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A Final Thought About Paye......


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Its a Sunday afternoon, so I have a few minutes after church

 

As everyone knows Paye ran a 4.52 on his 40 yard dash on his Pro Day

 

He also ran a 4.57, which is amazing as well

 

Using the higher 4.57 40 time and comparing it to all DE prospects NOT PR OLBS)  the past few years from the combine I found some interesting things

 

In 2016 There were 39 DEs that ran in the combine, None beat the 4.57 Time

In 2017 There were 58 DEs that ran at the combine, None beat the 4.57 Time

In 2018 There were  48 DEs that ran at the combine. None beat the 4.57 time

In 2019 There was 37 DEs that ran at the combine, None beat the 4.57 time

In 2020 There were 24 DEs that ran a the combine, None beat the 4.57 time

 

In 2021There are 31 DEs that ran on their pro days..... TWO beat the 4.57 time (Both at Penn State)

 

So..... out of 229 total defensive end prospects, only TWO had a better 40 time,

 

He is in the top ONE %

 

The kid is freaky fast

 

Also

 

In this same time period, only 7 players met or exceeded his number of bench reps, out of 229 prospects

 

The kid has explosion, and is strong as an ox...... needs some work, but you cant teach speed

 

 

I think this kid has some amazing upside.......  I hope that we get him

 

LDE for the Colts for the next 10 years

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, MikeCurtis said:

Its a Sunday afternoon, so I have a few minutes after church

 

As everyone knows Paye ran a 4.52 on his 40 yard dash on his Pro Day

 

He also ran a 4.57, which is amazing as well

 

Using the higher 4.57 40 time and comparing it to all DE prospects NOT PR OLBS)  the past few years from the combine I found some interesting things

 

In 2016 There were 39 DEs that ran in the combine, None beat the 4.57 Time

In 2017 There were 58 DEs that ran at the combine, None beat the 4.57 Time

In 2018 There were  48 DEs that ran at the combine. None beat the 4.57 time

In 2019 There was 37 DEs that ran at the combine, None beat the 4.57 time

In 2020 There were 24 DEs that ran a the combine, None beat the 4.57 time

 

In 2021There are 31 DEs that ran on their pro days..... TWO beat the 4.57 time (Both at Penn State)

 

So..... out of 229 total defensive end prospects, only TWO had a better 40 time,

 

He is in the top ONE %

 

The kid is freaky fast

 

Also

 

In this same time period, only 7 players met or exceeded his number of bench reps, out of 229 prospects

 

The kid has explosion, and is strong as an ox...... needs some work, but you cant teach speed

 

 

I think this kid has some amazing upside.......  I hope that we get him

 

LDE for the Colts for the next 10 years

 

 

 

Here’s the thing about the Pro Day times vs. the Combine times. 
 

At the Combine, they use Olympic style timing.   That involves computers and film.  It’s precise to 4 or 5 digits.   10ths, hundredths, thousandths, etc. 

 

Pro Day timing is good old fashioned hand timing with a stop watch.  And even a computerized hand stop watch, (which I have here somewhere in my house)is not as accurate as Olympic style.  Not close.   Odds are scouts and personnel people are likely rounding up roughly .03 to .07 on most every Pro Day time.  
 

It’s not a coincidence that players across the country are setting personal bests in their 40 time.   This was always going to be a casualty of Covid and the loss of the combine.   You can’t rely on these times as accurate or realistic. 
 

Im sorry you did so much good  homework and digging, but most of the data where you’re comparing any of the 2021 players to the other years....  it’s pretty worthless.   Sorry, not trying to be the bad guy here.  Just explaining the reality. 
 

That said...   your underlying point about Paye remains true.   He’s a tremendous athlete.  He tested very well, and one would think Ballard would be interested in him. 

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45 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Its a Sunday afternoon, so I have a few minutes after church

 

As everyone knows Paye ran a 4.52 on his 40 yard dash on his Pro Day

 

He also ran a 4.57, which is amazing as well

 

Using the higher 4.57 40 time and comparing it to all DE prospects NOT PR OLBS)  the past few years from the combine I found some interesting things

 

In 2016 There were 39 DEs that ran in the combine, None beat the 4.57 Time

In 2017 There were 58 DEs that ran at the combine, None beat the 4.57 Time

In 2018 There were  48 DEs that ran at the combine. None beat the 4.57 time

In 2019 There was 37 DEs that ran at the combine, None beat the 4.57 time

In 2020 There were 24 DEs that ran a the combine, None beat the 4.57 time

 

In 2021There are 31 DEs that ran on their pro days..... TWO beat the 4.57 time (Both at Penn State)

 

So..... out of 229 total defensive end prospects, only TWO had a better 40 time,

 

He is in the top ONE %

 

The kid is freaky fast

 

Also

 

In this same time period, only 7 players met or exceeded his number of bench reps, out of 229 prospects

 

The kid has explosion, and is strong as an ox...... needs some work, but you cant teach speed

 

 

I think this kid has some amazing upside.......  I hope that we get him

 

LDE for the Colts for the next 10 years

 

 

 

Paye is in the top 40 athletes in the world according to Sports Illustrated but his work ethic is among the best according to multiple sources. Kid will bust his butt and prove any doubters wrong.

 

id also recommended reading about him too and his story. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/nfl/draft2021/story/_/id/31310483/meet-nfl-draft-most-extraordinary-prospect-kwity-paye%3fplatform=amp

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I was questioning Paye at first but after reading about him, I really do believe that he has the right mindset and the right physical ability to be great. I would be stoked to have the opportunity to draft him

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23 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Paye is in the top 40 athletes in the world according to Sports Illustrated but his work ethic is among the best according to multiple sources. Kid will bust his butt and prove any doubters wrong.

 

id also recommended reading about him too and his story. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/nfl/draft2021/story/_/id/31310483/meet-nfl-draft-most-extraordinary-prospect-kwity-paye%3fplatform=amp

His family has a chilling story.

 

He seems like a very intelligent articulate kid that works hard.

 

He is also a team captain

 

 

Seems like a Ballard sort of guy

 

 

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1 hour ago, MikeCurtis said:

Its a Sunday afternoon, so I have a few minutes after church

 

As everyone knows Paye ran a 4.52 on his 40 yard dash on his Pro Day

 

He also ran a 4.57, which is amazing as well

 

Using the higher 4.57 40 time and comparing it to all DE prospects NOT PR OLBS)  the past few years from the combine I found some interesting things

 

In 2016 There were 39 DEs that ran in the combine, None beat the 4.57 Time

In 2017 There were 58 DEs that ran at the combine, None beat the 4.57 Time

In 2018 There were  48 DEs that ran at the combine. None beat the 4.57 time

In 2019 There was 37 DEs that ran at the combine, None beat the 4.57 time

In 2020 There were 24 DEs that ran a the combine, None beat the 4.57 time

 

In 2021There are 31 DEs that ran on their pro days..... TWO beat the 4.57 time (Both at Penn State)

 

So..... out of 229 total defensive end prospects, only TWO had a better 40 time,

 

He is in the top ONE %

 

The kid is freaky fast

 

Also

 

In this same time period, only 7 players met or exceeded his number of bench reps, out of 229 prospects

 

The kid has explosion, and is strong as an ox...... needs some work, but you cant teach speed

 

 

I think this kid has some amazing upside.......  I hope that we get him

 

LDE for the Colts for the next 10 years

 

 

 

U do realize that all these low 40's that players r  running r all hand timed? That could easily translate to a 4.7 if it were laser. Impressive but not epic in terms of numbers.

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I think Paye is one of the “ 5 or 6 difference maker’s “ Ballard was referring to in his press conference.  I would expect most GM’s have a similar grouping.  That’s why I’m not expecting Paye to drop into our laps at 21. 

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24 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

His family has a chilling story.

 

He seems like a very intelligent articulate kid that works hard.

 

He is also a team captain

 

 

Seems like a Ballard sort of guy

 

 

 

Thanks for this....    and I was going to add,  by ALL accounts,  Paye is a high quality kid.   A super-high quality Ballard-esque type of kid.    One of the best character kids you're ever going to find.   If he's there at 21..............

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1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

Here’s the thing about the Pro Day times vs. the Combine times. 
 

At the Combine, they use Olympic style timing.   That involves computers and film.  It’s precise to 4 or 5 digits.   10ths, hundredths, thousandths, etc. 

 

Pro Day timing is good old fashioned hand timing with a stop watch.  And even a computerized hand stop watch, (which I have here somewhere in my house)is not as accurate as Olympic style.  Not close.   Odds are scouts and personnel people are likely rounding up roughly .03 to .07 on most every Pro Day time.  
 

It’s not a coincidence that players across the country are setting personal bests in their 40 time.   This was always going to be a casualty of Covid and the loss of the combine.   You can’t rely on these times as accurate or realistic. 
 

Im sorry you did so much hood homework and digging, but most of the data where you’re comparing any of the 2021 players to the other years....  it’s pretty worthless.   Sorry, not trying to be the bad guy here.  Just explaining the reality. 
 

That said...   your underlying point about Paye remains true.   He’s a tremendous athlete.  He tested very well, and one would think Ballard would be interested in him. 

Thanks for the response, I see your point about the computer verses the stop watch,

 

As you are aware the human element may make it either slower or faster than the computer generated one.

It wouldnt always be worse.

 

But for arguments sake (I dont want to argue, but ony make a point)

 

Let me take it a step further, and make it more "fair:" vs a computer,  lets say that you added 0.08 to his recorded time of 4.52 40 That would increase his 40 to a 4.6 40

 

4.6 is top 2-3% for the DE prospects the past 8 years - Thats good...... REALLY good

 

Add that into the amazing strength and he is still a fantastic prospect (IMHO) 

 

If you look at some of the other Pro Days in comparison (The old fashioned stop watch way)

 

JJ Watt according to one article ran a 4.91 40 at his Pro Day - Im not saying he is JJ Watt

 

Myles Garret, according to one article ran a 4.64 40 at his Pro Day - Im not saying he is Myles G

 

J;Davius Smith Ran a 4.72 40 at his pro Day - I am not saying he is Smith

 

He is a great prospect that is someone that we should consider and one that seems to fit the Colts culture, very well

 

 

When I played football, I was so slow they measured my 40 with a calender.... no computer needed  :) 

 

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Thanks for this....    and I was going to add,  by ALL accounts,  Paye is a high quality kid.   A super-high quality Ballard-esque type of kid.    One of the best character kids you're ever going to find.   If he's there at 21..............

I think him coming in at less than 6.3 ft might make him slide

 

The 261 weight is also less than reported before

 

 

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1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Thanks for this....    and I was going to add,  by ALL accounts,  Paye is a high quality kid.   A super-high quality Ballard-esque type of kid.    One of the best character kids you're ever going to find.   If he's there at 21..............

I agree he looks like a stud. Do u think he fits the prototypical Ballard Dend??

 He seems to prefer the fast twitch bendy players flying around the end.

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1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

I think Paye is one of the “ 5 or 6 difference maker’s “ Ballard was referring to in his press conference.  I would expect most GM’s have a similar grouping.  That’s why I’m not expecting Paye to drop into our laps at 21. 

I hope Farley drops

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3 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I agree he looks like a stud. Do u think he fits the prototypical Ballard Dend??

 He seems to prefer the fast twitch bendy players flying around the end.

Oh he’s fast. Watch his tape, not just his highlights, but watch entire games. He has a wicked fast first step. His spin moves and other twitch type moves are very Dwight Freeny esq, though not as polished.  Since I started really hardcore following the draft and prospects 12 years ago, I’ve not ever been this excited about a prospect. 

I really think he’s gonna be solid if not very good in this league and will transform a DL even as a rookie. I really do. 
 

I could be wrong, but barring something stupid like drugs or injury, he should be an above average pass rusher in short order. 

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Just now, csmopar said:

Oh he’s fast. Watch his tape, not just his highlights, but watch entire games. He has a wicked fast first step. His spin moves and other twitch type moves are very Dwight Freeny esq, though not as polished.  Since I started really hardcore following the draft and prospects 12 years ago, I’ve not ever been this excited about a prospect. 

I really think he’s gonna be solid if not very good in this league and will transform a DL even as a rookie. I really do. 
 

I could be wrong, but barring something stupid like drugs or injury, he should be an above average pass rusher in short order. 

I doubt he is there at 21. To get a top projected player at 21, he would have to have some red flags. I am thinking injury or off the field stuff. I don't think Paye fits that profile.

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14 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I doubt he is there at 21. To get a top projected player at 21, he would have to have some red flags. I am thinking injury or off the field stuff. I don't think Paye fits that profile.

I don’t either. I think he’ll go anywhere from 8-15. But a lot depends on how teams view the two DEs most mocks have ranked above him, both of them had better stat lines and measurements. But they’re each 1 year starters and wonders. And the one stepped in when Phillips sat out due to Covid in 2020 and produced similar stats. 
 

Paye was a 4 year starter and while not as eye popping stats, he got better each year. Michigan only played 7 games and he did get hurt, pulled a groin, in the 4th of those, so he sat out 2 games and returned to play the final game. 
 

he’s all over the place, kipper ranks him as the 25th best prospect in the draft, and some mocks as recently as this week, have him anywhere from 11 to 24th. 

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24 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I doubt he is there at 21. To get a top projected player at 21, he would have to have some red flags. I am thinking injury or off the field stuff. I don't think Paye fits that profile.

We need to start a disinformation campaign......

 

I saw him kick a puppy once.......  Maybe he will slide to us  :)

 

I think that we already believe that Darrisaw will be gone...... (Probably to Chargers)

 

Thats why I really hope that Paye slides to us

 

He isnt a 3-4 DE, and his 6'2" and lack of sacks may scare off some folks

 

I can see Jenkins making it past Raiders or Chicago

 

So...... Paye is it.... or tradethe pick

 

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

We need to start a disinformation campaign......

 

I saw him kick a puppy once.......  Maybe he will slide to us  :)

 

I think that we already believe that Darrisaw will be gone...... (Probably to Chargers)

 

Thats why I really hope that Paye slides to us

 

He isnt a 3-4 DE, and his 6'2" and lack of sacks may scare off some folks

 

I can see Jenkins making it past Raiders or Chicago

 

So...... Paye is it.... or tradethe pick

 

 

 

 

Keegan-Michael Key Lol GIF by HULU

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43 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I agree he looks like a stud. Do u think he fits the prototypical Ballard Dend??

 He seems to prefer the fast twitch bendy players flying around the end.

I don’t think he’s the typical Ballard DE.   I think Ballard would like 6’5”plus and 255, with long arms 34”+ and super first step quickness...    

 

Two years ago, a kid like that named Brian Burns out of Florida State came out early, blew up the combine, went 15th to Carolina and I think he already has 17 sacks.  (9/8).    I think he’s the poster child.   Also Montez Sweat, is another who fits the description.  But he had the heart condition and we had to pass.   That’s what Ballard wants.

 

I think Jaelon Phillips,  the kid from Miami, is the closest to a Ballard profile this year.  But I’d guess he’s not on our board due to concussions.  
 

But the thing with Paye...   he has a number of plus traits, so if you can’t find exactly what you want, you have to find the closest to that, and Paye is such a good guy, and talented guy, that you can win with him.  Paye is a guy you want on your roster if you can get him. 

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4 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

Its a Sunday afternoon, so I have a few minutes after church

 

As everyone knows Paye ran a 4.52 on his 40 yard dash on his Pro Day

 

He also ran a 4.57, which is amazing as well

 

Using the higher 4.57 40 time and comparing it to all DE prospects NOT PR OLBS)  the past few years from the combine I found some interesting things

 

In 2016 There were 39 DEs that ran in the combine, None beat the 4.57 Time

In 2017 There were 58 DEs that ran at the combine, None beat the 4.57 Time

In 2018 There were  48 DEs that ran at the combine. None beat the 4.57 time

In 2019 There was 37 DEs that ran at the combine, None beat the 4.57 time

In 2020 There were 24 DEs that ran a the combine, None beat the 4.57 time

 

In 2021There are 31 DEs that ran on their pro days..... TWO beat the 4.57 time (Both at Penn State)

 

So..... out of 229 total defensive end prospects, only TWO had a better 40 time,

 

He is in the top ONE %

 

The kid is freaky fast

 

Also

 

In this same time period, only 7 players met or exceeded his number of bench reps, out of 229 prospects

 

The kid has explosion, and is strong as an ox...... needs some work, but you cant teach speed

 

 

I think this kid has some amazing upside.......  I hope that we get him

 

LDE for the Colts for the next 10 years

 

 

 

Paye's tested very well.  I would have loved to have an official 3 cone time, but his 3 cones in practice were ridiculous.

 

Montez Sweat ran a 4.41 at the combine at 260 lbs. 

Jaelan Phillips ran a 4.56 this year and has a higher RAS score than Paye.

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12 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

I think him coming in at less than 6.3 ft might make him slide

 

The 261 weight is also less than reported before

 

 

His height won’t matter much

 

Von Miller

Melvin Ingram

Trey Flowers

Khalil Mack

Frank Clark

Carl Lawson

Shaq Barrett

 

All under 6’3”. Heck Barrett is actually 6 ft and 3/4”. It’s the arm length that matters more.

 

 

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So if Ballard de-prioritizes LT and Wentz gets injured, is the forum going to blame Ballard like they did Grigson for not properly addressing the oline, or blame Wentz for holding the ball to long when Luck wasn't really criticized for it at the time? 

 

Not trying to revisit previous discussions, but just referencing them to better understand why prioritizing LT is not on the top of everybody's mind considering what has been said before.

 

Not getting a great edge isn't going to get your QB killed. 

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29 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

His height won’t matter much

 

Von Miller

Melvin Ingram

Trey Flowers

Khalil Mack

Frank Clark

Carl Lawson

Shaq Barrett

 

All under 6’3”. Heck Barrett is actually 6 ft and 3/4”. It’s the arm length that matters more.

 

 

I would agree 

 

Im just looking for a good reason that others might pass on him  :)

 

He is a difference maker that we have been seeking, and my first choice in this draft

 

I think it will be 25% chance that he is there at 21

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, DougDew said:

So if Ballard de-prioritizes LT and Wentz gets injured, is the forum going to blame Ballard like they did Grigson for not properly addressing the oline, or blame Wentz for holding the ball to long when Luck wasn't really criticized for it at the time? 

 

Not trying to revisit previous discussions, but just referencing them to better understand why prioritizing LT is not on the top of everybody's mind considering what has been said before.

 

Not getting a great edge isn't going to get your QB killed. 

If the draft goes where we dont go LT early, I think we will see Eric Fisher or Villinuava (SP?) brought in

 

If we go DE on round 1, then OT on second round there are a few decent options that should still be on the board then

 

Christensen and Spencer should both be on the board in round two

 

Let a FA man the spot until a rookie LT is ready to play

 

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21 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

If the draft goes where we dont go LT early, I think we will see Eric Fisher or Villinuava (SP?) brought in

 

If we go DE on round 1, then OT on second round there are a few decent options that should still be on the board then

 

Christensen and Spencer should both be on the board in round two

 

Let a FA man the spot until a rookie LT is ready to play

 

I'm concerned that the true LTs will be gone by 54, Including Spencer Brown.   I think DEs Payton Turner, Elerson Smith, and Chauncy Golston will all be available at 54, or later.  All would be upgrades from what we had last year...given a couple of years to develop. 

 

I like Paye, but now that he measured in at shorter than 6'3, he's not perfect either and I would hope we are not stuck on him at 21.

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I can see Villanueva. Fisher will likely be rehabbing for awhile. $ will be the issue there. I hope they go LT Day 2. There are likely going to be a few darn good choices still on the board in the 2nd round. DE is VERY thin. Pass on a genuine talent in the first round? Then you’re hoping/praying a Payton Turner drops into your lap in the 2nd. That’s a big gamble for a team as needy at the Edge as the Colts. 

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43 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I'm concerned that the true LTs will be gone by 54, Including Spencer Brown.   I think DEs Payton Turner, Elerson Smith, and Chauncy Golston will all be available at 54, or later.  All would be upgrades from what we had last year...given a couple of years to develop. 

 

I like Paye, but now that he measured in at shorter than 6'3, he's not perfect either and I would hope we are not stuck on him at 21.

Ultimately you may be right, and it ALL comes around to how CBs board is laying out

 

If we get an excellent DE prospect and a decent LT prospect, I am ok

 

The decent LT candidate may be Fisher or Vilinova, (Or Spencer or Christension)

 

 

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44 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I'm concerned that the true LTs will be gone by 54, Including Spencer Brown.   I think DEs Payton Turner, Elerson Smith, and Chauncy Golston will all be available at 54, or later.  All would be upgrades from what we had last year...given a couple of years to develop. 

 

I like Paye, but now that he measured in at shorter than 6'3, he's not perfect either and I would hope we are not stuck on him at 21.

And how tall were Mathis and Freeney?  Freeney actually said that being a bit shorter helped him more in the pros than in college because it allowed him to spin and get under Ts and Gs a bit easier because they were taller

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I like to reference Pat Kirwan's Explosion Number- bench press reps, plus their vertical jump in inches, plus their broad jump in feet. A total over 70 qualifies one as an explosive player.


Kwitty Paye-

 

36      bench reps
35.5    vertical
9.83    broad

 

He has an 81.3 explosion number, which is really good, as is anything over 70.  Justin James Watt scored 81.0 before the 2011 draft. JJ also ran a sub 6.89 second 3 cone, in which Paye DNP, unfortunately. But there is video of Paye doing it in 6.37 seconds!  That's a 1/2 second faster than JJ Watt!! {go to 1:16:09 in this video below! I time him at 6.44 :)}

 

 

JJ Watt had ran a 4.84 forty yard dash. So special speed is nice, but it (or lack of) didn't affect JJ's ability to wreck games/opponents.

 

I ask, are we just searching for pass rush DE, or do we have any 3 down DE's on the roster, say for when a team goes 22 personnel on us, IE: an opponent in a 4 minute offense to ice a game or drain the clock while running it down into FG range to win a game?

 

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50 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I'm concerned that the true LTs will be gone by 54, Including Spencer Brown.   I think DEs Payton Turner, Elerson Smith, and Chauncy Golston will all be available at 54, or later.  All would be upgrades from what we had last year...given a couple of years to develop. 

 

I like Paye, but now that he measured in at shorter than 6'3, he's not perfect either and I would hope we are not stuck on him at 21.

If he's there, I hope the Colts grab him.   I seriously doubt he will be there.   I think the Vikings will take them at 14.  

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11 minutes ago, csmopar said:

And how tall were Mathis and Freeney?  Freeney actually said that being a bit shorter helped him more in the pros than in college because it allowed him to spin and get under Ts and Gs a bit easier because they were taller

They were great in the era of the pocket passer.  Now, bending around the RT is simply going to open up a running lane for the QB to run right and throw...extend the play by running sideways.  I want to cut him off by having a guy that gets off blocks.

 

 Neither Mathis or Freeney were good against the run, and the fact that Paye appears to be good is encouraging.  It means he can handle and/or get off blocks made by the RT, which is what he would need to do to tackle an escaping QB.

 

That's whiy I don't want the real bendy light guys at LDE.  QBs escape to their right and throw on the move.  Of course they can go left too, but that takes a half second longer to make that move generally.

 

I'm simply saying that the less bendy, more stout DE is available below 21 where the great LT usually  isn't.

 

 

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55 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I'm concerned that the true LTs will be gone by 54, Including Spencer Brown.   I think DEs Payton Turner, Elerson Smith, and Chauncy Golston will all be available at 54, or later.  All would be upgrades from what we had last year...given a couple of years to develop. 

 

I like Paye, but now that he measured in at shorter than 6'3, he's not perfect either and I would hope we are not stuck on him at 21.

I think it will be the opposite. 

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14 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

I ask, are we just searching for pass rush DE, or do we have any 3 down DE's on the roster, say for when a team goes 22 personnel on us, IE: an opponent in a 4 minute offense to ice a game or drain the clock while running it down into FG range to win a game?

No we don't.  And that's what I want.  I think Basham and Turner fit that mold, and maybe even the two from PITT.  If Paye does, that's great, but that kind of language is what I'd want to hear and not so much about pure athletic traits that would turn into sack numbers.

 

Maybe we get the pass rusher and beef up Turay and move him over to LDE.  That could work.

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51 minutes ago, DougDew said:

They were great in the era of the pocket passer.  Now, bending around the RT is simply going to open up a running lane for the QB to run right and throw...extend the play by running sideways.  I want to cut him off by having a guy that gets off blocks.

 

 Neither Mathis or Freeney were good against the run, and the fact that Paye appears to be good is encouraging.  It means he can handle and/or get off blocks made by the RT, which is what he would need to do to tackle an escaping QB.

 

That's whiy I don't want the real bendy light guys at LDE.  QBs escape to their right and throw on the move.  Of course they can go left too, but that takes a half second longer to make that move generally.

 

I'm simply saying that the less bendy, more stout DE is available below 21 where the great LT usually  isn't.

 

 

I hate to disagree with a fellow Colts fan, Freeney was average at best, but Mathis was great against the run

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12 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I hate to disagree with a fellow Colts fan, Freeney was average at best, but Mathis was great against the run

Maybe, but his pass rush style (when not on PEDs) would take him out of the lane of the escaping QB.  I think we have to think about the role the LDE has now in this new era of running QBs that extend the play by running sideways to the right.

 

I don't know, maybe athleticism and quickness can chase the QB down once he escapes.  I'd rather have a stout guy sitting there and keep the QB in the pocket and make him go through his progressions.  Don't let Mahomes or Lamar or Allen escape and make backyard ball plays.

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2 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

I would agree 

 

Im just looking for a good reason that others might pass on him  :)

 

He is a difference maker that we have been seeking, and my first choice in this draft

 

I think it will be 25% chance that he is there at 21

 

 

 

If people pass it will be because the lack of production and the Rawness. The edge class is a mess this year. I think Phillips will be the first drafted but not untill Miami at 18 the earliest. Minnesota has a lot bigger needs than edge rushers. They’ve got a secondary that’s an absolute mess and work needed on the OL. Raiders just traded for Ngaukue and have Crosby. Chicago can’t afford to take them with their huge holes at CB and OL. Washington is fine at edge. 
 

There’s a very good chance he drops.

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27 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

If people pass it will be because the lack of production and the Rawness. The edge class is a mess this year. I think Phillips will be the first drafted but not untill Miami at 18 the earliest. Minnesota has a lot bigger needs than edge rushers. They’ve got a secondary that’s an absolute mess and work needed on the OL. Raiders just traded for Ngaukue and have Crosby. Chicago can’t afford to take them with their huge holes at CB and OL. Washington is fine at edge. 
 

There’s a very good chance he drops.

I hope that you are right

 

I have seen Miami linked to Philips as well

 

I have seen some mocks with Paye going to NY Giants, which seems early

 

 

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1 hour ago, MikeCurtis said:

I hate to disagree with a fellow Colts fan, Freeney was average at best, but Mathis was great against the run

Yeah, Mathis was good against the run for an edge rusher.    That is clear by the fact that he had 50+ tackles in several of his years.   Freeney Freeney never higher than 46 tackles and had under 30 most years.

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4 hours ago, Myles said:

If he's there, I hope the Colts grab him.   I seriously doubt he will be there.   I think the Vikings will take them at 14.  

I think Vikings take OG like AVT their guards are horrible apparently 

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