Colts select Kwity Paye DE

[ColtsBlueFL]

6 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Freeney had a 4.4 forty if I remember right. But that is an insane 3-cone number, even if it is 6.67 adding 0.3 seconds, it is good for any WR.  What he loses to Freeney in speed, he might gain in quickness. Ultimately, his ability to finish and pass rush moves will determine the success of this pick.

 

4.48 for Dwight. Paye was supposedly had a 4.54 (and a hand timed 4.52 at Pro day).  Freeney 28 bench reps, Paye had 36.

[Myles]

1 hour ago, The Fish said:

Here's my thing.

Nothing he does is terribly special beyond being quick(ish) from what I've looked at. Autry was a FA on a modest contract and that's the comp for Paye as a first rounder? I hope this works, but there's a chance Paye doesn't live up to the draft status. 

You can input anyone's name you was drafted last night into this statement.  

[throwing BBZ]

13 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

Depending how it goes with the rest of this first round and early tomorrow we may even trade up tomorrow. I think we would all be happy getting a edge and tackle. The test is just gravy.

 

 CB will more likely trade back. If he could get a mid 3rd & 4th he would be estatic IMO. 

[BlueShoe]

My only issue with Paye is, he plays more like a DT. While he will Absolutely be tremendous in the run game, he is just not there with pass rushing. He’s got great bend, but he doesn’t get home enough. He has a good first step, but it hasn’t produced in wins. He can get off blocks to defend the run, but something is just not clicking when he rushes upfield.

 

He was a beast from the inside. I compared him to Tyquan Lewis. He is very similar, just a little lighter. And I do believe he is a little more explosive. We are certainly seeing the type that Ballard is looking for. He wants the Justin Houston frame.

 

It’s nice to have these players that can play inside and out, but eventually we are going to need some closers. We need some 9 technique pass rushers, and we just don’t have anyone on this team who can do that. Maybe... we give Shaka or Koonce a hard look on Day 3. 
 

We have to be able to get after the quarterback. Can Paye develop into that player? Possibly. But he hasn’t done it yet, and now the competition is going to get tougher. I will be rooting for him to succeed; as he is one of us now. He has some traits to work with. Hopefully he can put it all together. 

[richard pallo]

28 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

I saw Werner play live at Jacksonville. He could bust through and that day he chased Henne and Bortles all day, but he was always just a half step or so away from finishing the play. Thus they (especially Bortles) could elude and make a play.  Werner and Paye have significantly different measurables-

 

Werner explosion number   67  (=> 70 is good)   4.83 forty yard dash, and 7.30 three cone

Paye     explosion number   81+  ( wowza!)          4.54 forty, and an insane 6.37 three cone!!

 

It's the coaches job to take Payes notable physical advantages and convert them to on field production.  I feel we may have a 3 down DE as well, not a rotational situation guy.

 

 

I think he will definitely be a three down player.  This young man has drive and wants to get better.  I bet it doesn’t take him long.

[Four2itus]

21 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

Man, the arms on Paye.

 

9 hours ago, Four2itus said:

 

[krunk]

I bet Paye reminded Ballard of Tamba Hali.

[Myles]

Nearly all the mock drafts had him going earlier than 21.  

The pick is rated an "A" by almost all site I have seen.

 

21. Indianapolis Colts: Kwity Paye, EDGE, Michigan

Grade: A

The Colts were tied to offensive tackles in the wake of Anthony Castonzo’s retirement for a long time but filled another key need early. Paye, an ideal outside-inside pass rusher who’s a great fit for their 4-3, combines freakish size and athleticism with high effort. Matt Eberflus will love his disruptive ability from different spots.

22. Tennessee Titans: Caleb Farley, CB, Virginia

[ColtStrong2013]

Just now, krunk said:

I bet Paye reminded Ballard of Tamba Hali.

Hope for similar play.

[MikeCurtis]

2 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

 

Of course the hype train is already out of the station. 

Count me on that Train

 

Not HOF, Pro Bowl, or really anything yet

 

Just an EXCELLENT prospect 

A kid with amazing physical attributes and raw talent

 

And..... a great attitude to put it all together

 

 

[DougDew]

6 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

My only issue with Paye is, he plays more like a DT. While he will Absolutely be tremendous in the run game, he is just not there with pass rushing. He’s got great bend, but he doesn’t get home enough. He has a good first step, but it hasn’t produced in wins. He can get off blocks to defend the run, but something is just not clicking when he rushes upfield.

 

He was a beast from the inside. I compared him to Tyquan Lewis. He is very similar, just a little lighter. And I do believe he is a little more explosive. We are certainly seeing the type that Ballard is looking for. He wants the Justin Houston frame.

 

It’s nice to have these players that can play inside and out, but eventually we are going to need some closers. We need some 9 technique pass rushers, and we just don’t have anyone on this team who can do that. Maybe... we give Shaka or Koonce a hard look on Day 3. 
 

We have to be able to get after the quarterback. Can Paye develop into that player? Possibly. But he hasn’t done it yet, and now the competition is going to get tougher. I will be rooting for him to succeed; as he is one of us now. He has some traits to work with. Hopefully he can put it all together. 

Agreed.  He's more of an edge setter, then an inside pass rusher.  At only 22, I expect him to fill out still and get heavier.  He's a first round pick because he has to play immediately to make up for the loss of Autry, and he will factor heavily into the Colts offering Lewis much of a contract.  But I'm not so sure that the non elite edge pass rusher couldn't be found in the 2nd round.

 

We may very well double up.  Get the pure pass rusher, as a rotational player, in round 4 or 5.

[ColtStrong2013]

19 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

really? I see them starting opposite each other... Ballard has talked him up a lot as of late. Doesn’t sound like a role player. 

matter of fact, I would go as far as saying I guarantee they start opposite to begin the season. 
 

Lewis, Stewart, Buckner and Paye 

 

Muhammad, Turay and Banagou as the main rotation at end with Lewis kicking inside on passing downs. 

[jvan1973]

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

I bet Paye reminded Ballard of Tamba Hali.

Tamba drafted at 20

 

Paye at 21

 

Very similar size,   both of Liberian heritage 

[BlueShoe]

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Agreed.  He's an edge setter, then an inside pass rusher.  At only 22, I expect him to fill out still and get heavier.  He's a first round pick because he has to play immediately to make up for the loss of Autry, and he will factor heavily into the Colts offering Lewis much of a contract.  But I'm not so sure that the non elite edge pass rusher couldn't be found in the 2nd round.

 

We may very well double up.  Get the pure pass rusher, as a rotational player, in round 4 or 5.

That’s what I’m hoping we do too. Depending on how the board falls, but it should favor us with grabbing an OT at 54.... I think Day 3, we should go right back to the well and get that 9 technique, if one is available. And then I’d also double-down on another offensive lineman. I would be happy if we only addressed the OL and front seven in this entire draft. If we can get a TE then that’d be good too. Maybe Tremble lasts... Not likely though. 

[MikeCurtis]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

We may very well double up.  Get the pure pass rusher, as a rotational player, in round 4 or 5.

I wouldnt disagree with this, but it really is gated by what the team feels about Banagu

 

A pick of the too light, really fast guy that you can add muscle to would seem to be apealing

 

We will see

 

We do need to get a developmental TE, CB, S, LB in rounds 4,5,6,7

[Les Poulains]

I don't really see why people would be surprised with the pick. Edge guys who lack a bit of production being picked in the 20's is pretty standard. That's why most times they don't go higher, but you have numerous success stories of "traits" guys picked in the 20's with lower college production who become studs. Cam Jordan and Chandler Jones off the top of my head are great examples. Paye is also well placed to improve because he has the motor and seemingly the character to match his freakish athleticism. 

 

I also think Ballard's explanation of why not pick a tackle there made sense. Most of them aren't prototypical left tackles, so we'd have likely needed to move whoever we took there and it may have been uncomfortable. I think even Darrisaw was seen as a right tackle initially because he didn't have much experience pass protecting. We just better have a solid plan there, to be fair, but I'm fine with the logic part of it up to now. 

[chad72]

14 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

My only issue with Paye is, he plays more like a DT. While he will Absolutely be tremendous in the run game, he is just not there with pass rushing. He’s got great bend, but he doesn’t get home enough. He has a good first step, but it hasn’t produced in wins. He can get off blocks to defend the run, but something is just not clicking when he rushes upfield.

 

He was a beast from the inside. I compared him to Tyquan Lewis. He is very similar, just a little lighter. And I do believe he is a little more explosive. We are certainly seeing the type that Ballard is looking for. He wants the Justin Houston frame.

 

It’s nice to have these players that can play inside and out, but eventually we are going to need some closers. We need some 9 technique pass rushers, and we just don’t have anyone on this team who can do that. Maybe... we give Shaka or Koonce a hard look on Day 3. 
 

We have to be able to get after the quarterback. Can Paye develop into that player? Possibly. But he hasn’t done it yet, and now the competition is going to get tougher. I will be rooting for him to succeed; as he is one of us now. He has some traits to work with. Hopefully he can put it all together. 

 

Shaka Toney seemed like a better closer than Oweh when I watched, just my opinion, of course.

 

I do think the NFL will evolve into more situational pass rushers used being drafted on Day 2 and if we can rotate guys like Turay and AQM and Lewis and Banogu on passing downs, whoever is left standing , you need an edge setter that has a high floor on the other side that we hope will improve his pass rush moves with time. Like you said, Justin Houston was the body type Ballard was looking for.

 

Guys like Everson Griffen, Olivier Vernon were a bit less heralded but gained enough pass rush moves over time to get 80 plus and 60 plus sacks over their careers. The hope is the same happens with Paye and the upside of the pick is coached up to finish plays.

[Colt Overseas]

1 minute ago, BlueShoe said:

That’s what I’m hoping we do too. Depending on how the board falls, but it should favor us with grabbing an OT at 54.... I think Day 3, we should go right back to the well and get that 9 technique, if one is available. And then I’d also double-down on another offensive lineman. I would be happy if we only addressed the OL and front seven in this entire draft. If we can get a TE then that’d be good too. Maybe Tremble lasts... Not likely though. 

 

I think we should look to develop Paye as the 9T. He has similar type traits like Frank Clark and Carl Lawson.

 

Maximising Paye's strengths, bend and explosiveness, he should play the RDE 9T on this defense.

[chad72]

2 minutes ago, Colt Overseas said:

 

I think we should look to develop Paye as the 9T. He has similar type traits like Frank Clark and Carl Lawson.

 

Maximising Paye's strengths, bend and explosiveness, he should play the RDE 9T on this defense.

 

...ala Jim Johnson Eagles' D style.  

[Fluke_33]

I like him but to temper excitement, here is polian's view of him (the name mike mamula comes up  )

 

He is discussed at the 66 min mark

https://podtail.com/podcast/inside-football-podcast-with-bill-polian/2021-nfl-draft-review-ol-dl-and-edge/

 

[Dogg63]

I'm excited about Paye!

 

Not sure if this was posted earlier in the thread, if it was I missed it. Here's his 3-cone drill that amazed everyone.

 

 

[MikeCurtis]

4 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Shaka Toney seemed like a better closer than Oweh when I watched, just my opinion, of course.

 

 

Toney is a talent that needs 20 lbs of NFL muscle and training to be an impact

 

He is very fast, could be special teams, while the build muscle on him, to see if he could play 

[chad72]

4 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Toney is a talent that needs 20 lbs of NFL muscle and training to be an impact

 

He is very fast, could be special teams, while the build muscle on him, to see if he could play 

 

Yeah, definitely only a 3rd down pass rusher. Robert Mathis played special teams during the SB winning year, if I remember right, Raheem Brock was still setting the edge across Freeney. So, I am fine with bringing him along over a couple of years as he puts on muscle without losing speed.

[Dogg63]

And here, Baldy breaks down Kwity Paye:

 

 

Enjoy!!

[chad72]

15 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

I like him but to temper excitement, here is polian's view of him (the name mike mamula comes up  )

 

He is discussed at the 66 min mark

https://podtail.com/podcast/inside-football-podcast-with-bill-polian/2021-nfl-draft-review-ol-dl-and-edge/

 

 

At this point, is Polian doing the hard grind that NFL GMs are doing? Probably not. 

 

While his opinion holds a lot more weight than the armchair GMs and scouts, it almost felt like while discussing prospects, he is going based on stats provided in front of him and it is practically impossible for him to have the comprehensive overall valuation that NFL GMs get to discuss with their scouts. In other words, he is a bit of an outsider and I wouldn't just lose sleep over him giving a negative assessment on someone. He brings up valid points as much as a lot of other ex-GMs or ex-players that were respected at one time, so I will take it and leave it at that. 

[DougDew]

14 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

That’s what I’m hoping we do too. Depending on how the board falls, but it should favor us with grabbing an OT at 54.... I think Day 3, we should go right back to the well and get that 9 technique, if one is available. And then I’d also double-down on another offensive lineman. I would be happy if we only addressed the OL and front seven in this entire draft. If we can get a TE then that’d be good too. Maybe Tremble lasts... Not likely though. 

With the signing of the OTs so far, I think we have enough backups.  I'd like to find a G/T swing or a C/G in round 6, 7, or UDFA.  With Pinter and Hunt on board and the OTs, I don't think we have to devote very much more capital this draft beyond LT.

 

[shasta519]

21 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Count me on that Train

 

Not HOF, Pro Bowl, or really anything yet

 

Just an EXCELLENT prospect 

A kid with amazing physical attributes and raw talent

 

And..... a great attitude to put it all together

 

 

Same here. But I won’t act like he is the savior to the DL. Was listening to a podcast, they are saying he could be a 10+ sack guy as a rookie. He had 11 in his college career.

 

Very good prospect (he was a 1st round pick after all)...but let’s set proper expectations.

 

If he comes out next season and puts up  5-6 sacks and is disruptive...sign me up for that.

[BlueShoe]

30 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Shaka Toney seemed like a better closer than Oweh when I watched, just my opinion, of course.

 

I do think the NFL will evolve into more situational pass rushers used being drafted on Day 2 and if we can rotate guys like Turay and AQM and Lewis and Banogu on passing downs, whoever is left standing , you need an edge setter that has a high floor on the other side that we hope will improve his pass rush moves with time. Like you said, Justin Houston was the body type Ballard was looking for.

 

Guys like Everson Griffen, Olivier Vernon were a bit less heralded but gained enough pass rush moves over time to get 80 plus and 60 plus sacks over their careers. The hope is the same happens with Paye and the upside of the pick is coached up to finish plays.

Honestly, Oweh probably wouldn’t be on my board until Day 3. He reminds me too much of Ziggy Ansah. Hasn’t played football long... I do think he ended up in a good spot. If any team can help him reach his true potential, it’s the Ravens. 
 

If I was a GM then I’d always take the player who helped my team the most. I don’t buy into specific players being taken in certain rounds. I’d take Barry Sanders or Big Q number 1 overall, if they were the best players on the board, and they helped my team win football games. 
 

We need some closers! If we keep lining up DT’s all across the line then we will never get after the QB. Turay is our most gifted edge rusher right now. We have a lot of guys who can stop the run though. 

[BlueShoe]

16 minutes ago, Colt Overseas said:

 

I think we should look to develop Paye as the 9T. He has similar type traits like Frank Clark and Carl Lawson.

 

Maximising Paye's strengths, bend and explosiveness, he should play the RDE 9T on this defense.

From listening to him talk after being drafted, I think the Colts told him he’s going to mostly play RDE. That said, I’m not sure the Colts have even placed an emphasis on pass rushing. It’s kind of disheartening. They seemed more concerned with stopping the run and playing coverage. Buckner leading this team in sacks won’t translate to post season wins. 
 

This is the first time since Ballard has been here, that I don’t agree with his vision. Everything else he has done has made sense. I’ll be rooting for Paye, but I don’t think he is a good fit for us. If he develops into a pass rusher then that’d be great, but those signs weren’t there in college. He has all the traits, but hasn’t done it. 

[MikeCurtis]

28 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

I like him but to temper excitement, here is polian's view of him (the name mike mamula comes up  )

 

He is discussed at the 66 min mark

https://podtail.com/podcast/inside-football-podcast-with-bill-polian/2021-nfl-draft-review-ol-dl-and-edge/

 

 

 

Polian was consistently great as a talent evaluator (Except for a blind spot for his son, who he tried to pass off as talented) , but sounded rough on the interview, as in clarity of thought rough

 

He is 78 years old.....  so some decline is probable

 

He clearly didnt know that Paye only played in a few games this year, and had no idea that he had and TFL

 

I didnt much much stock in it.... its another opinion

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, DougDew said:

He had Darrisaw ranked 17, and many mocks didn't expect Darrisaw to be at 21 either.  I'm disappointed that we had to stay at 21 and pick either one of them, so considering we had to, Paye is fine if we had to pick.

 

But Ballard confirmed my thoughts about the LTs at his Paye presser, that there really aren't very many prototypical LTs in this draft, which is what I was saying.  Its overrated.  They didn't drop because there are so many, they dropped because they are not that good.  Leatherwood, whom I liked, was drafted 17 before we had a chance.

 

So the comments that seem cheery about getting a OT at 54 seem overenthusiastic to me.

 

Ballard said that he could definitely go in another direction at 54.  Might be smoke.  But at this point, I'd prefer a trade down to get a third rounder then trade either the second or third to SF for McGlinchy.....since either way we're not getting a prototypical LT.  Sf has pick 43, that would be a nice slot for them to draft their replacement RT.

We won’t trade down far enough to get a 3.   If we drop 7-10 spots we’d get a 4.   I don’t see Ballard trading down further than that.  
last year, when we dropped 10 spots to take Blackmon, we got a 5 and a 6. 
 

As for Leatherwood, he’s widely being called the worst pick of the first round by pretty much everyone.  ESPN, NFL Network and PFF. 
 

As for prototypical, we will soon find out how much that matters.  If Cosmi and Little are there, and we pass on them for Brown, that will answer our questions.  But if we take someone who is sub-34, that will tell us something too. 

[NewColtsFan]

20 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

Same here. But I won’t act like he is the savior to the DL. Was listening to a podcast, they are saying he could be a 10+ sack guy as a rookie. He had 11 in his college career.

 

Very good prospect (he was a 1st round pick after all)...but let’s set proper expectations.

 

If he comes out next season and puts up  5-6 sacks and is disruptive...sign me up for that.

I’d be happy if Paye gives us 6-8 sacks his first year.    And yes to the disruptive as well. 

[Colt Overseas]

11 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

From listening to him talk after being drafted, I think the Colts told him he’s going to mostly play RDE. That said, I’m not sure the Colts have even placed an emphasis on pass rushing. It’s kind of disheartening. They seemed more concerned with stopping the run and playing coverage. Buckner leading this team in sacks won’t translate to post season wins. 
 

This is the first time since Ballard has been here, that I don’t agree with his vision. Everything else he has done has made sense. I’ll be rooting for Paye, but I don’t think he is a good fit for us. If he develops into a pass rusher then that’d be great, but those signs weren’t there in college. He has all the traits, but hasn’t done it. 

I take your point. I guess it’s tough getting those high end pass rushers without paying €15m/y or a top 10 pick. I’m hopeful Paye can develop into a top pass rusher. 

[BlueShoe]

7 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

 

 

Polian was consistently great as a talent evaluator (Except for a blind spot for his son, who he tried to pass off as talented) , but sounded rough on the interview, as in clarity of thought rough

 

He is 78 years old.....  so some decline is probable

 

He clearly didnt know that Paye only played in a few games this year, and had no idea that he had and TFL

 

I didnt much much stock in it.... its another opinion

I think Polian nailed it. 
 

Let’s hope that both of us are very wrong. 

[ClaytonColt]

I like this pick and love Paye's place in this team.

 

Just seems likes a Colts kinda guy and you can't help but pull for him. Hope he causes absolute chaos! 

[BlueShoe]

8 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

As for Leatherwood, he’s widely being called the worst pick of the first round by pretty much everyone.  ESPN, NFL Network and PFF. 

The Raiders suck at drafting. Mike Mayock and Gruden do not belong in a draft room together. They’d be better off spinning a wheel and throwing darts at a board. Probably would have more success.  

[DougDew]

18 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

We won’t trade down far enough to get a 3.   If we drop 7-10 spots we’d get a 4.   I don’t see Ballard trading down further than that.  
last year, when we dropped 10 spots to take Blackmon, we got a 5 and a 6. 
 

As for Leatherwood, he’s widely being called the worst pick of the first round by pretty much everyone.  ESPN, NFL Network and PFF. 
 

As for prototypical, we will soon find out how much that matters.  If Cosmi and Little are there, and we pass on them for Brown, that will answer our questions.  But if we take someone who is sub-34, that will tell us something too. 

I think Leatherwood must have done something off putting at the Senior Bowl.  His tape is good and he won the outland trophy, so the college evaluators must have liked him.   

 

I don't think there was any hype around him....he was sort of forgotten about....so the graders could be covering their tracks by criticizing Mayock because the pick stood out has an outlier relative to their rankings rather than just admitting their rankings were just a bunch of cut and pasting of other peoples work.  

 

Have no idea.  It was just weird that a guy with good tape, good RAS, good measurables and won the Outland by actually playing LT was disregarded as a nobody when Tevin Jenkins was talked up like the next Nelson at times.  

[Superman]

I like the pick. I didn't expect Paye or Darrisaw to be there at #21. If I gave you a list of names that the Colts would probably pick rather than trade back, both of those guys would be on it. Really interesting the way the board fell, and fortuitous for us (and the Vikings). 

 

I think Paye is raw and needs to refine some pass rush moves, but he's super toolsy, twitchy, and has great motor. He has really good traits. We'll see how he comes along for us.

[Fluke_33]

29 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

At this point, is Polian doing the hard grind that NFL GMs are doing? Probably not. 

 

While his opinion holds a lot more weight than the armchair GMs and scouts, it almost felt like while discussing prospects, he is going based on stats provided in front of him and it is practically impossible for him to have the comprehensive overall valuation that NFL GMs get to discuss with their scouts. In other words, he is a bit of an outsider and I wouldn't just lose sleep over him giving a negative assessment on someone. He brings up valid points as much as a lot of other ex-GMs or ex-players that were respected at one time, so I will take it and leave it at that. 

Agreed on the hard grind.  And he does too.  He actually states in at the begining of a lot of his reviews or beginning of his podcasts that he no longer has the info that the GMs have.  But he is head and shoulders above the likes of Kiper, etc.  I trust his opinion much more then them.  But i trust ballards opinion much more than his!  lol.

 

Just wanted to put out someone elses opinion so we all have a fully informed view. 

[The Fish]

1 hour ago, Myles said:

You can input anyone's name you was drafted last night into this statement.  

 

Yea