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Left Tackle(Leno,Fisher,Okung?)/Sam Tevi at LT (MERGE)


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20 minutes ago, Caffrey said:

The year of the Achilles with Mack, Dayo, and possibly Fisher.  If it works out, we will be the standard for which players with Achilles injures will use a a reference point about coming back from this type of injury.

 

On Fisher, I did not realize he was the #1 pick in the draft in 2013.  I knew he was a 1st round pick but thought he was a mid 1st round pick.

 

If we sign him. Have Tevi start the first month or so, and if Fisher comes back close to form. It will be a O-line I'd pay money to watch, which I'm doing already.  A healthy Fisher, next to Nelson and Kelly, WOW!, with Glow and Smith of right, I can fantasize.

 

I don't see why Fisher would not want to sign with the Colts. Obviously, the Colts Orthopedic Specialist with evaluate his closely.  If good to go, hopefully the Colts and Fisher can find a fair contract.

It might be longer than the first month or so it’s not unrealistic that Fisher won’t be ready until mid-season.  
 

If the Colts are looking for “long” term solution as in more than this season I’d sigh Fisher.  If they want a one year stop gap guy I’d sign the guy the Bears released but this all isn’t up to me clearly.

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NFL.com has reported that Eric Fisher is visiting the Colts. We may have found our Missing piece. It makes sense that they waited until after the draft, to see how the cards fell before bringing him in for a visit. 
 

Also FYI Malik Hooker is on a visit to the Dolphins. 

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Gonna start calling Ballard “The Count” because he never sleeps.

 

Or “7-11” cuz he’s 24/7 and never “closes” the “store”

 

He’s gonna find someone or some combination that works until a long-term solution presents itself.  

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5 minutes ago, superrep1967 said:

What salary cap money do we have does anyone know?

 

Over the Cap says we have roughly $22.4 Mill.    About the 5th most.

 

Spotrac says we have roughly $25.0 Mill.     Again, about 5th.

 

We should be good to do a solid deal and have enough for the rest of our needs.   

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Just now, NewColtsFan said:

 

Over the Cap says we have roughly $22.4 Mill.    About the 5th most.

 

Spotrac says we have roughly $25.0 Mill.     Again, about 5th.

 

We should be good to do a solid deal and have enough for the rest of our needs.   

Thanks for the info do you think we should Fisher or Leno?

Just now, superrep1967 said:

Thanks for the info do you think we should Fisher or Leno?

I meant to say should we sign Fisher or Leno?

 

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1 hour ago, superrep1967 said:

Thanks for the info do you think we should Fisher or Leno?

I meant to say should we sign Fisher or Leno?

 

My preference is Fisher.   He was the better player before his injury.   I guess I’ll leave it up to the team doctors.   If they’re confident about Fisher — then sign him.

 

But if not, I think Leno is a perfectly acceptable backup plan.  Solid guy to be our LT. 

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11 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

My preference is Fisher.   He was the better player before his injury.   I guess I’ll leave it up to the team doctors.   If they’re confident about Fisher — then sign him.

 

But if not, I think Leno is a perfectly acceptable backup plan.  Solid guy to be our LT. 

I totally agree with your assessment.  

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1 hour ago, AwesomeAustin said:

I wonder how many people wanting Fisher said we wasted our 2nd round pick. Same injury right?  I’m good with signing him or Leno.  Whatever the team decides typically works out. 

Same injury, happened on the same day also.

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9 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

That’s not exactly the full story....

 

2017 was said back then in real time to be the worst OL draft class anyone could remember. The pickings were...   slim. 

 

As it is, we drafted Banner in the 4th round and he’s one of the few OL who are still around.   
 

We were also coming off a draft (2016) where we spent our 1, 3, 5 and 7 round picks on OL. 


I think we also signed a FA OL, but I’d have to double check that.  
 

We were rebuilding an entire roster, there were only so many bullets to fire that first year...  

 

The only OL player they signed was a cheap deal on Schwenke...but he was cut at the end of TC.

 

At the time, Ballard had said he was pretty high on the OL group from the 2016 NFL draft. He wanted to see what they could do.

 

And with Luck just having shoulder surgery and being a big question mark and the coaching staff likely due for a change after the season, I don’t think the urgency was there for investing heavily (like it was the following season when Reich was hired and Luck would make his comeback). 
 

Unfortunately, a second-year JB didn’t have much of a chance behind that OL and in that system in 2017. He got hit and sacked a lot.

 

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2 hours ago, AwesomeAustin said:

I wonder how many people wanting Fisher said we wasted our 2nd round pick. Same injury right?  I’m good with signing him or Leno.  Whatever the team decides typically works out. 


Similar injuries, but different situations. Not saying I am all about Fisher...just that they really aren’t the same thing.

 

With Fisher, they are likely only betting on him to be a short-term solution...and looking to squeeze out what football he has left. Sort of like Peters in PHI (though Peters is a much better player than Fisher in his career).

 

Fisher is an established vet and not dependent upon top-notch athleticism. So they have some type of baseline of performance. They likely won’t get pre-injury performance out of Fisher...but maybe they can live with 80% of Fisher for a bit. 

With Dayo, they are not only banking on a return to health (which is tricky with Achilles injuries), but also a return to the pre-injury athleticism/upside that justified him as a top 60 player (which is a dubious proposition for athletes returning from Achilles injuries). And then if Dayo manages to get that athleticism back, the Colts are banking on his development as well. A lot really has to go right for Dayo. And the opportunity cost of a 2nd round pick (in a draft where you only have one Day 2 pick) is much higher a bit of cap space you use to sign a vet OT.

 

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I'm not sure why we are even looking at Fischer at this point. Leno is a solid LT who unexpectedly become available. He has no injury issues, is younger, was released because of cap space not a failure to perform and has history with our coaching staff. There is no reason to believe Fischer will return to his pre injury level of play and some doubt he'll be ready for the start of the season. Again, as with Dayo, we're hearing a lot of 'Ifs' about Fischer. Let's just take Leno, sign him to a 3-4 year contract and move on. The guy had a PFF rating of 80+ over the last half or so of last season if I read it right. Better than AC. How many Achilles' do we want to wait on rehabbing this year? This seems like a no brainer. It would give us solid, if not pro bowl, level play for a few years while we look for a long term solution.  

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45 minutes ago, FRW said:

I'm not sure why we are even looking at Fischer at this point. Leno is a solid LT who unexpectedly become available. He has no injury issues, is younger, was released because of cap space not a failure to perform and has history with our coaching staff. There is no reason to believe Fischer will return to his pre injury level of play and some doubt he'll be ready for the start of the season. Again, as with Dayo, we're hearing a lot of 'Ifs' about Fischer. Let's just take Leno, sign him to a 3-4 year contract and move on. The guy had a PFF rating of 80+ over the last half or so of last season if I read it right. Better than AC. How many Achilles' do we want to wait on rehabbing this year? This seems like a no brainer. It would give us solid, if not pro bowl, level play for a few years while we look for a long term solution.  

If I had to bet, they're bringing Fisher in to get an idea of where he is in the rehab process and how it's going. They're also bringing him in to show that Leno isn't the only option on the table for us, which helps with contract leverage with Leno. I'm leaning towards Leno as well, because you at least know what you're getting in him. Fisher may give you a higher level of play, but could also regress due to the injury. 

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1 hour ago, FRW said:

I'm not sure why we are even looking at Fischer at this point. Leno is a solid LT who unexpectedly become available. He has no injury issues, is younger, was released because of cap space not a failure to perform and has history with our coaching staff. There is no reason to believe Fischer will return to his pre injury level of play and some doubt he'll be ready for the start of the season. Again, as with Dayo, we're hearing a lot of 'Ifs' about Fischer. Let's just take Leno, sign him to a 3-4 year contract and move on. The guy had a PFF rating of 80+ over the last half or so of last season if I read it right. Better than AC. How many Achilles' do we want to wait on rehabbing this year? This seems like a no brainer. It would give us solid, if not pro bowl, level play for a few years while we look for a long term solution.  

Sign both

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Broncos will bring in free agent tackles for visits

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/05/05/broncos-will-bring-in-free-agent-tackles-for-visits/

 

Quote

...No names were mentioned, but Demar Dotson started eight games for the Broncos after James opted out last season and remains a free agent. Charles Leno, Dennis Kelly, Bobby Massie, Mitchell Schwartz, Eric Fisher, and Cameron Fleming are other experienced tackles currently on the open market...

 

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10 minutes ago, 1959Colts said:

FWIW Leno and Fisher are left tackles.  Everyone else mentioned as possibles are right tackles.  James is a right tackle.  I would assume Leno and Fisher would want to find a team looking for a left tackle.  They are accomplished and the position pays more.

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2 hours ago, FRW said:

I'm not sure why we are even looking at Fischer at this point. Leno is a solid LT who unexpectedly become available. He has no injury issues, is younger, was released because of cap space not a failure to perform and has history with our coaching staff. There is no reason to believe Fischer will return to his pre injury level of play and some doubt he'll be ready for the start of the season. Again, as with Dayo, we're hearing a lot of 'Ifs' about Fischer. Let's just take Leno, sign him to a 3-4 year contract and move on. The guy had a PFF rating of 80+ over the last half or so of last season if I read it right. Better than AC. How many Achilles' do we want to wait on rehabbing this year? This seems like a no brainer. It would give us solid, if not pro bowl, level play for a few years while we look for a long term solution.  

 

I don't care about his PFF grade, but I agree that I'd rather pursue Leno than Fisher, primarily due to the injury. I find it hard to believe that Fisher will play at all in 2021.

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2 hours ago, FRW said:

I'm not sure why we are even looking at Fischer at this point. Leno is a solid LT who unexpectedly become available. He has no injury issues, is younger, was released because of cap space not a failure to perform and has history with our coaching staff. There is no reason to believe Fischer will return to his pre injury level of play and some doubt he'll be ready for the start of the season. Again, as with Dayo, we're hearing a lot of 'Ifs' about Fischer. Let's just take Leno, sign him to a 3-4 year contract and move on. The guy had a PFF rating of 80+ over the last half or so of last season if I read it right. Better than AC. How many Achilles' do we want to wait on rehabbing this year? This seems like a no brainer. It would give us solid, if not pro bowl, level play for a few years while we look for a long term solution.  

I think we are looking at Fisher because he was the primary target if we did not find a replacement during the draft.   Ballard might have told him that but they wanted to first see how the draft unfolded and it would give both parties a chance to see how the rehab progressed.  Now they are ready to move forward.  The Leno release came out of nowhere and happened to coincide with the Fisher visit. Leno ,no doubt, has moved into the mix and is now most likely the backup plan if Fisher's medicals go south. I think Fisher remains the primary target and will get signed if he get's through the medicals.  I'm guessing the numbers have already been worked out and the visit is the only thing holding up the signing.  

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10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Without looking...   does the season by season cash in his pocket his salary only?

 

Does it include his signing bonus or roster bonus or any other bonuses?   Just asking. 

Basically it includes any payouts given for that given year.

 

So basically it would not include signing bonus $ since that money is paid upfront and then just pro-rated for cap purposes over the length of the deal.

 

It would include roster bonuses or workout bonuses that are specific to that given year. And of course his annual salary.

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Holder said on the morning show Leno wants to come here and the colts can have him if they want him. Then he just tweeted this. So it sounds like it’s going to come down to fishers physical.

 

 

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Gahhh! Lol. Feels like a game of musical chairs. Tons of anxiety hoping that you get a seat until, then the music stops and someone shoves you out the way. Fingers crossed we are doing the shoving haha

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15 hours ago, #12. said:

 

Well, if you don't want to spend and you don't want to draft...   

 

Who needs a LT these days anyway.  For Ballard to preach trenches for 5 years and not seem to care much about the LT position, it's bizarre.

Not care much? You don’t know ballards plan. Obviously drafting two DL in the first two rounds he thought it would’ve been easier to find a replacement OT on a 1-2 year deal that’s viable than a DL. A solid DL player is dry out there and we just bolstered a DL in the draft. I’m happy with this. As long as Sam Tevi does not start the start in September than I’m backing Ballard, which it’s pretty obvious, Tevi won’t be starting in September. 

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Looks like the Broncos aren’t in a hurry to make a decision. They aren’t bringing in anyone until next week. The colts have time to work through the fisher medicals and decide which player they want.

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1 hour ago, TomDiggs said:

Basically it includes any payouts given for that given year.

 

So basically it would not include signing bonus $ since that money is paid upfront and then just pro-rated for cap purposes over the length of the deal.

 

It would include roster bonuses or workout bonuses that are specific to that given year. And of course his annual salary.

@TomDiggs, your posts are always on point. You need to chime in more often.

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On 5/3/2021 at 1:38 PM, Superman said:

 

If I understand the new rules correctly, the relevant date is the Monday after the draft. It's still called the post June 1 designation, but I don't think that's the date anymore...

 

I'm gonna do some research on that, could be wrong.

 

Edit: Just went to the CBA, and it's still June 1. I feel like I remember that being changed a couple years ago, but maybe it was a temporary change? Or maybe I'm confusing it with something else.

 

Either way, even if they released him now, they could still designate him a post June 1 release. They wouldn't get any cap relief yet, but he would be free to sign right away.

 

@Wentzszn @chad72 @csmopar @w87r

 

Just remembered what this is about. The June 1 rule and date are the same.

 

What changed is the date for the comp pick formula. I believe all FAs signed between the start of the league year and June 1 used to be included for comp picks. Now, the date is the first Monday after the draft. So any would-be qualifying FAs signed Monday or later don't count toward the comp pick formula.

 

https://overthecap.com/the-basics-and-methodology-of-projecting-the-nfls-compensatory-draft-picks/

 

I had my wires crossed, confusing these two elements. I think I'm straightened out now.

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So basically besides the obvious physical, it comes down to availability.

 

Are we okay with waiting it out for Fisher's recovery, whenever that will be? Or do we go with Leno who (barring unseen circumstances) can start day 1?

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9 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

So basically besides the obvious physical, it comes down to availability.

 

Are we okay with waiting it out for Fisher's recovery, whenever that will be? Or do we go with Leno who (barring unseen circumstances) can start day 1?

 

I believe the Colts are fine waiting on Fisher's recovery. I think they'd be okay with starting Te'vi, if they have to. If Te'vi has a terrible camp, that might change, but where we sit right now they probably have him penciled in at LT1. 

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28 minutes ago, csmopar said:

We have have funds, I’d sign them both

To be honest we may have to have 2 LTs brought in

 

1) Sign Fisher

2) Sign a LT that can play UNTIL Fisher is ready. Maybe thats Okung, Maybe thats Peters ....

     YES, the 39 year old LT that played ok last year, 15pts better than Tevi on PFF

 

The BIG Question to the capologists on the board

 

Can we afford this approach as well as sign Leonard?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

@Wentzszn @chad72 @csmopar @w87r

 

Just remembered what this is about. The June 1 rule and date are the same.

 

What changed is the date for the comp pick formula. I believe all FAs signed between the start of the league year and June 1 used to be included for comp picks. Now, the date is the first Monday after the draft. So any would-be qualifying FAs signed Monday or later don't count toward the comp pick formula.

 

https://overthecap.com/the-basics-and-methodology-of-projecting-the-nfls-compensatory-draft-picks/

 

I had my wires crossed, confusing these two elements. I think I'm straightened out now.

 

 

Do you know if the rule regarding comp picks for players signed after the draft works "both ways ?" Other words if Houston signs for 7-8 million , will the Colts receive a comp pick ? I would think yes ? Also if we spend say 10 mill on Fisher , that would leave probably 6-7 mill i cap money the Colts don't need for 2021. Not that much when you consider Irsay says extensions are coming soon for Leonard and Smith. Yeah .. you can set their salaries for the first extension year very low but that hasn't been the way the Colts have rolled on managing the cap. Rather than spend a lot of money on say a 3 year deal on Fisher , I would rather do a 2 year deal on Leno for hopefully around 14 mill with most of the guarantee this year. Gives you great flexibility going forward. Seems to me signing Fisher , it would need to be a longer deal that would be expensive for it to make sense. If they do that , I would consider not extending Smith as they should find it easier to replace the RT. You have in addition to extending the big 3 , Turay , Hines , Allie-Cox and Rhodes that have expiring contracts. All but Nelson come due at the end of this year. Maybe the cap goes up big next year or maybe Wentz bombs and Eason looks great and I end up full of beans or maybe there is no problem as I'm not a cap expert .

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