseason with more likely risk than likely reward.

 

Going into this offseason, the Colts had gone 11-5 last season against the league's lowest SOS...including 1-5 against AFC playoff teams (after losing to BUF on WC weekend). 

 

During this offseason the Colts "lost" the following key players:

 

Phillip Rivers, QB1 (retired)

Anthony Costanzo, OT (retired)

Justin Houston, ER (FA)

Denico Autry, DE/DT (FA)

Trey Burton, TE/H-Back (FA)

Malik Hooker, S (FA)

Jacoby Brissett, QB2 (FA)

Anthony Walker, MLB (FA)

 

*Hilton is also likely on this list if not for Irsay stepping in. But he's still here for another year.

 

The major move they made was a trade for Carson Wentz. This has been rehashed over and over...but the fact remains that he is coming off a disastrous season. And while Rivers was a statue at his age, he still gave the Colts a top 10-15 performance at QB last year (albeit against by far the league's easiest SOS on offense).

 

Wentz could be better, but in his career, he has only surpassed that level of play once (2017). He did play with Reich that year...but that was four seasons ago and was one 12-game sample out of a 5-year career. So expecting anything more than a lateral performance at QB is probably too much. And given the season he just had, there is a chance they don't even get that. 

 

In FA prior to the draft, despite having top 5 cap space, the Colts did not replace/improve any of those other outgoing players. Instead, they tendered their current RFAs and invested in cheaper depth for the OL (OT and G) and DL (DE). That's not to say depth isn't important to have...it is. But it doesn't really help an 11-win team take a step forward...which is the premise here.

 

In the draft, they did replace many of those outgoing players. Drafting always has risk, but expecting these players to fill immediate needs on next year's team is especially a gamble. 

 

Ultimately, the offseason looks something like this:

 

Phillip Rivers, QB1 (retired)   Carson Wentz

Anthony Costanzo, OT (retired)   ???

Justin Houston, ER (FA)   Kwity Paye

Denico Autry, DE/DT (FA)   Dayo Odeyingbo 

Trey Burton, TE/H-Back (FA)   Kyler Granson 

Malik Hooker, S (FA)   Shawn/Sean Davis

Jacoby Brissett, QB2 (FA)   Jacob Eason or Sam Ehlinger

Anthony Walker, MLB (FA)   ???

 

Now there is definitely upside in these players for the future, and the Colts could definitely be a better team at some point in the future, but where can we definitely say this team improved for next season?

 

Especially when you consider...they added no immediate weapons for Wentz and the WR room that hasn't improved; there are still big question marks at LT (which could be taken care of shortly...or not); and question marks at LB depth and potentially even CB.

 

I know it's hard to impossible to address everything in one offseason, but I also don't think it's unfair to not be enamored with this offseason, given the expectations of this team.

 

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2 hours ago, Shive said:

I'm not a fan of Greg Doyel anyhow. I'll always remember him for his post-game tantrum where he actually acted like a child whining on a post-game broadcast. He's about as doom and gloom as it gets, so this take tracks pretty well with his usual negativity.

Agreed.  Its always been annoying but that gets old. now its old and annoying.  hmmm sounds like me.  hahaha

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I don't care what Doyel says. How does he know the team has gotten worse if they haven't played yet? A lot of this depends on how well Carson Wentz does. If he can play well, and the team can avoid injuries, things will fall into place IMO. 

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