Left Tackle(Leno,Fisher,Okung?)/Sam Tevi at LT (MERGE)

[ColtStrong2013]

1 hour ago, austriancolt said:

I mentioned it in another thread. I hope everything turns out great for the Colts but if Wentz get hurt or the Offensive Line starts to struggle because they did nothing with the Tackle position this will blow up in Ballards face. And rightly so. I think its a risk relying on guys like Davenport or Tevi to make a huge step forward or some other project to pan out. 

I don’t disagree it’s a risk. So is not having a pass rush. I’m not sure it’s a risk relying on Davenport or Tevi to make a step forward, because they most definitely will under this offense and next to Quenton Nelson/one of the top offensive lines otherwise in the league. As Kevin Mawae said, “ the biggest goal of any organization is to make sure you have the best five guys available that work the best together.” We don’t need a superstar at left tackle. We don’t need Anthony Castonzo. We need a capable player that works well with the other studs on the line and with Wentz/Reich and stays healthy and available. 

[cbear]

1 hour ago, John Waylon said:

What happens when you don’t take good care of your QB?

 

But anyways, yeah. 
 

Can’t figure out why anyone would have doubts about not having a quality starter at the most important position on the offensive line. How silly, amirite?
 

 

If the season was starting tomorrow, I'd be right there panicking with you. 

[PureLuck]

From Irsay's comments on being sniped in rounds 4 and 5, I believe they really liked Tommy Doyle, but didn't want to trade up (very few picks even without trading up) and Buffalo got in the way. Can't always expect your guys to fall to you, I'm just happy that it worked out in round 1 and didn't in rounds 4 and 5 and not the other way around

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, PureLuck said:

From Irsay's comments on being sniped in rounds 4 and 5, I believe they really liked Tommy Doyle, but didn't want to trade up (very few picks even without trading up) and Buffalo got in the way. Can't always expect your guys to fall to you, I'm just happy that it worked out in round 1 and didn't in rounds 4 and 5 and not the other way around

Like Ballard said night one sometimes the draft falls for you.  Then other times it doesn’t.  If they really like Doyle and it didn’t fall for them it happens.  You can’t always go get guys either because sooner or later you are going to have to pay the price of the picks it costs to go get them.

[DownHillRunner]

33 minutes ago, JoeThornburg said:

He has not signed with anyone. He did visit the Ravens facility though. I don't think anyone is going to give him 16-17M a year after the year Pittsburgh had in 2020, which is probably what he's holding out for, or at least closer to that ceiling than what most teams are willing to offer.

 

 

You have to be kidding me. That’s ludicrous money for a 32 year old Tackle. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, DownHillRunner said:

 

 

You have to be kidding me. That’s ludicrous money for a 32 year old Tackle. 

[Four2itus]

Play the best 5 on the roster. 

[Dr. T]

Didn't Holden fill in for Castonzo and do well? What's wrong with Holden?

[ColtV]

Russell Okung? No idea what his health status is. 

[dw49]

43 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Like Ballard said night one sometimes the draft falls for you.  Then other times it doesn’t.  If they really like Doyle and it didn’t fall for them it happens.  You can’t always go get guys either because sooner or later you are going to have to pay the price of the picks it costs to go get them.

 

 

If they really liked Doyle , it seems to me they could have "easily" drafted him . Question is how much did they really like him ? IMO , it couldn't have been all that much or maybe they just aren't that worried about the LT position ? 

Lets look at this. Irsay said they had LT guys in the 4th and 5th rounds and teams moved up and took their players. In round 4 , that player had to be Hudson who Cleveland traded up to spot 110 to draft. We were sitting at pick 127. So that's a long way to move up considering what draft capital we had. But if they really liked him , probably worth doing ? So now we the Colts come up at 127. If they really liked Doyle , they could draft him here or trade back  10-12 spots and pick up an early 6th. I'm thinking they likes the TE a whole lot better than Doyle and just took him with that pick. So now we have what appears to probably be the last LT they like . The cost for moving up say... 8-9 spots in the latter part of round 5 is pretty cheap and they didn't do it ?

What I gather from all this is Ballard REALLY , REALLY sticks to his board and he was not all that enamored with either of those 2 players.

[lollygagger8]

Well, I hope Ballard goes Fish'ing then 

[GoColts8818]

21 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

 

If they really liked Doyle , it seems to me they could have "easily" drafted him . Question is how much did they really like him ? IMO , it couldn't have been all that much or maybe they just aren't that worried about the LT position ? 

Lets look at this. Irsay said they had LT guys in the 4th and 5th rounds and teams moved up and took their players. In round 4 , that player had to be Hudson who Cleveland traded up to spot 110 to draft. We were sitting at pick 127. So that's a long way to move up considering what draft capital we had. But if they really liked him , probably worth doing ? So now we the Colts come up at 127. If they really liked Doyle , they could draft him here or trade back  10-12 spots and pick up an early 6th. I'm thinking they likes the TE a whole lot better than Doyle and just took him with that pick. So now we have what appears to probably be the last LT they like . The cost for moving up say... 8-9 spots in the latter part of round 5 is pretty cheap and they didn't do it ?

What I gather from all this is Ballard REALLY , REALLY sticks to his board and he was not all that enamored with either of those 2 players.

That’s kinda what I was trying to say when I said you can’t always trade up.  
 

I agree Ballard sticks to his board.  I heard a story about Bill Polian today and the Reggie Wayne draft when the Colts pick came up the scouts were trying to argue the Colts didn’t need a WR because they had Marvin and after some back and fourth Bill Polian stood up and said whose at the top of the board we’ve spent months building?  The scouts answered Reggie Wayne and Polian went then we are taking Reggie freaking Wayne turn the card in.  
 

I think Ballard uses the same philosophy.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, GoColts8818 said:

That’s kinda what I was trying to say when I said you can’t always trade up.  
 

I agree Ballard sticks to his board.  I heard a story about Bill Polian today and the Reggie Wayne draft when the Colts pick came up the scouts were trying to argue the Colts didn’t need a WR because they had Marvin and after some back and fourth Bill Polian stood up and said whose at the top of the board we’ve spend months building?  The scouts answered Reggie Wayne and Polian went then we are taking Reggie freaking Wayne turn the card in.  
 

I think Ballard uses the same philosophy.

Like Ballard said you don’t pass on a unique talent because you need another position. I like the philosophy. 

[jvan1973]

The LT is on the roster.    I'm not sure who it is,  but he is there

[GoColts8818]

5 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

The LT is on the roster.    I'm not sure who it is,  but he is there

I don’t think the Colts are either.  That’s what’s training camp is for.

[JoeThornburg]

3 hours ago, DownHillRunner said:

 

 

You have to be kidding me. That’s ludicrous money for a 32 year old Tackle. 

OK well first of all, the floor on the market for a quality starting LT has gone up significantly in the past 10 years. The entire premise of a LT getting that kind of money can be illustrated and framed by the first round of this year's 1st round of the Draft. How many picks did SF give up to roll the dice on a QB? That's more than just blindside protection. It's an insurance policy. This is how teams do things now, which I patently disagree with, but that is the way of things.

 

You also need to look at this for what it is. He has fewer miles on his body in the NFL than most linemen his age. Also, offensive linemen age much better than their defensive nemesis, unless you are talking about 3 tech or zero nose. It is in fact a skill position regardless of what anyone else says. He's right at that age where he's got one good contract left in him, even if he switches over to Guard or RT. This would be his 7th NFL season. He's only two years removed from back to back Pro-Bowl selections.

 

I don't see him getting that kind of money but for a Pro-Bowl caliber Tackle you are going to cough up a bag. He is an outlier in this whole thing because his agent is shopping that and I believe he is still extremely capable. The thing that killed his market this year was how the Steelers broke down like a piece of crap Subaru in the home stretch. What really gets me here is most of that had to do with the interior of the offensive line. The guy had absolutely no hope on the left side this year. The guard play was a dumpster fire and they passed the ball 2:1 against the run. AND every time they ran the ball it was to the right side of the line because the guard play on the left side and the center were just toast. Not to mention the RB corps was god awful with a spell HB and a fullback trying to carry the load.

 

I mean how long do you expect these guys to hold their blocks? Can someone in the backfield do SOMETHING at the 2nd level? You have to look at the whole picture here. I would resign the guy in a heartbeat.

[cdgacoltsfan]

I doubt a 30 year old left tackle with an Achilles injury was Ballard plan all along. He had. more than enough $ to address in free agency and he didn't. He had many opportunities in the draft and he didn't. This one's on Ballard. 

[ClaytonColt]

I'm starting to think we're just going to roll with what we have. Can't see them signing any of the remaining free agents given the question marks that surround them all.

 

Having to sacrifice a bit of talent at left tackle is probably a repercussion of having 2 players at "secondary" positions that are worth top end money and another relatively high pick who has performed excellently. 

 

Suppose we can't have a line where 4 of the members are high picks and expensive. Just unfortunate that it's the most crucial position that is possibly going to be weakened.

[Hoose]

First, a message to the moderators: please don’t stuff this in with the other discussions that pre date the draft. Things have changed and I’d like to hear from our best and brightest on this topic. It’s issue number one for the Colts going forward IMO. 
 

The dust has settled from the draft and, to me, the unthinkable has happened: in perhaps the most historically deep and talented OT class in memory, the Colts, a team badly in need of talent at the LT position, drafted not a single player to fill that need. And no, the guy they picked in the middle of the 7th round will not be their LT. He may be a solid swing O lineman in time, but he’s not the future protector of Wentz. The draft was cruel to the Colts; key opportunities were repeatedly snatched away just before they picked on Day 2 and 3. I liked the pick of Paye, and find no fault with it, but the fallout is what it is. 
 

So, regardless of the reasoning by Ballard and crew, the situation at LT has, IMO, gone from bad to worse. We are now hearing, more and more, that Sam Tevi, the lowest rated starting LT per PFF last season, is the likely heir to the job. I’m sorry, I love my Colts and admire Ballard, but I cannot believe this is the answer. If not, what is?

 

Option 1: Snag one of the remaining FA’s  remaining. The choices that make sense: Villanueva, who is, however, rumored headed to Pitt.; Fisher, who is recovering from a January Achilles injury; or Okung, who is aging rapidly. Villanueva would make the most sense here since he’d be a solid two year answer. Fisher would be my second choice, but the Colts could come up goose eggs again if neither wants to take significantly less $. 
 

Option 2: Move Smith or Q to Left Tackle. Regardless of what they are saying now, you play your best 5 linemen. Period. If they can fill in at either LG with Pinter, for example, or Holden at RT, why in the world would you not do that if it gives you the best O line? Of course you would. 
 

Option 3: I don’t see another option. 
 

Clearly, Ballard knows this is a problem. I hope he moves quickly and decisively and grabs one of the vet free agents. But maybe I’m missing something. If there’s a good Option 3, I’d love to hear it. 
 

 

[#12.]

I just posted this in another thread.  The more Tevi film I watch  I would have to agree.  I'm warning up to the moving Nelson option.  

 

The best option might be to move Nelson temporarily and play Pinter until Fisher is ready.

[DoubleE Colt]

I'm not nitpicking just a genuine question....was this really a historically deep and talented OT draft class? From what I saw there may have been a fair few but they seemed to average out talent wise fairly quickly after the first handful or so.....and LT in particular didn't seem to be that deep

[DougDew]

Guys.  Will Holden.  Read his draft profile.  Experienced starter in college at RT and some LT.  Sounds a lot like Eich and Jenkins. JMO.

[KB]

Once WFT took Sami, we should of jumped in front of the titans. Kind of foolish to let them take the last decent tackle from under our noses. Maybe CB tried and nobody bit. Maybe not. Who knows.

[jbaron04]

4 guys that’s good at they position 3 our top guys at their position we can survive with one question mark and slide help that way and he is playing next to the beat LG in football which will help a lot , he is not the future at LT but he he can play winning football for us and don’t forget we can’t have all pros at every position every year , 

[jbaron04]

I am absolutely against moving Big Q to LT you don’t want to mess with the chemistry that them 4 guys have playing together and you don’t move a player that is the best his position. Do I think he can do it yes but I rather have 1 question mark than 3 how is Q gonna hold up over a season at LT how is the new LG gonna play and how is Kelly gonna mess with the new guard ..... most NFL teams can scheme for outside tackle pressure it is interior pressure that causes all the major headaches 

[luv_pony_express]

23 minutes ago, #12. said:

I just posted this in another thread.  The more Tevi film I watch  I would have to agree.  I'm warning up to the moving Nelson option.  

 

The best option might be to move Nelson temporarily and play Pinter until Fisher is ready.

It might be.  But it’s a black eye for Ballard that we’re in that predicament.

 

It seems obvious he hates the idea of trading up - and hates even more the idea of drafting a position just to draft a position.  And he apparently wasn’t in love with any of the OTs that were in our reach.

 

I get all that.  But you can’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.  When ardent anti-communist Winston Churchill was charged with hypocrisy for partnering up with Stalin in WW2, he famously quipped that, when it came to the safety of Britain his “conscience became a good girl.”

 

I think this draft presented a situation where Ballard needed some more flexibility.  Having rules and principles is good - but being rigid or impractical about them can be counter-productive.

 

We’ll see how it pans out.  There’s still plenty of time left in the off-season.  And Ballard has earned the benefit of the doubt.

[holeymoley99]

I'm wondering how Chris Reed hasnt been mentioned yet when moving Q to LT ? Reed started the final 14 games last season for Carolina, his PFF grade was much higher then either Tevi or Holden and Davenport barely played...none of those 3 are realistic options.  Add in the fact Reed's contract is higher then Tevi's, Holden or Davenport and the writing seems to be on the wall. No knock vs Pinter, like him and think he can develop BUT Reed is already there........

[krunk]

Its not even close to time to panic. Season doesnt start until Sep. Window is large enough to make trades and pick up people cut after the draft. When they speak of Tevi they usually say weve got Tevi but then qualify that by saying they are open to other moves that work as well. I think its an ongoing process. Obviously if they were satisfied with Tevi they wouldnt have gone into the draft looking for a LT. If they can bring in somebody as good as Veldheer i think that would work. Heck who knows Veldheer himself could be let go again.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

54 minutes ago, KB said:

Once WFT took Sami, we should of jumped in front of the titans. Kind of foolish to let them take the last decent tackle from under our noses. Maybe CB tried and nobody bit. Maybe not. Who knows.

Or maybe they didn’t like him enough to use draft picks. At that.point you have to look who is on your roster and are they better thrn the player that late in the draft.

 

Wentz isn’t a statue. If it comes down to tevi we will be fine. Let’s not forget how good the rest of the line is. Tevi played with a all around bad line in LA with a statue of a QB.

 

I do think we will bring in a guy like fisher if he looks to be ready by august.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

6 minutes ago, holeymoley99 said:

I'm wondering how Chris Reed hasnt been mentioned yet when moving Q to LT ? Reed started the final 14 games last season for Carolina, his PFF grade was much higher then either Tevi or Holden and Davenport barely played...none of those 3 are realistic options.  Add in the fact Reed's contract is higher then Tevi's, Holden or Davenport and the writing seems to be on the wall. No knock vs Pinter, like him and think he can develop BUT Reed is already there........

I think the reason we signed this guy was in case we did have to move Nelson. I don’t think we will move Nelson unless it’s Absolutly necessary.

[holeymoley99]

Just now, Wentzszn said:

I think the reason we signed this guy was in case we did have to move Nelson. I don’t think we will move Nelson unless it’s Absolutly necessary.

I think the reason was in case we didnt get a LT in the draft we wanted so hedged our bet, now we didnt get the LT we want so....

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

27 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:

It might be.  But it’s a black eye for Ballard that we’re in that predicament.

 

It seems obvious he hates the idea of trading up - and hates even more the idea of drafting a position just to draft a position.  And he apparently wasn’t in love with any of the OTs that were in our reach.

 

I get all that.  But you can’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.  When ardent anti-communist Winston Churchill was charged with hypocrisy for partnering up with Stalin in WW2, he famously quipped that, when it came to the safety of Britain his “conscience became a good girl.”

 

I think this draft presented a situation where Ballard needed some more flexibility.  Having rules and principles is good - but being rigid or impractical about them can be counter-productive.

 

We’ll see how it pans out.  There’s still plenty of time left in the off-season.  And Ballard has earned the benefit of the doubt.

So you draft a tackle your not in love with and might not work and you pass on a stud DE. This is why GM fail. You end up not fixing anything when you do that.

 

Just a note Veldeheer might be able to be coaxed out of retirement if he is guaranteed the starting job. 

[holeymoley99]

I loved Veldeheer, in fact made the thread last year when we signed him that we signed him to be the starting within 2 weeks LT and some even said bad thread he was signed for depth only UNTIL he started 4 days later. He is a Pro's pro BUT....not sure he wants to play 17 games plus playoffs.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Also who knows Tevi is still young. He might prove he can do it if he gets the chance and earn himself a nice pay day.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, holeymoley99 said:

I loved Veldeheer, in fact made the thread last year when we signed him that we signed him to be the starting within 2 weeks LT and some even said bad thread he was signed for depth only UNTIL he started 4 days later. He is a Pro's pro BUT....not sure he wants to play 17 games plus playoffs.

Maybe if he was guaranteed to start he would play. He clearly still has the itch to play. Taylor ran for 250 yards with him at LT. The Buffalo playoff game he played well too. There are still options out there. Nobody should be panicking.

[coming on strong]

13 minutes ago, holeymoley99 said:

I'm wondering how Chris Reed hasnt been mentioned yet when moving Q to LT ? Reed started the final 14 games last season for Carolina, his PFF grade was much higher then either Tevi or Holden and Davenport barely played...none of those 3 are realistic options.  Add in the fact Reed's contract is higher then Tevi's, Holden or Davenport and the writing seems to be on the wall. No knock vs Pinter, like him and think he can develop BUT Reed is already there........

Q is the best guard in the league he makes our run game special by being able to pull and get the the next level . you move him to LT our running game hurts bad .   chris reed is like having two glowoski's at guard and glow is the worst of the starting 5 last year and being propped up by kelly and smith .   WE need a real answer Q would not be a elite tackle right off the bat and is not used to the space involved he is a mauler . Bad move to touch Q

[holeymoley99]

Not sure which LT's ballard really wanted, we can assume it was NOT Darrisaw as he could have nabbed him and knew he would slide to second so had to be someone he felt would be there... I'm thinking it was Radunz though could have been Little or Cosmi or perhaps 2 or all 3

[Smonroe]

I know this is foolish, unreasonable, and controversial, but I’m willing to trust Ballard and the coaching staff on this.  
 

I’ll concede that they may know a tiny bit more about the whole situation than I do.  

[coming on strong]

5 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

Also who knows Tevi is still young. He might prove he can do it if he gets the chance and earn himself a nice pay day.

It seems risky  to bet on a project at left tackle o\in a year when we are trying to fix wentz .

[holeymoley99]

Just now, coming on strong said:

Q is the best guard in the league he makes our run game special by being able to pull and get the the next level . you move him to LT our running game hurts bad .   chris reed is like having two glowoski's at guard and glow is the worst of the starting 5 last year and being propped up by kelly and smith .   WE need a real answer Q would not be a elite tackle right off the bat and is not used to the space involved he is a mauler . Bad move to touch Q

Reed is head and shoulders above Tevi though, Ill take two Glowinskis over a Glow and a Tevi.  I think Q would be elite right away, if he was playing position for first time like a Braden Smith move would look like no BUT remember Q played LT his entire life and was All American in high school and recruiter to N dame as a Left tackle